From RS 6 to S6 [Archive] - RS6.com | International Community

Benman

July 20th, 2006, 18:55

Originally posted by chewym
I have found that on most auto forums, people that have an older car and a new version of their car is coming out, the sometimes "hate" on the new car to "protect" their older car. I think that the S6 will be fine.

Excellent point.

Originally posted by AndyBG

The thing i want to point out here is that this car is somehow forgoten here, maybe overlooked, i don't now, we are spending ALOT more space discusing other car brands and ''weting'' over some, IMHO, stupid cars, this is performance Audi, it's modern, well built has that FANTASTIC engine and we don't like it.

Maybe i am the only one...

Excellent, excellent point.

I'm guilty of both. With that said, I am not getting the new S6. Reasons:

1: My RS 6 has 24 months to go and then it is paid off 100%!
2: New S6 is 300lbs heavier than my RS 6.
3: The new S6 make less hp and torque than my RS 6 and therefor slower (not by much).
4: Last and least importantly, it gets even worse fuel economy.

The new S6 is great and all, but it's hardly a RS 6 replacement. The new S6 is a S6 replacement.

Ben:addict:

QuattroFun

July 20th, 2006, 19:00

Hmm, have not myself driven the new S6 yet, but a friend of mine has been on board as a passenger (not driven) and his reports - incidentally not tainted by car mags - is strikingly similar to want to read in the mags.

So yes, the new S6 is probably a very good car just as you would expect. However, it is apparently less sporty and frankly less special than you would image and hope for and not Audi's ultimate RS top gun in the segment and this is a selective audience remember and - secondly - the car is so new that hardly any of us have had the chance to drive it ourselves yet. Indeed, the new A6 4.2 V8 FSI 350PS is also a good car (I have myself driven the the 335PS non-FSI version). Yet, it never seriously crossed my mind to write about it here or indeed buy one.

Erik

July 20th, 2006, 19:32

Here I am :D

http://www.saab4fun.com/upload/uppladd/5367Erik.jpg

AndyBG

July 20th, 2006, 21:01

So, Erik, what ''commander in chief'' of this forum says about new C6 S6, how does it perform?

Erik

July 20th, 2006, 21:07

I only drove it for a short while.

A VERY short conclusion. If you're coming from an RS6 you will notice:

1) Car is much more modern inside.

2) The car is not as fast. It is NOT an Audi A6 with a Gallardo engine, at least you will never notice it.

It's an Autobahn cruiser, and a very good one. It is not a sports car.

The LEDs are very cool. :0:

SoCal

July 20th, 2006, 21:09

Actually, we've been considering the new S6 as an addition to our little stable. The S8 and S6 are both on the short list we are considering for our next car, though in addition to and not as a replacement for our current RS6.

The new S6 looks like a fabulous car, especially the engine. Not a match for an RS car, but then it's not supposed to be. A good compromise between family cruiser and performance. My wife is quite excited about checking it out when they arrive in a few months.

My only hesitation about the new S6 is that the suspension from initial reports may be quite unfriendly for those of us who drive a lot on roads that are less than ideal -- that is, who live outside of Germany. The S6 has a fairly taught conventional suspension, good for handling smooth roads but very harsh on rough or uneven pavement or over potholes. Note that the S8 will have an adjustable air suspension that may be more compliant. The RS4 of course has the DRC inherited from the RS6, which also allows a broader mix of comfort and performance.

So, why is the new S6 the Rodney Dangerfield of new, performance Audis? I agree it's probably a combination of RS4's large shadow, S8 near-contemporaneous launch, and styling that is more stealthy than the current market seems to want from it's performance cars. Also, the S6 is literally in the middle of the pack - mid-size, neither A nor RS, sporty but not truly sporting, expensive but not insane. If anything, all the hype over the Lambo-derived engine has probably raised expectations higher than would be warranted for an S6 (as opposed to RS6), at least among the automotive press. It's a car to please many, not to inspire a few.

We'll have to see what happens when the car finally arrives. Should be a sleeper. If lack of hype keeps the prices down, even better.

chewym

July 21st, 2006, 02:29

I also think that because the way Audi positions its cars, the S6 should compared to the BMW 550i and the newer MB E550. Those two cars with V-8 make less horsepower nad torque (BMW 360hp and 360 pounds of torque) (MB 382hp 391 lb-ft) Compared with those two cars the S6 is much sportier but a bit more expensive. In a comparison test with those two cars the S6 would probably win. When the S6 is compared with the M5 and E63, it is the least sporty car in that group. That puts the S6 with no direct competition which might make it seem forgotten to the press and the automotive community. I also agree because the RS4 has been so impressive, it has taken most of attention of people who are passionate about high performance Audis.

SoCal

July 21st, 2006, 02:33

Originally posted by chewym
I also think that because the way Audi positions its cars, the S6 should compared to the BMW 550i and the newer MB E550. Those two cars with V-8 make less horsepower nad torque (BMW 360hp and 360 pounds of torque) (MB 382hp 391 lb-ft) Compared with those two cars the S6 is much sportier but a bit more expensive. In a comparison test with those two cars the S6 would probably win. When the S6 is compared with the M5 and E63, it is the least sporty car in that group. That puts the S6 with no direct competition which might make it seem forgotten to the press and the automotive community.

Good point. Audi's tiering of A, S and RS often doesn't quite match up with the direct competition, since BMW and MB both have usually several different engine types in most cars and a single M/AMG level above. And the RS cars (thankfully) are a relative rarity, which puts more incentive on the automotive press to compare the S models to the top-line sportier competition.

Kev.S

July 21st, 2006, 10:02

The new S6 is not an RS6 replacement. I loved my old 4.2 S6, but once the RS6 appeared and I test drove one, the S6 was very much a second best.

I love my RS6, but as it nears the end of its warranty, the worries of how much replacement parts would cost should the inevitable happen to suspension or gearbox, coupled with the impending cost or replaceing brakes, tyres, and a cambelt change make a change of vehicle advisable. If I got an S6, sooner or later it would be the second best 6 and I'd want the new RS6, probably with a body shape past its sell-by date.

This doesn't leave much to choose from. I test drove the M5 and found it horrible. To describe the looks from the outside as vial, doesn't leave a suitable adjective to describe the inside. Merc dealers in this country are dreadful and I've got used to being treated as a valuable customer by the three Audi dealers I've had cars from. We also have more than our fair shade of rain in the NW UK, so 4wd is a practical must.

I went down the S8 route for a number of reasons. Firstly, its not going to be outdone by an RS8 and will continue to be the 'latest body shape' for a number of years. Secondly, most of my distance miles are motorway and I reckon very little can compare with it there. My RS6 is quite uncomfortable on local roads, which have been blighted by substandard repairs for years and had I been the proud owner of a set of false teeth, would have spent considerable time picking them up out of the floor wells. I suspect that the suspension of the S8 will cope with these roads better. I can live with the performance drop, as a couple of a tenths of a second only really matters on the race track and in the pub! Passengers and police would soon be complaining if I maxed the RS6 on public roads. The S8 is also loaded to the roof with toys and to spec an S6 to this level would actually cost the same as the S8 has, with the generous deal the dealer has given me for an early order. (In actuallity, an A8 4.2 diesel specced to the same level would have cost more!)

Benman

July 21st, 2006, 17:14

Originally posted by Kev.S
I love my RS6, but as it nears the end of its warranty, the worries of how much replacement parts would cost should the inevitable happen to suspension or gearbox, coupled with the impending cost or replaceing brakes, tyres, and a cambelt change make a change of vehicle advisable.

I'm in that exact boat. But economically, it makes far more sense for me to keep the RS 6 than to trade for a S8/new RS 6. Why? I have one year left on the warranty, and two years left of payments, so that puts me one year out in the cold before the car is all paid off. However, once the car is paid off, despite the expensive maintenance, it will be much cheaper to shell out the occasional $3K here, $4K there, than have to pay $865.00 every single month. And I suspect most RS 6 owners have higher payments yet!

Getting an S8/RS 6 will likey cost $100K+ Stateside, and even with a huge down payment, I'd be looking at $1000.00+ monthly payments. That hardly gives me peice of mind (having "free" maintenance). I could afford to pay $6K every year in maintenance costs (which I most certainly don't think I will) and still be way ahead of the game...

Originally posted by Kev.S

I went down the S8 route for a number of reasons. Firstly...

Now those reasons are hard to argue with.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

audirs6.ch

July 21st, 2006, 18:12

After the test drive I'm quite sure to buy an S6. It was absolutely incredible. I haven't seen a nicer Audi yet.

Power:

More than enough, in low speeds to about 50mph the S6 feels quicker than the beast, but I'm not sure whether it is.

Sound:

Incredible! Very quiet and pleased when you're cruising along, but loud and absolutely amazing if you push it, like a Gallardo ;) I cannot decide if a beast or a S6 sounds better.

I've made two vids with my mobile phone, if you're interested in..

Iceman

July 21st, 2006, 19:13

Originally posted by audirs6.ch
Power:

More than enough, in low speeds to about 50mph the S6 feels quicker than the beast, but I'm not sure whether it is.

It's very fast though i can assure you.

Hans.

AndyBG

July 21st, 2006, 20:13

Originally posted by audirs6.ch
After the test drive I'm quite sure to buy an S6. It was absolutely incredible. I haven't seen a nicer Audi yet.

Power:

More than enough, in low speeds to about 50mph the S6 feels quicker than the beast, but I'm not sure whether it is.

Sound:

Incredible! Very quiet and pleased when you're cruising along, but loud and absolutely amazing if you push it, like a Gallardo ;) I cannot decide if a beast or a S6 sounds better.

I've made two vids with my mobile phone, if you're interested in..

There you have it, ''audirs6.ch'' even have the C5 RS 6 yet he likes new C6 S6, give this car a chance, its GREAT!

How do youliked new 6 speed tiptronic, its mutch smoother then old 5 speed.

Even manuall mode could be actualy used.

What do you think?

audirs6.ch

July 21st, 2006, 21:09

At first: I haven't a RS6 yet, but for audirs6.ch we drove 3 different ones ;)

I like the new tiptronic gearbox in the S6, I often drove in manuall mode. For me, it's better than a 6speed manuall gearbox, it's much more comfortable, even in manuall mode. But it's reactions are much quicker then with the 5 speed tiptronic.

http://www.audirs6.ch/pics/s6.jpg

AndyBG

July 22nd, 2006, 03:06

Originally posted by audirs6.ch
At first: I haven't a RS6 yet, but for audirs6.ch we drove 3 different ones ;)

Sorry for that mis-understanding, i don't why, but i was sure you are owner of ''the beast''.

New tiptronics are way mutch better than the old one.

SoCal

July 24th, 2006, 06:56

Originally posted by AndyBG
New tiptronics are way mutch better than the old one.

What are technical details on new tip vs. old one, besides number of gears?

Thanks in advance.

AndyBG

July 24th, 2006, 11:57

Originally posted by SoCal
What are technical details on new tip vs. old one, besides number of gears?

Thanks in advance.

In tehnical point of view, I DON'T HAVE A CLUE what they did to it, but just adding one more ''speed'' (5 vs 6) is improvement.

In practice ''6 speeder'' feels MUTCH more responsive and smoother, is that gained just with adding one more ''speed' and some software ''tunning'', or there was some more work involved, i don't now.

Maybe someone else with some more info can speakout.

ott

July 27th, 2006, 11:54

I was driving on autobahn near Ingolstadt few weeks ago and new S6 appeared to my rear view mirrors. It'easy to spot due to those new daytime running lights, which do look really cool IMO.

Anyway, we were doing both for several km about 110-120 kmh due to speed restriction and traffic. Then speed limit is about to end and the road was empty. He was appr. 50 m. behind me on left line and I was cruising on 5-th on middle line. I decided to wait, till restriction ends, but suddenly noticed that he was already accelerating full speed and gaining on me fast. By the time when I managed to change 2 gears down into 3-rd, he was already flying past and put some 100-150 m. gap between us. Then up to 200kmh the gap stayed the same and past 200 kmh I was gaining on him little. We went up to 250 kmh (indicated speed) and then had to slow down because of traffic. Some cars pulled between us, he managed to speed away and I didn't get another opportunity. He was alone in the car, I had passenger and trunk full of stuff, but don't know if that did influence the result in any way ? So new S6 is not much slower than RS6 in real world conditions.

Edit: 250 kmh indicated speed means in case of my car appr. 235 kmh real speed, such error I have measured with GPS earlier.

AndyBG

July 27th, 2006, 15:22

First ''close encounter'' of the C5 RS 6 and C6 S6...

QuattroFun

July 29th, 2006, 20:32

Interesting - so the S6 is fast but (too) civilised it seems.

Looking ahead at the post-RS4 time, my problem is this: buy the very civilised and luxury-tilted S8 with only 450PS naturally aspirated or wait for the rawer & pulse-lifting but inevitably less special (not to be confused with rarity) twin-turbo 550PS RS6. Even with all its technical marvel, intakes, bumpers, flared arches, carbon fibre trim and Valcona leather, the RS6 is really just a A6 much like the RS4 is just a A4. I suspect that the forthcoming S7 will not be at dealers during this decade.

:confused:

chewym

July 30th, 2006, 05:58

Has it been confirmed that the RS6 will have a twin turbo version of the 5.2 liter V10? That would be the best possible engine for the RS6, with something like 575 hp and lots of torque (500+ lb-ft) that would crush the M5. However, it looks like a 520 hp 5.2 liter V10 seems more likely, that would be dissapointing. That would not compete well with the M5. A 5.5 liter naturally aspirated version would be better, but a twin turbo V10 would be the best.

QuattroFun

July 30th, 2006, 09:16

No, 550PS TT 5.2L V10 has not been officially confirmed for the RS6. However, German AMS is extremely well connected, has been right almost always before and they claim that the R8 will get a NA version of the 5.2L V10 with some 520PS through a higher engine speed than the 7000 rmp in the 450PS version in S8. For the RS6, they say that Audi has opted for the twin-turbo version with some 550PS. A light face-lift of the A6 is likely in summer 2007 and the RS6 should appear at end 2007 - maybe to be unveiled at next year's Frankfurt IAA auto show.

Qisha

August 4th, 2006, 08:41

Dear Friends,

to make the S6 even more exclusive, a new Option will be available as from today:

Carbon Optic Package:

-Air Inducts front Bumper completely Carbon
-Diffusor rear Bumper Carbon
-Spoiler Lip Trunk (only Sedan)

The package will sell for 1.900 Euro. Not cheap, but its not artificial, its real Carbon Fiber.

audirs6.ch

August 6th, 2006, 20:39

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear Friends,

to make the S6 even more exclusive, a new Option will be available as from today:

Carbon Optic Package:

-Air Inducts front Bumper completely Carbon
-Diffusor rear Bumper Carbon
-Spoiler Lip Trunk (only Sedan)

The package will sell for 1.900 Euro. Not cheap, but its not artificial, its real Carbon Fiber.

