The New RS6 Details

[Misha]

Hi guys,

i've been readin through this forum for a long long time now. Its great how you almost woreship the RS6. Its my favourit car too, so i know how upbeat you are about the new RS6.
One of my best friends is an Audi testdriver. The RS series is one of our most discussed topic so ill let you know what he already got told or figured out by himself.
The first time you'll be able to see the car is goin to be summer '07. Right now they are testing a BiTurbo FSI V10 ( 580hp ) not sure how much hp this one is goin to end up with.
Right now they are using an S6 with teh new engine for testing in the far north of germany. So if you get raped by an S6 on the autobahn somewheres there...you know what happened ;)
As soon as i get more details ill let you know.


Mike


edit:

Forgot about the design. Gunna be similiar to the A7 design. Picture here:

http://box.motorline.cc/slideshow/image.asp?id=83846&width=435&height=290&text=auto&quality=70

[Leadfoot]

Misha,

Thanks for this info.:thumb:

When talking to your friend next time ask about suspension and gearbox details. Also if there is any bodywork changes such as the use of alloy up front like the TT to help balance the weight and improve steering feel, turn-in and understeer.

Though I class myself too young to buy a RS6, still in my thirties, sorry Ben, I still have a good head of hair so still look too young unlike your good self :hihi:. I do see myself buying one in the next 5 years or so. So the next RS6 or possibly the RS5 do interest me more than the present RS4 which by that time will be old hat.

Another interest is Audi's view on Hi-performance Diesels which are to carry the RS badge. As diesel cars account for 50% of total sales and there is more diesel luxury cars sold than petrol ones, this is the only market yet to be tapped.

[Mr Balsen]

The V10 Twin Turbos is for sure the engine of the next RS6. I have heard it as well from my little finger, which has connections at Ingolstadt.

I also confirm the 600hp range.

Cheers from Paris,
Frederic

[Leadfoot]

I understand why everyone is so interested in the horsepower, it's the big headline grabber, but why is no one talking about the other aspects of the car. Surely the suspension, the handling, the braking system, the gearbox and the bodyshell are all just as important.

Great as the SL65amg is, the SL55 is the better car mainly because it can cope better with the power it produces. Point being too much power can be a bad thing if it's not backed-up with the appropriate equipment e.g. suspension, brakes, gearbox etc.

Previously the RS6 played the role of a Lux/Sportscar, if it is to continue this role it will surely have an automatic box, but with the M5 offering SMG with launch control will Audi be content with an automatic, me thinks not, so does this mean S-Tronic. Will they give is normal springs and dampers when both Merc and BMW offer adaptive alternatives and I think not, so will it get Magnetic ride suspension. Brakes, the M5 has been criticised for it's brake been prone to fade, will Audi use standard disc or go the ceramic route.

These are all very important questions, but as yet no one is asked these questions. All you guys in the know, get cracking and find these things out. Enough about the power, lets get our teeth into something else.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Misha
Hi guys,

As soon as i get more details ill let you know.


Mike



Misha,

Welcome to the forum. Any info is, of course appreciated.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

[Rad-RS6]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
I understand why everyone is so interested in the horsepower, it's the big headline grabber, but why is no one talking about the other aspects of the car. Surely the suspension, the handling, the braking system, the gearbox and the bodyshell are all just as important.

Great as the SL65amg is, the SL55 is the better car mainly because it can cope better with the power it produces. Point being too much power can be a bad thing if it's not backed-up with the appropriate equipment e.g. suspension, brakes, gearbox etc.

Previously the RS6 played the role of a Lux/Sportscar, if it is to continue this role it will surely have an automatic box, but with the M5 offering SMG with launch control will Audi be content with an automatic, me thinks not, so does this mean S-Tronic. Will they give is normal springs and dampers when both Merc and BMW offer adaptive alternatives and I think not, so will it get Magnetic ride suspension. Brakes, the M5 has been criticised for it's brake been prone to fade, will Audi use standard disc or go the ceramic route.

These are all very important questions, but as yet no one is asked these questions. All you guys in the know, get cracking and find these things out. Enough about the power, lets get our teeth into something else.

NICELY STATED!!! If bestial acceleration were my main concern, I'd buy a Hennesey-modded Viper relatively cheaply.

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

the current pre-production RS6 is running tests with either adaptive air- and regular gas shock/spring suspension. As for now adaptive air is prefered. Transmission, only 6-speed Automatic at the moment. Engine is running with 650PS, 780NM. Ceramic Brakes will be a option, no standard.

S-tronic: durability within the RS6 upcoming specs is too low. Still working on that.

[QuattroFun]

No DRC after all the positive feedback in its latest iteration in the RS4? Adaptive air suspension is okay, but does not exactly aid feel and weight...

[Benman]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear Friends,

the current pre-production RS6 is running tests...

Real bummer about the DRC. Yes, 1st gen had problems and 2nd gen might have some as well, but still a bummer that Audi didn't stick with it. Ah well...

Hopefully they'll have a S-Tronic ready in time, it sure would be better than a "normal" Auto box.

How is the car "handling" so far? Any word? And 650PS!!! Hopefully the real deal won't have that much, otherwise I'll have to sell the Beast and go out and buy the new one! :bigeyes: :bigeyes:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear Friends,

the current pre-production RS6 is running tests with either adaptive air- and regular gas shock/spring suspension. As for now adaptive air is prefered. Transmission, only 6-speed Automatic at the moment. Engine is running with 650PS, 780NM. Ceramic Brakes will be a option, no standard.

S-tronic: durability within the RS6 upcoming specs is too low. Still working on that.

It's understand that they prefer air suspension as it is usually easier to get heavy car to handle well without ruining the ride. As it a 6-speed auto, they haven't when to Merc for the gearbox, so this means ZF must have done some work to get the box to take that much torque. I take it this is a similar gearbox as used in the Bentley so the torque converter will lock-up just as fast. No doubt if they choice a manual they wouldn't need as much power, or am I wrong in thinking automatics steal quite a bit of power from the engine.

I suppose they think and rightly so, that normal discs are up to the job when on the road. And for those wanting to take they RS6 to the race there is those ceramic brakes as an option.

Now Qisha, you are kidding when you talk of 650hp, aren't you? Man this is in the league of what Brabus, I would hate to be one of those tuning companies when this hits the street. The only way they are going to improve on that is to strap on a Saturn V rocket.:D

Joking aside, there is no way it will end-up with this amount of power. I reckon it will be pegged back to 550-575hp as the extra strengthening require to it's parts for production would put the price over the £80K+ mark. Audi knows it's place in the market, it's still the new kid on the bloke, as such this places it at best level with BMW on image and that is would allow it to sell just a little bit dearer than the M5, something like £68K would be spot on.

[Qisha]

DRC is not completely impossible but no information on that. The pros for the adaptive air suspension are leveling in this direction. Adjustable ride height-, different drive programs etc. would ensure different needs. The weight is another concern and of course handling the engine output.

The car is designed for these engine specs, final production numbers will be close or equal. The engine set-up still got enough potential to override these values.

Assume a german MSRP around 100K€.

[Misha]

Refering to all ppl worring about the gear box probs etc:
Theres no prob in using the one used in the RS6 plus. A few weeks ago i had the pleasure to drive an RS6 B&B tuned to 650HPs. btw its no big deal to get ur RS tuned that way, as long as u got enough cash ;).
80 grands and B&B tunes the RS6 plus to ca.478 kW / 670PS / 795Nm
->NO the engine was NOT exchanged

http://living-crew.net/wbb2/jgs_galerie_bild.php?bildid=1823&sid=

If ur interested in getting your car tuned, let me know :)

[moldowan]

you say the 1st time we'll see the new rs6 is in the summer of 2007?
you mean advance photos or the car should be avail. by then????????

[yrk2.7t]

Wow bi-turbo V10 FSI, that thing is going to be a torque monster!!

DROOOOOLLLL!!!

[SpinEcho]

Have to say I like the air suspension idea. Audi has always struggled with the handling/ride balance more than BMW, but they seem to have got it right with the air-suspended A8/S8. Not that I have driven an RS4, which seems to have been getting good reviews on its revised DRC...

Good thing for the automatic, too. Personal preference, but I don't think a manual gearbox suits a car like the RS6 at all. When I'm driving my monstrously-powered luxobarge, blasting past the unwashed masses, I don't want to have to row the gears myself (LOL) ! :king:

Let's face it - weight is going to remain a serious issue. I can't believe the car will be any lighter than the current version, and it will almost certianly be heavier. So if we accept it for the super heavyweight bruiser it's going to be, and save the serious sporting qualities for the real sports cars - bring on the power!!!

[Rad-RS6]

SpinEcho - with a name like that, I must ask - are you a radiologist?

[Misha]

I was talkin about advanced pictures and details by the end of summer '07

[RXBG]

so audi has DRC and magnetic ride AND air suspensions? why are they not considering magnetic suspension for the new RS6?

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by RXBG
so audi has DRC and magnetic ride AND air suspensions? why are they not considering magnetic suspension for the new RS6?

Agreed, I know about a year or so ago Autoexpress or Autocar wrote a piece on the new RS6 being tested on the ring and in it they said Audi were using a new system called Magnetic Ride. This was before we knew that the TT was to get the system, so either Audi has tried it on the test mule and it didn't work or it works and they are keeping it for the options list.

Or is it possible that it doesn't give a good enough ride quality on such a heavy car?

Or does the system give great ride quality but bad body control on such a heavy car?

Or should I stop rabbiting on?:doh:

[RXBG]

perhaps the magnetic system is for lighter sports cars. it reacts the fastest but also has it's inherent weight limits....hence the TT and the R8..............

[Benman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot

A:Or is it possible that it doesn't give a good enough ride quality on such a heavy car?

B:Or does the system give great ride quality but bad body control on such a heavy car?

C:Or should I stop rabbiting on?:doh:



D... all of the above.:D



Originally posted by SpinEcho
Let's face it - weight is going to remain a serious issue. I can't believe the car will be any lighter than the current version, and it will almost certianly be heavier.



Spin,

I've been an advocate of the MkI RS 6 for this exact reason. I also find it really hard to believe that Audi will be able to rein in the weight of the MkII Beast. But... nothing is impossible. Afterall, they were actually able to make the MkII TT lighter, by over 100lbs, than the first gen model. Granted, that was with extensive aluminum, but it was possible.

If Audi could produce the miracle of keeping the new RS 6 within 50lbs of the first RS 6, give it 600PS, and bring the Avant to the States, I'd give serious consideration to buying it.:thumb: :rs6kiss:

Ben:addict:

[QuattroFun]

In discussing weight, weight distribution and what can be done about them, I think it is very important to remember that the root of the problem is the donor car. For example, the new S6 saloon is more than 100 kg heavier than the old S6 saloon and same goes for Avant although the new car boasts a marginally improved weight distribution.

Yes, weight saving is crucial but it is usually too late to be very significant at the RS-stage. RS6 is no CSL, Stradale or GT RS and there is no unlimited Veyron (Carbon brakes and carbon here and there as standard etc.) budget at hand. It is simply not financially feasible to start to build unique space frames or even too many bespoke lightweight body panels for a low volume car like RS6. Therefore, the RS4 weighs the same as the S4 despite having bespoke lightweight panels upfront, more aluminium in suspension and light bucket seats. The upgraded brakes, suspension (like, e.g., DRC or adaptive air suspension), engine etc. all effectively undo all the "gimmick" weight savings.

Sure, you can accomplish a 5kg weight saving with an expensive carbon roof - but so what, is it worth the money? Yes, maybe part of a very extensive programme in trying to diet a sporty 1500kg road car to 1300kg track car - but maybe not in trying to make a 2100kg luxury road car down to a still porky 1900kg luxury road car when taking costs into account. Manually adjustable bucket seats, no air con, no power windows etc. are completely out of place in a road going RS6 - and some buy sun roofs to aluminum roofed cars and all the weight saving and lowering of centre of gravity is then more than undone at one stroke.

The new S6 already has many aluminium body panels at front and the new RS6 needs an enlarged front end, which adds to costs and weight. So, in production and road trim with all the added hardware, the RS6 will at the very best not weigh more than the S6 but in reality it probably will just like the RS6 Mk I was heavier than the equivalent S6.

[Benman]

Originally posted by QuattroFun


... So, in production and road trim with all the added hardware, the RS6 will at the very best not weigh more than the S6 but in reality it probably will just like the RS6 Mk I was heavier than the equivalent S6.

Agreed. Hence why I said the "miracle" of making the RS 6 MkII weigh the same as the Mk I.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

I like most of us have been worried about how much weight the new RS6 will be carrying. Hoping that it will not dull the handling too much, kill it's acceleration, top speed and not destory it's ride, all valid points. But we all should not fret, remember the S6 has already bettered the M5 with more weight, less power, less acceleration and all here will agree, not as good handling.

It is well known that the current A6 chassis is better than the current A4 chassis and we already know that the S6 is a better handling car than the S4, so why will this trend not continue with the new RS6 being better than the already brilliant RS4. The fact that Audi are not using the DRC system tells me that their already have a replacement that is even better, regardless of what is being say on this or any other forum.

There is no doubt that it will weigh more than the old RS6, but with the right type of suspension it can still be made to feel light and agile, just look at what Merc has done this their CLS and above models. My bigger concern is it's ride quality, something Audi has in the past had trouble mastering, with the exceptions being the new TT, RS4 and the S8.

With regards to carbon roofs, Audi are not as stupid as BMW, they realise that such a thing should only be placed on something that will benefit such a small reduction in weight. Just look at the M6, saved a total of 95kgs and charged an extra £18K, madness and this is shown in second-hand values. People aren't that stupid, even BMW owners.:D I just hope that Audi ignore these silly gimmicks that have little or no effect on such heavy cars and give it the really important stuff, like giving it the same evil looks of the RS4 with all the elegance of the S8. Lovely.

[Misha]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
I just hope that Audi ignore these silly gimmicks that have little or no effect on such heavy cars and give it the really important stuff, like giving it the same evil looks of the RS4 with all the elegance of the S8. Lovely.

That's the last thing you should worry about ;)
The new RS6 is going to have a complete new front design. I bet its goin to be more evil lookin than teh rs4 one ;)

[Benman]

Originally posted by Misha
That's the last thing you should worry about ;)
The new RS6 is going to have a complete new front design. I bet its goin to be more evil lookin than teh rs4 one ;)

Awesome!

And Leadfoot, I think you meant 9.5kgs... not 95kgs (209lbs) for the carbon fiber roof... No?

Ben:addict:

[SpinEcho]

Hey, Rad-RS6 - PM sent

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Benman
Awesome!

And Leadfoot, I think you meant 9.5kgs... not 95kgs (209lbs) for the carbon fiber roof... No?

Ben:addict:

Ben,

When I said 95kgs this was all of BMW's weight saving efforts which included the shortening of the chassis from M5 to M6. I know that the roof wouldn't make that much on it's own.

[James Wyatt]

Interesting to hear everyone's comments but is bigger better for the new RS6? v10 or v8 ? Turbos or not? I have just read VW have launched a new Golf GT 1.4 ENGINE WITH SUPERCHARGER/TURBO and this gives it a reported 168 BHP and more impressively combined mpg of 38.2 and also apparently dropped CO2 emmissions from 192 to 176. Whilst the new RS6 is not going to be a politically or environmentally correct beast it could move in that direction without necessarily compromising on performance (it would help if it went on a diet before its next incarnation).

:s4addict: SOON TO BE :addict:

[Misha]

Cars which got more than 600 HPs are usually not environmentally correct...:)
If you wanna drive an environmentally correct car get an Audi A3 TDI...i dont think that audi is going for the fastest, and at the same time for the less pollutant car.
RS6 will always be a beast, and beast aint gunna be untroubled...

[Rad-RS6]

Originally posted by SpinEcho
Hey, Rad-RS6 - PM sent

Back @ you

[gmbh6]

Originally posted by Misha
...Right now they are using an S6 with teh new engine for testing in the far north of germany. So if you get raped by an S6 on the autobahn somewheres there...you know what happened ;)
...[/IMG]

:D