Dropping the clutch at what rev for RS4?

[ghostsnake]

I was just curious if you were to drop the clutch on an RS4 at the start line what would be the max rev to drop it for a four wheel drive car withought cutting the clutch. Has anyone done this also yet.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by ghostsnake
I was just curious if you were to drop the clutch on an RS4 at the start line what would be the max rev to drop it for a four wheel drive car withought cutting the clutch. Has anyone done this also yet.

In my S4, if it's wet maybe 4500-5000rpm, but if it's dry I wouldn't give it anything more than 3000-3500rpm. Either way, it just grip in any road conditions. By the way mine is a manual.

[MR USER]

You should drive this car like you drive a racing car....
When you declutch you do not touch the accelerator, after you declutched you plant your right foot to the floor.

on the Nurburgring I've seen a 300 km RS4 (brand new) burning the clutch with just one start!

[BigRick]

Originally posted by MR USER
You should drive this car like you drive a racing car....
When you declutch you do not touch the accelerator, after you declutched you plant your right foot to the floor.

on the Nurburgring I've seen a 300 km RS4 (brand new) burning the clutch with just one start!

Isn't that a bit strange that we can burn a clutch with one bad start... With all the electronics we have now a day why do we still have that kind of problem... Even if I've been driving manual for years, it still happen to me to miss a shift (bumby road not helping in the process of releasing the clutch)

That makes my really wants those DSG (or even an automatic) when I hear things like that.

[MR USER]

I do not think that missing a gear should rappresent a problem for a strong clutch as the RS4 one.
A wrong start could do that.... You have 420nm of torque to play and monster traction system to contrast that force. The mass of the car does not help either.
Once is moving it's fine unless you really do something wrong. On the other hand starting from still with quattro traction and a lot of power to your disposal requires a little care.

In any case is good practice to declutch without accelerating when starting from still. Someone posted infos on how to do a fast start. If I remember correctly he said you should floor the accelerator with the clutch pressed and fist gear engaged. Then when the engine limiter kiks in just move the right foot away sideways keeping your right foot planted. Beware the ESP should be off.

I have not tryed this on my car and I have no intention of doing so! but if anyone does let me know what the result is, even is the differentials explode!

According to who posted this infos the car will spin on four wheels for a while and sart at a crazy pace!


By the way Bigric, is not strange that you can burn a cluch with a powerful engine.... after all is still a clutch. I just reccomend not doing it as I have seen a cloud of thick white smoke coming out of the RS4 ahead of me. I do not wish anybody here to repeat the same mistake as I know how much you all love your beautiful cars.....

[fardene]

Having owned an RS4 B7 since April in Uk, I have pretty much perfected the traffic light grand prix!

switch off ESP stage 1
switch on S mode
bring revs to 4200 rpm
drop clutch completely - ie do not leave it slightly engaged! - if you do, you smell burning stripping clutch!! - not good!!
Floor throttle and catch it at 7900 rpm for second.

I find this gives a tiny chirp of tyre but propels the car forward effectively.

You can do it at higher revs - but the fear of really hurting the car restrains me!

Went on Audi UK RS4 day last year - the message of the day was "on and off clutch - do NOT keep clutch even slightly depressed when on the throttle because the torque strips the clutch.

Nothing like smoking a 911 at the lights!!

Mark

[BigRick]

Got that, but I still think that burning a clutch that easily (with one bad start) is somewhat special on a car of that price. But maybe he was not on is first bad start after all.

The problem with this is that now that I know I can burn the clutch I'm a bit nervous to even try myself at it. It's a shame don't you think!

It's time to bring something like a launch button. This would deactivate the ESP, let you rev up to the right speed and make sure you don't burn the clutch (don't know how but I'm no engineer, I'll leave them some job :)) I think I heard of something like that on other cars.

[MR USER]

BigRic,
if you are familiar on how a clutch is made and how it works you should no be too surprised. the Clutch disks can only be of a certain size and thickness (a tractor clutch would not fit in such a nice car!).

Consider that they are not offering a manual box on the M5 because they cannot fir a clutch that can prove to be reliable for 100 000 Km unless operated by computer.

it's sad to say it but the worst part of the car is it's driver!!!

Let me give you an example, In the Ferrari GT (FIA GT championship) the gearbox is sequential. In short that menas that you have a clutch but you only use it when downshifting and when you move the car from stanstill. The disks of the clutch are made of carbon fiber and are slightly smaller than a CD! In other words you use it slightly wrong once and the cle clutch is gone!

It's an extreme but that's the way it is!

These are some of the reasons why if you want to smoke a cluthc in one start you can do it! You have enaugh power in an RS4 engine to accomplish this mission!

Audi driving instructore are raccomending to use the clutch as I previously described as this does not leave space to any mistake and the engine at idle does not have enough torque to damage either the clutch or the transmission.

To conclude the RS4 I've seen smoking the clutch in one start had 300 km on the clock and I guess you can call it new!

[BigRick]

Thanks Mr User for all the info... but now I'm really scared. Now even a civic will be able to smoke me at a red light :doh:

[MR USER]

Ha Ha,
Do not be scared, if you do it well and you get a hang of it is not so slow....

[BigRick]

Originally posted by MR USER
Ha Ha,
Do not be scared, if you do it well and you get a hang of it is not so slow....

That means that I need practice but practicing might burn the clutch...
But I'm more or less joking about all that. I think I know how to handle the clutch. The point is more that we are more and more facing powerful engine that can destroy the clutch easily. That's why I think the future is more promising for DSG or even Automatic transmissions like the one on some MB (you know that 7 speed auto transmission)

Still, thanks for your advice I'll take extra care when smoking other cars.

:cheers:

[ghostsnake]

Sorry Bigrick I don't agree with that I find that there just going to make stronger gear boxes that can handle that kind of power the big problem is that its 4 wheel drive. I think an RS4 can handle the clutch dropping. Just dont over rev it.

[BigRick]

Maybe you're right, but I'll let you try that on your own :), no offense. It's just that I like the car the way it is right now, not with a burned clutch or a broken transmission.

Until someone can certify that I won't break anything doing this I won't try myself. In fact, we don't really need to do this to smoke most of the other cars on the road so why do it!?

[ghostsnake]

NONO I agree dont do it on ur car i just remember my brother launching his car at 2 thousand RPM and it worked really well and there weren't any problems. We don't need to do it but its just a cool way to launch a little spin action and for Audi's the four wheel drive method is sick cause the wheels just dig into the ground and theres just a flat take off. Anways just curious if u ever to want to do it try at low RPM like 1.5 -2.0 and then go to a max of maybe 3.5 thats of coarse once you've broken the car in.

[MR USER]

YOu know what? I'll try that myself but not on my car....
I'll be with Audy on the Nordschleife in November.... Using one of their car will be much less painful than doing the testing on mine!:applause: :thumb: :applause:

[BigRick]

Originally posted by MR USER
YOu know what? I'll try that myself but not on my car....
I'll be with Audy on the Nordschleife in November.... Using one of their car will be much less painful than doing the testing on mine!:applause: :thumb: :applause:

That's an excelent idea, keep us posted when you have the results. :thumb:

[Leadfoot]

Guys,

The car's clutch is a lot stronger than that. It would take repeated dropping the clutch at max revs before the clutch would go.

Mr User, when at the ring try as many standing starts as you can and tell us how many it took to burn the clutch. :D Then we'll all know how many is safe.:thumb:

[IulianUM]

I think that the safest method is MR USER one (and is quick too).

I was on a track near Madrid in mid July an one of the Audi drivers , a woman , launched one , the car spin all wheels and seemed to "jump" at speed , and she didn´t rev it up too much before the "jump". No white smoke but on the wheels .:D

[andreasm]

I have found a video from someone who released the clutch at 3500 rpm:

http://videos.streetfire.net/category/Audi/0/739fd89d-8e82-4aa9-b522-982501284aff.htm

[Fab]

The ESP lights all the way :king:

[BigRick]

For the record the ESP light is blinking because first stage is disabled not because it's being used at all.

Here are a couple of clarification as many think that the blinking light is a sign of the system being used.

One tap on the ESP button = removing first stage ESP or ASR (blinking light)
Push & hold for 3 secs = ESP completely off (light always on)

ASR = Anti Slip Regulation System, when accelerating this will prevent the wheels from spinning by adjusting engine power to the grip available... This is why you should disable this function when launching the car. This is also what is causing that double gripping action that some were reporting when shifting the second gear at full throttle.

EDL = Electronic Differential Lock, This is more linked to the way Quattro works in relation with ABS (this feature cannot be turned off)

ESP = Electronic Stability Program, this is the feature that will break a wheel if the system senses that the direction you're pointing the wheels differ from the direction of the car (mostly understeering with an RS4)

ABS, ok everyone knows this one, just keep in mind that it cannot be turned off (unless you remove some fuse) and that this system is used by all others to monitor what is going on.

That's short summary but will surely help many to better understand what is going on!

[Goldorak]

Originally posted by BigRick
ESP = Electronic Stability Program, this is the feature that will break a wheel if the system senses that the direction you're pointing the wheels differ from the direction of the car (mostly understeering with an RS4)

Ouch, that could get expensive.:deal: :D

[IulianUM]

BigRick good explanation .:applause:

If I remember correctly the ASR works as if you lift the foot of the gas , annoying on the track but maybe good on the road .
The ESP is not intrusive , very good , and on the Rs4 is very easy to slide the tail to help in the turns even with the ESP on and it not entering in action . (always on a track , for me it is not fun to scare people)

Actually a fun car .:rs4addict

[BigRick]

Yes ASR is actually as if you were lifting the foot from the gas... This can get annoying even on the road when you try to launch the car. (OK, I agree with you this should be reserved for the track but we all know that we still do it on the road)

And after reading a couple of post about the double clutch effect I started to wonder if this was not linked to the ASR and from my experiments it is.

So if you plan on launching remember to tap the ESP button once.

IulianUM, you're right. The ESP only intervenes when it's really time for it to. It's not like some other cars when you cannot really "control" the car the way you want.


And I absolutely agree with your mindset: It's really not fun to scare people on the road and that car can surely scare people :king:

cheers

[CezarRS4]

My God people !!! This car has DTM components !!

I have 7800 KM i i did the 8250 RPM and off a lot of times and it's ok. At first there were some ugly smells but now it's ok.
It depende who are you racing with : very good launch is with 4300- 4400 RPM but explosive in in the limiter but take the foot off completely !!
Conti's are good for launc because they spin imediately , i have pirelli and it gives me good grip and if i don't spin i slip the clutch !!
That's about it : for no problems go for 4300 RPM and you'l be surprised !

LOVE FOR RS4

[BigRick]

I must admit your balls are bigger than mine!!! I would never had attempted a launch at 8000rpm:revs:

thanks for trying it for us, now we know it's possible :jlol:

Cheers

[Fab]

:applause:

[niclas]

hehe it´s no problem..6-7000 just get of the clutch.You have to is you want to feel the speed in the car. you have to work hard if you want it to go under 5sec to 100km..And if it breaks just call the seller and ask what kind of junk you just spend your last 80 000 euros on.(if you have a garanti).

Nic (ferrari challenge driver)

[craiglieberman]

Actually, it depends.

On a sticky race track, I did several 5500 rpm launches, no problem. Tiny bit of spin, but we were gone.

On the street, I aim for 4500 rpm.

The key with AWD cars is this:

If the tires don't slip, either the tranny/diff is taking the abuse or the clutch is (if you're slipping it)

In an environment where traction is superb, there's a chance the cluthc WILL slip. After about 5 bad launches (with a bad driver, aggressive clutch slip), I saw an RS4 clutch die.

Bottom line, you'd rather have wheel spin than anything else in an AWD car.

[niclas]

Jepp

I agree 100% and if you do 5 bad starts as you say its must be a bad driver and you should cont in a new cluth in your budget. I dident bruogt upp that i only have driven my car on winter tires and dont have mutch grip..should be fun to try it wivth pirelli slicks on a track:incar: but it will take some months in this cold contry.

[CezarRS4]

May i mention that in the 4700 RPM launch in this weather ( 0 to max 10 degrees celcius ) i got 4.12 sec from o - 62 MPH or 0 to 100 KM/H an d 400 meters in 12.33 sec at 179 km / h . I believe in the summer i will go up a little ! In cold weather the start is better because you get the wheelspin you need for a good run !!
Best launch is with continental tires not with Pirelli because the have less grip then Pirelli !

When you slip the clutch the smeel is pretty bad so you should not try again and drive a little so it cools down !!
Good luck for you all happy RS4 owners !! :rs4kiss:

[Fab]

May i mention that in the 4700 RPM launch in this weather ( 0 to max 10 degrees celcius ) i got 4.12 sec from o - 62 MPH or 0 to 100 KM/H an d 400 meters in 12.33 sec at 179 km / h . I believe in the summer i will go up a little ! In cold weather the start is better because you get the wheelspin you need for a good run !!
Best launch is with continental tires not with Pirelli because the have less grip then Pirelli !

When you slip the clutch the smeel is pretty bad so you should not try again and drive a little so it cools down !!
Good luck for you all happy RS4 owners !! :rs4kiss:

impressive numbers :bigeyes:

did you get the chrono by "hand" or with electronic sensors ? As it may be slightly polluted when hand made... But anyway great numbers. I will try and hope I don't burn my clutch :confused:

[CezarRS4]

It was made with an accelerometer !! Best one from Beltronics !!

Don't do more then 2 launches as the clutch will start to slip !

In fact the third time i got the best numbers !

Good luck :thumb: