S3 - Worldcarfans.com

[tazsura]

Is this the S3...or just an S-line Kit? Surely those wheels are not for the S3?

:confused:

www.worldcarfans.com

Taran :s3addict:

[mr]

I do think it's the new s -> most of the car looks just like it'd be an s-line ... but the front does strongly differ from it.


there were a few spypics posted in this thread some time ago.
LINK to thread (http://www.rs6.com//forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8238)

rgds
mr

[tazsura]

Yeh I think ur rite. The colour of the number plate surround is also different. Maybe this is the S3.

I hope they offer some different wheels....

Taz

[clam]

Even the uncovered RS4 prototypes had RS6 wheels on them. Perhaps they want to keep as much of the features as possible a secret, even though they are running uncamouflaged models (you can't test things like wind noise if you're not using the production body).
Or the S3 wheels are not yet in production, and Audi didn't feel like making prototypes just to make an appearance on their test cars.

[markwm]

Guys, this is the S3.

Go back and look at the yellow spy pics, and also the red S3 spy pic from Auto Express, they are fit exactly.

The only thing that strikes me as odd is that they are S-line badges on the car instead of S3 badges.

The wheels on the yellow car are the S8 style 18"s that will be standard. Not sure what wheels are on the red car.

Very dissapointing though because it looks hardly any different than the regular A3, where's the twin exhausts? where's the chrome mirrors? where's the flared arches and 19" wheels?

lazy!

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by markwm
Guys, this is the S3.

Go back and look at the yellow spy pics, and also the red S3 spy pic from Auto Express, they are fit exactly.

The only thing that strikes me as odd is that they are S-line badges on the car instead of S3 badges.

The wheels on the yellow car are the S8 style 18"s that will be standard. Not sure what wheels are on the red car.

Very dissapointing though because it looks hardly any different than the regular A3, where's the twin exhausts? where's the chrome mirrors? where's the flared arches and 19" wheels?

lazy!

The wheels on the red car are the same as the ones on the pictures Erik posted on the TT S-Line.

I hope that this is just a test mule and the final body kit is to be added, because if not it is one of Audi's worst performance model in the looks department for years. I for one would be cancelling my order if it was me. The only reason for this to be the finished look would mean that a beefier RS3 would be on the way.

You have to admit 260bhp is a very weedy addition to the A3 range.

[tazsura]

I still have a feeling (hoping!:bow: ) that this is just an S-line version. Both the red and yellow car have S-line badges on them rather than S3 badging and as Leadfoot has said those wheels seem to be then new default S-line wheels.

As for the power..i think 260BHP is a slightly poor effort. 270 would be more acceptable. Maybe Audi have decided not to market the S3 as such an expensive hot hatch and have therefore decided to skimp on the styling and engine tweeks? Thus, making way for the much more expensive and heavily worked RS3?

[clam]

The front bumper looks like a modified Caractere A4 bodykit, and the sideskirts too look like an aftermarket bit. The sideskirts have two levels to them. Looks like a modified version of the Caractere kit, with the airscoop removed.

The skirt on the rear bumper of the yellow car is not even painted in the same kind of yellow. And again, looks like a modified Caractere piece, that features the same shallow crease. But with one vital piece missing, that forms a frame around the fake defuser. You can still see its outline around the fake defuser (that is black on the caractere kit), where it was supposed to be attached.

The bumper strip is missing, leaving a row of circles that could be mistaken for parking sensors.

The S-line A3 is a far more esthetically balanced body kit. The parts of the sideskirts for instance follow a single curve, instead of looking like they belong on different cars. It's unlikely that Audi would go in a different direction from the S-line models, to something that is clearly not an improvement. I conclude that this is not the body kit of the production S3.

http://www.caractere.com/Gallery/000010/000082.jpg

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos/6060711.002/6060711.002.1M.jpg

http://www.meetingagenda.nl/images/articles/tuning/audi/0004-02.jpg

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos/6060711.002/6060711.002.mini1L.jpg

The original S3 has black accents to break the surface. It had black strips on the bottom of the side, and Tte front and rear bumpers also had black features to break the surface. Expect the same treatment for the new S3.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1622/audia3sline8gq.jpg

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/2685/audis30010ku.jpg

[markwm]

It is the S3, make no mistake about it!

Here's some facts...

1. The first ever spy pics we saw of the S3 back in jan/feb, the body panels are IDENTICAL to what's on this car, except the bumpers have now been painted.

2. Those original spy pics clearly said S3 on the steeing wheel.

3. Auto Express posted a tiny spy pic of the S3 a couple months ago showing only the frong wing and wheel. These also fit exactly with these new pics. The wheels on that car are the wheels on the yellow car posted on WCF.

4. A spec sheet detailing color and wheels was leaked a while ago in French or German, the spec sheet had a pic of these new S8 style wheels that feature on the yellow car

5. The current A3 S-Line exterior body kit hasn't even been out a year yet. Very unlikely IMO audi have developed a new one.

6. S-line models have only just been introduced into the A3 range, before that S-Line was just an option

7. One of the german car mags a few months ago had a render of the S3 on their front cover, it looks virtually identical to the spy pics, except it has ally mirrors.

8. If this isn't the S3, then that means the other spy pics weren't either. That means that we haven't seen a single pic of the S3 at all? a car that is due to go on sale in a few months?

9. The photographer who took the pics is pretty reliable.

10. Audi are getting lazier and lazier when it comes to designing.

11. The S6 and S8, the last two S cars to be released also have a chrome grille.

I conclude that this is the S3 ;)


The only issue I have with these new pics is that for some reason they would appear to be S3 badges on. Maybe Audi couldn't be arsed making new badges aswell? :-)

[markwm]

BTW, the image I posted above does make me feel slighty better, given that it appear virtually identical to the WCF pics yet it actually looks rather good.

Also, the angle of the WCF pics probably doesn't help, as you can see right under the car which makes it look like it sits real high.

I have one on order, not impressed so far, I'm waiting until I see the official pics and spec list. If it doesn't look any better than my A3 w/votex I'll be ordering a new TT I think :-)

[clam]

The TT-S seen in German mags also features a Caractere-style bumper.

The red A3 I posted above is the S-line. Completely different kit from what we see in the spy pics.

If the rear bumper isn't a modified Caractere piece, then what is the purpose of the imprint around the defuser? An imprint that is the exact shape of the frame on the Caractere. An imprint that the S-line bumper does not have.

Why does this feature, that is painted in the wrong shade of yellow, and previously unpainted, not follow the curve of the wheel well.

Why is the protective strip removed on the rear bumper?

Why does it ditch the S-Line sideskirts for ones that do not follow the curve of the door or the wheelwells? Are not straight as other S-line body kits, and look like the aftermarket pieces from Caractere? They go out, back in, and back out again.

Why does it have a grill from an (non-S-Line) A4? Count the # of slants. (the front bumper is a modified A4 Caratere kit)

You say Audi is getting lazy, but this is a departure from their normal design. Only the roof spoiler is similar to the S-line. They're not lazy. They actually made an effort to change a balanced design into something that even BMW would reject.

Why is Audi driving around undisguised over a year before the cars introduction (how old are the first spy pics). Especially since they've displayed so much effort in keeping designs secret, suddenly they decide not to bother at all. The first R8 prototypes came in the form of a stretched Gallardo, even though everyone already knew what it would look like. And even the current prototypes have a flat black paint job, with white dots and the aluminium panel painted over. Or a blue paintjob with flat black parts and tape. But for the S3 they decide to test it with the full body kit, and a nice paint job. I think not.

[markwm]

Originally posted by clam
[B]The TT-S seen in German mags also features a Caractere-style bumper.

Have you seen the RS4 grille and bumper? I dunno why you keep going on about Caractere



The red A3 I posted above is the S-line. Completely different kit from what we see in the spy pics.



Exactly! who said the A3 S-line kit has anything to do with the S3?



If the rear bumper isn't a modified Caractere piece, then what is the purpose of the imprint around the defuser? An imprint that is the exact shape of the frame on the Caractere. An imprint that the S-line bumper does not have.


So what you're saying is, all these car mags and photographers that have been publishing S3 spy pics, have actually being snapping an A3 with a caractere kit instead????



Why does this feature, that is painted in the wrong shade of yellow, and previously unpainted, not follow the curve of the wheel well.


If you look closely you'll see it actually follows the line of the side skirts



Why is the protective strip removed on the rear bumper?


The spy pics posted in Jan never had one either, neither does the S-Line exterior styling kit on an A3.



Why does it ditch the S-Line sideskirts for ones that do not follow the curve of the door or the wheelwells? Are not straight as other S-line body kits, and look like the aftermarket pieces from Caractere? They go out, back in, and back out again.



Why would they want to use S-Line bumpers? I don't get your point at all. The simplest way to change a cars look is to remove the bumpers and stick new ones on. Hardly likely they are going to keep the same ones that feature on the S-Line?



Why does it have a grill from an (non-S-Line) A4? Count the # of slants. (the front bumper is a modified A4 Caratere kit)


Have you seen the grilles from the new S6 and S8... ?? It seems Audi have started putting chrome grilles on their S cars, guess which kind of grille the S3 will have?



You say Audi is getting lazy, but this is a departure from their normal design. Only the roof spoiler is similar to the S-line. They're not lazy. They actually made an effort to change a balanced design into something that even BMW would reject.


But the only thing they changed was the bumpers? and to be honest if this car was an A3 it would be the best looking car in the range(except perhaps for votex A3s) but the point is this is an S3, needs more work!



Why is Audi driving around undisguised over a year before the cars introduction (how old are the first spy pics). Especially since they've displayed so much effort in keeping designs secret, suddenly they decide not to bother at all. The first R8 prototypes came in the form of a stretched Gallardo, even though everyone already knew what it would look like. And even the current prototypes have a flat black paint job, with white dots and the aluminium panel painted over. Or a blue paintjob with flat black parts and tape. But for the S3 they decide to test it with the full body kit, and a nice paint job. I think not.


Audi have a release cycle, those first spy pics were not just of the S3, but also of the Allroad quattrro which was too undisguised, that has been released.

I suspect the S3 launch has been put back due to the launch of the TT.

This is the S3, as much as I hope it isn't, it is and I'd put my house on it.

Someone will be telling us next it's a photoshop?

[Leadfoot]

markwm,

I agree, it might just be the new S3. I only hope it will look better in the metal than in the pictures. I still think that this is only a stepping stone to the new RS3, remember that the Golf GTI is getting a power increase of 30+hp next year and this will possibly be with no price increase or at most a small one. That would put it very close in performance terms with a heavier S3 260hp and awd. The new R36 will be with us in 2007 and it will cost about £26K and have 280+hp and awd, so even with Audi's brand image the S3 can't cost that much more than it and any case, why would VAG develop the 3.6L for only one model (R36), the answer is it wouldn't that is why there will be a RS3 and a TT/RS both running this engine but possibly in a different state of tune.

Also with the Golf GTI getting 230+hp, where will this leave the basic TT with it's 200hp and £5K more? I hope Audi will be offering this engine upgrade soon in the TT and if so the next problem will be where would that model leave the 3.2TT, the answer is probably slower and in need of a power increase as well. You see the knock-on effect this is creating. I know the TT will always be lighter than the Golf GTI and it performance should still be a little ahead but who would want to pay more for the sportier TT when it would have less power?

One thing I do like about what Audi are doing with it's new S3 and TT/S models are using lighter engines to help with the weight balance of it's sportier models. There is a shift in the way they are now thinking, before as can be seen with the S4/S6 and S8 the weight of the engine was less important because these models though sportier than normal where still classed as luxury first. But the new S3 and TT/S show sportiness is at the front (better handling etc.) so will this mean the next S4 might use a smaller engine in a higher state of tune than the normal top A4 with it's bigger/heavier engine? I hope so, it would be great to see the next S4 with a 3.0Lv6 twin/turbo instead of a heavier v8 or v10.

[clam]

Originally posted by markwm
Have you seen the RS4 grille and bumper? I dunno why you keep going on about Caractere


Yes, and there is a clear difference. The side intakes of the OEM Audis are rectangular, while the Caractere side intakes have a Lamborghini style shape with 5 sides.



Exactly! who said the A3 S-line kit has anything to do with the S3?


*The S3 and the S-line will follow the same design direction. That's the whole point of the S-line, marketing wise. Just like the BMW M-package is related to the M-cars.
There no reason why Audi would go a different way with the actual S-model, making the S3 so obviously uglier than the S-line A3.



So what you're saying is, all these car mags and photographers that have been publishing S3 spy pics, have actually being snapping an A3 with a caractere kit instead????


No, but the car is not uncovered, as they claim. It has been camouflaged with an aftermarket body kit. A very obvious one, to me.

So what is your explanation for the imprint around the defuser, that is the exact shape of the Caractere feature? No other Audi design has this feature. Some random shapes stuck on the bottom of the bumper. The only functional part being the hole cut for the exhaust.

A new post modern design direction for Audi, or just fake crap stuck to a prototype?



If you look closely you'll see it actually follows the line of the side skirts


The side skirts don't follow the curve either. The side skirts are the biggest tell. This car has two of them. The door get wider, then moves back in, and then get wider again. And the curves of the wheel wells are interupted. Not even the big round skirts of the original TT managed that. The gap under the bottom of the door is awefull, and all the lines that start there are a mess.

This type of sideskirt is a popular aftermarket feature inspired by the M3. But there is no way they belong on this car. Audi always has clean lines.



The spy pics posted in Jan never had one either, neither does the S-Line exterior styling kit on an A3.


The S-line A3 does have the strip. On some offical press photos it has been obscured, but it's there.

It's not really an important detail, it just tells me that this is a modified/custom bumper not intended for mass production.



Why would they want to use S-Line bumpers? I don't get your point at all. The simplest way to change a cars look is to remove the bumpers and stick new ones on. Hardly likely they are going to keep the same ones that feature on the S-Line?


(*)

I agree that the simplist way to change the looks is to replace the bumpers/skirts. Which is why they have camouflaged the prototypes in this way.



Have you seen the grilles from the new S6 and S8... ?? It seems Audi have started putting chrome grilles on their S cars, guess which kind of grille the S3 will have?


Chrome is not the issue. The grill is from an A4.



But the only thing they changed was the bumpers? and to be honest if this car was an A3 it would be the best looking car in the range(except perhaps for votex A3s) but the point is this is an S3, needs more work!


If they were lazy they would slightly modify the S-line kit. Instead they went an entirly different and strange direction.



Audi have a release cycle, those first spy pics were not just of the S3, but also of the Allroad quattrro which was too undisguised, that has been released.


The Allroad was presented before those "spy pics", and is out now. No need to disguise it.

This was in januari of this year:

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos/6060120.001/6060120.001.1M.jpg


It simply does not make sense at all for Audi to go in this design direction with the S3, and then drive around in the prototypes completely undisguised while the car is perhaps a year away from its launch.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. My money is on the S3 looking like the S6 or the S8. While you are expecting something like this:

http://www.tuning.sk/image.php?image=images/news/caractere_audi_a4_03102005/sub_audi_a4_kombi/audi_a4_kombi_caractere_03.jpg

... time will tell.

:trash:

[markwm]

clam, I find your comments laughable to be honest.

You think Audi has been using caractere body kits to disguise the S3?

"No, but the car is not uncovered, as they claim. It has been camouflaged with an aftermarket body kit. A very obvious one, to me."

Please point me in the direction of the aftermarket body kit fitted to the car? oh you have, already, it's a modified caractere kit right? :/

Audi stick on a kit fron caractere to hide the real S3 and then modify it?....If you wanna disguise a car you stick tape and cardboard on the thing! you don't buy in some parts from a tuner and modify them?

And as for me expecting a bling bling S3, where do you get that impression?? The fact is, the pics on WCF show nothing more than an A3 with different bumpers. A huge dissapointment I'm sure everyone will agree.

And FYI the exterior S-Line styling kit rear does NOT have a strip across the rear bumper like the regular bumper does

http://www.neteffekt.co.uk/gallery/audi/1164.jpg

[markwm]

Oh and btw, the caractere pic you posted. Just look how the front bumper doesn't in anyway blend in to the front of the car, it looks like it's been stuck on with super glue.

Yet looking at these NEW S3 pics the bumper integrates perfectly, just like the S-line front bumper.

I can't believe anyone would come to conclusions you have, I'd believe it was a photoshop before I'd believe it's an S3 disguised with aftermarket body that no-one can buy?

[clam]

The caractere photo is a photoshop of an official Audi press photo, as is customairy practice with all body kit manufacturers. Professional photos are not cheap, so they photoshop their kit on press photos of the manufacturer.


About the strip:

now it's here....
http://www.autoholic.de/images/resized/galeriefQdrpJlDcm.jpg

now it's gone...

http://www.autoholic.de/images/resized/Zze1aVMae.jpg

The magic of photography. Some cameras, in some circumstances, simply do not pick up the slight differences in colour, making the strip disappear.
Perhaps it's an option that I'm not aware off, like removing the badges. Like I said, it's not an important detail.

The press photos show no strips, but count the parking sensors on this official S6 photograph.

http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/04/audis6a06_101600.jpg


Your arguments are non exsistant. You just paraphrase me, and then say it's not possible.

Porsche is currently using an M5 body to test their Panamera prototype. Audi used a stretched Gallardo for the R8. And you find it unlikely that Audi would put fake bumpers and sideskirts on the S3 prototype? What is your reasoning? Too much effort to even put on some masking tape? They're just gonna slap on the final design, and not bother at all? In fact, it would probably take an extra effort to get hold of these part not yet in production. So they go out of their way to expose the final design.

You think it's logical for Audi to run a completely undisguised prototype a year before the model is launched? What is your reasoning? They dediced to take a postmodern approach, and make the model debut an anti-climax? If this catches on, the whole spy shot industry will collapse. And every design will be old before the car is new.

You think it's logical that Audi will abandon their own design traditions, featured on every S-model, and instead take ques from an aftermarket company? M3 sideskirts, Caractere front bumper, random shapes at the rear and nothing to break the surface. What is your reasoning? Why is Audi braking with their own traditions, and basic laws of estethics, and going out of their way to make to make the S3 design incoherent with itself and the whole Audi line up?


State your case.

- Why is it completely undisguised, a year before its launch? Even though other current Audi prototypes go through great effort.

- Why is Audi braking with tradition? Even though other new Audi releases do not.

- Why is this the first Audi to install sideskirts that go outside the curves of the wheel wells? Even though other new Audi releases do not.

- What is the purpose of the Caractere-missing-piece-shaped imprint in the rear skirt? Aerodynamics?


Why does all this seem logical to you? It's time for you to be on the defensive. I've made my case, time to hear yours. Short and simple please. Preferably single sentence answers.

:trash:

Hey look, the S3 is not out yet, and it's already entering championships:

http://217.160.73.76/Kampmann/Bilder/20060422/20060422_0281.JPG

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by markwm
Oh and btw, the caractere pic you posted. Just look how the front bumper doesn't in anyway blend in to the front of the car, it looks like it's been stuck on with super glue.

Yet looking at these NEW S3 pics the bumper integrates perfectly, just like the S-line front bumper.

I can't believe anyone would come to conclusions you have, I'd believe it was a photoshop before I'd believe it's an S3 disguised with aftermarket body that no-one can buy?

I agree that the Caractere bodykit does look like a added piece of kit, but you do have to agree with Clam that the two designs are very similar. Either Caractere have got a wind of what Audi was coming up with or Audi have copied Caractere. My guess is Caractere have copied Audi, and with the fact that it's design isn't as well integrated makes me think it was hurried into production.

I don't agree with Clam that it would be silly for Audi to design two bodykits S-Line and the S3, but if you look at the A4 S-Line to the S4, it is the S-Line which looks the sportier and this follows the same through the rest of the range be it A6 or A8. But this time it's the S3 which looks the sportier design, again unless Audi have shifted their position on that the S model means. From Lux/Sports to Sports/Lux, putting sportiness ahead of luxury, not only with how they drive but also how they look.

Upto now I have always thought of Audi taking the middle ground between BMW and Merc, but with Merc shifting to sportier designs and drives, Audi are themselves shifting ever closer to BMW.

[markwm]

I can't wait to bring this thread back to life when the official pics are released, given the lengths at which you've gone to to prove your bizarre theory.

If you cannot see the resemblence between the front of the S3 and the front of the RS4 then I give up.

Won't be long until the S3 is officially revealed.

And btw, the pics you posted to show that the A3 has no strip on the bumper, man that shits funny. How do you expect anyone to see it when you post a shot of the car side on? both those cars don't even look like they have the exterior S-line kit on anyway, which was the whole point wasn't it?

[mr]

come on guys - don't get offensive.

we're just talking about how the new S3 may look like - noone should attack someone else verbally because of sth. like that.

We all will see what it'll be like ... maybe a few of us are glad enough to get a ride in it when it's in the showrooms.



just my 2cnt

rgds
mr

[clam]

It does have the strip, and it is an S-line. The two pictures are of the same car, in the same location, in the same position. Only the angle of the photograph makes the strip disappear. But as I said, it's a detail.

I see the resemblance with the RS4; one grill + 2 side intakes. But I also see the big differences. The RS4 uses rectangular side intakes, with a grill that almost goes all the way down. The bottom line in not interupted.

While that prototype S3 has the aftermarket style intakes. With 5 sided intakes outlined by a big lip on both sides of the bumper, that move into the grill. This shape is inspired by BMWs ///M models.

I suspect the prototype is using an modified A4 kit with an A4 grill, which is why it isn't 100% consistant with the aftermarket A3 kits.
Some people make these things at home, so for Audi it would be no problem to modify an aftermarket part to fit their prototype.

The rear bumper is also a hybrid, b/c it has the shallow crease of the Sportback bumper, instead of the normal A3 one that has a deep crease to break the surface. The sportback has different lights and a wider 5th door that do/does not leave as much solid surface.
Though it would be possible that Audi has decided to give the S3 a modified Sportback bumper. But that would make the production process a lot more complex.

It seems as though Audi went out of their way to not break the surface at all. Everything that breaks the surface has been removed, and the rear is a solid surface of yellow from the window down to the strange shapes on the bottom. Which is the main reason why it is not pleasing to the eye. Esthetics 101.
The original S3 broke the surface with black accents. Idem dito for the RS6, which has a black/chrome strip on the bottom of the trunklid. The A6 has een deep truck, a sharp fold on the bumper, and a defuser type thing taking up most of the bumper. Idem dito on the new TT.

So while Audi's M.O. is to break the surface of the rear, they do a complete 180° on this prototype, and maximize it.

The biggest tell for me is that the front lip, the sideskirts, and the rear skirt go outside the curve of body. If the curve is a positive direction (on the horinzontal axle, relative to a starting point), then those features suddenly flip into a negative direction. From left to right, then right to left, and back again. This is common on aftermarket kits (b/c they are just add-ons that don't flow with the body), and BMWs, but a first in Audis design history. Audis aim to look like they were chiseled out of rock by only having solid uninteruped lines. Another 180°.

The combination of oddities...
- completely naked test cars, painted in a "everyone look at me" colour
- with a body kit that is objectively ugly and does not fit Audis design phylisophy
- almost a year before its launch
... leads to me to only one conclusion.

But as you say, we'll have to wait and see. If you don't retrieve the thread in a couple of months, I sure will.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/auform/A1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/auform/a2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/auform/a3.jpg

[clam]

black bumper insert to break the surface, check
straight curves around the wheel arches, check
single skirt, check

[clam]

check

[eazy]

Nice artwork clam :thumb:

[Leadfoot]

The more I look at the photos of the S3, the more I think that this design is possibly Audi's poorest design. This looks no better than a standard sport model. Oh yes the back is make an effort, but as for the rest, it looks like they run out of ideas.

I just hope it drives a lot better than it looks. I hate to say it, but VW are designing better performance model of it's stock models.

Audi please look at the GTI and try harder.

[markwm]

Well, that time has come. The first official S3 pics have been released and guess what?

It's exactly the same as the spy pics.

http://www.eurocarblog.com/post/419/audi-s3-first-official-photos

Sorry clam

[tazsura]

I must admit i'm slighlty dissapointed by the S3. It's not a very clean look at all.

I'm currently in the market for the previous gen S3 and think that the older car looks much cleaner and meaner.:s3addict:

One plus point is the interior on the new model.

Roll on the RS3...

[markwm]

So where's clam at?

:bye2: