New RS6: Signs of live.

[Iceman]

There are signs of live of the new RS6.
In south Africa they start a playful advertising campaign around the Audi RS6.
With this there is a end to the question if there will be a new RS6.
The question is now: when ?.

http://www.autovisie.nl/_internal/cimg!0/mz3dx96ujtj6st.jpg

The new RS6 will be the strongest RS model ever.
The rumoured engine is the 5.2 litre FSI V10 producing ± 550 hp.
It is conceivable that the 5.2 FSI V10 engine will be a Biturbo.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Hans,

There is no doubt that it will be the fastest RS model, unless the R8 do a RS version. But I doubt it will be the best in the handling department. Just as the M6/M5 are faster than the M3/CSL neither of them can match their lesser brothers around the twisties.

And even if the unbelievable did happen that it was better than the RS4, this would be short lived until the new RS/S5 or it's saloon counterpart arrives.

But this is fine because the two cars are playing to different customers. I don't know, but I reckon there is quite an age difference between RS4 and RS6 owners, apart from the odd exceptions.

As for what will power it, I still believe it will be turbo-ed but as to whether it will be V8 or V10, now that's a different matter.:brag:

[Iceman]

If the new RS6 get turbo's then i prever a 4.2 litre FSI V8 Bi-turbo.
And when the new RS6 will get a atmo engine i prever a 5.2 litre FSI V10.

Hans.

[chewym]

I think that a turbo 5.2 liter V10 would be the perfect engine. If it had the same hp per liter as the previous RS6 it would have about 563 hp, which is really good. Audi could go ahead and round that up to 575. That would really destroy the M5 and the E63. Audi could also go with a bored out 5.5 liter naturally aspirated and could probably get 575 hp as well. A V8 turbo could work as well, but I think that is the least likely engine right now. Whichever engine is used, it will need to have 550+ hp to compete with the competition.

[Qisha]

The new RS6 will raise Audi to the top concerning Power Output. At the moment the Merc 65 Series are the max. for "regular" Street Cars, not talking about Brabus&Co. So, 612HP will be beaten.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Qisha
The new RS6 will raise Audi to the top concerning Power Output. At the moment the Merc 65 Series are the max. for "regular" Street Cars, not talking about Brabus&Co. So, 612HP will be beaten.

I like your enthusiasm Qisha, but Merc has had with engine output for a while now and never has Audi came close never mind beaten this before, why would they try to now. All the signs are that Audi are gunning for BMW's crown as best driver's car and I think IMHO that they will be looking to beat the M5's power to weight ratio, not just it's bhp. So the output of the next RS6 will be controlled by how heavy it is.

This is why I reckon it will be turbo-ed, easier to get the desired amount of power and torque.

[Qisha]

Dear Leadfoot,

the M5 is @3,59 power:weight (pro BMW figures 3,5)

How do you like ~2,9x? :D

Correct, the only way to achieve this is not beeing heavier as the current S6 and a turboed Engine. In fact the V10 Bi-Turbo. What comes with that quote? Beating the power:weight as well as the overall german power crown carriers.

[RXBG]

i expect the V8 R8 to do 60 in 4.0 seconds. do you think the RS6 will be designed to be able to break that barrier?

[QuattroFun]

Sorry, but it is simply not believeable that RS6 would make in excess of 612PS when even more expensive in-house peer Bentley Continental has to do with 560PS and 650Nm and closest RS6 competitors are at 507-514PS. Moreover, there is no modern 6-speed VW Tiptronic gearbox (not talking Veyron DSG or old 5-speeders from Bentleys here) that can take in excess of 750Nm currently. RS6 with twin-turbo V10 producing 550PS and maybe 650Nm assuming a engine top speed of some 7000 rpm like in S8 is still the best guess in my books.

[RXBG]

i agree. 550hp is my top figure for the RS6. the new engine will go into the R8 as well and so it cannot be more powerful than the base gallardo engine- which by then might be at 570 or so in the new gallardo......

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by QuattroFun
Sorry, but it is simply not believeable that RS6 would make in excess of 612PS when even more expensive in-house peer Bentley Continental has to do with 560PS and 650Nm and closest RS6 competitors are at 507-514PS. Moreover, there is no modern 6-speed VW Tiptronic gearbox (not talking Veyron DSG or old 5-speeders from Bentleys here) that can take in excess of 750Nm currently. RS6 with twin-turbo V10 producing 550PS and maybe 650Nm assuming a engine top speed of some 7000 rpm like in S8 is still the best guess in my books.

I agree, but the gearbox will always be the problem with this amount of torque even if it kept to 650Nm. This is why the M5 produces only 389lbs/ft of torque, it's easier to make a gearbox to cope. But alas the RS6 is always going to weigh more than the M5 what with AWD, so they will have to produce a gearbox to give it an exceptable power and torque advantage to beat it's only real rival (the BMW M5). The other question that no one has asked is, will the next RS6 by automatic or S-Tronic?

[QuattroFun]

M5 is a great car and deserves all respect, but yet it is a prime example of template thinking taken too far (motorsport blah blah...) - great engine in a good but wrong car. A high strung engine with poor low-end torgue and short gear ratios is fine for a light Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo etc. and as well as an M3, RS4 (barely) and of course R8 - but not heavy executive/luxury saloon with more laid back character ala M5, RS6 or E63 AMG. Yes, more torque requires heavier hardware, which is not ideal of course, but it goes with the mission at hand.

Now, toy thinking and technical curiousity aside, who would seriously buy something like a MTM RS6 Avant (!!!) with bucket front seats, roll cage and - for crying out loud - no rear seats? Does the average 50Y or so old buyer of M5:s regularly run their M5 to limiter in all traffic lights?

[steve]

Originally posted by QuattroFun


Now, toy thinking and technical curiousity aside, who would seriously buy something like a MTM RS6 Avant (!!!) with bucket front seats, roll cage and - for crying out loud - no rear seats? Does the average 50Y or so old buyer of M5:s regularly run their M5 to limiter in all traffic lights? [/B]

Something like this? :p

http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/AUDI-RS6-Avant-MTM-circuit_W0QQitemZ120005273788QQihZ002QQcategoryZ40 179QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I had a ride in it in march at Francorchamps... 500hp and a high 1500kg's sure went well! :rs6kiss:

[QuattroFun]

My good man, that is the one allright - thx. Yeah, I am quite sure it is an absolute rocket and probably has very decent handling as well - but what is it good for? A large and clumsy estate car as the basis re-made through an expensive weight saving diet and having no rear seats: something for fast undertakers, pet doctors on emergency call or just-on-time delivery boys? Now, what they have to do next is to shoehorn a naturally aspirating high-revving engine into it and then the ultimate paradox picture is complete... an honest Gallardo anyone?:)

[Radiation Joe]

...as apposed to a BMW audience.
First:
All should remember when talking about HP numbers that these are engine HP and not wheel HP. The AWD sucks at least an extra 3-4 percent away compared to RWD.
Second:
HP is what makes your car get up and go; or more accurately the area under the HP curve. If you want to talk about torque, then you have to look at the torque that makes it to the ground. You'll find out that torquey engines "feel" fast but that low torque M5 engine with 7 gears gets more torque to the ground most of the time.
Third:
My 350 HP e46 M3 is as fast as my 450 HP RS6 in almost all situations. Why? Because it weighs 700 lbs less, has a manual, and is RWD. The drivetrain sucks far less power from the BMW than does the Audi. I estimate that the Audi gets only about 350 HP to the ground where the M3 gets about 285.
Finally:
I love my RS6. Most of the time it is the vehicle I choose to drive. But I won't compare it to an M5. They are different cars. The M5 has driving "feel" that the Audi can only dream of. When I want to have fun behind the wheel, I park the Audi and get into the M3. BMWs drive like extensions of your body, whereas the Audis are like driving a video game (a really, really nice video game). HP isn't everything. Sorry if that offended anyone, but it's only my opinion. :addict:

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by QuattroFun
M5 is a great car and deserves all respect, but yet it is a prime example of template thinking taken too far (motorsport blah blah...) - great engine in a good but wrong car. A high strung engine with poor low-end torgue and short gear ratios is fine for a light Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo etc. and as well as an M3, RS4 (barely) and of course R8 - but not heavy executive/luxury saloon with more laid back character ala M5, RS6 or E63 AMG. Yes, more torque requires heavier hardware, which is not ideal of course, but it goes with the mission at hand.

Now, toy thinking and technical curiousity aside, who would seriously buy something like a MTM RS6 Avant (!!!) with bucket front seats, roll cage and - for crying out loud - no rear seats? Does the average 50Y or so old buyer of M5:s regularly run their M5 to limiter in all traffic lights?

QuattroFun,

I was using the M5 torque as a point, not what I believe Audi should do with the RS6. I don't believe that the next RS6 will be in the same mould as the last one, this might get some people's goat up, but in my opinion it was doing the role of Luxury/Sportscar not even as well as the current M5. In this I mean the ride was way too hard to be a real Luxury car and the fact it will an auto meant it wasn't really a sportscar either.

Placing aside the performance thing for a moment, I don't know what Audi has planed for the RS6, but IMHO they should be including Magnetic Ride suspension and S-Tronic as standard. This suspension should take care of the ride quality without destroying the handling/body control and the S-Tronic will satisfy both the real drivers among us and the as you put it, the 50+ buyer for these type of cars.

Up to now Audi has choose the middle ground between BMW's M5 and Mercedes E55AMG. I would still like this to be the place the RS6 sits, but hopefully addressing the above points.

Back to the performance, Audi should drop the V10 for the RS6, using the RS4 engine with a couple of turbos should provide the desired power and torque but should be a lighter combination at the front than a V10, yes it would be to a higher state of tune, but the handling benefits more than out weigh the power advantage that the V10 will have, not to forget the economy saving from a smaller engine. What with the RS4 producing 420hp, there would have to be something wrong if this engine couldn't at least produce an extra 100+hp with a couple of turbos.

[QuattroFun]

Gentlemen, good points.

RS6: it is not and cannot be a M3 or a Gallardo and the new one should not be made based on the same receipe as the current M5 although there are indeed several areas of improvement. Why?

1) It will be heavier than an M5 in any case unless you strip it bare and then the point is surely lost, 2) it is not real sports and nor is the M5. But for comparison the RS4 steering feel and agility is not Porsche-like but it surely competes well with the standard M3 despite the weight disadvantage and offers a better ride, 3) it is not targeted at M3 buyers in the 20-40Y age bracket and to cater for those same needs, 4) the previous RS6 was very loved for its un-M5-like character - turbo shove, auto gearbox, better build quality and more sense of luxury occassion - as well as hated for its harsh ride and understeer much the same way as the current RS4 is loved for its M3-like character and best ride in class. 5) S-tronic or DSG - not to mention the SMG - is best saved for real sports cars - not sporty executive/luxury cars. The tip in S8 is very good also when it comes to manual shifting.

Save the more serious sporting intent for cars that are intended for it and up to the job in terms of size, weight and weight distribution etc. - R8 in particular and to a lesser extent RS5/RS4. Make the new RS6 an improved cross between the lovely current S8, the very nice current RS4 and the some good-some bad old RS6 - power upgrade is a given but with improved ride and throttle response (even with turbos) and less understeer without compromising feel too much at the top the list. Sure, you can do a S3 with 2.0TFSI even if the top A3 has a 3.0 V6. However, the handling/fuel advantage from a TFSI V8 4.2 versus a TFSI V10 5.2 is pretty minimal when also bearing in mind that you have to reliably pump out 550PS without too compromised durability (the 450/480PS old 4.2 RS6 had its share of problems as did the old 140PS/litre RS4) as well as cater for bragging rights...

:addict:

[Benman]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear Leadfoot,

the M5 is @3,59 power:weight (pro BMW figures 3,5)

How do you like ~2,9x? :D


Qisha,

If they actually achieve a number close to that figure, it would be a fantastically quick sedan! Nothing is impossible I guess.

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Benman
Qisha,

If they actually achieve a number close to that figure, it would be a fantastically quick sedan! Nothing is impossible I guess.

Ben:addict:

Ben,

Not impossible but highly unlikely.:D

[Qisha]

If they actually achieve a number close to that figure, it would be a fantastically quick sedan! Nothing is impossible I guess.
Dear Ben,

in short terms, at the end it is supposed to match these numbers closely.

@Leadfoot

the V8 Bi-Turbo concept was droped early because it was not developing the wanted values.

@RXBG

the new RS6 Engine will not be used in the R8.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear Ben,

in short terms, at the end it is supposed to match these numbers closely.

@Leadfoot

the V8 Bi-Turbo concept was droped early because it was not developing the wanted values.

@RXBG

the new RS6 Engine will not be used in the R8.

Qisha,

To match the numbers you are saying, it would have to be producing close to or even over 600hp.:bigeyes: surely not, this would demand a very big and heavy transmission system that would increase to ready heavy RS6. I know you can make a heavy car handle but it's harder to make a heavy car change direction as easy and if this is the case, it will always play second fiddle to the M5 as the driver's car in the class.:rolleyes:

When you say it willnot be used in the R8, do you mean in the form that is in the RS6 eg. Bi-Turbo V10 or do you mean the V10 will not be used?

[M!]

To beat the M5 and not just in speed, the new RS6 has to be lighter than the M5.
If a car weights more than 2000kg(witch i think the new RS6 is gonna do) it doesent matter if you you have 550 or 600 bhp in your engine.The driver experience is just lost with a heavy car.
Even the M5 is to heavy but atleast its under 1900kg and should be considered god for a 4 door salooncar.
If only Audi havent had 4wheeldrive........

[QuattroFun]

The 5.0 TFSI (not 5.2 but based on Gallardo engine) in the Le Mans/Nuovolari concepts yielded 610/600PS and 750Nm whilst the Audi 4.2 TFSI in Pikes Peak gave 500PS/630Nm. These are probably close to the peak in terms of what can reliably taken out in production cars and more than are taken out from Bentley/old RS6 so it has to be 5.2 TFSI for the RS6 - but more than 600PS in RS6 production trim still sounds too wild for me. Moreover, the RS6 front end must probably be bespokely enlarged to swallow the big engine and cater for cooling, which adds to costs.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by M!
To beat the M5 and not just in speed, the new RS6 has to be lighter than the M5.
If a car weights more than 2000kg(witch i think the new RS6 is gonna do) it doesent matter if you you have 550 or 600 bhp in your engine.The driver experience is just lost with a heavy car.
Even the M5 is to heavy but atleast its under 1900kg and should be considered god for a 4 door salooncar.
If only Audi havent had 4wheeldrive........

I agree with a lot of what you are saying with exception to the last it. I believe the AWD is what make Audi appeal to a more educated customer base than either the M5 or E55AMG. The advantage that AWD gives a hi-performance car over it's RWD rivals is the ability to use it's power more of the time and in more weather conditions. Yes RWD can provide more fun and as a toy thing it's the ideal choice, but as a all-in one car, the Quattro is the only choice.

The M5 has not got BMW's holy grail of 50/50 weight balance, it's more like 54/46% and being rwd this means the transition from understeer to oversteer is not as smooth as a car with 50/50% and this is why it's improvement over the M3 around the ring was so small when you consider it's performance advantage. The RS6 will probably have a weight balance close to the M5 but with Quattro it will control it's under/oversteer better, so will be a lot easier to drive quickly and will more than likely produce a better lap time as well if a little less entertaining in the process.

This is why I said it will be playing second fiddle to the M5, but only in the eyes of the motoring journalists and their magazines. Everyone here knows who the real king of the road will be.:king: :addict:

[M!]

Just wondering. How come Audi always comes with their beasts at the end of the production of the cars?

Look att the last RS6, it came out just befor a new A6 was about to be introduced.

Same with the RS4 B7, it came out this year, but a new A4 is about to be introduced shortly.

and the new RS6 is coming out in 2008 and is also shortly before a new A6 is coming out.

Why so late?

BMW always comes out with their beasts maximum of 2years after a new model.Witch makes the car feel new for longer before a new one is introduced.

Jus a thaught....

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by M!
Just wondering. How come Audi always comes with their beasts at the end of the production of the cars?

Look att the last RS6, it came out just befor a new A6 was about to be introduced.

Same with the RS4 B7, it came out this year, but a new A4 is about to be introduced shortly.

and the new RS6 is coming out in 2008 and is also shortly before a new A6 is coming out.

Why so late?

BMW always comes out with their beasts maximum of 2years after a new model.Witch makes the car feel new for longer before a new one is introduced.

Jus a thaught....

M!,

I understand where you are coming from with that one. You are partly right, remember Audi do bring out there S models in the first two years of production but the RS models seem to be the swan song of the model or is it a way of helping the sales of the model nearing the end of production?

I reckon from now on the RS model will play a bigger role in future models, talk is the TT will have a RS model within the next two years.

[M!]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
M!,

I understand where you are coming from with that one. You are partly right, remember Audi do bring out there S models in the first two years of production but the RS models seem to be the swan song of the model or is it a way of helping the sales of the model nearing the end of production?

I reckon from now on the RS model will play a bigger role in future models, talk is the TT will have a RS model within the next two years.

It´s just that you dont want to bye a brand new car, even if it has 600bhp and is the top od the line when the modell is being replaced with a new one just a year after.
You want your car to feel new for longer.
Todays RS4 is a hell of a car, but its built on a old model, just facelifted, it starts already feel old. Magen how old it would feel when the new A4 comes out next year!

Well better lat then never right? :)

[Benman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
Qisha,

To match the numbers you are saying, it would have to be producing close to or even over 600hp.:bigeyes: surely not, this would demand a very big and heavy transmission system that would increase to ready heavy RS6. I know you can make a heavy car handle but it's harder to make a heavy car change direction as easy and if this is the case...
Oh, I don't know... the Veyron seems to cope with it's weight pretty well...

Ben:addict:

[moldowan]

All i know is that when i went to the dealer here is san antonio I said I want to be 1st on the list. their response was " you are 8th!!!!":vgrumpy:
seem's there are lots of people down here that got wind of it and want one already. A few are spurs players etc..... One is tommy lee jones (jerk has his name on every frikin new car out-LOL) he got the 1st e63 amg here is SA, TX too!
Funny because they had 2 rs6's sit on their lot in 2003 for a long time, and they don't charge over msrp-EVER!
bottom line this is the only car i want or will trade my cls55 amg for!!!
My bet is 525-550 hp in a biturbo v10. remember the new M5 due in 2010 or 2011 will have 550hp according to the Sept. issue of automobile mag.
-marc

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Benman
Oh, I don't know... the Veyron seems to cope with it's weight pretty well...

Ben:addict:

Ben,

You have to remember that the Veyron is mid-engined with a better weight balance than what the RS6 will have. Most of it's weight is over the rear wheels as opposed to the RS6 where most of it's weight is over the fronts. The Veyron will be much better at directional changes due to this fact.

I am not doubting that the new RS6 will be an amazing car and will move the game on from where the old car left off, but at some point weight has to play a part in producing a great handling car.

At present no one know what Audi has planned for the bodywork of the RS6. Will it use a lot more alloy up front compared to the rest of the range, what suspension system will it employ, will it get S-Tronic transmission? All points that could answer in what direction Audi is taking the RS6.

I still think Audi hasn't made it's decision on how much power the RS6 will have. Me bet is between 525-550hp, just enough to give it an advantage over the M5, but leaving enough scope to be added if and when BMW up it's game. We are starting to approach to point when this amount of power is to much to have in a RWD saloon car, just look at all of the 500+hp Mercs, every one of them work their ESP systems to over load when full throttle is used.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot


I am not doubting that the new RS6 will be an amazing car and will move the game on from where the old car left off, but at some point weight has to play a part in producing a great handling car.



Agreed. Cars are getting heavier and heavier. Just look at the "little" A3. the fully loaded 3.2 lists at 3700lbs! That is crazy! We are getting close to having a 4000lb A3 on our roads! So I agree that weight should be focused on more than raw power.

Ben:addict:

[chutia]

moldowan-
You day you own a cls55 amg? I sold my RS6 after owning it for 3 months due to its well-known issues. But MB has a deservedly horrible build quality/dependability reputation. A guy I know who is a senior service mgr at the largest MB dealership in Newport Beach, CA (largest seller of MB's in the country) told me that the build quality and dependability and MB's standing behind this car's problems simply stinks. I'm currently seriously buying a cls 55 amg until something better (new RS6??) comes along. Any comments from you would be most helpful and thanks in advance.

[moldowan]

chutia,
I was in the same boat as you 3 months ago! I really wanted to buy Dave Stasek's rs6 in ohio. after reading about the problems with the rs6's and recently having serious issues with a cts-v I was really skepical and passed on his awesome missano red beast!
I had heard of many issues with the E55 as well but most of them were "electronic gremlins" but considering the 03's are going to be out of warranty soon I thought it was a "safer" route to go. My folks have driven MB's for 20 plus years with only my dads 2000 S class having problems.
To date I believe this cls55 is the BEST car I have ever driven/owned. I have had no issues with 7k on the OD now. The only item i believe the rs6 has on the cls55 is the suspension- it's tuned a bit sportier. Somewhere between my cts-v and the cls55.
the cls55 is really fast!!! In san antonio, Tx I take it to the dragstrip aqnd in 100 degree heat and 90% humidity I can run 12.6- 12.7 all day long. In cooler climates like 50-60 degrees I think it will run in the 12.3- 12.4 range.
many people on the MB list are not impressed with the new 63 engine and that is the reason I went with the "older" 55 kompressor engine. Awesome torque of the line!!!!!!
one of the recent auto mags had a long term update of a new a6 3.2 and it looked like it had many quality issues as well.
Bottom line I think MB's quality is now back to where it was before. they know they slacked off and are back on the ball.
My advice is get the cls55 its awesome!
I still will get the new rs6 regardless cause I love the rs line, truth be told i wish the old rs6 didn't have the issues cause i really wanted one!
-Marc

[chutia]

moldowan-
thanks indeed for your response and candor. The RS6 was the second Audi I owned; the first being the venerable 5000T when it first came out of the skies like a spaceship, completely setting a new standard in body design and cD. Mechanically, however, it was an abject disaster and a joke! W/ great hesitation, I bought the RS6, loved the car for what it aspires to be. And then again: another dependability, spare parts availability, AoA hubris/stonewalling, untrained dealer techs, etc. bad experience. Too bad, really. But I cut my losses short and got rid of the RS6 quickly. Again, too bad as it was a blast to drive.
Enough of that>>>
OK, so no real problems w/ the cls55 that you have had and, in your experience, MB is finally getting better re build quality and dependability and dealer service. I hope you are right, b/c the latest NADA dealer survey and the JD Powers surveys both show the tier one German cars and makers to be pathetically low on the above counts. Lexus is obviously the perennial (12th year in a row) #1. BMW was the highest ranked German maker, but its score in terms of problems/100 cars was twice Lexus'; then it was a more pathetic showing for MB, and Audi was simply a joke. I did read the Automobile mag write-up on the A6 long term test; it simply supports these findings. EVERY Audi owner I know has nothing good to say re dependability or owner satisfaction: "it's always at the dealership getting fixed for something."

I'll go check out the cls55. IF the new RS, whenever it debuts, has a better track record, well. I'll certainly look into it, w/ great skepticism re its build quality and dependability. Thanks!

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

some news:

the DL 501, 7-Speed DSG Gearbox, will go in Production at the end of 2007. This Gearbox will make it into all "High Power" Audi Cars. VW will use the same, called DQ 500. If you already watched the R8 catch up Video, you can get a idea... :D

The long run RS6 Mules use the close to Production Engine Specs. V10 Bi-Turbo, 580 HP, 740NM.

[Bomber]

WAAUUUUUWWW!!

:incar:

[Fab]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear Friends,

some news:

the DL 501, 7-Speed DSG Gearbox, will go in Production at the end of 2007. This Gearbox will make it into all "High Power" Audi Cars. VW will use the same, called DQ 500. If you already watched the R8 catch up Video, you can get a idea... :D

The long run RS6 Mules use the close to Production Engine Specs. V10 Bi-Turbo, 580 HP, 740NM. lets hope all the above will come true :MTM: :MTM:

[JavierNuvolari]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear Friends,

some news:

The long run RS6 Mules use the close to Production Engine Specs. V10 Bi-Turbo, 580 HP, 740NM.

:MTM: :MTM: wooow....those numbers are insane. Thanks for the info Qisha.


Saludos,


Javier

[gjg]

I hope they will put in 90 or 100 liter fuel tank ....

[AndyBG]

Like everybody here, i am to very happy to hear this, BUT, isn't these figures, yet again, smaller than expected?

If i understand this correctly, new C6 RS 6 want be presented before IAA Frankfurt '07, and first cars will roll on the road not before spring '08, so... , by than, MB will show its all new E class, AMG variant of that car will be .... VERY POWERFULL.

Seems to me that we are again going to see Audi on top just for a short period of time, all becouse of its ''bad timing'', any coments on this... ?


Maybe I am missing the point?

[Qisha]

If i understand this correctly, new C6 RS 6 want be presented before IAA Frankfurt '07, and first cars will roll on the road not before spring '08, so... , by than, MB will show its all new E class, AMG variant of that car will be .... VERY POWERFULL.

Dear AndyBG,

you are right but dont worry, 580HP, 740NM is the lowest Output that has been tested for long runs. It is not "printed" on paper yet, so you can expect a healthy competitor. The S6-Body-RS6 Mule runs with 650PS, ~790NM. Figures are only Software quoted (static), so it might be well over these numbers.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear AndyBG,

you are right but dont worry, 580HP, 740NM is the lowest Output that has been tested for long runs. It is not "printed" on paper yet, so you can expect a healthy competitor. The S6-Body-RS6 Mule runs with 650PS, ~790NM. Figures are only Software quoted (static), so it might be well over these numbers.

I don't want to sound like a kill-joy but 650PS would put the RS6 a full 215PS over the S6. I can't remember there ever being that big of a gap before, that 50% more than the S6.:MTM:

Previously the increases were

S6 - RS6 (110PS) 30%, RS6+ (140PS) 39%
S4 - RS4 B5 Model (115PS) 43%
S4 - RS4 B7 Model (70PS) 20%

I know that when you look at the percentage increase of the Turbo cars are getting closest to this amount but can you really believe that we will now be seeing a 215PS increase.

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Like everybody here, i am to very happy to hear this, BUT, isn't these figures, yet again, smaller than expected?


Andy, 580hp is a 130hp increase over MkI RS 6. If you ask me, a huge leap! Even bigger than the leap that the new M5 makes over the previous one (400 vs 500). So IMHO, just fine. The real issue is what the final weight figure will be. And that 7 speed DSG!!! :bow:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear AndyBG,

you are right but dont worry, 580HP, 740NM is the lowest Output that has been tested for long runs. It is not "printed" on paper yet, so you can expect a healthy competitor. The S6-Body-RS6 Mule runs with 650PS, ~790NM. Figures are only Software quoted (static), so it might be well over these numbers.

Ok, then...

Just one question, wehn AUDI plans the facelift of C6 A6, and is new RS 6 going to be on that same platform or, like with B7 RS 4 they are going to ''jump over'' one platform and go streight tu C7?

?

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Ok, then...

Just one question, wehn AUDI plans the facelift of C6 A6, and is new RS 6 going to be on that same platform or, like with B7 RS 4 they are going to ''jump over'' one platform and go streight tu C7?

?

Good point (ala B7 RS 4 vs B6...). Makes sense to me.

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Now, we just need somebody the clear it for us...

... Qisha... ?

[Qisha]

Just one question, wehn AUDI plans the facelift of C6 A6, and is new RS 6 going to be on that same platform or, like with B7 RS 4 they are going to ''jump over'' one platform and go streight tu C7?

The new RS6 is based on the A6 C6 Type 4F. It will be a lot more exclusive, so it will get the latest Audi technology. Some details wont be seen until the RS6.

Yes, i believe ~50% Power Output increase compared to the S6 is not impossible. The new RS6 will break some rules, this is one.

[AndyBG]

Originally posted by Qisha
.... The new RS6 will break some rules, this is one.


We have one saying, and it goes:

''From your mouth to Gods ears.''

I hope you are wright, THANKS!

:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Qisha
The new RS6 is based on the A6 C6 Type 4F. It will be a lot more exclusive, so it will get the latest Audi technology. Some details wont be seen until the RS6.

Yes, i believe ~50% Power Output increase compared to the S6 is not impossible. The new RS6 will break some rules, this is one.

Qisha,

I just reckon it was to good to be true. Like 650PS is more than almost all of the supercars presently made apart of the Bugatti and the Koenigsegg cxx.

I can't believe it will be as cheap as the M5 or the E63, cause lets face it, it will wipe the floor with both of them with that amount of extra power.:hihi:

Oh, I just thought of something, we all know how many M5 are having transmission problems. Well the first time a M5 owner finally tackles this new RS6, it will leave them that fast they will think their SMGIII will have grabbed a bunch of neutrals.:applause:

Now for the sticky question, what the price likely to be.:eye:

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

there is another DSG Gearbox (under construction) that will make it into Production:

DL 751 (DQ 750 for VW based cars)

This Gearbox is supposed/wanted to take up to 1.100NM (!) of Torque.

I would assume that this Transmission will be used in the upcoming "larger" Diesel set-ups.

[AndyBG]

Thas that mean that manuall gearbox has ''counted its days'' in all future performance Audis?

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Thas that mean that manuall gearbox has ''counted its days'' in all future performance Audis?

Especially with the amounts of torque talked about here. Just one missed gear change and you could clean the teeth off one of the gears. And with awd systems it's so easy to block a gear change when trying to swap cogs quickly, this is where semi-automatic gearboxes come into their own, never a missed gear change.

Yes, it's days are numbered. But like the introduction of ABS. The purists among us will complain that it spoils the link between man and machine, but the rest of us will be glad it available.

[AndyBG]

I read today on one BMW forum that some guy in USA had placed order for '07 BMW M5 with 6 speed manuall?

I hope that Audi new gearbox will work good.

[AndyBG]

Originally posted by Benman
The real issue is what the final weight figure will be.

And, yes...

What is going to be about weight, is there plans for making new RS 6 ''slim''?

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by AndyBG
And, yes...

What is going to be about weight, is there plans for making new RS 6 ''slim''?

I think the answer is in the fact it will have at least 650ps. This to me spell it out clearly, no. I don't weight or speed will be the problem, I think it will be stopping the beast.:confused:

Can you get calipers with 20 pistons.:D

[MJN]

Addin more and more power is not the solution in that class. That's what Mercedes tries to do for years, but for example, an E55 is not as sporty as for example a BMW M5.

I really hope they try to make the car light. Options for weight reduction are aluminium fenders like the RS4, or aluminium hood or roof. Honestly, i don't see Audi working with Carbonfibre parts on the RS6.

I'd rather have a lighter 550 bhp RS6 then a relatively heavy 600-650 bhp RS6....

[absent]

Originally posted by MJN
I'd rather have a lighter 550 bhp RS6 then a relatively heavy 600-650 bhp RS6....
Unfortunately,neither one is happening...
Expect a heavy ,upper 500hp RS6.

[Erik]

Originally posted by absent
Unfortunately,neither one is happening...
Expect a heavy ,upper 500hp RS6.

You have a point.

If Audi released a more powerful car than the Bentley...cannibalism. On the other hand Bentley could increase as well.

[BBGT2]

Originally posted by absent
Unfortunately,neither one is happening...
Expect a heavy ,upper 500hp RS6.

My guess is that the next gen Audi RS6 will have no more than 550HP on tap. And of course will be heavy. That will hinder its performance and maybe get 4.4 seconds to 100kmh. That is my prediction judging how Audi is doing things with their cars.
Add that to the probable fact that Audi wont/cant release the car until late 2007 in Europe and probably mid 2007 as a 08 model in the US and again it leaves plenty of time for the other manufacturers to beef up their cars and make the Audi the lesser power house. Now, having said that it wouldnt make a bit of difference to anyone who wants RS6 over the MBZ or Bimmer.
You buy the Audi because that is what you like and the happiness it creates for you regardless of how much HP it produces.
As far as it making more than the Bentley, so what if a 4 door sports sedan makes more power than a GT coupe.
If Audi by chance makes the RS6 with 650hp I would gladly sell Bentley and get that instead, that would be a hoot to drive with all that power. But honestly I dont think Audi will do it, if I am wrong...... I dont know ban me from visiting here, LOL.
I love the Audi brand and what they are capable of doing with their technological know how. But then it always has to answer to the Big Daddy which stinks. Unfortunately some big wig will say that A6 model does not need that much power. Quattro Gmbh's hands are tied versus their counterparts with AMG, where they are given pretty much Carte Blanche to most of the the things they do. Did AMG need to produce a engine that has nothing to do with MBZ, hell no they did it because they can.
I sincerly hope that Audi does make the RS6 with the most power they can and not hold it back and it would really be nice that if they certify and make it possible for us on this side of the pond have all the goodies the rest of the world gets. I am still sore at them for us not getting the Euro seats and Nav+ system in our cars.

Bajo
(flame suit on :hahahehe: )

[Leadfoot]

Quite a lot are voicing for the RS6 to be lighter and not go for such a high power output, yeah, I would go along with that. But alas as all RS models are coming so late in the production cycle, they are not really though of in the same way as the M models are with BMW. Right at the development stage, the M model needs are considered and what is good for the M, is good with the rest of the range. So they get lots of alloy and light weight steel up front to benefit the handling.

Audi needs to change it's think as to when to introduce the S/RS models. I think they should look at what is going to be benefit them from the off and this in turn will benefit the rest of the range as well. But with the current A6, the model though greatly improved over the last model is still not a the point (handling wise) where we would all like it to be. At this late stage Audi can only do small things to improve the RS6, maybe give it an alloy bonnet and possible plastic wings, but these will have little overall effect on the weight balance of the car and will possible only be done the counteract the extra weight of the turbos.

I think unless the arrival of the new A5/A4 shows marked improvements as to how serious Audi are about improving their family cars dynamics, we will carry on saying things about the RS models like a little to late as per usual.

[absent]

"Never follow".......:rolleyes:

[Iceman]

Audi could surprice every one with the new RS6 and put in a 500+ hp V12 CR TDI.

Hans.

[AndyBG]

Originally posted by Iceman
Audi could surprice every one with the new RS6 and put in a 500+ hp V12 CR TDI.


I'm having same feeling...

[absent]

Originally posted by Iceman
Audi could surprice every one with the new RS6 and put in a 500+ hp V12 CR TDI.

Hans.
That would be way too much "never follow" in the eyes of Audi management.
Too bad....

[QuattroFun]

Oops, this thread seems to go on forever - do check the Q7 diesel news, but me thinks that if the long-run mule runs 580PS then that is also the very max for the production version. All the 650PS stuff is probably only to test how a tuned car will hold up - yes, you void warranty by chipping but Audi's reputation is still on the line even in the chipped cars so they have to know. In Germany, I hear they talk about a RS6 price of 110K euros - i.e. some 10% more than Qisha reckons and the price of old RS6 Plus. That would make it 20K euros more expensive than the M5 so it better be good...

[Fab]

Originally posted by Iceman
Audi could surprice every one with the new RS6 and put in a 500+ hp V12 CR TDI.

Hans. come on no way ! I hope not although such engine could definitely fit perfectly the Q7 or A8. Leave the RS with petrol engine please :D

On the other hand this power battle can't go on forever i.e. manufacturers will not end up with 700-800hp sports car. So what will be the next step to get the rank of the best sport saloon manufacturer ? Balance and/or weight reduction ? Yes and no as today's cars can't significantly get lighter. HHMM with new energy regulations and oil issue we may not be so far from the end of powerfull car production :cry:

[QuattroFun]

Originally posted by Fab
come on no way ! I hope not although such engine could definitely fit perfectly the Q7 or A8. Leave the RS with petrol engine please :D

I second that for sure! Those who screw engine sound & ability to rev freely and worry too much about fuel bills in an expensive and also otherwise expensive to maintain high performance car must be lost in action...:D

[Fab]

especially now that crude is below 66 $ a barrel. Let's hope it stays there... very unlikely though :confused:

[Skaala]

I agree, but the gearbox will always be the problem with this amount of torque even if it kept to 650Nm. This is why the M5 produces only 389lbs/ft of torque, it's easier to make a gearbox to cope. But alas the RS6 is always going to weigh more than the M5 what with AWD, so they will have to produce a gearbox to give it an exceptable power and torque advantage to beat it's only real rival (the BMW M5). The other question that no one has asked is, will the next RS6 by automatic or S-Tronic?

the new Q7 6.0 V12 will have 1000Nm, so Audi can build strong enough gearboxes:mech: :cheers:

[m3fan]

I hope that the new RS6 will have more than the S6/S8 398ft. The RS6 will be heavier than Both the M5 and E63. The E63 has less torque then the E55 but it still 465ft is alot. Please AUDI more torqueand DSG.