What will be better next A5 or current RS4?

[Leadfoot]

What do you think will be better the next A5 with it new chassis, transmission system and magnetic ride or the current RS4. This is not about speed, but handling.

Since the brother heard that the A5 will be out late summer '07, he is having second thoughts about the RS4 avant he has ordered for early next year. He is now thinking that the A5 with the 4.2L FSI from the Q7 will possibily be as quick down any given road as the RS4 and so will be the better choice, not only for the fact that it will be brand new.

There is a lot of talk about the transmission system and where the gearbox and diff will be, but does anyone know if it will be like the TT, ASF construction or what will be the engine choices at launch. I know it's a year or so away about someone know about here.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
What do you think will be better the next A5 with it new chassis, transmission system and magnetic ride or the current RS4. This is not about speed, but handling.

Since the brother heard that the A5 will be out late summer '07, he is having second thoughts about the RS4 avant he has ordered for early next year. He is now thinking that the A5 with the 4.2L FSI from the Q7 will possibily be as quick down any given road as the RS4 and so will be the better choice, not only for the fact that it will be brand new.

There is a lot of talk about the transmission system and where the gearbox and diff will be, but does anyone know if it will be like the TT, ASF construction or what will be the engine choices at launch. I know it's a year or so away about someone know about here.

Easy, current :rs4addict Now next gen S4...


Ben:addict:

[gabbby]

I think the next A5 will be a really good car, because off the new platform.

The A5 with a V8 420 Hp will be really supérior to the current RS4 : it was no doubt about that.

But... this configuration will appear later. The first step is the A5 standard edition, with probably the actual power plant. The S5 might be as fast as the RS4, and the RS5 will be a really, really fast car, because the goal of a such version is to eclipse M BMW series !

Gaby

[Benman]

Originally posted by gabbby

The A5 with a V8 420 Hp will be really supérior to the current RS4 : it was no doubt about that.

But... this configuration will appear later.

Yes but the A5 will not have a 420HP V8. As you say, this will appear later as a S model, not an A model. The A5 will not best the current RS 4 just as the B6 A4 did not even come close to besting the B5 :rs4kiss: Now, the B8 RS 4... now that will be a machine(6 years later LOL)!

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Benman
Yes but the A5 will not have a 420HP V8. As you say, this will appear later as a S model, not an A model. The A5 will not best the current RS 4 just as the B6 A4 did not even come close to besting the B5 :rs4kiss: Now, the B8 RS 4... now that will be a machine(6 years later LOL)!

Ben:addict:

Do not think that the next RS models will be as long as the last ones.

[gabbby]

I think that the RS5 will come un 3 or 4 years, not more. The S version will come in 1 or 2 years.

Audi want to have this spory cars as flagship... so, we will see a really fast developement of new vehicles.

A5 : 300 cv V6 ?
R8 : 420 cv, lightweight
S5 & S4 : comething like 340-380 cv
RS5 & new RS4 : 500 cv

All this car should be delivered in next 4-5 years, as the development time is shorten with the new longitudinal modular platform.

Gaby

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Benman
Yes but the A5 will not have a 420HP V8. As you say, this will appear later as a S model, not an A model. The A5 will not best the current RS 4 just as the B6 A4 did not even come close to besting the B5 :rs4kiss: Now, the B8 RS 4... now that will be a machine(6 years later LOL)!

Ben:addict:

Ben,

I don't doubt the RS4 will blow an A5 with 350hp down a twisty road. But that's not my point, I'm wondering if with this new chassis/suspension/transmission configuration will be better balance and better handling than the RS4. Some have said it will have an ASF construction, if true this will help lower the overal weight and improve power to weight ratio as well as fuel economy. I doubt that a 4.2L FSI unit will be there at launch, but they might have a twin turbo 3.2L (300+hp)unit to match the BMW 335i and don't think the diesel lovers will be short changed with the 3.0d unit will be there and waiting in the wings a twin turbo version.

I know that the RS4 will still be manufactured for at least another couple of years at which point the S5/S4 will take over the crown as the performance model until the next RS arrives, but I believe the A4/5 will be as much an improvement as the new TT has been over the old one. If so don't rule out the next model being an even better drive than the current RS4 even if it won't look as sporty.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
Ben,

I don't doubt the RS4 will blow an A5 with 350hp down a twisty road. But that's not my point...

I understand what you mean as far as a dynamics point. But even if the the next A5 had the dynamics of a 3 series (which it won't) it would get toasted by the RS 4 just like a 330i gets toasted by the RS 4. Sure, the 330i might have better weight distribution, better turn in, but it is still short of the RS 4 in other respects.

The next A4/5 will be better, but there's no way it will be 50/50 weight distribution good. I'd be suprised if it could pull off a 54/46 weight dist. If it did, then that would be an achievment in my book.

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

In Autocar they say that the new A5 will be offered with air suspension as an option, something the next A4 will not (maybe it's to get magnetic ride) and they state that the engine is moving back 15cm :bigeyes: that 6 inches, the length of my :hahahehe: grin when it beats the 3 series in it's first test. This will mean that the front driveshafts have to work at an angle, this usually increases wear but Audi say they have fixed this and it won't be a problem. No word on engine choices.

The most interesting model which might be out in 2012 is the A2, looks a bit like a modern take on the mini. Sure to be a cult car for the future.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
They state that the engine is moving back 15cm :bigeyes: that 6 inches, the length of my :hahahehe: grin

Well mine is only 5.98... wait, we're talking about finger span right?

:D

As for Air Suspension, won't know how much I "need" that until my wife gets her Q7.

I'm not that overly interested in the new A5 as I am in the B8 A4 Avant. The wife is already complaining about me using her Q7 for towing my track car around and we haven't even got it yet! So... when the B8 is available, I'm thinking: A4 Avant 3.0 TDI quattro S Line for all my towing needs. Not to mention the next commuter car.;)

Ben:addict:

[chiphead]

The fundamental design of B8 platform is better than B7. Even Audi has admitted (off the record) that they made some mistakes with the current platform.

[tailpipe]

I'm not holding my breath on the B8 A4. Sure, it'll look good, but I think the chassis will still be a compromise solution. According to Autocar insiders, they have abandoned the more radical RWD layout they developed and are sticking with a traditional FWD solution that has the engine moved back a pathetic 15cm. The reason for this is simplified production. This will be a lot better than before, but still means it will still be nose heavy with a tendancy to understeer on the limit.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by tailpipe
I'm not holding my breath on the B8 A4. Sure, it'll look good, but I think the chassis will still be a compromise solution. According to Autocar insiders, they have abandoned the more radical RWD layout they developed and are sticking with a traditional FWD solution that has the engine moved back a pathetic 15cm. The reason for this is simplified production. This will be a lot better than before, but still means it will still be nose heavy with a tendency to understeer on the limit.

Tailpipe,

Yes, the car will have a tendency to understeer on the limit, but this is a thing that nearly all cars are designed to do, even the Boxster, Cayman, Z4M roadster and Z4M coupe all understeer on the limit.

As yet there is no word on what it will be constructed from, there is still a hope it will go the TT route with alloy/steel. 15cm with ASF construction would give the results needed to better the 3series. Just look what can be achieved, the new TT has just beat the Z4 Coupe in Autocar magazine, and you living in the UK know how great a result that has been, lets face it they are very pro-BMW in all of their tested. I think when EVO drive it the praise will be ever greater and they will put it up there with the two baby Porsches as a very good driver's car.

I have a problem with the quattro system in current form, yes it is very efficient at what it does, but why not make it able to moving the power 100% either axle like the EVO, not the 25% that is currently offered. I agree with the 40/60% split, this is the best mix for a front engined chassis, but if it offered total power to rear when needed the car would be more controllable with the throttle and with this be more of this so called "driver's car" that magazine tester love so much. One thing for sure, the engine move will help steering feel a lot.

I for one am glad that it's staying FWD for the lesser models, it means if they get this models to perform really well, the AWD cars will have a great platform to work from. Yes it's a compromise but why dump what has been very successful to them, the packaging of the current A4 is very good, there is none of the bad seating position that's the problem with the 3series and when they increase the wheelbase the comfort will improve as well as rear space.

[gabbby]

Hi !

Never forget that the quattro system is a torsen dif. It's an amazing pure mechanical system, greater than every electronic controlled system in most situations.

Why ? Because it is a mechanical automatic torques sender : there's no latency of a electronical system, no captors, no sensors, no delay. On the snow, the gap is really amazing : electronically controlled systems are bad...

So, it cannot send 100 % of the power on one axle, but it is the finnest repartitor !

I realy hope that they will build new A5 with combination of steel and aluminuim. The weight distribution is the firt factor for handling.

Gaby

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by gabbby
Hi !

Never forget that the quattro system is a torsen dif. It's an amazing pure mechanical system, greater than every electronic controlled system in most situations.

Why ? Because it is a mechanical automatic torques sender : there's no latency of a electronical system, no captors, no sensors, no delay. On the snow, the gap is really amazing : electronically controlled systems are bad...

So, it cannot send 100 % of the power on one axle, but it is the finnest repartitor !

I realy hope that they will build new A5 with combination of steel and aluminuim. The weight distribution is the firt factor for handling.

Gaby

I don't disagree that in snow it's better than an electronic system like the one in the TT, but when a system can't move the power totally to one or the other axel than it will not give total throttle control to the driver.

Yes, when it shifts it's power it's very fast at doing so and out of slow corners it does so in the most efficient way with minimal fuss, but it's always as if you (the driver) is not the one in control. Heaven for bid, they turn the Audi into a BMW, but I for one would like a bit more control in how the car goes round the corner while giving the added safety net of AWD.

The point I was making with the TT was that Audi have the ability to make a fantastic handling sportscar that has FWD in the form of the TT 2.0FSI-T, so why dump FWD for the next A4/5 and go to RWD.