Got pics?

roozbeh007

August 10th, 2006, 06:47

I think not that many people talk about S6 because it came out the same time as RS4. the thing is RS4 is so good that people can't stop talking/asking about it. so there is no time for S6 to be discussed.

Iceman

August 10th, 2006, 07:01

Originally posted by roozbeh007
I think not that many people talk about S6 because it came out the same time as RS4. the thing is RS4 is so good that people can't stop talking/asking about it. so there is no time for S6 to be discussed.
I prever the new S6 over the RS4 24/7.

Hans.

roozbeh007

August 10th, 2006, 07:23

Originally posted by Iceman
I prever the new S6 over the RS4 24/7.

Hans.

you got to be kidding me man !!!

RS4 is the first Audi I see everybody are respecting. even bemmer guys take their hats off for RS4. how can you go for S6 over RS4? not that S6 is a bad car, but i just can't figure that out

QuattroFun

August 10th, 2006, 16:01

[QUOTE]Originally posted by roozbeh007
[B]you got to be kidding me man !!!

Each to their own - but cant helping feeling the same for some funny reason...:)

Leadfoot

August 12th, 2006, 23:23

Everyone who owns a S model Audi would deep down love to own a RS model instead, myself included. But unfortunately, not having the cash means it a S model for now. The S6 is no doubt an amazing car and quite possibly a better car an the present RS6, but like the last RS4 and the original RS2, these cars command cult statue and as such people possibly see them through rose coloured glasses.

The problem that the S6 has, is with the last model which was a very over priced car when compared to the much cheaper, faster and better looking S4, same engine, same power and a whole 8K cheaper, Audi already did a 4.2L V8 A6, why build a S6 with little more power. People are maybe judging it on Audi past efforts.

Luckily Audi this time round have ditched the V8 for a V10, distancing the S6 from the rest of the range, it's a whole 90hp more powerful which justify the price and with it's 40/60 torque split handles better than the rest of the A6 range and I bet it handles a lot better than the RS6.

The S6 will always be the Audi that is up there with the best of them, but will not receive the glory or recognition it deserves. Lets face it, it has already given the M5 a bloody nose in a resent fight in a German car mag. Now that's something the old RS6 had trouble doing. The real reason the S6 has been overlooked is the fact that both the S8 and the RS4 are much better than it, both handle better, ride better and possibly look better as well, and as such, the motoring press has largely overlooked it's qualities. My personnel gripe with the S6 is the same one I have with my own S4, ride quality. Why can Audi get the S8 and the RS4 spot on, but fail with the S6 and S4, get these two right and the names M3 and M5 will be discarded to the history books as the best sports/luxury cars in their class.

SoCal

August 16th, 2006, 04:14

Originally posted by Leadfoot
The S6 will always be the Audi that is up there with the best of them, but will not receive the glory or recognition it deserves. ...

...My personnel gripe with the S6 is the same one I have with my own S4, ride quality. Why can Audi get the S8 and the RS4 spot on, but fail with the S6 and S4....

True words.

Kev.S

August 16th, 2006, 10:09

Originally posted by Leadfoot
My personnel gripe with the S6 is the same one I have with my own S4, ride quality. Why can Audi get the S8 and the RS4 spot on, but fail with the S6 and S4, get these two right and the names M3 and M5 will be discarded to the history books as the best sports/luxury cars in their class.

I can't answer for the new S6, as I haven't driven one, but the ride quality on my S8 is great and although I've only had it for two days and have been too busy to drive it much, it is so much better than my RS6, without any discernable loss in handling at sensible speeds (it's not getting a thrashing till it's run in).

Leadfoot

August 16th, 2006, 23:12

Originally posted by Kev.S
I can't answer for the new S6, as I haven't driven one, but the ride quality on my S8 is great and although I've only had it for two days and have been too busy to drive it much, it is so much better than my RS6, without any discernable loss in handling at sensible speeds (it's not getting a thrashing till it's run in).

I know the old A6/RS6 was a smaller car the the A8/S8, but am I not right in thinking the there is little or no difference in size between your S8 and the current S6 and if anything your car is lighter. So I doubt there will be any drop in handling at all.

SoCal

August 16th, 2006, 23:29

Originally posted by Leadfoot
I know the old A6/RS6 was a smaller car the the A8/S8, but am I not right in thinking the there is little or no difference in size between your S8 and the current S6 and if anything your car is lighter. So I doubt there will be any drop in handling at all.
The suspension set up in the new S8 is much more advanced: dynamic air suspension with variable settings. So, should be comfy when wanted and sporty when needed.

The new S6 in contrast has a conventional steel suspension that is tuned stiffly for aggresive handling. According to the car mags in US and Europe whose reviewers have driven it, the S6 accordingly is great handling on smooth roads but offers a much harsher, unforgiving and almost jarring ride on pavement that is uneven or bumpy. I look forward to driving it when they come to the US to see how true that is.

The DRC on the RS4 and RS6 is a different mechanical approach altogether and, when it works (I'm one of the lucky RS6 owners with no complaints), offers a great tradeoff between urban comfort and on-demand aggressive handling.

Kev.S

August 16th, 2006, 23:49

Originally posted by Leadfoot
I know the old A6/RS6 was a smaller car the the A8/S8, but am I not right in thinking the there is little or no difference in size between your S8 and the current S6 and if anything your car is lighter. So I doubt there will be any drop in handling at all.

I've just had a look at the brochures and the S6 is 30mm narrower (wheelarch-wheelarch) and 43 mm shorter. The S8 is 20 kg heavier, but interestingly has less overhanging at the front, which may make a difference to turn-in.

SoCal's point about the suspension tuning will probably have a big relevence to UK owners, as our roards are bumpy and uneven. Interestingly, the S8's suspension was set up for British roads. (probably because they're so awful!!)

I'm off up to the Scottish Highlands in 2 weeks, so will have a much better idea of how the S8 compares to the RS6 after that.

QuattroFun

August 19th, 2006, 20:16

Yep, now I exactly know that Erik and the mags are talking about - great autobahn cruiser and not much more.

The S6 Avant looks great especially on the inside and is a real lift on the old RS6 and the engine & auto is nice and smooth, which admittedly partly disguises its real speed - but ride is in fact marginally worse than in my RS4 (with SS), the engine roar is nice on the outside but way too silent on the inside even in kickdown and the car is at the end of the day simply too slow for me to be satisfying.

Bring on the RS6 Avant and let it be a real monster in all respects:addict:

Leadfoot

August 19th, 2006, 21:09

Originally posted by Kev.S
SoCal's point about the suspension tuning will probably have a big relevence to UK owners, as our roards are bumpy and uneven. Interestingly, the S8's suspension was set up for British roads. (probably because they're so awful!!)

I'm off up to the Scottish Highlands in 2 weeks, so will have a much better idea of how the S8 compares to the RS6 after that.

It's interesting to hear that the S8's suspension was tuned for British roads, this proves that Audi are just as good at setting a car up as BMW and Mercedes, both of which have been praised repeatedly by UK magazine testers for their handling/ride set-ups while Audi have always be criticised for theirs. I only hope the Audi increase this trend on UK road test of set-ups to other models, because it's my one complaint I have with my car.

Talk is that the new TT, though it has been tested by Audi on UK roads, it's set-up was already sign off. Here's hoping the good reports from road-testers continue when they finally road test the car over here.:0:

It surprising that though only slightly longer and wider than the S6 it's also heavier, it being made solely from alloy. There is hardly any more toys on the S8 than the S6, do the S8 have double-glazing as standard, if so this might make up some of the difference.

AndyBG

August 23rd, 2006, 16:38

Originally posted by audirs6.ch
After the test drive I'm quite sure to buy an S6. It was absolutely incredible. I haven't seen a nicer Audi yet....

So, is definitive desicion taken?

Or anybody else...

Do we have first ''official'' order on RS6.COM ?

irondad

September 13th, 2006, 04:12

I am the proud owner of a 2002 S6 Avant, I'm a family guy, very busy, very active, and just in love with my wagon.
I'm also new to this forum, and I have noticed that S6's, get treated like Audi's step kids. I thought it was after all an "S"car, and deserved more respect than it gets (look at the smilies, not one S6 in there). If history is correct, Audi made the "S" car before they made the "RS" (does R stand for radical? just wondering), therefore, I think the company thought it was a car worth keeping, and not ditch after the very RADICAL R cars. S6's are fine models that have plenty of special things about them. They might not be squirlly enough without turbos, but they make a great everyday driving machine. Should I be searching for S6.com, if there is a site available, or can I continue enjoying the reading of all posts on this one. After all, if we were all race car driver's, we would not even consider any four door vehicle with lots of power.
Just my 2c.:addict: :incar: :bow: :eye: :hihi: :(

SoCal

September 13th, 2006, 06:03

Irondad, you make some very good points. In fact, it was the combination of quality, performance and family-friendliness of the prior generation S6 that got me to buy my first Audi. It's a great car. I'm glad and not at all surprised that you love your wagon.

You may be right that the S6 doesn't get enough attention in these pages. Some of that is because, until very recently, it has not been in current production. I suspect that will change with the new model rolling out this year.

A lot of the Audi models that have owners who are passionate enough to blog on sites like this one (RS6, S4 and TT, to name a few) love their particular machines, but we can't forget that one of the things that makes Audi such a fine brand is the sense of design, stealthy sportiness, and understated quality across ALL models in the family. As much as I love my RS6, I'd be among the first to say that it is not the best car for everyone, even if cost were no object. More to the point, Audi is a strong and growing brand not because of any one particular top-end model but rather because they offer a wide variety of consistently finely tailored cars in Audi's. Different platforms, different levels of performance and trim, different price points, it doesn't matter. All have distinctive road feel, good fit-and-finish, a high degree of safety, and are generally more interesting and less flashy than their counterpart models among other makes.

Some of the most interesting things happening now are in so-called "lesser" models (like the A3 for instance, with its DSG transmission, like the range of suspensions in various models, and the roll out of FSI and TDI technology for more efficient, responsive throttle control). So, one needn't spend a king's ransom on the top models just to have cutting edge technology.

A car should be safe, comfortable, functional and handle well enough to make the driver feel - correctly - that they have ample control in most situations for the style in which they drive. If the car also engenders brand loyalty and extreme pleasure for its looks, performance, or whatever, even better. Audi IMHO does a pretty good job on both the rational and the emotional scales. (Lexus may be a good brand, but there aren't too many Lexus car clubs.)

The new S6 happily should occupy a niche between the other A6 variants (which are great family cars and good values) and the S8 and future RS6 (which should, for cachet and profits if nothing else, and due to cost of course) remain more limited as flagships for performance and luxury.

Keep on posting your thoughts, about your S6 or anything else. More than welcome and right on the money.

:incar:

Charles DLF

September 13th, 2006, 11:06

Originally posted by SoCal

The new S6 looks like a fabulous car, especially the engine. Not a match for an RS car, but then it's not supposed to be. A good compromise between family cruiser and performance.

i agree, but then i don't get it!! Why does audi spend so much money in making S cars, when the real sport version is the RS? My point is that when you get a 4.2 quattro A6, you get an excellent family cruiser, that's not a sports car... The S6 is a sort of mongrel car... This model, in my opinion, cannot sell well, because if you want a cruiser you'll buy a cheaper 4.2 V8 A6 , and if you want a sport sedan, you'll wait for the RS6... Which is why BMW has the 540 and the M5, and MB the E500 and the E55...

Does anyone agree with me? Don't get me wrong i love the idea of a V10 in an audi, but it's got to be an RS6!

Best to all

Charles

Do you think the S6 is a first step to the RS6? If so, i just think this is a waist of money!

AndyBG

September 13th, 2006, 12:25

One litlte tip, for everybody,

FIRST TRY NEW S6, THEN COMENT ON IT,

V10 has fantastic power delivery and 435 hp isn't small figure at all, any of those people here on the forum ho drived new S6 want tell it's slow.

It's a good car, not like RS 6, but it's class for itself, S6 never was competitor to BMW M5 or E class AMG.

SoCal

September 13th, 2006, 13:01

Originally posted by Charles DLF
i agree, but then i don't get it!! Why does audi spend so much money in making S cars, when the real sport version is the RS? ... The S6 is a sort of mongrel car... This model, in my opinion, cannot sell well, because if you want a cruiser you'll buy a cheaper 4.2 V8 A6 , and if you want a sport sedan, you'll wait for the RS6...

S cars significantly outsell RS cars because they cost less.

There is a larger market of people who are willing and able to spend $$ for a family car with really good performance (better than an A6) who don't want (or can't) spend lots more money to buy and insure a rarified RS sports sedan.

The "mongrel car" you describe can also be viewed by many as the optimal compromise between sedan and performance. For most car buyers, compromise between what they want, what they can afford, and what they need is the only way to make a decision and to define "value". Not everyone "needs" top end performance, but that doesn't mean they don't want a car that handles better and is faster or has more prestige than a base model. I think Audi is right to offer three ranges for most of its sedans. After all, if they didn't it's probably the RS models that would disappear.

irondad

September 13th, 2006, 13:45

Bottom line is, I wanted a wagon, a fun wagon, as a matter of fact, my cycling team is sponsored by Volvo, and even though they have the new S60R, a fun car, but not an Audi, decided to go with the four ringed car. Price was not a problem, but finding an RS wagon was, so I opted for the S6 Avant, and what a great car it is.
Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll have a new V-12 RS6 Avant in the near future, now you're talking.:incar:

Toto89

September 13th, 2006, 14:06

Originally posted by Charles DLF
i agree, but then i don't get it!! Why does audi spend so much money in making S cars, when the real sport version is the RS? My point is that when you get a 4.2 quattro A6, you get an excellent family cruiser, that's not a sports car... The S6 is a sort of mongrel car... This model, in my opinion, cannot sell well, because if you want a cruiser you'll buy a cheaper 4.2 V8 A6 , and if you want a sport sedan, you'll wait for the RS6... Which is why BMW has the 540 and the M5, and MB the E500 and the E55...

You forgot a thing...The S Audis are in production(don't know if it is correct in English:rolleyes: ) for 5 or 6 years and if I know well around 20,000 S cars have been made from a model.It is like BMW Ms and Mercedes AMG models.The RS cars are much more unique!They are in manufacturing for 2 years and not more than 5000 cars have been made from a model!So in selling the RS cars can't compete with BMW Ms and AMGs.
Thats why Audi needs to take care about developping the S series.

Benman

September 13th, 2006, 15:37

Irondad,

Welcome to the forum. The S6 Avant was/is a great car. When it first came out, I was in love with it and wanted one. When news of the RS 6 coming Stateside was heard, I waited for that, but believe me, I was bummed they didn't bring the Avant here. Enjoy your S6.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

Charles DLF

September 13th, 2006, 15:39

ouh god, sorry everyone, didn't mean to offend anybody... :eek: That was just my $0.02 thought of the moment, don't take it personnally!!

Best to all

Charles:eek: :bow:

Skaala

September 13th, 2006, 17:10

if it hadn't been for the $240.000 prize tag it has in Norway, I would have picked me up an Avant a long time ago:rolleyes:

AndyBG

September 13th, 2006, 17:37

Originally posted by Charles DLF
ouh god, sorry everyone, didn't mean to offend anybody... :eek: That was just my $0.02 thought of the moment, don't take it personnally!!

Best to all

Charles:eek: :bow:

If this is @ me...

No ofense here, just wanted to bpoint out, mis-understanding... :0:

:bye:

All best, Andy !

rtbarry

September 13th, 2006, 19:42

in my opinion, the S6 should have been an Avant, even in the US/NA.

reasoning:
the S6 sedan is completely over-shadowed by 2 other superior audi sedans + interesting offerings from other marques.

further over-shadowing it is the impending release of the RS6. i would go insane if i bought an S6, and found out within the next year or 2, than an RS6 was greenlighted for the US. and i believe it will be.

all in all, really bad timing on audi's part to introduce this car now.

however, if it were an S6 Avant, i think many more people would consider it, in place of an S4 or an SUV/crossover.

Kev.S

September 13th, 2006, 20:10

I think the main reason the S6 doesn't get much attention on the various bulletin boards around the World, is due to its rarity value. I went from a Prodrive modded Imprezza to an A6 Quattro Sport, as my other half at the time, hated the Imprezza on long journeys. However, the performance drop between the two was too great and when I spotted an S6, whilst having the A6 serviced, I just had to buy it, as it combined the two priorities in my motoring life- speed and comfort.. I owned the S6 for two and a half years and never saw another, even at dealers. It was a great car and there's nothing I'd have swapped it for, but then along came the RS6 and after driving it, I just had to have that! (I've always bought my cars with my heart and not my head!)

There's too much comparison between Audi models and their competitors, which isn't really relevant. If your driving needs, for family or other reasons require space, then it's pointless comparing the RS4 and S6. Likewise, if you want carrying capacity for garden centre visits and the kids' bikes, then the S8 is not the way to go. However, if you want a roomy, but quick saloon or estate, then I'd really consider an S6.

Personally, I think the reason why S6s were so rare in the past was their market niche. Few families were willing to spend the extra money on the performance jump between an S6 and an A6, as their priorities lay elsewhere and the people who wanted an outright rocket ship looked at other models and makes.

noushy

September 19th, 2006, 05:03

To Ben and all the guys with present RS6 cars. The S6 was never intended to replace the RS6. It is a great car in and of itself. I agree with the comparison to the E550 and 550i. Those cars are about 5-10k less when optioned out, but do not hold a candle to the S6. I missed my chance to drive the first batch (audi picked them up the morning I went in to drive them) but I did get to experience a ride in one, and also to take the S8 out. The S8 I really got to hammer and to get to know the engine. Wow is all I can say, it is smooth, nice growl, very linear, just an awesome engine that neither the benz nor beemer can match. The S6 ride is another story though. The RS6 out handles it and thrases much less than the S6. The S6 is sort of the odd duck that really does not make that much sense in the US lineup. If we did not have the A6 4.2, then this would be the top model, but I agree, most people will drive the 4.2 and never know what they are missing. Audi is not planning on importing very many S6s anyways. My lease is up in about 4 months, and I think I will get an S8 for two years. This opens up the option for an RS6 if and when they come out in 2008 or 2009. I also think you can use the S6 as a stepping stone if you need a car, and want the midsize quattro vehicle. It is really too bad since the S6 is a wonderful sports sedan, not a supersedan, but a sports sedan.

Noushy

AndyBG

September 19th, 2006, 10:06

Originally posted by noushy
... I also think you can use the S6 as a stepping stone if you need a car, and want the midsize quattro vehicle. ..

What's yours desicion, S8 or S6...

noushy

September 20th, 2006, 04:25

Andy, I still have not finalized it yet. I have a few more months left with the RS6 and lately we have been having a lot of fun together (trip to mackinac island at high speed). I still have to drive the S6, and Audi has not dropped any more cars off yet. The sales manager called AoA and they are supposed to drop one of their own S6 cars by the dealership for a test drive. For me, I think it comes down to the M6 and the S8. I still have to drive the M car since it has not come in yet, but I loved the S8. As soon as I drive them, I will put down a deposit and order the car. I would say the breakdown is 60% S8, 30% M6, 10% S6. But that could change when you drive them. If the RS6 was announced, you know that is where my money would be. The AMG cars just didn't do it for me.

Noushy

AndyBG

September 20th, 2006, 13:55

In that case, my vote is for S8, that is IMHO best solution for you in this situation, considering that you will be transfering from one ''sport limousine'' its logical to go for another one, plus all that advantages of ''quattro'' and your good expiriances with it. Not to mention thart faboulous, Lambo' derivated V10...

Also, there is this rialibility issue with BMW M5/M6, to many of them ''going out of game'' every day, just take a look at BMW forums...

Just my 0.3...

All best, ANDY

chutia

September 22nd, 2006, 23:55

:vgrumpy: Not to be contrary, but having owned and then having sold my super-pristine CPO'ed, low mileage RS6 due, in main part, to reliability and lack of spare parts availability and techs who simply do not know this car......reliability in an RS6??? IMHO, that's an oxymoron, sorry to say.

noushy

September 23rd, 2006, 00:20

It seems that we have drifted off topic for a while but I wanted to add this in the RS6 defense. For a car that has 450+ hp, all wheel drive, a completely new suspension technology for Audi, and many special parts, my RS6 is a daily driver with no unscheduled visits to the service department. Now that may be a testament to my dealership (Audi of Rochester Hills) which seems to be better at servicing these cars than the average dealership. My car has taken me through rain, snow, heat, ice, you name it we got it in michigan. I have driven it in the dead cold of night racing to a hospital and it has been my good friend. It is not the flashiest car, or even the most amazing design, but it is certainly reliable. I have owned many luxury cars including BMWs, Lexus, MBs, and the Audi is certainly better than most. Very few car makers can come out with a limited edition car like the RS6 and make it work as an everyday car. Now I am sure that the new V10 is even more reliable based on less complexity (normally aspirated for instance). Our S6 had only 1 problem other than routine service and that was the immobilizer ring around the ignition failed. I can say that Audi builds a great car, with above average service. Now I would love to own a new RS6, even if the styling is not as great as say a CLS or M5 (each his own opinion) or even a maserati qp, but what the car does so easily it does very well. Now if I can only get to drive the new S6, I think I can lease one for two years until the new RS6...

Noushy

SpinEcho

September 23rd, 2006, 01:30

I'll second that. Similar conditions for my Beast as a daily driver, from -35 C to +35 C, and nary a glitch. Putting things in perspective, a few rants from unfortunate owners always make things sound bad (not to diminsh at all their pain or understandable anger!) I'll knock on wood now...

judahcarl

September 25th, 2006, 08:11

Benman

September 25th, 2006, 15:44

I pickup my S6 v10 this Friday. I did not purchase it as a race car. It is a super car that can be driven in rain, snow, sleet, hail.

If I have the money 2 years from now, I will purchase the new RS6 as well.

Audi leads and does not follow........

Finally someone that owns one! I'd be very interested in a full write up after you've had some time with the S6.

And yes, I'll second Noushy and Spin's comments on the RS 6.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

AndyBG

September 25th, 2006, 16:30

IMHO, very logical thing to do is what noushy is preparing to do, RS 6, S6 then again RS 6 and so on...

I love AUDI... :addict:

jimmy94507

September 25th, 2006, 17:36

I'll third Noushy, Spin and Ben's comments on the RS6. 38K miles, some very enjoyable track days and lots of smiles along the way! Its unfortunate that Chutia had a bad experience with his CPO'd car. I've had great experience with Scottsdale Audi.

Jimmy S.

October 3rd, 2006, 00:39

I went out to see the S6 and S8 side by side at Champion in FL today. There is not comparison between these two cars (even tho the performance numbers are similar). The S8 is by far the best looking uber sedan i have ever seen . PERIOD. Champion has a phanton / black S6 available and a quartz / two tone (black and silver) S8 for delivery to a customer. I took the S6 for a spin, but the S8 was pre-sold. Side by side, these cars a very different. From the eyes to the gills to the chin spoiler to the quad pipes (MUCH LARGER ON S8) to the sound of the V10 from the S8 to the interior. The S8 has to be the best sedan on the market today (and ive owned most of em). I could have easily put my money into the S6 (a great car), but I'm going to do something completely out of character and wait for my S8.

RS4 just rolled 1500 miles and the heads up is telling me that i can take her to redline ... woo hoo :rs4addict

noushy

October 3rd, 2006, 01:07

Hey K2, are you going to keep the RS4 and add the S8 or trade it in for that? I have had a hard time choosing car(s) to replace the RS6. I was soooooo close to putting a deposit and building my new S8 but at the last minute the wife and friends wanted me to try something different. For the next 2-3 years I am going to drive an M6 until the new RS6 comes out. I loved the S8, but it is a large highway sedan. It excels at taking 4 people longs distances in comfort and speed. It is not a handling champ, too heavy and too large. I might get a RS4 for driving in the winter and when the weather is not the best. I am just glad to see another RS6 writer interested in doing something similar to me. I did not want to get a S8 and RS4 because then I would have two sedans. Now a S8 and R8 would be great but a little too rich for my blood. Oh and Audihead, you will have to come by so I can get a quick fix in the RS4 (besides you owe me a drive, I let you drive the RS6 ;).

Noushy

October 3rd, 2006, 16:15

i posted some time back that Audi is going to make life miserable for us Audiphiles. Way too many great cars to choose from and an even better one a couple of years off. I would like to keep both the RS4 and the S8. I frankly wish i had kept my RS6 given the residuals. I've already gotten rid of the Q7 (nice fit and finish ... horrible drivetrain ... and forget about a panoramic roof in FL). I am told my S8 is about 3 weeks out. I'm excited, but frankly enjoying my time with the RS4. She is finally breaking in and getting more sorted every month. It truly is a very fun car to drive and the gear box is as good as it gets. That said ... I really believe the S8 will be one of those truly unforgettable sedans much like the 01 S6. Even today when I see an old S6 on the road I pull muscles in my neck. IMO, the new S6 will not hold its value. Its realistically not that much nicer than the 4.2 A6 and in person the S6 does not evoke much emotion and the handling is quite disappointing. The S8 on the other hand is easily distinguished from the A8 or any other Audi. The front of the car is marvelous. The meshed intakes and the aggressive chin spoiler are marvelous. The engine note is unmistakable and reminiscent of a low rpm Gallardo drive by. I wasn't allowed to sit in this car, but sticking my head in you can tell its an upgrade to the already incredible A8. Of course I'm going to be saying these exact words when I first see the B7 RS6.

Benman

October 3rd, 2006, 19:00

I've already gotten rid of the Q7 (nice fit and finish ... horrible drivetrain ... and forget about a panoramic roof in FL).

k2,

So we don't go waaay OT (Which I'm frequently guilty of :D) I'll start a thread in the Q7 section. Please reply to it as I'll have some questions for you.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

AndyBG

November 30th, 2006, 14:35

Here is Fourtitudes review of new S6...

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Features/article_2695.shtml

AndyBG

November 30th, 2006, 14:55

I have one, maybe stupid question, but, I'm going to ask anyway...

Where are the fog lights on the new S6 ?

noushy

November 30th, 2006, 19:25

The fogs are the line of white led lights.

andrewket

November 30th, 2006, 21:42

So I am guilty of not posting a full review of my new S6. I promised I would, and I promise I still will; I just don't have the time right now.

But, in short:

1. It is a great car for what it was designed for.
2. I test drove the E63 and M5 before I bought the S6. It has the least performance as the numbers go of all three cars, but it was the best overall package for me.
3. It was cheaper than both.
4. AWD
5. The interior is excellent.
6. I would prefer a manual, but the automatic in this car is really good. It is much smoother than the BMW's SMG in auto mode.
7. Better fuel economy than the M5 (but I don't believe the E63)

I had the chance to take the car out on the track last weekend and it performed very well for a car of its weight. I had a semi-pro driver drive my car and he was quite surprised by how well it handled. His quote (paraphrasing) was that it handled as if it was the size and weight of the S4.

I'm not sure why the reception for this car has been reported as cold. Most of the dealers I contacted when I was looking for one didn't have one to sell. Their allocations were already sold.

It isn't is fast as the "competition" but if you live somewhere where it rains or snows, and money actually is an object, then I think it is a great choice.

-A

noushy

November 30th, 2006, 23:21

I think the luke warm reception, especially on this board is that we are RS6 fans/owners, and are anxiously awaiting the new one. I would have bought a new RS6 no questions asked. Instead I have to wait, an opted for an M6. My wife wanted me to get something different, a coupe, and the M6 is awfully sexy. The engine is amazing, the trans is certainly a learning curve, but it has some advantages and disadvantages over a manual. Otherwise, the fit and finish is good, the ride is amazing for a sport GT, and there is not a single place I take it that at least one person does not ask me or comment about it. I think we all just wish the RS6 was available. I will miss my Audi (until we get a Q7). I loved the S8, it just made me feel like an older person, and I wanted something smaller for now. The car drove and handled great, and is beautiful. I am sure the S6 is very nice, but if it had 50 more horse, and offered a six speed, it would be a killer. The M5 has the look and name of a sports sedan, and the AMG car has a mean engine as well. Audi wanted to leave something to be desired for the RS6.

My 2 cents,
Noushy

AndyBG

December 1st, 2006, 03:07

The fogs are the line of white led lights.

Ok, but LED's are DRL, {day ride light)?

Are you saying that those 10 LED's have two functions? :confused:

noushy

December 1st, 2006, 03:54

Andy, sorry about the confusion. The LED lights are the daytime running lights, the fog lights are integrated into the headlight system. The lexus RX330 does something similar. I also think BMW might do the same. Try this link

http://www.audi.com.au/upload/156079.pdf
http://www.carpages.ca/go/roadtest/2007_audi_s6_preview.aspx

Noushy

hemants

December 1st, 2006, 14:20

I've ready every post and here is how I would summarize :

1. S6 is priced and performs above 550i/E550 but below M5/E63. The advantage is that it is both a sleeper but also very exclusive - sort of like an IWC watch in a sea of Rolex and Cartier.

2. Ride quality should have been more compliant given the positioning of this car. S4/RS4 can be blamed for being too harsh but not the S6. Air suspension is a missed opportunity on this car - that way the driver could choose. (Owners, I would like to hear your impressions of ride quality - every mag review says it's horribly stiff)

3. RS6 will likely try to position ABOVE the M5/E63. Audi's strategy seems to be to stagger between the competition. The S6 has an identity crisis precisely for this reason. You're paying a high price for Audi's "second best".

AndyBG

December 1st, 2006, 14:55

Silver TT

December 1st, 2006, 23:38

Excellent point.

Excellent, excellent point.

I'm guilty of both. With that said, I am not getting the new S6. Reasons:

1: My RS 6 has 24 months to go and then it is paid off 100%!
2: New S6 is 300lbs heavier than my RS 6.
3: The new S6 make less hp and torque than my RS 6 and therefor slower (not by much).
4: Last and least importantly, it gets even worse fuel economy.

The new S6 is great and all, but it's hardly a RS 6 replacement. The new S6 is a S6 replacement.

Ben:addict:

Ben - All great points.

Since you mention fuel economy I thought I'd ask. What are you seeing on the RS6 under normal to slightly spirited driving?

hemants

December 1st, 2006, 23:52

Fuel economy is listed as 15/22 for the RS6 and 15/21 for the S6. Pretty much the same.

Benman

December 1st, 2006, 23:58

Ben - All great points.

Since you mention fuel economy I thought I'd ask. What are you seeing on the RS6 under normal to slightly spirited driving?

:applause: Well, the :rs6kiss: sure isn't known for it's miserly fuel sipping! That said, for what it is, it does darn good if you're putting along.

Really agressive driving will return anything from 7mpg (full on track days) to 12mpg (hard core back roads with the So Cal Audi Club Boys)...

"Slightly spirited" will return anything from 13-17mpg (having some good fun, but not out to kill anyone ;) ).

Cruise mode (aka 70-75mph on interstate) will return 20+mpg usually in the 21-23mpg range. My personal best tank was 26.0mpg (a long freeway cruise back from Laguna Seca @ 70mph) and personal worst tank was 7mpg at Audi Nationals Event.:hahahehe: :incar:

I'm sure George can chime in with Autobahn experiences... :dig:

Ben:addict:

Kev.S

December 2nd, 2006, 07:21

My RS 6 gave very similar figures to Benman's, although I've seen 24 mpg on motorways and it used to do 14 round towns in heavy traffic. My S8 has seen a best of 23, but around towns in heavy traffic, on the same run as the RS6, does 5-9 mpg. Much worse!

noushy

December 2nd, 2006, 18:34

I doubt anyone buying any of the above cars is really all that concerned. No economy sedan makes anything close to even 300hp. That said, the RS6, for being an all wheel drive, heavy vehicle with a big motor, routinely gets me between 18-20mpg with mixed highway/city and I rarely drive less than 80mph on the highway. My M6 sucks in comparison, I rarely break 14mpg, even just highway driving at 70mph. The RS6 even when driven hard on the highway (a few kills, breaking 100mph here and there) still returns me 18. Now the other thing I loved about the Audi, and hate about the BMW is the size of the tank. Come on, any car with 400+ hp needs 20gallons. Regardless of weight, I sometimes have to fill the BMW after 160miles. What a joke, the Audi always gave me 300miles minimum between tanks, and if driven highway only at 70-75mph, much closer to 400miles. Now if you guys can find a sedan that is in the 4 second range to 60, 10 seconds to 100, and the quarter under 13, that gets 300+ miles between fillups, and at least 17mph, PLEASE let me know.

Noushy

Benman

December 4th, 2006, 18:05

Now if you guys can find a sedan that is in the 4 second range to 60, 10 seconds to 100, and the quarter under 13, that gets 300+ miles between fillups, and at least 17mpg, PLEASE let me know.

Noushy

You just perfectly described the :rs6kiss: ... and besides the Beast, I doubt there is another. ;):thumb:

Ben:addict:

jimmy94507

December 4th, 2006, 18:43

Install Hotchkis sway bars, Kenisis wheels, R-compound tires and have a blast at a track day and drive a civilized car home. Still delivers eery day what noushy described!!

Jimmy S.

noushy

December 4th, 2006, 19:16

Ah, you guys are trying to make me miss my car even more. Audi, Wake up and start getting the RS6 C6 ready!

Noushy

Benman

December 5th, 2006, 15:19

Ah, you guys are trying to make me miss my car even more. Audi, Wake up and start getting the RS6 C6 ready!

Noushy;)

They are... they are...

Ben:addict:

noushy

December 5th, 2006, 23:31

I know, but it will probably be 2 years before we see one. The S6 is finally starting to show up in a few places, and very few have been sold around here. I also hope that Audi does not make the new model a single year only product. The present RS4 is still available.

Noushy

AndyBG

December 7th, 2006, 14:34

I think that new RS 6 is going to be two year model with LOTS of kgs and under-powered N/A engine...:doh:

AndyBG

December 29th, 2006, 10:43

Take a look at this...

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175709

S6 / M5 / E 63 AMG

... interesting outcome.

noushy

December 29th, 2006, 14:34

Andy, I just came back from Palm Beach Florida, and surprised to see a large amount of Audis. Not too many S/RS models, especially compared to AMG versions. But still the brand is certainly hanging in there with Merc and BMW. I am disappointed at how few S6 and RS4 cars I see around here. With the AoA headquarters just miles away, you would think this is a very heavily influenced area. Not true, and in fact lately the high end Audis, (except the A8 models) have been disappearing. I see more AMG and M cars than those, and you would think winter time, it would be the opposite. I am worried that the brand is losing its sporting image (save for the R9), and most of it has to do with Audi and how they price and manufacturer the sport models. I feel the S6 is too expensive for what it is, and leaves little room for the RS6 price wise. Audi usually prices the RS model about 20k more than the S model, and that means 100k or more for the new RS6. I suspect part of the reason why the car is taking so much time is Audi letting the market settle out a bit, and not try to compete directly with the M5 and E63 right away. Just like the RS6, was late to the party, but won many accolades.

Peace,
Noushy

AndyBG

December 29th, 2006, 21:27

I can concour with you with and your opinion.

The base thing Audi HAS to do with new RS 6 is its POWER, nothing else.

If new RS 6 produce enough HPs and great amount of luxury, (more than BMW and MB, of c), there want be no problem, even with big price tag. its all in that, i'm sure.

Far as this article is conserd, i have to say that i am suprised with the outcome.

S6 over M5 am E 63.

Toto89

December 29th, 2006, 21:27

... interesting outcome.

Why interesting? Audi is the winner...it's realistic:hihi:

andrewket

December 30th, 2006, 02:02

So, is definitive desicion taken?

Or anybody else...

Do we have first ''official'' order on RS6.COM ?

Nope, I already own one. Picked her up the day my dealer received it back in October and I love it.

-A

AndyBG

December 30th, 2006, 03:54

Why interesting? Audi is the winner...it's realistic:hihi:

Amen ! To that ! :hihi:

I just want to say, after all these negative preception of the car, and ''bad'' rewievs, finaly, S6 is starting to be seen as what it is, GREAT CAR !

AndyBG

December 30th, 2006, 03:56

Nope, I already own one. Picked her up the day my dealer received it back in October and I love it.
-A

Congrat's !

How do you sume-up impresions, after three monts of ownership?

Are you feeling disapointed or plesently suprised?

Audiphile

December 30th, 2006, 04:22

I own a brand new 2007 S6. I am not sure where everyone is coming from in saying "disappointment", but most reviews have found the S6 to be quite superior in all respects. First of all, the S6 has been presold in my area and it takes a while to get one. Having said that, the S6 should not really be directly compared with the M5 or E63 AMG as it has about 65 less horsepower. That is why a new RS6 is coming soon. That said, the S6 is "not any less" of a high performance Audi than either the M5 or E63 AMG. In many respects, I find it very superior, especially in the overall execution of the car. My observations have been proven correct as the S6 (at less horsepower) seems to score extremely high against the M5 (beating it in at least several comparos so far from major automobile rags) and scoring only one point or less than the E63 AMG. What the RS6 will do to the M5 and E63 AMG can not bode well for BMW and MB as the S6 is already edging them in many ways. In general, I am not in such a hurry to get somewhere 5/10ths of second faster. That is not the major point in owning such an Audi as the S6.

As for my ownership impressions, the S6 is best Aud I have driven in terms of performance and definitely one of the best cars I have ever owned. Besides the expected perfect fit, finish, and quality of an Audi build automobile, the car is extremely precise and smooth. He corners with impressive precision, the suspension is stiff, yet smooth for enjoyable every day driving, and the steering is quick, light, and very accurate. He is a blast on the twisties and backroads - just point and he goes where you tell him. Uncompromising poise. The design is beautiful (way ahead of the old looking MB and the m(b)angled 5-Series which always looks like its lacking substance. That is what I like about the S6 - it looks substantive). And yes, he gets alot of attention from everyone. The LED daylight running lights give a very cool look. And of course the interior is something you always want to be in. The sound of he V10 is sweet! I love just hearing him sing. Anyone, who would not consider an S6 is missing the boat and the thrill. I've talked to several M5 owners, and everyone of them wishes they had purchased the S6 after driving the M5 on a daily basis. That is what is great about the S6, it can be an A6 if you wish or a S rocket when you desire. I love it! Perfect in every regard.

noushy

December 30th, 2006, 20:00

I do not think that most of the RS6 owners are slamming the S6, just that they are waiting for the RS6 replacement. I personally own an M6, love the engine, the styling, the coupe look and feel. I have absolutely no regrets on not getting an S6, it just is not what I was looking for. Having said that, I have a deposit on a new RS6, and when my lease is up, that will be the replacement. I know many M5 owners who just love their cars, and would never have considered an S6. I have driven one of the early press cars (and was one of the first to drive the US S8), and feel the engine is great, but the styling is just to close to an A6 4.2 to really make the car stand out. Audi intentionaly left the body kit for the new RS6.

Peace,
Noushy

LU-RS6

December 30th, 2006, 22:03

SoCal

December 30th, 2006, 23:43

Maybe I haven't read this thread thoroughly enough, but is there already a test/comparison available somewhere on the web between the RS6 and the new S6? I just want to know how scared I should be the moment I encounter a new S6 on the autobahn ;)

Don't be too scared. A well maintained and broken-in RS6 will still outrun and outhandle a new S6. The main advantages of the new S6 are the better transmission (smoother, slightly quicker shifting, and with 6 speeds instead of 5) , the more modern styling/accessories, and perhaps the more reliable (read: conventional) suspension. From a pure performance standpoint, as good as the new S6 is, it is still not a match for the ur-RS6.

Now, when the new RS6 comes out, be scared. Unless you get one -- in which case you can just smile and wave.:addict:

LU-RS6

December 30th, 2006, 23:53

thx Socal.
I'm not planning to have the new RS6 as soon as it comes out, generally I buy a car in that price range second hand as there is huge value-loss when buying it new.
But one thing is sure: the new RS6 will be a very fast car. Actually I am pretty sure I would prefer it above the R8 because it is so much more comfortable if you have a family or travel a lot. Only car I can think of which is also comfortable but faster is the Brabus Rocket CLS V12, but its price is triple the price of a new RS6 I reckon.

Best regards and happy newyear,

LU-RS6

SoCal

December 30th, 2006, 23:55

LU-RS6,

Happy new year to you, too!

Leadfoot

December 31st, 2006, 00:19

Don't be too scared. A well maintained and broken-in RS6 will still outrun and outhandle a new S6. The main advantages of the new S6 are the better transmission (smoother, slightly quicker shifting, and with 6 speeds instead of 5) , the more modern styling/accessories, and perhaps the more reliable (read: conventional) suspension. From a pure performance standpoint, as good as the new S6 is, it is still not a match for the ur-RS6.

Now, when the new RS6 comes out, be scared. Unless you get one -- in which case you can just smile and wave.:addict:

I wouldn't be to sure that the old RS6 would out handle the new S6 if the S4v8 is anything to go by. It will beat the RS6 on any twisty road or twisty track you care to name regardless of the extra power of the RS6. Now if the new S6 can't beat the S4 then we all have a right to be concerned because that would be a step backwards when you consider that the S6 is on a more up to date chassis.

As for the new RS6, if Audi can once again pull off a trick like the RS4's handling then we will be in for a real treat.:dig:

AndyBG

December 31st, 2006, 14:32

I am more than sure that new S6 is MUCH more better handling car than RS 6, much more...

LU-RS6

December 31st, 2006, 14:43

Well I guess the only way of finding out is seeing a test between new S6 and RS6. i'll keep an eye on youtube till something pops up..

Leadfoot

December 31st, 2006, 16:28

Found something quite interesting on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esoDVqs-3Aw&mode=related&search=

Looks like the S6 would head to 180mph if it wasn't for the limiter.:jlol:

AndyBG

December 31st, 2006, 16:33

That car ISN'T joke, I'm telling you !

LU-RS6

January 2nd, 2007, 11:58

Leadfoot thanks for posting the vid. I must say, impressive!
Last tacho speed I saw was about 275km/h. In my knowledge the ur-RS6 is capable of about 300km/h on the tacho.

Best regards
LU-RS6

ott

January 2nd, 2007, 12:38

Maybe I haven't read this thread thoroughly enough, but is there already a test/comparison available somewhere on the web between the RS6 and the new S6? I just want to know how scared I should be the moment I encounter a new S6 on the autobahn ;)

On page 2 there is little story about my personal experience RS6 vs. S6 on autobahn.

LU-RS6

January 2nd, 2007, 12:43

ott thanks, I have read it, seems one has to stay attentive and one has to be in the right gear to beat the S6 on the highway. I can't wait till my first encounter with an S6...

Best regards
LU-RS6

Benman

January 2nd, 2007, 16:50

I wouldn't be to sure that the old RS6 would out handle the new S6 if the S4v8 is anything to go by. It will beat the RS6 on any twisty road or twisty track you care to name regardless of the extra power of the RS6.

No way Jose.

Pure physics. The new S6 is 300+lbs heavier than the UrRS 6 and most of that weight is towards the front. Now, combine that with the power deficit and there is no way it is faster around a track. Will have to wait for official numbers, but I'm confident it will not beat a RS 6 in the twisties. ;)

Guys, the S6 is a great car, just don't expect it to be a RS 6 beater... ;)

Ben:addict:

noushy

January 2nd, 2007, 16:54

Also remember that the RS6 corners a little flatter, given the DRC. The S6 is firm, but more luxury than sport. I expect the new RS6 to outhandle both the old one and the S6, probably breaking 8 mins around the ring.

Peace,
Noushy

AndyBG

January 2nd, 2007, 17:14

What about C6 S6s 40/60 for rear benefit quattro?

Is that any advantage over old power transfer with the RS 6?

Benman

January 2nd, 2007, 18:24

What about C6 S6s 40/60 for rear benefit quattro?

Is that any advantage over old power transfer with the RS 6?

It is a benifit to traction, but not actual phsyics. Physics are physics and the new S6 is just plain heavier with less HP and Torque, plain and simple. There is just no way it can overcome this.

The MkI RS 6 overcame inferior physics compared to the M5 with more HP and all wheel drive. Since the RS 6 and S6 both have quattro, the only hope the S6 could have would be more power or less weight. It has neither.

The S6 is a great car, but it was meant to replace the S6. It was not meant to replace the RS 6.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

Leadfoot

January 2nd, 2007, 20:22

Ben, after sampling the new 40/60 split quattro system on a newer S4 than mine I will have to disagree with you on this. I know the S6 is a lot heavier and this will go against it on the straights, but after seeing the difference on the corners between the two version I would definitely have to say the S6 will have it in the corners. By the way the S4 is 1680Kgs and on the twisties there is no doubt it's more controlled than the RS6, I tried both back to back before I bought mine and the new quattro system has only improved this.

I don't doubt it would be hellish close between them and on different tracks one would have the advantage over the other. Only time will tell who is correct.

Benman

January 2nd, 2007, 20:50

Only time will tell who is correct. I agree my friend, we'll just have to wait and see...

Ben:addict:

AndyBG

January 3rd, 2007, 10:43

The S6 is a great car, but it was meant to replace the S6. It was not meant to replace the RS 6.

Of course.

I just think that S6 is some four years younger and in these times that isn't short period of time. I think that C6 S6 is more balanced and more rafined car than C5 RS 6, wich is, IMHO opinion logical, it's newer car.

It has better gearbox, 40/60 quattro and, without any offence, less powerfull, but smoother engine.

All in all, i think it is more focused car.

:cheers:

AndyBG

January 3rd, 2007, 10:48

Benman

January 3rd, 2007, 19:12

Of course.

I think that C6 S6 is more balanced and more rafined car than C5 RS 6, wich is, IMHO opinion logical, it's newer car.

:cheers:

I'd agree with that.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

SoCal

January 3rd, 2007, 23:16

Yes, I with that agree, too. Andy and Ben, all good comments. :cheers:

AndyBG

January 4th, 2007, 03:18

:cheers: to that... ! :thumb:

Here is a litle video of S6...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U9TGdF_sFQ

noushy

January 4th, 2007, 03:31

Guys, the 40/60 split is an attempt to capture some of the rear drive feel and handling as well as give the front tires a little break in order to better cope with steering. BMW did this a while back with the first gen 325ix, and made it rear biased. The commentary on that car was that the all wheel drive was almost unnoticeable compared to the 325is. Audi is trying to shift quattro towards sport, and that is a bold and welcomed move. I have driven a newer S4, and it certainly has a little better steering feel, and more umph from behind (not sure if that is scientific). It certainly is easier to lay down the power, and still keep all four wheels turning.

Peace,
Noushy

noushy

January 7th, 2007, 01:47

A little off topic but the NAIAS will be showing the new A5 as well. I just received some info from our local audi club, and will be taking pictures at the industry preview night (next thursday).

Peace,
Noushy

Benman

January 8th, 2007, 16:53

and will be taking pictures at the industry preview night (next thursday)...

Peace,
Noushy
Please do!:dig:

Ben:addict:

Evil vanos

January 9th, 2007, 17:29

AndyBG

January 9th, 2007, 17:44

Maybe I am the only one ''defending'' S6, but I don't see anything ''cheap'' on that car. It has Lambo' derivateted V10 engine, FANTASTIC enterior, it looks great and IT IS NOT SLOW!

Plus, price tag of 79800 EUR in Germany does not make it cheap!

There isn't big diference in running S6 over RS 6, and I HAVE to remind all of you that Audi in the past only has S models as ''sport'' variants of it's cars.

Best thing to do, before giving any coments on that particular car, is to test it, I'm sure that many opinions would be diferent, only if you give a chance to this car.

Once again, I am saying that S6 isn't replacment for RS 6, wehn time comes new RS 6 will be here and it will be FANTASTIC, I'm only saying that S6 IS sport version of A6, and it's much more sport version of A6 then e60 550 i, the car you are compareing it with.

I didn't meant to be offensive, just stating my opinion! :thumb:

All best, Andy :cheers:

skiwi

January 9th, 2007, 17:50

you are right, with the "s', audi has another model position that both amg and bmw do not, particulalry now that, with the s-line, audi has followed bmw with "m"...

Leadfoot

January 9th, 2007, 19:21

I know the thread has changed a bit but The S6 isn't Marketed or sold as the top of the range 6 that title still belongs(performance wise) to the C5 RS6 BMW did this with the E39 540 sport it was and never will be an M5 and the same goes for the NEW E60 550i and the New M5 IMO The S is the "poor mans" RS and the i is the "poor mans"M If you could afford an RS6 would you have one or would you go for the S The phrase Poor Mans is not meant as a Derogatory term but an honest assessment not every one can afford to buy/run an RS4/6 or an M5 (M3's dont count there s*it) but they want something a bit different hence S line and i/Sport models

I totally disagree, even though I have as you put it a poor man's RS4 (S4). The S and the similar BMW have to emphasis on Luxury/Performance not out and out performance. If you spec a standard RS4 you get manual sports recaro seats and a sports button that tightens the seat bolsters, sharpens the throttle and changes the exhaust note where as in the S4 model you get none of these and it comes with elec seats and a fully automatic gearbox as a option. Likewise the 335i will come with things like a fully automatic gearbox and less sporty seats and leans more to the luxury side of sportiness. Some people may prefer the less showy looks of the S over the RS/M model though I am not one of them.

I would agree that most including myself would like to own the RS4/M3 depending on what camp you seat but I don't feel that I am short changed by the experience. Some call the Cayman the poor man's 911 that is until they try both on the track and then the statement changes the other way round.

Evil vanos

January 9th, 2007, 19:34

Andy the point Im trying to make is some of the earlier posts were saying they were disappointed with the S6 performance figures the fact is how P*ssed off would the C5 RS6 owners be (as Audi only stopped production in the last 1/2 years I think) to have spent £60k only to have an "All New" S6 be faster with more power released 6 months later BMW have Done this with the E60 550i and the old M5 (stopped production 02) both have similar torque figures but the M5 STILL has more BHP 400-360 if the 550i was "Better" it just wouldn't look good would it. This is how it looks to me

A=standard
S=Better than standard
RS=You Da Man Mutha F*cker
New S6 isnt aimed at you guys its aimed at (IMO)Mr Sensible not Mr Twin Turbo Fast as F*ck GIVE ME MORE:MTM::MTM::MTM:

Evil vanos

January 9th, 2007, 19:46

[quote=
Leadfoot;83661]I totally disagree, even though I have as you put it a poor man's RS4 (S4). Sorry If Offended you
Leadie the point
Im making or trying to make is you CANT
compair S6 to RS6 or S4 to RS4 they
arent meant to be
compaired the Emphasis on the Rs4/6 and the M3/5/6 is out right performance coupled with all the
bits,Ive read posts that the RS series rides hard NO S*it its a sports Car the same with the M5 it rides harder because its a sports car maybe it's just me being a snob saying the S is the "poor mans" RS when I said"Poor Man's" it wasn't meant Monetarily at £60k for a new S6
youd be the Richest poor man I know as For the Cayman and the 911 point Porsche make a very quick 4x4 911 called the "S" but they make a better one called "Turbo" is the "S" not called the "Poor Mans" Turbo? and the Cayman may be good but Critics will
allways say its the "Poor Mans" 911 or a
Boxter with a roof on
it,its not a dig at anyone
whos got An S or
Mtec car they are marketed as a LUXUARY sporty car, a standard car with
abit extra

AndyBG

January 9th, 2007, 22:53

diesel king

January 10th, 2007, 04:06

I hope you are wrong about a naturally aspirated engine making 520 hp. Can you explain how you are 99.9% sure about your figure? No flames intended, I am just curious.

Audi needs turbos and 550+ hp for me to take delivery!

Leadfoot

January 10th, 2007, 08:43

Evil vanos,

In no way was I offended. I was just making the point that the two cars were marketed differently, which is basically what you have added in your reply.:thumb:

AndyBG,

I wouldn't be to sure that the RS6 will be N/A, it not what I have been told and I stick by my claim of 550+hp.

S6LANA

January 10th, 2007, 10:26

Some call the Cayman the poor man's 911 that is until they try both on the track and then the statement changes the other way round.

I actually happen to love the styling of the Cayman. Not sure if anyone caught the write up, but January's Road & Track featured a tuned Cayman by a shop near my house. I don't believe they stated hp, but referred to it as a "911 killer." They were only making 20. I just wish I could afford it now.

I can only imagine the performance this car must have. Part of me would love a 911, but the other part would love a sleeper Cayman that exceeds the performance of a Turbo. Best part is the car with conversion costs $118k For that, you have one VERY unique Porsche.

Here's the link to the tuner's website. Looks really amazing. :thumb:

http://www.farnbacherloles.com/st/gallery.asp

SuperstarDriver

January 10th, 2007, 14:55

RS6 will never have a manual transmition 'cause could not handle so much power and the other thing is that it's way more better to drive a sportscar with the hand on the wheel and changing gears instantly from the pedals on the back of the wheel!look at the Lambo...is way better to drive a lambo with sequential gearshift than the manual...and the automatic is faster than the manual on Audi S and RS line...by the by guys i just wait the new beast from Audi...the RS6 but i have just a dissapoitment from it...it wouldn't have DSG like the Veyron(Audi Romania informed me that the actual DSG is not capable of putting down so much power 560-580Hp) so it will be an supersport Tiptronic-S gearbox!But i think even without the DSG it will be way better and faster then the SMG III from BMW...and the power...so much power to put down...AUDI is killing me:))))))

skiwi

January 10th, 2007, 17:47

RXBG

January 10th, 2007, 18:17

with that much torque (700 Nm) who cares about a DSG :)

0-60 in 3.9 as easy as pie- just press down while sipping your latte. oh wait. scratch that. it would be a bloody mess on your shirt.

:doh:

Leadfoot

January 10th, 2007, 20:37

there is as yet no dsg available for longitudional motors. the dsg unit in the bugatti was a special tranny mde by ricardo ...

btw, dsg has no particular issue with high power - the original unit, the pdk transmission debuted in porsche race cars, and the audi s1 rally car....

Sorry but your wrong, it's just not released yet and it will be going into the A5 with 7 gears. The only problem is that at present it can't handle the torque the RS6 will be able to produce and I'm not sure if it can even handle that of the S6.

Mori

January 10th, 2007, 21:41

I prever the new S6 over the RS4 24/7.

Hans.

S6 doesn't have the grin factor. ;)

Leadfoot

January 10th, 2007, 22:46

S6 doesn't have the grin factor. ;)

I can't agree more but the RS4 is a very special car, it's is one of the best riding Audis for comfort ever and that includes the competition so it one of the very few cars that doesn't make as much of a compromise as a lot of other so called sports/saloons.

In other words it does all of the things better that the S6 does and even rides better in to the bargain. The S6 might have the better of the old RS6 in everything excluding performance but it will that a very special Audi to knock the RS4 off the top spot.

In the red corner the champion (RS4) and in the blue corner the challenger (New RS6). Fight, fight, fight.:argue:

Oh it like being back at school.:lovl:

Mori

January 11th, 2007, 00:23

I've been thinking about the S6 since having a go at it on the track. Its not a speed demon for track use, but it definately works if someone needs a comfy car with a sporty attitude, especially on long journeys. Of course the Bentley CGT does it better, but there's no alternative if you go for the Avant. Until the RS6 - even if it only has 520HP.

PS. OMG - I never thought I'd say that a car has only 520HP. :D

AndyBG

January 11th, 2007, 14:11

I think that new RS 6 is going to have 520 hp N/A engikne, becouse Audi never ''jumped'' from its competion to much.

Having in mind that its two main rivals have 507 and 514 hps, both are N/A, I just can's fight the feeling that new RS 6 is going to be equiped with anything more than,

5.2 V10 520 hp.

Once again, I have to say that more than anything in the world, I would be like that I am wrong!

Will have to wait to see. :addict:

Leadfoot

January 11th, 2007, 14:50

Andy,

I am sure that Audi have been testing both N/A 5.2L RS6s and twin-turbo 5.2L RS6s, but it wouldn't be the first time that up to release everyone including the dealers, magazines and people like us have been sure that it will be one thing and the company do another just at the last minute, maybe a change of mind but more likely the other was just a decoy to throw everyone off the scent including the competition.

I think enough said, lets all wait and see.

SuperstarDriver

January 11th, 2007, 16:12

RS6 will have at least 550-560HP (even Auto motor und Sport Magazine from Germany told that in their magazine) so don't expect for a simple RS6 with just a liitle bit more performance than the rivals:IT WILL BE A MONSTER,THE FASTER 4 DOOR SALOON IN THE WORLD!!!!
Clarkson said when he drove the S6 that the new RS6 will be much more faster and much more agile from his rivals(because he felt the shassy so well,the handling so sublime, so perfect car)...you'll see guys...just 2 months off...come on people, wait cause he's coming...the king is coming...and by the way did anyone knows that it will be an RS8?Developing over 600HP (from the 6.0 W12 engine)!!!yes it's real...so Audi is planning to kick BMW and MB asses...very soon...M3 is allready eaten by the RS4, the new RS6 will eat the M5 and the new RS8 will eat the MB S63 AMG...so cruel,so fast,so AUDI...no so NASTY...AUDI TO BRING THE BEST HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS IN THE WORLD!

diesel king

January 11th, 2007, 19:19

I hope superstar is right. I must admit that I am new to the Audi party (owning a VW phaeton and two V10 touaregs got me on board.) I must say that as an Audi outsider, I sure sense a mounting Audi momentum.

I would be hugely disappointed if Audi doesn't twin turbo the V10.

(Yesterday my dealer was saying he thinks the R8 will carry the N/A V10 @520hp. He claims the TTV10 will find its way under the RS6 hood with many lighter components like fenders/hood. He did scare me a bit when he said US pricing will start at $110,000.:eek: )

AndyBG

January 12th, 2007, 00:47

Leadfoot...

We will have to wait and see, and I am hoping that you are wright and I am wrong, but...

More than 520 hp, I doubt...

SuperstarDriver

January 12th, 2007, 12:39

man i just wanna say that i'm european and you are american, audi RS cars are MADE IN GERMANY , and only a few people know about what will be next, those people are invited to special training shows on Audi A.G. in Ingolstadt to know what's next...i just believe those guys who actually knows what's next on Audi, who were on Germany at the training's and those magazines who ACTUALLY LEAVES IN GERMANY and spyshot the car and their performances...sub 550Hp it will not be...it will be upper then this ...560 or 580HP...NO KIDDING...YOU'LL SEE I'M RIGHT...AUDI IS ON THE WAY TO DESTROY REPUTATION OF M5...i can bett with you that RS6 will have more then 550HP at least...wanna bet?:)))

AndyBG

January 12th, 2007, 12:54

I am european to, so is Leadfoot...

More than half of members here are europeans, this is EURO-based forum, (SWEDEN) !

And, still, I am HOPING for that ''super-strong'' RS 6, but I don't expect that to hapend...

skiwi

January 13th, 2007, 06:28

i'm neither european or american, but i believe that the technical difficulties with a tt v10 in a c6 would be immense. heat is a big enough problem with our tt c5's, even with a 0.8 bar boost. assuming the same level of boost for the v10 would only produce around the 520bhp mark anyway. this number is attainable with a n/a v10 as both audi and lamborghini know full well. and this does without the weight and cooling penalties of a tt.

the key issue is whether this n/a engine would be allowed with lamborghini still with this bhp in the gallardo.

one thing that might happen is the long-anticipated bhp increase for the gallardo, followed by the 520bhp engine for the rs6.

believe me, if you have haven't driven the rs4, you will not know what a peach of an engine the v8 is, and what audi would be able to do with the v10.

also, 520bhp is more than the competition, and that would be enough i believe, especially if the weight of the car is kept under control...

if the "ok" from lamborghini isn't happening, then the tt route would be the obvious alternative. that way the italians can retain bragging rights, at least with n/a.

for those who think i'm overstating this issue, i can summarise it in 2 letters, "r" and "8"...

can't wait....

Leadfoot

January 13th, 2007, 08:21

skiwi,

520hp will no be enough to keep in front of the M5 and E63, it took the old RS6 an extra 50hp to do that. If it was not to achieve anymore than that then the only way to stay in front would be to lose some weight, but when you take into consideration that fact that awd does that extra power from the wheels the weight the RS6 would have to shed would be in the regions of 200kgs over the S6.

Now tell me which would be the easiest and the cheapest way to achieved to end results?

No doubt the heat will be a difficult problem to overcome, but I think it would be the easier option as reducing that amount of weight though it will do wonders for the handling would be extremely expensive especially on a model that was only 2 years or so away from replacement.

AndyBG

January 13th, 2007, 17:53

I think that Weight is going to be saved comparing to a S6, as I said many times before, in todays world you MUST have luxury in your cars in order to sell it, how ever useless it be.

Luxury = big weight... :(

RS 6 is going to be good, fast, and beautifull, 5.2 V10 520 hp...

but not much better than M5 and E 63 AMG... :(

I hope I am wrong, I HOPE ... !!!

Qisha

January 13th, 2007, 18:36

I hope I am wrong, I HOPE ... !!!

Hello Andy,

your hope has been received. :thumb:

Qisha

SuperstarDriver

January 14th, 2007, 09:19

ok guys if someone will not believe me that the new RS6 will have at least 550HP shall he regret that he didn't trust in audi so well...someone in this world is upper than we think, actually someone knows the details of the new RS6 and i found the information on him...so like i heard...V10, Bi-turbo,Tiptronic-S,DRC II,ceramic brakes and carbon fiber elements!

AndyBG

January 14th, 2007, 15:13

Hello Andy,

your hope has been received. :thumb:

Qisha

Thank you very much ! :thumb:

noushy

January 14th, 2007, 17:40

Andy and Leadfoot, I am not sure why it always seems like the topic gets hijacked. As far as all of us know, Audi has yet to commit to the engine format of the RS6. Yes they vehemently state that there will be an RS6, and that is all. And I agree, that a minimum of 500hp is going to be required, and given the quattro and weight, more towards 530hp or more. The last RS6 was 120hp more than the S6, and I expect the same this time. As far as solutions, a normally aspirated V10 from audi should be able to make at least 525hp (given the formula for the 4.2 FSI making 420hp). That is in the ballpark, and with some weight reduction (aka dropping the DRC, giving the RS6 a suspension similar to the S8), a few more carbon fiber panels (ie hood, decklid, fenders maybe), can keep the weight to around the S6. Bigger brakes, bigger wheels, wider tires all weigh more, period. More aluminum in the subframes for example (ie front or rear) can drop 50-100lbs, and still be possible to build without a major redesign or a new line. Same with CF parts, just swap them in. Audi needs to be able to build it on the current lines, to keep costs contained. A huge part of the cost of the R8 is its unique assembly (and also all those expensive lightweight parts). Even so, development costs were kept down thanks to the gallardo.

And as far as being European or American, that has no value in adding to the forum, we are all car people, and we try to relay any accurate information we get. I live 20miles from the US headquarters, have many friends that work for VAG US (AoA), and Detroit is still one of the hubs of the auto industry. Remember, Audi borrows heavily from Alcoa, for all of its aluminum technology and manufacturer and Alcoa is a US company. Just a point. Andy, Leadfoot, Knight, the rest of you, please chime in.

Peace,
Noushy

Peace

Leadfoot

January 14th, 2007, 19:13

noushy,

I know what you mean, someone always seems to take a different direction and all of a sudden we are talking about something totally different.

Back to the Audi RS6, I reckon the Qisha knows what he is talking about when he says that it will be over the 550hp mark, to all knowledgeable people on the forum that is what it would need if it's weight was to stay the same as the S6 to better the M5 and E63 in the acceleration stakes. But as you rightly state Audi are quite knowledged with alloy and could easily make the parts at a resonible price and keep the car on target regarding the overall price.

I am unsure as to how much weight the DRC system would be over something like the Magnetic Ride or Air suspension systems, the former should be the lighter, there are alloy wheels out there that weigh quite a bit lighter than the standard one like that on the new 997Turbo but these will have more of an effect on handling and steering feel than acceleration. The sub-frames if I am right are already partly made of alloy on the A6 so there isn't going to be a huge saving here neither. The choice of alloy or CF panels could be used but Porsche have shown that using the right type of steel can greatly reduce the weight without resorting to alloy.

I feel that power will be the most likely option for Audi though I reckon there will be an adoption of all of the above to try and improve the driving appeal closer to that of the RS4 without losing the luxury that customers of this sector look for.

noushy

January 14th, 2007, 20:48

Leadfoot, on the topic of wheels, you are absolutely right. My M6 wheels are extremely light, given the hollow spoke pattern, and forged alloy. I have 18 inch cast aluminum wheels for the winter tires, and they weight almost 10 pounds more than the summer 19 inch stock wheels. Saving 40lbs, especially unsprung does make a difference, and it will all add up.

Peace,
Noushy

AndyBG

January 14th, 2007, 23:23

Weight is issue no. 1, that is certain, S6 isn't Mister slim, at all, but without some radical changes, I just don't see a way to cut it down.

They certanly want go down the ''race way'', and put CF every where they can, and they 100% want ditch all that luxury gizmos, that are more than useles.

As you guys said, we aren't in the position to discus to much about this, we are ''outsiders'' not ';insiders'', but I am making my assumptions based on the curent situation on the world care market, and more than that, on the moment in the VAG, Porsche is coming and Panamera is on ''full throtle'' preparation.

Once again, I would like to see new RS 6 in all it's glory, packed with some ''monster'' V10 turbo engine, and everything elsre that comes with that.

Months ahead of us will show what is ''cooking''.

All best, Andy !

:cheers:

SuperstarDriver

January 15th, 2007, 10:18

for those guys who actually don't imagine that the new RS6 will have AT LEAST 550HP but the majority of us knows that it will have more than this read this(taken from the <A href="http://www.auto-motor-sport.de):"Eher">www.auto-motor-sport.de):"Eher für den "Familienbetrieb“ bietet Audi den RS6 an, der sein Debüt auf dem Genfer Auto Salon 2007 feiern wird. Angetrieben vom 5,2 Liter großem V10 aus dem S6, aber mit Turbounterstützung sollen RS6-Limousine und -Kombi bis zu 550 PS auf die Straße bringen. Auch hier kennzeichnen größere Lufteinlässe an der Front sowie anderes gestaltete Auspuffendrohre die Top-Versionen." German language in german site with german editors about german cars!Is it someone who knows better then this guys?....i didn't think so!RS6=PLUTONIUM POWERPLANT...IT WILL BLAST THE HACK OF THE STUPID M5!

Der Major

January 15th, 2007, 10:35

You are not quite right "SuperstarDriver".

The text sais that the RS6 will have the 5.2 litre V10 engine from the S6 but with turbo chargers installed (bi-turbo i assume) and it will get UP TO 550 HP and NOT "AT LEAST"

But i think it will still be enough.

Leadfoot

January 15th, 2007, 13:29

SuperstarDriver

January 15th, 2007, 15:11

yes...there says that up to 550HP but the confidential information i have about the new RS6 it is like AT LEAST 550HP(560HP at least has been told me and surprizely will be an 580HP) so we shall expect on a beast...race track beast...i have something in my venes something that i need to do...i need to kick the crap of the BMW drivers, make them cry and cry and ofticate themselves and show them who's the biggest sportscars maker in the world:AUDI!I really need to destroy BMW...

Der Major

January 15th, 2007, 15:38

It great to see a lot of new faces appearing on the site and welcome aboard.:thumb:

This seems to happen every time a new model is due for release, TT/S3/S6/R8 etc. It just shows that more and more people are turn to the Audi Brand and more more are switching on to this great informative site.:cheers:

Thanks Leadie. I joined this site quite a while ago but was more a reader in the background. I always liked Audi S4,C4 or old S2´s but Audi totally did it to me since I saw my first RS2 in 1995 near downtown Dortmund germany.

Was able to at least join some cool rides. (RS4 B5, S8(old & new), A8 4.2 TDI - which is pretty serious power, etc) since my brother works for Audi.

@ SuperstarDriver: sounds interesting to me and makes me wanna know more :-D and 580 HP would be more than enough to smoke some M5´s.

SuperstarDriver

January 15th, 2007, 16:24

580HP for the new RS6 will mean 4,1-4,2s from 0-100km/h...even M6 could not have a chance in confruntation between the new RS6...even with 550HP will kick them off...imagine...if only 507HP and shittie RWD is capable BMW, Audi is capable of over 550HP and even more(look at the engine for R8 in 2008-2009(610HP biturbo) so...BMW really sucks...

skiwi

January 15th, 2007, 17:35

"superstardriver", just a hint. if you are a audi fan, much better to extoll the virtues of the brand, and not to dis an alterntive brand. that approach gets old very very quickly....

noushy

January 15th, 2007, 18:15

SuperstarDriver

January 15th, 2007, 18:34

i hate BMW not because is the rival of Audi but because they are making ugly cars, with stupid interior and lots of lots uncontrol in the curves...i hate derapation...and bmw only on that is good...in my country 80% of hard accidents are made in bmw...believe me...someone crashed and died in bmw at 50km/h in a tree and died instantly with seat belt on:))))very good...bmw are stupid machines for me...for people who wanna show something that don't have...coolness...:)))and they drift on boulevards to show they have bmw...stupid guys,stupid cars...a car should NEVER DRIFT OR LOOSE POWER ON TIRES...a car should be complex put to the last hp on the road like Quattro...

SuperstarDriver

January 15th, 2007, 19:22

BMW sucks not because is against AUDI just because are making stupid ugly cars...supraviration is for stupid boys...boys like us like EFFICIENCY...SPORTIVITY...POWER IN CONTROL!

Leadfoot

January 15th, 2007, 20:14

Superstar, to like Audi does not mean to hate BMW. BMW makes excellent cars, albeit different than Audi. I do not understand your hatred for BMW. I do not care for domestic (american) cars, but I do not slam them in every post. Lets just all wait and see what the new RS6 brings.

Peace,
Noushy

Noushy, don't be too hard on him, at any age thing or in his case a lack of it.:D

Seriously, we all have digs at other brands of cars but Superstar is taking it to the extreme. OK, we get it, you hate BMWs but seriously you have told us about a million times already. Lets talk about the subject in hand and keep the competition to constructive comments only.:brag:

Mori

January 15th, 2007, 21:10

noushy

January 15th, 2007, 21:35

Mori, that is my sentiment exactly. Superstar seems to use personal experiences (if true) to make generalizations. The BMW X5 was rated the safest vehicle every made by the IIHS (http://www.iihs.org/news/2000/iihs_news_111400.pdf), to quote ' the best midsize SUV ever tested'. I want to lay this topic to rest.

Peace,
Noushy

Leadfoot

January 15th, 2007, 22:52

As I say, it's an age thing or more than likely a lack of it. It seems he feels it what we want it hear and in doing so will make him part of the group, but if he is not taking the hint that we are all sick of it, then I am at a lose.

Most on this site have something constructive to say and I for one enjoy our little debates and insights into what's new/coming and funny. But as you (Mori) have said it's tiring and boring to hear the same thing over and over again.

Aronis

January 16th, 2007, 01:55

"superstardriver", just a hint. if you are a audi fan, much better to extoll the virtues of the brand, and not to dis an alterntive brand. that approach gets old very very quickly....

Agreed.....

Some of us Drive BMW' also....or did......only wanted two things my M3 did not offer....more room for kids....and AWD......otherwise I'd still be drying an M3.....

And the M5 is very nice.....

Mike

AndyBG

January 16th, 2007, 05:21

So, is anybody going for the new S6 or you all think it ''sucks''?

Der Major

January 16th, 2007, 07:55

So, is anybody going for the new S6 or you all think it ''sucks''?

I would go for it. For me it is the perfect mix between comfort and sportivity + lots of room in the avant. Compared with the V10 makes it a great car in my eyes.:0:

AndyBG

January 16th, 2007, 11:33

I would go for it. For me it is the perfect mix between comfort and sportivity + lots of room in the avant. Compared with the V10 makes it a great car in my eyes.:0:

Finally, a positive opinion !

Great !

That V10 IS SWEET ! :revs:

SuperstarDriver

January 16th, 2007, 15:19

BMW RWD cars like stupid M5,M6,Z4M,M3...this cars are VERY VERY VERY VERY UNSAFE AND UNSTABLE...

Benman

January 16th, 2007, 15:35

So, is anybody going for the new S6 or you all think it ''sucks''?

I definately do not think it "sucks", it is just that the RS 6 has spoiled me. Had I never owned it, then the S6 would definately "float my boat". But... I have a RS 6, so a "regular" S6 just doesn't warrant the sale of my car. It would take something truely special to make me part with my Beast, and I doubt even the MkII RS 6 will do it.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

Leadfoot

January 16th, 2007, 15:46

Up until the RS4 came out one choose the S model of the RS model not only on price but also they were more comfortable and more luxuries. But the RS4 has changed all that with it's amazing ride quality, now you don't have to compromise on comfort.

If the RS6 has a similar ride quality to the RS4 then the only reason for picking the S6 is price, and who wants to be known as a cheap skate.

Mori

January 16th, 2007, 17:35

BMW RWD cars like stupid M5,M6,Z4M,M3...this cars are VERY VERY VERY VERY UNSAFE AND UNSTABLE...

Have you ever driven a BMW? We have 5 BMWs in our family and firm. E46 318iT, E46 330d, 530dT, X3 3.0d and an X5 4.6is. They are very safe and stable cars IMO.

SuperstarDriver

January 16th, 2007, 17:44

no thanks...supraviration is not for me...i like 155miles/h in the curves...could you that in a bmw with rwd?no...of course not...audi quattro rocks!

Mori

January 16th, 2007, 18:02

no thanks...supraviration is not for me...i like 155miles/h in the curves...could you that in a bmw with rwd?no...of course not...audi quattro rocks!

Have you ever driven 155mph in a straight line, let alone in curves??? Quattro makes no noticeable difference at that speed. I've driven a Porsche at 290km/h in Germany - guess what - its RWD and I didn't crash. :p

Dude - drive the car you diss first.

AndyBG

January 16th, 2007, 23:12

Ben, Leadfoot... and everybody else...

Are you seeying many S6s on the roads or it is ''rare breed'' ?

Mori

January 16th, 2007, 23:56

Saw one on german plates in Poland - saw a few in Germany too already. But its not a sales hit I don't think.

Then again - I'd prefer the S6 over the M5 despite it being slower, especially as an Avant. And if I wanted a fast sports car I wouldn't take the M5 or M6 - 911 all the way.

The M5 is unfortunately eating away at S6 sales due to more HP and being a sportier sedan - people go for Audi's mainly for quattro and Avants - the latter being shot down by the M5 touring which should see a lot of sales. Waiting for the RS6 - my dad already said he's getting an Avant if it has at least 520-550HP.

Der Major

January 17th, 2007, 08:45

I spotted a few here in germany. Because the S6 is pretty new that might be one reason why it is still pretty rare just like the new S8. Old S8 or RS6 can be seen a lot more here.

Benman

January 17th, 2007, 16:03

I've spotted only one to date. It was on the way to the L.A. Auto Show. None since then...

Ben:addict:

skiwi

January 17th, 2007, 17:36

seen several s6's & s8's in auckland... done circuits in both as well...

SuperstarDriver

January 17th, 2007, 18:18

i've seen a lot of S8 in Romania but none of S6 sadly...in RO people are stealing very very much from the Goverment by replacing official documents so their income are at high states because of that and they buy the best cars in the world!In Bucharest(the capital of Romania) we have the most expensive cars in the world(i'm not kidding) because they have a lot of money made by black market businesses and never ever tell the goverment how much is their income and are very orgolius people not to have the best car around!They use their cars to attract young and beautiful girls not for speeding(sadly)!We also have 1 Bugatti Veyron in Timisoara city and the other Bugatti is on the way in Bucharest for another billionare who also made black money....we actually have a market but a market where money are not for real...and in RO we also have the biggest market for BMW in the world(not kidding again) because of their stupidity they have in the brain(bring me women or p....sy has another taste in bmw)...very very stupid people and unfriendly...they call themselves "GOD OF THE ROADS BECAUSE THEY HAVE BMW"...but the reality is another....AUDI IS THE MOST POWERFULL AND SPORTIER CAR MAKER IN THE WORLD AND SECOND PLACE IS TAKEN BY MB AND 3TD BY BMW...so bmw sucks agains AUDI QUATTRO SPORTSCARS...did anyone understood something about my post?

Benman

January 17th, 2007, 19:46

did anyone understood something about my post?

Yes, that this post belongs in "Off Topic". ;)

Sadly, if the government would just legalize the "black" market, everyone would have a chance at big $$$, and not just the corrupt.

Ben:addict:

Aronis

January 17th, 2007, 21:46

BMW RWD cars like stupid M5,M6,Z4M,M3...this cars are VERY VERY VERY VERY UNSAFE AND UNSTABLE...

You know...you're either an ASS or a Twelve Year Old Girl....

RWD.....

Ferrari, Porsche, just about every RACE Car.....

I drove an M3 for 5 years....never an accident....and I pushed it to the limit.....

Your Opinion is Yours to have, but not necessarily grounded in REALITY.

.....

Hey, Forum monitors.....PLEASE LOCK THIS GUY OUT.

Mike

:vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy: :vgrumpy:

AndyBG

January 17th, 2007, 22:28

seen several s6's & s8's in auckland... done circuits in both as well...

How do you rate new S6, if i understand you corectly, you test-drive it?

skiwi

January 18th, 2007, 04:02

How do you rate new S6, if i understand you corectly, you test-drive it?

i liked it a lot. ride was reasonably poor, which was disappointing, but handling and brakes very good. better turn-in than the s8, and very tidy handling. not better than the rs though different...

the s8 was very impressive but not as well balanced as the s6, particularly under heavy braking. this surprised me as i would have expected the opposite given what you can do with an air-sprung chassis under these circumstances...

interiors of both exceptional, the s8 sound system simply unbelievable...

highlight was getting driven by fabien coulthard (dc's nephew) in the s6 getting a series of esse's wrong (he was trying to get a scandinavian flick happening) and crossing up completely and travelling 100m over the grass laughing like a crazy man.

however, having said all this, the best bit of the day was the drive back home 300km alone in the rs, particulalry some of my favourite roads, taking a few risks, but massively entertaining and wired me for weeks....

SoCal

January 18th, 2007, 08:30

Ben, Leadfoot... and everybody else...

Are you seeying many S6s on the roads or it is ''rare breed'' ?

I have seen only 3 new S6's driving around on the streets in L.A. since they came out. One was silver and the other two were dark grey. Daytime running lights are very distinctive. I have seen more M5s and M6s, and see other RS6's from time to time, so the S6 is definitely rare for now.

There aren't too many available for sale at local car lots, either, absent special order. Having driven the new S6 twice myself at local dealers, I'd say it is a wonderful car. For detailed comments, see my post titled "First Test Drive - Impressions of 2007 S6 " in the Thread "Just saw the new S6" from last October. We may be getting one, in fact.

My second test drive of the new S6 more recently was back to back with the new S8. Same general impression as the first test drive.

Despite similar engines and weight, the cars drive very differently. The S6 feels smaller than it is. The S8 is more of a GT cruiser, more refined, more elegant, but bigger. With the S8 one is constanly surprised at how sporty it feels for its considerable size. And the B&O sound system is sublime.

In the S6, I kept thinking it would handle better around turns at speed than it did, but maybe that's because I was not yet used to it. Fortunately, the brakes are beyond reproach and the car is easy to recover, whether with traction control on or off. Its smooth and powerful engine inspires more aggressive driving than the car's front-heavy balance was comfortable with, until I got the hang of it. The 6 speed gear ratios and quieter transmission make it less intuitive to pick a gear than does the admittedly cruder tranny in the RS6 with its widely spaced gears and highly noticeable shift points, especially when trying to downshift to 2d or 3d on a sharp curve near redline. Once I got a little used to it, though, the new S6 is a joy to drive. It is certainly quicker reacting in some ways than my RS6 -- throttle response and shifts are much better and more direct. As in any car, but especially in a sedan like the S6, the fast driver is really rewarded by driving smoothly with constant focus on weight transfer and resisting any urge to sharply stab the throttle or abruptly alter the line.

Compared to the S6, the older RS6 feels more stable to me overall as well as being a tad quicker. There's no substitute for the turbo thrust of the old machine and I am a fan of the DRC suspension. I am also very used to how my RS6 handles, which makes a difference in comparison tests. Not apples to apples there. And my RS6 is certainly quicker now that it is broken in (almost 18k well-cared-for miles) than when it was brand new.

Just my two cents.

Postscript: As for the comments about RWD in prior posts -- I too have driven lots of RWD performance cars over the years and they are absolutely safe. Quattro AWD has lots of advantages, but it does not make up for idiot drivers.:cheers:

Aronis

January 18th, 2007, 14:24

I think the non-turbo car in general offers a longer life with less repair bills. I'd like to see that S8 sound system in the S6 as well....

Mike

AndyBG

January 18th, 2007, 14:27

All in all, both of you guys aren't disapointed with S6, and would take it into considiration, maybe?

skiwi

January 18th, 2007, 17:46

yes, but would wait until the rs6 to see how good that was....

AndyBG

January 19th, 2007, 02:24

yes, but would wait until the rs6 to see how good that was....

Of course...

RS 6 is THE car, I just wanted to know peoples opinion on the S6...

Leadfoot

January 19th, 2007, 08:59

Postscript: As for the comments about RWD in prior posts -- I too have driven lots of RWD performance cars over the years and they are absolutely safe. Quattro AWD has lots of advantages, but it does not make up for idiot drivers.:cheers:

You couldn't have said a truer word. The advantage of Quattro is you can accelerate really well on the snow/slippery conditions, but here is where it's not idiot proof, it can't stop any better.:doh:

It the one problem with Quattro, you only really know how slippery the roads are when you try to stop and sometimes that can be too late.

But to be fair with he comments, I would pick fwd over rwd if the conditions were slippy and the least enjoyable drive in slippy conditions is a rwd BMW, sorry chaps but that my opinion.

SoCal

January 24th, 2007, 21:48

I think the non-turbo car in general offers a longer life with less repair bills. I'd like to see that S8 sound system in the S6 as well....

Mike

Yes and yes. Now that we own both an RS6 and S6, we'll see.

Note to Erik -- need an S6 Addict smilie flag, now.:thumb:

AndyBG

January 25th, 2007, 00:36

Yes and yes. Now that we own both an RS6 and S6, we'll see.

Note to Erik -- need an S6 Addict smilie flag, now.:thumb:

:applause:

Great, congrat's !

I hope you want be disapointed.

Are some pic's possible ?

SoCal

January 25th, 2007, 01:27

:applause:

Great, congrat's !

I hope you want be disapointed.

Are some pic's possible ?

Thanks. Pics soon; traveling on business for a bit but will post them when I get back.

AndyBG

January 25th, 2007, 01:34

Congrat's, once again !

Enjoy that V10 !

SuperstarDriver

January 25th, 2007, 16:38

i drived one year ago the present M3 and that car really sucks for me...why?because the back of the car get nasty on every viration a made and that can't happen on a 4WD sportscar!You mister smart what did you said that are the best sportscars in the world?RWD cars?Ferrari, BMW and MB?Really?So Lamborghini, Porsche, Bugatti traction is not good vs those cars you choose?Did you ever see an TopGear episode where Lambo crashed all their performances made by other sportscars with RWD?Excuse me men but 4WD from Lambo and Porsche 911 Turbo and RS and S from Audi is the best TRACTION IN THE WORLD!People are dieing DAILY IN BMW IN MY STUPID COUNTRY cause their thing is BMW and BMW is "the best" for stupid buyers like them and crash into trees, electrical systems, etc...for real who will gonna bring my friends back died in extrem accidents one year after other because their stupid traction who tooked them into the mortuar village...ahhh...who?And DAILY police said that poeple who die in BMW is because of the derapation (the cause of the accidents)...LAUNCH CONTROL?SUCKS...ESP ON BMW?Ha...and why the hall in the world Audi has the best traction on sportscars with Quattro and does not BMW?Why Porsche kicks off the Carrera GT with 4WD 911 Turbo when it has a little power vs 612Hp from Carrera!Why?Cause RWD is better?Dream on boy cause you are living in a dream...wake up...Veyron is 4WD and kicks stupid cars like Enzo, and Enzo is kicked even by supercars like Lambo LP640 BECAUSE OF 4WD AND THE PERFECT DIFFERENTIALS!Quattro and 4WD for ever will be the best traction on a sportscar...

chewym

January 27th, 2007, 23:23

The S6 isn't blazing fast in the straight line, but it has beaten the M5 in 4 reviews and even won outright with first place against the M5 and E63. The S6 has better braking and handling than either of those. Also on a race track, the S6 was only 1 tenth slower than the M5 (about a 60 second lap) but the E63 was far back. This is the test by Motor Trend.

MBCA S6

January 27th, 2007, 23:59

Yes and yes. Now that we own both an RS6 and S6, we'll see.

Note to Erik -- need an S6 Addict smilie flag, now.:thumb:

Congrats on the new S6. I just picked up a silver/black S6 a couple of weeks ago myself in the South Bay. I haven't yet seen another S6 in the L.A. area (I love that part...AMGs are a dime a dozen here) so I will be on the lookout for you. Enjoy your incredible car. I'm interested in how you feel it compares to your RS6.

AndyBG

January 28th, 2007, 11:55

Congrats on the new S6. I just picked up a silver/black S6 a couple of weeks ago myself in the South Bay. I haven't yet seen another S6 in the L.A. area (I love that part...AMGs are a dime a dozen here) so I will be on the lookout for you. Enjoy your incredible car. I'm interested in how you feel it compares to your RS6.

MBCA S6,

Congratulations on your purchase, I'm glad to see that S6 is going ''ibto people'' after all those ''bad words'' said about it...

I hope you are going to like and enjoy it !

Pic's are must ! :thumb:

darmawaa

January 29th, 2007, 11:48

Confirmed from Audi insider:
New RS6 engine: 5.2L FSI 550HP@7900rpm 530Nm@4500-6000 (same engine as new 2008 Gallardo)
I do not know what auto tranny it's use, hope they will use 7sp DSG from Veyron.

AndyBG

January 29th, 2007, 14:01

Confirmed from Audi insider:
New RS6 engine: 5.2L FSI 550HP@7900rpm 530Nm@4500-6000 (same engine as new 2008 Gallardo)
I do not know what auto tranny it's use, hope they will use 7sp DSG from Veyron.

That sounds like true to me...

Maybe I wasn't wrong, after all (5.2 V10 N/A - 520 hp)

Now, Quisha, your turn. :hihi:

Toto89

January 29th, 2007, 14:04

Interesting...I supposed that turbos will return to Audis, sorry to hear:noshake:
I hope it's not true and our other prediction about a 580hp biturbo car will be reality:thumb:

AndyBG

January 29th, 2007, 14:15

Interesting...I supposed that turbos will return to Audis...

Me too, but it looks like it's NO turbos, for some time now.

Leadfoot

January 29th, 2007, 16:48

That sounds like true to me...

Maybe I wasn't wrong, after all (5.2 V10 N/A - 520 hp)

Now, Quisha, your turn. :hihi:

Give Qisha time to reply, I bet it will be a good one.

Anyway until the car is be tested by the motoring press at pre-launch only then will I believe everything that an Audi insider says. Sorry darmawaa, nothing personal.

If Qisha says it going to be turboed I will believe it until unwise that is proved wrong. Oh by the way I said it would be 550hp quite a while ago.

darmawaa

January 29th, 2007, 17:37

I ask them before why don't they just put twin turbo on the S6 engine.
They said turbos and water to air intercoolers would add around 250-300lbs to the front axle.
Also, due to added torque of turbocharged S6 (maybe around 800Nm) they would need to strenghten all drive train (tranny, clutch , engine mount, center,front&rear diff&driveshaft, etc) which would add more weight to the car. In all we would see an increase of around 400-500lbs to the S6.

Using high rev engine they could retain the drive train due to the same torque as S6, and the RS6 engine should weigh almost the same as S6 engine.

They could even reduce front axle weight by using carbon composites on front fender&bumper and hood, and maybe some magnesium for front susp structure.
Maybe the RS6 could weight LESS than S6, like the C6 Z06 , who knows?

Personally I'd like a turbocharged engine, explosive torque and easy to "chipped" to economically add more 100HP and 150HP.

AndyBG

January 29th, 2007, 18:44

I would, also, like it to be turbo-monster, just like RS 2, B5 RS 4 and C5 RS 6 are, but I just don't see it coming...

No offense to anybody.

Aftert all, 520 or 550 isn't ''small power'' !

Leadfoot

January 29th, 2007, 19:03

I would, also, like it to be turbo-monster, just like RS 2, B5 RS 4 and C5 RS 6 are, but I just don't see it coming...

No offense to anybody.

Aftert all, 520 or 550 isn't ''small power'' !

Not "small power", but would it be enough to pip an M5 in the performance stakes?

550hp will turn into 430hp at the wheels or in other words roughly the same as what the M5 produces at it's wheels. Now that's OK if they can get the weight down but if not then turbos are the saving grace, all that lovely torque helps a heavy car overcome it's poor power to weight ratio.

So as I say, until I see it in black and white, I will believe nothing.

darmawaa

January 29th, 2007, 21:31

Not "small power", but would it be enough to pip an M5 in the performance stakes?

550hp will turn into 430hp at the wheels or in other words roughly the same as what the M5 produces at it's wheels. Now that's OK if they can get the weight down but if not then turbos are the saving grace, all that lovely torque helps a heavy car overcome it's poor power to weight ratio.

So as I say, until I see it in black and white, I will believe nothing.

Leadie, how about PP $10 to me if the new RS6 come out N/A, I'll PP you $10 if it's twin turbo. :hihi:

Aronis

January 29th, 2007, 21:57

Automobile, January 2007

In an article about the fate of the Bugatti...

"Engineers have focused on using Audi's 4.2-liter FSI V-8-which delivers about 550 hp in twin-turbo guise- as the powerplant." Discussing a 2 plus 2 front engine car as a Bugatti model.

So that is the RS4 engine with Twin Turbos which was my guess 6 months ago.

Mike

Leadfoot

January 30th, 2007, 16:12

Leadie, how about PP $10 to me if the new RS6 come out N/A, I'll PP you $10 if it's twin turbo. :hihi:

You see, gambling is against my religion as I always seem to lose.:rolleyes:

I am just saying I have heard from differing sources that the RS6 was going to be 5.0~5.2 twin-turboed. I know that there was many engines under consideration including a turboed RS4 V8 so if they have decided on a N/A version of the 5.2L they must have got the weight under control or either the estimates of what the car will cost have been greatly over-estimated.

But as I said I have heard different, so until the cars here I won't believe anything. But if your right I did at least get the power output correct, but was expecting a bit more on the torque front to keep the M5 at bay. Until we see how much torque is available throughout the range we will not know it's abilities. The problem is that in previous RS model they have always beat their M counterparts, so the belief have always been that this will always be the case, but maybe not this time round.

Who cares, we all know that overall it will be the winner.:thumb:

AndyBG

February 1st, 2007, 12:07

:addict: :addict: :king:

SoCal

February 6th, 2007, 09:04

Congrats on the new S6. I just picked up a silver/black S6 a couple of weeks ago myself in the South Bay. I haven't yet seen another S6 in the L.A. area (I love that part...AMGs are a dime a dozen here) so I will be on the lookout for you.

Congrats on your new S6, too. How do you like it? I'll be looking for you, too.

I'm interested in how you feel it compares to your RS6.

Hard to fully compare the S6 and RS6, since we're still just breaking the new car in. So far, but I'd say that the S6 feels a lot more modern and comfortable than the RS6. Really great interior in terms of comfort, quality, fit and finish in the S6.

Aside from the pure performance aspects of the car, which I mentioned in my earlier posts, I've noticed the following "little things" in comparing the S6 to my RS6:

-- S6 steering wheel is too thin; and I wish Audi had used the perforated leather from RS6;
-- S6 seats are much better and more bolstered than in RS6 (US seats for the RS6 were lousy);
-- IMHO, the S6 steering is overly boosted, which makes the S6 a lot easier to maneuver and park but much less communicative on the road, even at speed (not that the RS6 steering is its high point, either). For a top end sedan, even with AWD, I'd still like more direct steering and road feel, but the marketing people probably would say I'm in the minority, and the Audi is better than most rivals. No surprise - they're not Porsches. Frankly, the only Audi I've ever driven that had decent steering feel was the RS4.
-- S6 ride is great - excellent combination of firmness and comfort and very predictable suspension.
-- Transmission in S6 is very smooth, much more so than the RS6 tranny, but it has a mind of its own and tends to upshift too readily. After the break-in period, I'll explore the sport mode more in a different driving style and see if that fixes it. With paddles, I'm still getting used to the tight gear ratios of the 6 speed. In comparison, the RS6 shift map is one of the best things about that car, as it always seems to find and hold the right gear, especially in sport mode, even when not using the paddles.
-- RS6 exhaust note is sublime. The S6 exhaust, good as it is, can't compare to that low V8 rumble at idle. (My RS6 has the sound enhanced exhaust, which may help.) I haven't yet run the revs high enough to make the new S6 sing (since still breaking it in), though it sounds better than most other cars out there and much different than a regular A6. Gotta love that silky V10.
-- S6 throttle is much more direct and more linear, which you'd expect from a large displacement N/A motor with FSI.
-- New MMI interface, nav and reverse camera are great and very user-friendly.
-- CD changer in the glove box is kind of a pain, though the sat radio is fine. Overall, the S6 stereo sound is definitely inferior to the one in the RS6; good thing the exhaust sounds nice. I wish the B&O from the S8 was an option in the S6.

On the whole, we are quite pleased with our new purchase.

:0:

Benman

February 6th, 2007, 16:28

SoCal,

Excellent write up! Thanks for the pros and cons of the RS 6/S6 comparison.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

Mori

February 7th, 2007, 06:50

I totally agree on the directness of the steering of the S6 and the greatness of the one in the RS4. Had the same impression on Audi Driving Experience.

Leadfoot

February 7th, 2007, 08:16

Overall, the S6 stereo sound is definitely inferior to the one in the RS6; good thing the exhaust sounds nice. I wish the B&O from the S8 was an option in the S6.

On the whole, we are quite pleased with our new purchase.

:0:

From experience speakers need a breaking in period before they sound their best. New speakers make the sound brittle and overly bright but after 100 hours or so the diaphragm will have loosened and the sound will be smooth and deep, give to time.:thumb:

SuperstarDriver

February 7th, 2007, 09:06

i saw someone posted that the new RS6 will have the new Gallardo engine: 5.2l 550HP @ 7900rpm (normal aspirated) i like this ideea too cause i am inlove with normal aspirated high rev engines like the one from the RS4 but, their is always a but, my friend who works on the biggest dealer in RO told me again that he know from the official listing from Ingolstadd comercial chief development that the new RS6 will not have less than 560HP so 550HP is not a prediction at all and could even get more of those 560Hp like 580HP maximum he told me, this is the range of the power 560-580HP not less not more than this!So do not expect to not be a biturbo engine cause it will guys so just relax for now cause we have one month until the beast arives on the market!And even that stupid car without back differential like Porsche for example who actually knows to keep power down vs super burning tires BMW M5 even if the new M5 when he gonna arive could have 550HP could not beat the new RS6, i ASSURE U ALL!Yes i am NOSTRADAMUS and i know what would happen in the future...:)))

vec110

February 7th, 2007, 23:05

skiwi

February 8th, 2007, 05:23

fwiw, 4wd is banned in f1, and most sports-car racing categories...

but, to agree, 4 times 0 = 0

SoCal

February 8th, 2007, 07:23

One of the nice things about this board has always been the civility and respect people show each other, even if they disagree. Honestly, I think that some of the comments I just posted in another thread may be relevant here, given the tone of some of this discussion and how "SuperstarDriver" seems to attract more responses than are deserved (which is more than 1):

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86293&postcount=18

:music:

vec110

February 9th, 2007, 23:47

fwiw, 4wd is banned in f1, and most sports-car racing categories...

but, to agree, 4 times 0 = 0

yeah because of the cost! if they were 4wd we would see alot lower times at all circuits. but the lower budgeted teams would not be able to keep pace at all with the big spenders. i absolutely love awd i my last four cars have been awd sports cars...i live in new england with snow! but all that said the rs6 is the best grocery getter car!

and i dont understand your "4 times 0 = 0"???? please clarify....im new to the forum here. thx...

skiwi

February 9th, 2007, 23:59

4x0=0 means that quattro can't work when there is no grip. where quattro works far far better than 2wd w/traction control, is where there is >0 grip...

remember that traction control (so beloved of those who say that 2wd w/tcs >= quattro) simply limits power. as this continues you get to the point where there is none, and you go nowhere. as an illustration, on our allroad on a gravel road, i turn esp off as it cuts traction control in over rough corrugations (i.e. wheels lifting). standard quattro works much better in these conditions without esp trying to intervene...

SuperstarDriver

February 10th, 2007, 07:58

So like i saidQuattro is way better than the RWD traction...look at the time made on Nurbugring by RS4,M6 and M5...RS4beat the crap of both because of the Quattro and his efficieny!
7:58 --- 156.652 km/h -- Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI, 420 PS/ 1650 kg, Frank Stippler, (10/05)
8:07.76 152.041 km/h -- BMW M6, 507 PS/1761 kg, Prinz Luitpold von Bayern (AutoBild 02/06)
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg (sport auto 12/04)

now you see what is quattro:and RS4 has 87HP less then the M6 and M5 so...wanna tell me something more?

Mori

February 10th, 2007, 14:46

There's a big difference in weight as well. :rolleyes:

Find the Auto Motor und Sport test where the M3 E46 was faster than the S4 V8 in the dry and in the WET!

For gods sake man - quattro is great but its not GOD. I buy Audi's because of quattro but that doesn't mean I'm blind and stupid. RWD has its pros and cons, as does FWD. It all depends on who needs what so don't diss people who don't want/need/like AWD.

SuperstarDriver

February 10th, 2007, 14:58

no, i just wanted to MAKE A REMARKABLE THING...TO SHOW THOSE STUPID BMW ENGINEERS THAT BMW ARE NOT THE FASTEST, THE SPORTIEST CARS ON THE PLANET BECAUSE OF THIS STUPID RWD TRACTION VS EXTREME HANDLLING AND 100% POWER ON LIKE QUATTRO 4WD!BMW they always said...BMW is better, is the most performant, etc...but how the hack in the world AUDI S6 beat M5 at 4 categories by 5 and did this with a lot less power?WHY?CAUSE BMW IS SPORTIER AND GREATER?NOOOOOOOOOOOO...NEVER
AUDI IS THE NO.1 SPORTY BRAND!We are on RS6 forum so why the hack someone disagree with audi?You are an AUDI fan so learn to challenge other brand or get lost from this forum...this forum is only for AUDI FANS...sorry for saying that man but that's the truth!if you want BMW you go to M3board or M5board...if you want audi you get here and be like us!AND THE OTHER THING...NEVER EVER IN THIS WORLD BMW COULD CHALLENGE ENOUGH AUDI TO BEAT ON A RACE TRACK...S4 is not against M3...S4 is against 330i, M3 is against RS4 but not for long...the new M3 will not be against RS4 but the new RS5!And M3 Cabrio will be against RS4 Cabrio...that's it...try to compare them right man!And by the way S6 is not against M5 it's agains 540i....RS6 is agains M5...that's the way Audi did those cars!Did you understood?

Mori

February 10th, 2007, 15:06

M3 and S4 had both 344HP.

I'm not as limited as you - there are other nice cars in the world as well as Audi. There is even a section on this site for other high performance vehicles.

Why would I want to challenge another brand? I love S/RS Audis, Porsches, Lambos, BMW M3s, Lotuses, Ferraris, Maseratis and many many other competing brands. Audi is not the best brand out there - nobody is. Each brand has their own pros and cons, different philosophy and different products. If I want a traditional razor - I buy Gillette, but that doesn't mean I tell everyone that Wilkinson Sword is crap like a raving lunatic!

Mods: Why has no one banned him yet?

PS. How old are you Superstar?

SuperstarDriver

February 10th, 2007, 20:58

QUATTRO IS GOD OF PERFORMANCE AND STABILITY AND SPORTINESS AND HANDLLING OF ALL KIND OF SPORTSCARS!BMW is way down from the Superstar from Ingolstadd the AUDI A.G. whichagain will demonstrate how is to make the best sportscars in the world (for supercars they have Lambo's)...hmmm...S5, RS5, RS6, hmmmm....M3?WHO?I didn't heard of M3...what's that?:)))))The new RS4 from 2009 hmmmm...480HP hm...BMW SUCKS FOR REAL!!!
By the way mister inteligent i am 20 years old and i know what the hack i'm saying by driving all around almost every car on this planet exceptions are supercars like Bugatti Veyron and Ferrari and Pagani etc, the rest of cars i drive them dayling because i know a lot of editors in RO which give the cars for test drive to me first...and i'm not gonna tell my name if you want that!So shtttt..BMW sucks man, really sucks, no RW Differential like on Porsche's, no good interiors, ugly cars, not quite good quality of the materials, so where the hack is BMW in this world...of course, at the back of Audi performance cars!The only cars on this planet which definetly are the best supercars and sportscars in the world are:AUDI, LAMBORGHINI, BUGATTI, ASTON MARTIN, PORSCHE, MITSUBISHI EVO AND SUBARU, PRO DRIVE AND THAT'S IT MAN!!!!

Now let's get to the subject:did anyone knows if the new RS6 will definetely debut at the Geneva Motorshow side by side by the new A5 and S5?

Leadfoot

February 10th, 2007, 21:31

:noshake: Sorry SuperstarDriver but the M3 and S4 are direct rivals and not 330i. Mori is right, they match each other's performance and track times give or take a little bit, the M3 is a little quicker on the ring while the S4 is the quicker on tracks like that at Top Gear. The RS4 even though it out performs the M3 is also a rival, they both are, while the S4 matches the it's performance it doesn't match the extreme experience and entertainment that the M3 delivers but this is where the RS4 comes in.

The new 335i saloon is the S4 rival now that BMW has moved the M3's performance up to the next level, well that is until Audi give the next S4 it power boost what ever that will be and the battle will once again be back on.:wo: