sport auto out today - RS4 Nürburgring time included

[Erik]

Who in Germany subscribes and can tell us the lap time???

Pleeeeeeeeaaassssse!!! Schnell bitte!

:rs4addict

STOP PRESS!! UPDATED!!!

8.09 min - Audi RS4

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8399/2437651d1nv.th.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2437651d1nv.jpg)http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4921/2437703d0yu.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2437703d0yu.jpg)http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/3787/2437693a5ek.th.jpg (http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2437693a5ek.jpg)


:bye2: BMW M3, BMW M5, BMW M6 (tie), E55, SL65 etc.


At the Nordschleife the Audi RS4 can full advantagee out of its powerful 4.2-lites V8 engine which also will power the Audi R8. Thanks to the permanent 4WD there is no under- or oversteer, it just gets a bit unstable when braking very hard. The sports suspension plus and the optional Pirelli P Zero Corsa sports tyres allow the Audi driver to go to the limits and to be neary as fast a Porsche Carrera S at its home track.

Also fited with the optional cermaic disk brakes the RS4 showed no fading even at the race track.

The RS4 is no drift king so loses at a short track like the Hockenheimring against the more powwrful Dodge Viper but also handles better than such a heavyweight like the much more powerful Mercedes SL 65 AMG.

0 - 200 - 0 km/h in 21.8 secs., quicker than the Corvette C6 and the SLK 55 AMG thanks to the better traction of the permananet 4WD and the better brakes.

aerodynamic balance:
The RS4 is no super sportscar but a limousine prodcing no downforce at 200 km/h. It gets lighter in front than in rear thanks to the rear spoiler changing the balance positively.

1.25 max. lateral acceleration on track is not bad for a car that weigh 1728 kg. The Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres have benen modified and now offer a better wet handling than under dry conditions.

36m Salom:

the RS4 handles well, the adaptive damper control makes it as fast as the CLK DTM AMG, looks like the RS4 also is directly derived from the DTM race car.

At the wet handling track it even handles better than the Porsche Carreras and takes the provisional pole position for that test thanks to the 4WD and the new Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres

[Alex]

I am actually VERY excited!! :D I hooope that the test-car has the sport-chassi + the optional R-tires!!!!! Just want to get it over with, give us the time so that our hopes can be rewarded!! :rs4addict :race: :rs4kiss: :thumb:

[Alex]

http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2437651d1nv.jpg

[Fab]

It a very good time :rs4addict

great news

Thanks

[Alex]

M5 e60 -"eat dust" :rs4addict

:harass: M5

:applause: :applause:

[KK265]

0-200 km/h = 16,9 sec, shows very little improvement versus the previous model.I expected 1 sec better at least.Anyway the lap time is good.

[Hawk]

BMW M3 (2003)
Hockenheim 1.16,3 (Michelin Pilot Sport and stock brake)

http://www.track-challenge.com/tracktest2_e.asp?Car=236

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/5715/rs422bq.jpg

:vhmmm:

[QuattroFun]

M6 with Corsas 63 points vs. equally heavy and much less powerful and cheaper RS4 with Corsas 65 points...

:vhmmm:

[Benman]

8:09... great time! Well done :rs4addict


Ben:addict:

[M!]

Breat time....impressive.

[Leadfoot]

8:09, but what is the time for a standard RS4. This one has the sports suspension plus, the optional Pirelli P Zero Corsa sports tyres and the optional cermaic disk brakes.

There's no one more an Audi fan than me, but the old M3 CSL did a time of 7:52 and it didn't have cermaic disk brakes to help it along.

I don't know how much different the M6 is than the M5, but it's a handful around the twisty road and that is actually what the ring is a road course, so to equal the M6 was good, just not great. To equal the 997 S would have been better, to have beaten it would have been great.

The B6 S4v8 avant has done the ring in 8:27, the saloon might be a couple of seconds quicker and it had none of the above. Some on the forum have done times of 8:09 in a RS6 with the same tyres. Don't think that the new M3v8 will tie with this time, it will destroy it. The talk coming from Audi was a time of about 7:58 with the optional Pirelli P Zero Corsa sports tyres, so can someone tell me what when wrong?

[M!]

Indeed.The next M3 is gonna distroy the 8.09 time.
They have the experiens of the CSL so they know what to do for good time.
If the RS4 did it in 8.09 with the cheramic breaks and sport chassi, what time would the standard RS4 do?

Personaly i think Audi cars are to heavy to do really great times. Only the Quattro system waights about 150kg i think, even moore.
Even if the RS4 came with an "CSL" version it would be to heavy if you compere to the M3 CSL.

But 8.09 is a great time.

[Hawk]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
There's no one more an Audi fan than me, but the old M3 CSL did a time of 7:52 and it didn't have cermaic disk brakes to help it along.


7.50;)

[Leadfoot]

The CSL is unusual in that M3 did a time of 8:20 and somehow giving it 17bhp more, taking 100lbs off and giving it special tyres, it made up the best part of half a minute. I will never underdstand how.

Look at the M5 and then the M6, both basically the same car apart from the fact that the M6 weights about 100lbs less and has the same special tyres of the M3 CSL, but the difference between the two is only 4 seconds.

Now you see my difficulty, how come in one gains 4 seconds and other 30 secounds?:vhmmm:

[njaudi1]

I thought Frank Stippler did it in 7:58 with the rs4 :confused:

[M!]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
The CSL is unusual in that M3 did a time of 8:20 and somehow giving it 17bhp more, taking 100lbs off and giving it special tyres, it made up the best part of half a minute. I will never underdstand how.

Look at the M5 and then the M6, both basically the same car apart from the fact that the M6 weights about 100lbs less and has the same special tyres of the M3 CSL, but the difference between the two is only 4 seconds.

Now you see my difficulty, how come in one gains 4 seconds and other 30 secounds?:vhmmm:

M6 has not the same tires as the CSL!
CSL runs on race slicks that you cant even use in wet conditions.
The other main difference is that CSL is so mutch lighter than the M6.
M6 is 1710kg and the CSL is 1385! thats almoust 330kg in favor for the CSL.

My point is that it doesn´t matter if you put 800bhp in a M6, its still to heavy round a track, a CSLwith less power is still gonna be faster, basicly because of the weight.

[Benman]

Originally posted by njaudi1
I thought Frank Stippler did it in 7:58 with the rs4 :confused:

Yeah really, what ever happened to that?:vhmmm:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

M6 has not the same tires as the CSL!
CSL runs on race slicks that you cant even use in wet conditions.
The other main difference is that CSL is so mutch lighter than the M6.
M6 is 1710kg and the CSL is 1385! thats almoust 330kg in favor for the CSL.

My point is that it doesn´t matter if you put 800bhp in a M6, its still to heavy round a track, a CSLwith less power is still gonna be faster, basicly because of the weight. [/QUOTE]

You're missing my point. Basically the weight difference is the same between the M3 v CSL and M5 v M6, my point being how can the CSL gain 26 seconds basically down to a small power increase and slightly better tyres. Remember BMW said if the tyres were changed it would be 8-10 seconds slower, that still would leave a difference of 16 seconds between what the M6 improved?:vhmmm:

[IulianUM]

Good time! . :rs4addict
Is this the magazine that some of you were talking about some time ago? or are more to come.

I don´t think that the Sport Suspension makes a big difference , the tyres, yes(well, at least that´s what I have learned here).

And as I don´t understand German , what they said about the Ceramic Brakes? , Are they a big improvement? , what are the size? , and are just for the front wheels?

The RS4 on par with the CLK DTM AMG (I like that car) is great! .

Have a nice day . :race:

[gazzab]

Iulian,

They say there is no fade what so ever with the ceramic brakes, but they cost an arm and a leg.

Gazzab

[rks838]

I am slightly disappointed with the lap time, but only based on the previous rumors of a 7:58 time. I think Horst is getting a little old or something...the M5 supposedly got 8:04 with a driver like Stippler in it. As for the M3 CSL, I don't know how that ever got 7:50 either...but ya gotta admit, Audi fan or not, the new M3 will likely beat 8:09. When is that RS4+ coming out??? Still, a great time, I can't wait for comparisons between the RS4 and M3 to start in the magazines.

[KK265]

"Remember BMW said if the tyres were changed it would be 8-10 seconds slower"
So may i guess that RS4 with normal tyres can do 8:19?Dissapointing...

[Erik]

Originally posted by rks838
I am slightly disappointed with the lap time, but only based on the previous rumors of a 7:58 time. I think Horst is getting a little old or something...

HvS is not a race driver and the 7:58 was never an official time.
It was something I dragged out of him when we met.

BMW quoted sub/around 8 min track times as well for the M5 and M6.

Remember that the CSL is quite special, low volume very light and with very good r-tires.

[Erik]

Originally posted by KK265
"Remember BMW said if the tyres were changed it would be 8-10 seconds slower"
So may i guess that RS4 with normal tyres can do 8:19?

The BMW M6 did 8:09 with Corsas. (If I'm not completely mistaken)

Do you really think the heavier BMW M5 would be faster than the M6 if they put Corsas on?

[Leadfoot]

Guys,

I know 8:09 is a good time, but remember the M6 did it's time without special brakes. Maybe HvS's driving style doesn't suit the quattro as well as rwd.

The point I was making was the M3 CSL made up more time than just it's weight, tyres and power. There must have been something more in it's set-up to explain this time and it's price.

The only thing I would like to add is the brakes, tyres and suspension that was add a the RS4 adds up to £6K add this to the price difference between it and the S4. That adds upto about £1K per second gained, does sound quite alot.

Though it's still some £14K cheaper than the M6, boy it's sounds very expensive.

[Erik]

Nürburgring isn't exactly the kind of track where brakes are the most important factor.

[gazzab]

Guys at the end of the day who cares about the time, how many of us can drive the car to that potential. From all accounts regardless of the time it is a great car, it is still a fantastic compromise as a family sedan and track car.

Gazzab

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by gazzab
Guys at the end of the day who cares about the time, how many of us can drive the car to that potential. From all accounts regardless of the time it is a great car, it is still a fantastic compromise as a family sedan and track car.

Gazzab

Yep, your right, I'am silly dwelling over this, if you want a trackday car which is great on the road and don't have kids, buy a Porsche. If selling the kids isn't a option then buy a RS4.

[gazzab]

Agree Leadfoot, my wife is very happy that I am buying the RS4, 4 doors and a five seater, when I mentioned Porsche it was NO way.

Gazzab

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by gazzab
Agree Leadfoot, my wife is very happy that I am buying the RS4, 4 doors and a five seater, when I mentioned Porsche it was NO way.

Gazzab

I take it your kids are either very young and as such no trouble or their at University. Cause the in between years are hell.:cry:

The wife drives a Renault Scenic and to tell you the truth, I don't vacuum it out, I get the shovel and spade. I would like to get her an A3 sporthatch, but until they bring out a version like the LR Defender which you can jetwash out the scenic will have to do.

As for me it either a TT-S or a Porsche Caymen. I' am more on the side of the Cayman, 2 seats and no room for the kids.:hahahehe:

But I know it will end up being a TT, Audi is in my blood. Just wished dealer's treated loyality with better trade-in prices. :rolleyes:

[gazzab]

My wife has my hand down 328i, and yes it is treated like the dump, it is a health hazard, I think I will ban the kids from the new car, PB RS4.

Gazzab

[QuattroFun]

CSL is predictably in a different league withand with 300 kg less weight and on the Michelin Cups - on comparable Corsas it would still be faster if less so. Corsas are important for the NS lap time (old RS4 about 8s). Plus suspension is probably relevant (I certainly hope so at least) although M5 was in fact fastest on its softest setting. Ceramic brakes - a valid if expensive optional extra (in Germany, available at 5800 euros for the front ones only) - are not decisive for NS but they do come into play in other super test disciplines. Still, it is possible to spec the car like that and still be left with ample money vs. the M6. But where can I buy the all-conquering new M3 right here and now?

[Fab]

Originally posted by gazzab
Guys at the end of the day who cares about the time, how many of us can drive the car to that potential. From all accounts regardless of the time it is a great car, it is still a fantastic compromise as a family sedan and track car.

Gazzab

Your fully right no more to add :D

:rs4addict

[njaudi1]

I agree with all of you, but for the price and exclusivity it would be nice to have some good Bragging Rights:rs4kiss: :rs4kiss:

[Erik]

Originally posted by njaudi1
I agree with all of you, but for the price and exclusivity it would be nice to have some good Bragging Rights

How about:

My 4-door family car is as fast as the Ferrari 360 Modena on the Nürburgring?

:applause:

[Benman]

Originally posted by Erik
How about:

My 4-door family car is as fast as the Ferrari 360 Modena on the Nürburgring?

:applause:

:applause: Priceless!:applause:

Ben:addict: :rs4addict

[clam]

Don't forget that the M3 has a good weight balance, while the RS4 has a V8 hanging over the front wheels. The front tyres have to work a lot harder. No amount of suspension tuning can get the weight off the front. They can only compensate.

Audi has been able to eliminate the understeer, and it has done that by leveling out the grip balance. Not by making the front tyres grip more, but by making the rear tryes grip less. This pulls the car straight in the corners, but comes at a price. You're not using the full potential of the tyres.

Another way to compensate would be aerodynamics, or extra weight on the rear. That giant air scoop on the front of Audi S1 rally cars was there to push the front into the ground, but it wouldn't be practical for the RS4. And you pay the price in aerodynamic drag.
Extra weight on the rear, also, isn't something the RS4 needs. You would pay the price in acceleration.

Untill the B8 platform gets here, the Audis will always be disadvantaged by their weight balance. It's not something you can work around. Every attempt to compensate will have a negative effect on something else.

With the weight balance, the overall weight, and the tyres, the time of the CSL is easily explained.

[gabbby]

That's a really good time. With the crappy weight distribution of the A4, we can say the work of quattro Gmbh to develop the RS4 is really good.

I think that Audi want to be the sportiest car maker for the next years (it's what they clame).

What I've read about the upcoming RS5 is incredibly promising !

- aluminium ASF
- the new B8 platform with perfect weight ballance
- 500 hp
- 7 speed DSG
- 40/60 quattro with Torsen C

I hope they add the DRC.

Well... perhaps we will have the best serial car here. I think this new RS5 will be a lot faster than any BMW, and a direct competitor of the porsche turbo.

The CSL time is not surprising me : with a light weigt car and slick tires, there is no surprise. An RS4 with 200 kg lighter and slick tire will be as quicker, perhaps faster than this CSL (quattro is an real advatage)...

Wait and see...

Gaby

[Erik]

According to a magazine which interviewed Walter Rohrl, he was able to drive the new Porsche 997 GT3 in 7.42.

That's "only" 8 seconds better than the previous GT3.

[Benman]

Originally posted by clam


With the weight balance, the overall weight, and the tyres, the time of the CSL is easily explained.

Originally posted by Erik
According to a magazine which interviewed Walter Rohrl, he was able to drive the new Porsche 997 GT3 in 7.42.
That's "only" 8 seconds better than the previous GT3.


Bingo, good points:thumb:

Ben:addict:

[7:53 RS6]

The lower the time gets on the ring the harder it is to shave of time. Soon the cars will manage plenty better times but the drivers will not deliver:D Stefan bellof was a mad man!

As i guessed in the thread" RS4 nurburgring time " i was one second off, my guess was 8,08:hihi: Others was close as well guessing it time.

Now i want to hear what Buyalemon has to say, im sure he said RS4 was into smoking the of date CSL:confused:

Put corsa tiers on M5 and its faster than RS4 on the ring i guess.

Put cups on the RS4 and the time will not differ in any way to talk about. Put Corsa on CSL and its the same.

Peopel never driven the ring have hard to understand how hard it is to get a car under 8 on the full lap, they that driven there some undertand that even 8,09 is super time. BMW engineers have a very high level of knowlede of the ring, back in the days it was just them developing cars there, now the most is at the ring doing their thing. I know its hard for peopel to understand how truley special the CSL is, its not just the cup pulling it around in 7,50!!

GT3 380hp did lap 7,54 in street tiers. The GT3 RS lap in 7,48 in r-tiers. Horst is just showing in some way what potential a car has, other drivers go even faster, but Horst drive most so its as i always said the most fair it will ever get. If new GT3 go 7,42 its strong what ever the tiers its on.

I just now came from the ring and did do full lap in stock CSL in 8,20 to shave of 30second im sure it will keep me occupied for years to come as im just down at most once a year. Its scary but fun

:trash:

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by 8:05 RS6
The lower the time gets on the ring the harder it is to shave of time. Soon the cars will manage plenty better times but the drivers will not deliver:D Stefan bellof was a mad man!

As i guessed in the thread" RS4 nurburgring time " i was one second off, my guess was 8,08:hihi: Others was close as well guessing it time.

Now i want to hear what Buyalemon has to say, im sure he said RS4 was into smoking the of date CSL:confused:

Put corsa tiers on M5 and its faster than RS4 on the ring i guess.

Put cups on the RS4 and the time will not differ in any way to talk about. Put Corsa on CSL and its the same.

Peopel never driven the ring have hard to understand how hard it is to get a car under 8 on the full lap, they that driven there some undertand that even 8,09 is super time. BMW engineers have a very high level of knowlede of the ring, back in the days it was just them developing cars there, now the most is at the ring doing their thing. I know its hard for peopel to understand how truley special the CSL is, its not just the cup pulling it around in 7,50!!

GT3 380hp did lap 7,54 in street tiers. The GT3 RS lap in 7,48 in r-tiers. Horst is just showing in some way what potential a car has, other drivers go even faster, but Horst drive most so its as i always said the most fair it will ever get. If new GT3 go 7,42 its strong what ever the tiers its on.

I just now came from the ring and did do full lap in stock CSL in 8,20 to shave of 30second im sure it will keep me occupied for years to come as im just down at most once a year. Its scary but fun

:trash:
Horst will not go 7,42 in new GT3, he will add some seconds i think.

[roadrunner]

Looking at Walter Rohrl's best times (http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9096) at the Ring and considering he is one of the best drivers around - the RS4 8:09 done by the Sport Auto fella is a good time - on par with 997 Carrera S 8:05 and Cayman S 8.11 - driven by Rohrl

:rs4addict - now what time could Walter produce with the RS4? :incar:

[Leadfoot]

Was watching F1 at the weekend and was interested in the grid times. If you compare pole position with 4th on the grid, that is basically the difference between the time the RS4 did around the ring and the time of the 997 Carerra S, when you multiply the times up. Now that shows how little there is between any of this cars.:vhmmm:

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
Was watching F1 at the weekend and was interested in the grid times. If you compare pole position with 4th on the grid, that is basically the difference between the time the RS4 did around the ring and the time of the 997 Carerra S, when you multiply the times up. Now that shows how little there is between any of this cars.:vhmmm:

Have in mind the 997s was lapping 8,05 whit street tiers. It would go just under 8 whit the same r-compound that RS4 was driven on, Pzero Corsa.

[Leadfoot]

Fair point.:0:

[M!]

I wonder what time Sabine ( the ring taxi driver) would get with the RS4?
she must be the most experienst driver on the ring.

[Erik]

Originally posted by M!
I wonder what time Sabine ( the ring taxi driver) would get with the RS4?

Yes. We stayed in her house two years ago. We had the RS6 Avant with us and she was going to drive it. Unfortunately we had a flat tire so that time it wasn't possible.

But I'm happy to report that our "Mr Stig" was able to over take the M5 E39 Ring Taxi. Claudia (?) was driving the M5, but she's also a race driver. The only mod to the RS6 Avant was Corsa tires.
Unfortunately he pulled the plug on the video, he's better at driving than electronics...it would have been a great video!

All show...still full go!

http://www.rs6.com/pics/Various/NS2004/Ringen-20040289.jpg

[Erik]

I made an interesting discovery.

The BMW M5 made 269 Km/h over Doettinger Hoehe. Pretty fast for a "restricted" car ;)

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp?useframe=singletest3b_e.asp?Car=81

The RS4 made 252 km/h over the same passage.

[M&M]

The E60 M5 limiter kicks in at 270 km/h. Which may show up as 269 km/h on Sport Auto's V-Box.

[Angellus]

Originally posted by Erik
I made an interesting discovery.

The BMW M5 made 269 Km/h over Doettinger Hoehe. Pretty fast for a "restricted" car ;)

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp?useframe=singletest3b_e.asp?Car=81

The RS4 made 252 km/h over the same passage.

M5 Limiter is at 250, why dont you ask SoulbladeZA on Cartoday to tell you... his dad owns one and he gets to drive it often.

[Speedou]

Well, I have seen few times that M5 & M6 limiter kicks in round 270km/h. So I believe that is the reason.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Speedou
Well, I have seen few times that M5 & M6 limiter kicks in round 270km/h. So I believe that is the reason.

Though BMW state a top speed of 155mph, in the UK most of the mags quote the top speed as 165mph saying that BMW has easied the limiter on all M cars so they are a little faster than the normal range. So I believe the 269kph shown.

Lets face it, Audi's limiter have always gone higher than the 155mph quoted. It's a silly agreement between the German companies, as for Porsche, they just forgot to fit theirs.

[Speedou]

I totally agree :thumb:

[Leadfoot]

If I remember right, that's at the end of a very long straight just at the end of the lap. How long was the M5 on the limiter or was it just hitting at the end of the straight?

I just noticed what Erik said, the M6 ran Corsas and the M5 stock tyres. Surely 4 seconds is a very small time increase for basically the same car which has the added advantage of carbonfibre roof to lower centre of gravity and less weight to carry about. Maybe the M6's shorter wheelbase doesn't suit the ring, because though small it does accelerate quicker in between the corners.

7:53RS6 what your opinion on this?

[Erik]

The M6 I drove, the limiter kicked in at 269-270 km/h on the speedo. But how often is speedo = true speed?

[gazzab]

Agree Erik, most speedos seem to to an over estimate.

Gazzab

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by gazzab
Agree Erik, most speedos seem to to an over estimate.

Gazzab

I hope this doesn't start an arguement b/c it's not meant. But the two BMWs I had, their speedos always showed alot more than the real speed. I not know if this was down to the fact I ticked the optional bigger wheels/tyres.

[Erik]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
their speedos always showed alot more than the real speed.

The opposite is illegal here.

[exE46M3]

Originally posted by Erik
The M6 I drove, the limiter kicked in at 269-270 km/h on the speedo. But how often is speedo = true speed?

I'd say not often (if ever).

However, I was told that top speed in German cars is a particular case where the speed shown on the speedometer is the real speed when the limiter kicks in (i.e. matches that of the OBC).

[Speedou]

Yeps, thats true. My friends M3 takes to speedo 270 and real speed is 259 (GPS).