Future Audi TTs

[chewym]

Check out this link. Very interesting informaiton. The most interesting is a 350 hp turbocharged 2.5 liter 5 cylinder inline engine based on the North American Jetta engine. That engine has the same bore and stroke as of the Gallardo V-10, Audi S8 cylinder heads to be used for the Audi TTRS version.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2718128

[Iceman]

Originally posted by chewym
That engine has the same bore and stroke as of the Gallardo V-10
And is developed bij the same man, he developed both the Lambo 5.0 V10 and the VW 2.5 liter R5 engine that use also one alloy Lambo cylinderhead.

Hans.

[chewym]

Originally posted by Iceman
And is developed bij the same man, he developed both the Lambo 5.0 V10 and the VW 2.5 liter R5 engine that use also one alloy Lambo cylinderhead.

Hans.

The cylinder head is supposed to be from the Lamborghini, but it is definately modified to a certain degree. (I think it is)

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9397/volkswagen-jetta-page3.html

Have you heard about the future TT RS using a turbocharged version of that engine with 350 hp?

[Iceman]

Originally posted by chewym
Have you heard about the future TT RS using a turbocharged version of that engine with 350 hp?
Future will tell i'm working on it, allmost 2 year now i try to convince Herr Dr. Martin Winterkorn to let the 5 cylinder turbo engine return tranverse in the Audi TT and A3 because of the historic value of the 5 cylinder engine.
And it look like it start to work because the corridor talk is that Audi have gave the green light for development last May.
I have opt for 3 engine's by Herr Dr. Martin Winterkorn.

1) R5 2.5/2.6 litre FSI K03 turbo 280 hp.
2) R5 2.5/2.6 liter FSI K04 turbo 350 hp.
3) R5 2.5 litre CR TDI 220 hp.

I will settle for one though :D even the TDI one.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

b
Originally posted by Iceman
Future will tell i'm working on it, allmost 2 year now i try to convince Herr Dr. Martin Winterkorn to let the 5 cylinder turbo engine return tranverse in the Audi TT and A3 because of the historic value of the 5 cylinder engine.
And it look like it start to work because the corridor talk is that Audi have gave the green light for development last May.
I have opt for 3 engine's by Herr Dr. Martin Winterkorn.

1) R5 2.5/2.6 litre FSI K03 turbo 280 hp.
2) R5 2.5/2.6 liter FSI K04 turbo 350 hp.
3) R5 2.5 litre CR TDI 220 hp.

I will settle for one though :D even the TDI one.

Hans.

Hans,

What's the chance of one of these engines making it into the TT sometime next year? Any one of the petrol engines will do.

By the way this does not mean that I dislike diesels, it just if I was to go for a diesel in a TT it would have to have a lot more than the possible 220hp you reckon on. Something in the range of 260hp and 400ft/lb of torque, lovely.

I know this will never happen, but I think the TT would have been better to have had a mid-engined setup. This was have given the TT with the Haldex system a 15%/85% split to the rear and a much better weight balance. The only sacrifice would have been rear seat and a real rival to the Cayman/Boxster. This would have left the A5 to complete with the 3series Coupe instead of both model doing this.

What do you think?

Could this have been considered and this might have been the reason why Porsche bought extra shares in VAG to protect it's own model range?

[Iceman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
Hans,
What's the chance of one of these engines making it into the TT sometime next year? Any one of the petrol engines will do.
Could this have been considered and this might have been the reason why Porsche bought extra shares in VAG to protect it's own model range?
The development of the 5 cylinder FSI turbo engine will take 16-24 months time.
The only considered thing for the TT was to give it a longitudinal engine layout.
But that changed after the green light was given for the A5 Coupe.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Iceman
The development of the 5 cylinder FSI turbo engine will take 16-24 months time.
The only considered thing for the TT was to give it a longitudinal engine layout.
But that changed after the green light was given for the A5 Coupe.

Hans.

You must admit that this would have given the TT an advantage over the Z4 and be a more fitting junior to the R8 being of the same setup.

These engines you are purposing make me wonder there does this leave the S3 engine for the TT, a none starter and will there be a 3.6L for the RS version or will it be the 2.5 R5. I am wondering will this engine even make it into the TT or is it really being considered for the A4, less weight better noise, a better choice to complete with the current 3series and very tuneable.

[Iceman]

The 5 cylinder engine will only be for transeverse use in the TT and A3 wenn it comes.

Futher the TT line-up will go look like this at the moment if you take all corridor talks and rumours serious.

TT 1.8T FSI ± 180 hp base model ( 2006-2007 ?).
TT 2.0T FSI 200 hp (in production)
TT 2.0T FSI Quattro 200-220 hp (begin 2007)
TT 3.2 VR6 Quattro 250 hp (in production)
TT QS (Quattro sport) ? K04 2.0T FSI 260 hp. (2006-2007 ?)
TT-S ? looks like 302 hp VR6 FSI engine (under testing)
TT-R ? look like 350 hp R5 FSI turbo (2008 ?)

Hans.

[Lateknight]

I, more than just about anyone, would love to see the return of a sporting 5 cylinder Audi. :revs:

Unfortunately I just can't see Audi justifying it.
Theres already a wealth of engines they have yet to release (higher output 2.0Ts / 3.6 v6 / and whatever the Twincharger programme brings).
Its well known that there is a lot of cost cutting going on in the Volkswagen Group at the moment. To continue to build lots of different low volume engines, does not seem to make much sense IMO.
No other manufacturer has had or has developed so many different engine types;
3cyl petrol & diesel, 4 cyl pet' & dies', 5cyl pet' & dies', V5 petrol, Straight 6 pet' & dies', VR6 petrol, V6 pet' & dies', V8 pet' & dies', W8 petrol, V10 pet' & dies' and finally w12 (& W16).
That lot must have surely cost way too much to develop.
Thats just my opinion from an economic point of view. :boring:

Just on another point. 350ps is a hell of a jump up from 150ps with 'just' turbocharging.
Thats going from (a rather pathetic) 60ps/Litre to 140ps/Litre. Has any other production engine had a 233% increase by forced induction?
Could it be a twin charger engine?? :bow:

Thoughts :ttaddict:

[Iceman]

Originally posted by Lateknight
Just on another point. 350ps is a hell of a jump up from 150ps with 'just' turbocharging.
Thats going from (a rather pathetic) 60ps/Litre to 140ps/Litre. Has any other production engine had a 233% increase by forced induction?
Could it be a twin charger engine?? :bow:

Thoughts :ttaddict:
Not realy, the old 2.2 litre RS2 5 cylinder turbo engine had 315 hp.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Iceman
The 5 cylinder engine will only be for transeverse use in the TT and A3 wenn it comes.

Futher the TT line-up will go look like this at the moment if you take all corridor talks and rumours serious.

TT 1.8T FSI ± 180 hp base model ( 2006-2007 ?).
TT 2.0T FSI 200 hp (in production)
TT 2.0T FSI Quattro 200-220 hp (begin 2007)
TT 3.2 VR6 Quattro 250 hp (in production)
TT QS (Quattro sport) ? K04 2.0T FSI 260 hp. (2006-2007 ?)
TT-S ? looks like 302 hp VR6 FSI engine (under testing)
TT-R ? look like 350 hp R5 FSI turbo (2008 ?)

Hans.

Hans,

When you state TT-QS (Quattro Sport), does this mean that like the old model, the rear seats will be removed and with a possible rear brace. Or was this only added to the old model to improve it. I hope the TT-QS loses none of the luxuries that the rest of the range has because if so I will not be a customer for it. I like the sound of the TT-S especially if it continues the styling policy for the S-models eg. four exhaust pipes. My big concern is with a 3.6L engine it will be very nose heavy, something the last model had a problem with.

I see a problem with this engine line up. There is three engine range, four possibly five if you include two diesels.

Three 4 cylinder engines.
Two VR6 engines.
One 5 cylinder engine.
One 4 cylinder diesel and a possible VR6 diesel.

This does sound like a lot of engine options. If you are right would it not be wisher to have a just a 4 and 5 cylinders option and drop the VR6 engine altogether. Leave this for the Passat with the 5 cylinder.

I will be putting my name drop for this 5 cylinder model even if there is no date for it, because I loved the sound of the old Quattro sport and the thought of owning something the like of this gives you goosebumps.:love:

[Lateknight]

Originally posted by Iceman
Not realy, the old 2.2 litre RS2 5 cylinder turbo engine had 315 hp.

Hans.

Good point. Well made.

Still a little bit short though on the percentage increase from the base engine -170ps 2.3 20v is closest (from 90/coupe) to 315ps 2.2 is only 185%.

That engine also was - shall we say - was a bit peaky !!
< 4000rpm = nothing special :rolleyes:
4000rpm+ = Jesus, what just happened. :king:

I know that was 11/12 years ago and engine technology has come a long way since (and very definately a long way to go yet). I would just be surprised, thats all.
(be a hell of a nice surprise though :love: )

[Lateknight]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
Hans,

I will be putting my name drop for this 5 cylinder model even if there is no date for it, because I loved the sound of the old Quattro sport and the thought of owning something the like of this gives you goosebumps.:love:

IMO there is no better engine sound (yep including v12)

The Bmw M5 makes a gorgeous noise at about 5-7k rpm. I know its a V10 but it does have an Audi-esque warble at that engine speed.
I even like the Focus ST just purely of the noise it makes - I need some serious help!!! :cry:

[Iceman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
Hans,

When you state TT-QS (Quattro Sport), does this mean that like the old model, the rear seats will be removed and with a possible rear brace.
If you are right would it not be wisher to have a just a 4 and 5 cylinders option and drop the VR6 engine altogether.
The new TT QS ? (still not confirmed) will have a full interior but with RS4 style sportseats.
Further there has been a rumour that Audi was planing to drop the VR6 engine with in a few years.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Iceman
The new TT QS ? (still not confirmed) will have a full interior but with RS4 style sportseats.
Further there has been a rumour that Audi was planing to drop the VR6 engine with in a few years.

Hans.

I like the thought of having the full interior, but those RS4 seats are a it on the tight side for me.

As for Audi dropping the VR6 engine, it's understandable, no model needs that many engines. I couldn't understand why use the R5 2.5L engine once (TT-RS) when the engine would have so much potential, the fact that it's a 5 cylinder and 2.5L would mean it's will produce quite a bit of torque.

I'm at a lose why they wouldn't use it in the others eg. A4/5, A6, A8 and Q7.

P.S.
I noticed that there is no inclution for the new VW TSi engines, are they only going to see service in the VW brand?

[DjiT]

Hi eveybody,

maybe some of you are already posting in this other forum ?

For the others, it looks like the same info are circulating among the few "insiders" sharing some interest in the TT's future:

2.5T for MKII TT (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2718128)

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Lateknight
Just on another point. 350ps is a hell of a jump up from 150ps with 'just' turbocharging.
Thats going from (a rather pathetic) 60ps/Litre to 140ps/Litre. Has any other production engine had a 233% increase by forced induction?
Could it be a twin charger engine?? :bow:

Thoughts :ttaddict:

The old TT Sport had 237hp unit from 1.8L which is 131.7hp per litre. Not bad from old technology, so an up-to-date engine should have no problem producing 140hp per litre.

Just look at what the EVO can produce from 2Litres (345hp) and more that 172.5hp per litre.

Getting back on to the subject at hand, there is a lot of talk in differing forums all about this 2.5R5 engine, so either the same people for talking on all these forums or the info is being released to lots of people. Is this engine common knowledge because until Iceman spoke about I for one knew nothing about it. As yet no UK magazine hasn't wrote anything.

[Lateknight]

Although there does not appear to be any immediate plans for Audi Tsi, I dont doubt that this engine technology will eventually see service in a number of forthcoming models.
Turbocharging or supercharging appears to be the only way of reducing emissions in hand with smaller engine capacities.

example of;

VW Golf 2.3 V5 170ps = 211g/km co2

VW Golf 1.4 Tsi 170ps = 170g/km co2

As long as VW do not experience catastrophic failures of these engines in the next 6-8 months, this will be seen on other engine sizes.


I hope all the rumours about a blown R5 engine ARE true.
For me the VR6 can die a quiet death (it might just do that for the above enviromental reason), If this engine were to only replace it.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Lateknight
Although there does not appear to be any immediate plans for Audi Tsi, I dont doubt that this engine technology will eventually see service in a number of forthcoming models.
Turbocharging or supercharging appears to be the only way of reducing emissions in hand with smaller engine capacities.

As long as VW do not experience catastrophic failures of these engines in the next 6-8 months, this will be seen on other engine sizes.

I hope all the rumours about a blown R5 engine ARE true.
For me the VR6 can die a quiet death (it might just do that for the above environmental reason), If this engine were to only replace it.

I think this technology will stay solely with VW for a couple of years. Though I have no doubt that Audi are developing this technology for their own use, possibly not with a 1.4L engine but something bigger say 1.8L.

The thing is diesel are not really that environmentally friendly as everyone thinks, small petrol engine produce emissions less harmful than diesels. The big goal of this technology is the fuel efficiency compared to the power and the extra weight saving due to the size of engine difference.

Audi needs this technology more than VW, in the VAG Group, Audi is seen as the sporty option, the brand that will take the fight to BMW and win. We know that the quattro system can overcome any shortfalls in the chassis design, just look at the RS4, so will know the new A4/5 based models will preform perfectly in quattro form.

This 4"-6" move rearward in engine placement is a welcome addition to aid the handling, but a reduction in the front end weight will also be needed to combat the advantage rwd has over fwd in the ability to become the driver's choice. We all know it's possible, look at the Focus ST, Civic Type-R and the Mini, all great driver's cars, but with exception of the Focus all the others are a compromise in ride quality, something Audi can't afford to allow to happen this time round.

I see this technology replacing the larger engines in fwd form eg. the 2.4L and 3.2L both of which suffer over the lesser engined models when it comes to balance and turn-in. You will possibly see the 1.6TSi replacing the 2.4L and the 1.8-2.0TSi replacing the 3.2L.

BMW have when the twin turbo route, lets hope VAG win not only the drivers but the technology race with it's super/turbocharged alternative.

[Leadfoot]

:confused: what happen there then.

[Lateknight]

Originally posted by Leadfoot


This 4"-6" move rearward in engine placement is a welcome addition to aid the handling, ......

Anybody aware of how they have planned to do this on future longitudinal engined models ??

I know the W12 engined Bentley/A8's have a seperate front diff immediately behind the engine. Is this a similar system ??

(still puts almost all the engine ahead of the front wheels though)

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Lateknight
Anybody aware of how they have planned to do this on future longitudinal engined models ??

I know the W12 engined Bentley/A8's have a seperate front diff immediately behind the engine. Is this a similar system ??

(still puts almost all the engine ahead of the front wheels though)

Lateknight,

To the best of my knowledge the new longitudinal engined models will be using a similar system as one in the Q7.

I hope this explains it better.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/photos.cfm/photoid/3050817.001/pageview/photo/photo/1173/page/3/size/regular/country/gcf/audi/audi-q7 :thumb: