RS6 aftermarket suspension options [Archive] - RS6.com

minimad

March 13th, 2006, 04:33

Originally posted by Bauer
APR's kit is in fact a STaSIS kit that they sell.

http://www.stasisengineering.com/audi_rs6_c5_suspension.html

http://www.stasisengineering.com/images/Suspension_MS_Main_sm.jpg

STaSIS also sells the Alcon's for the RS6

http://www.stasisengineering.com/audi_rs6_c5_brakes.html

http://www.stasisengineering.com/images/brake_ms_main_sm.jpg

I have the Ohlins set up on my S4 and it is easily one of the best set up's out there. My wife likes the suspension in the S4 better then the RS6 and I am running 1200 rear and 850 front spring rate.

Once you drive a car with STaSIS Ohlins set up you will quickly see that it is money well spent. The adjustability of it is fantastic, with high speed(external damper) and low speed compression adjustments avialible. These are the same dampers that were used on the Champion RS6 race car, they also used the Alcon's

If you want infomation I highly recommend calling Jason @ STaSIS (707) 935 9700 x119. He knows the products VERY well... APR sales is not as up on them as STaSIS is.

Bauer, after two time failure on my RS6 suspension within 18,000 km, I am serously considering to put this Ohlins kits, but someone gave me an opposite opinion. This guy works in a racing team, so he has a lot of experience with Ohlins stuff. He said the suspension system is very good, but has to be carefully monitored by monthly basis, mainly because the air pressure may go unstable due to various reasons. So he think Onlins is not for everyday use unless you have your own technician.
So I like to consult more comments with people especially who has Ohlins on their RS6. Does anyone has the Onlins on his/her RS6, and how about durability issue?

Aronis

March 13th, 2006, 17:30

I was considering the Bilstein PSS9's but heard that they are a bit harsh!

Who Knows! But that monitoring issue with the Ohlin's is a bit concerning!

What are used in the S4 or S6? Perhaps just changing to those would be much easier and less hassel.

Mike

nene

March 14th, 2006, 02:15

I can't believe it is so hard to find an aftermarket suspension. I don't mind spending the money for a good one, say DRC like without the hassle.

I know there is a local shop in Framingham, MA that is able to find the best suspension, without making the car too harsh. They don't build their own, however depending on customer's requests, they find the best combination.

Let's keep this thread going, as I plan to migrate to a different suspension eventually. I don't want to use the word "upgrade" here, as I am extremely happy with the DRC suspension. I just hope we can all come to some conclusion as to advantages and disadvantages of the different options on the market. Not really looking at a pissing contest as who is best. Instead looking for folks true experiences with what they have for aftermarket suspension, to help others make their decisions.

So, tell us what you got, and what you REALLY like and dislike about the setup. The devil's in the details.

Here's an example:
When I had the 2000 Audi S4, I swapped the stock suspension for H&R Street coilovers. I loved them for the first month. Handling was great, and ride quality and comfort only slightly harsh. Well, after about 1 month on them, they got really bad. It may be that the uneveness of the Northeast roads may have got to them. I try to avoid potholes, however the roads up in Boston and suburbs are not smooth as on a track. I ended up having to replace 3 out of the 4 coilovers, and the worst part was the wait due to backorder on the item. That was horrible.
Took me about 3 tries of playing with the car height to get them where I liked it. However, the change did not really make it any more of a comfortable ride. All in all, not worth the $1600 I spent on them. I am sure they are great for track use, just not for daily use. Once I put the stock suspension back, all the rattles on the car were gone. And I mean gone!!! Best $300 spent to get the suspension back to stock.

Thanks all.

Aronis

March 14th, 2006, 02:32

I am slowly piecing more inforation togeter from various sources.

I was suspicious at the onset about the probability of AIR being trapped in the shocks after the DRC fluid leaked out.

Apparently there is a VERY specific process to follow when the system leaks that much. This is NOT in the CD ROM manual from eBahn. And it is not in the RS6 Self Study Guide.

I am convinced the reason why my car's syspension was still too soft (even before the system drained again from the front shocks) was due to air trapped in the shocks. When I drove the car last Saturday the Front was definitely softer than the Rear where new shocks were installed. Since the Air trapped in the front is more compressible than the DRC Fluid the entire system was upset and toooooooooooo Soft.

This makes sense and I can't wait to get the rest of the techinical information together.

Bottom Line: I was right all four shocks should have been replaced with freshly charged shocks. And ASSSS it turns out they could have removed the four shocks and recharged them on the bench top and got the AIR OUT.

We shall see, but I think after a few more cars get properly fixed, they will have another course offered to the mechanics on how to properly READ THE MANUAL before properly repairing the car.

So all you RS6's with normal DRC systems can rest easy since they will know how to fix it....now it's just a matter of PARTS........

Mike

jgun81

March 14th, 2006, 04:36

I noticed some noise(sounds like something is loose) coming from underneath the car when I go over bumpy roads. Does this mean my DRC has problems?

If my DRC needs to be replaced, then I am going for Bilstein because I don't have warranty, and I would not want DRC again which seems to be troublesome.

JAXRS6

March 14th, 2006, 05:37

Originally posted by jgun81
I noticed some noise(sounds like something is loose) coming from underneath the car when I go over bumpy roads. Does this mean my DRC has problems?

That's how my symptoms started. However, although the rattles returned & had to be fixed again, mine never got to a stage where ride or handling were noticeably affected. My fixes occurred at about 32K mi (took a long time to diagnose, ultimately with AOA's help) and 50K mi (quick to fix because they knew the cause).

Below is a thread I started in Dec 04. I first describle the banging rattle(s), before most of us knew DRC was the problem. In the last post I give a loose description of how the hardest-to-diagnose rattle was caused by failure of a DRC component in the rear of my particular car. However I would caution that I have since re-read the Pure Protection extended service contract I bought from my dealer and noted that "shock absorbers" are exempted from even the best Platinum coverage, which I have. And now I wonder if the $1K DRC valve I've replaced twice under warranty will be considered part of the exempted "shock absorbers." Ya think?

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5863&highlight=banging+rattles

Bauer

March 14th, 2006, 07:12

STaSIS has been using the Ohlins for over 5 years in their race cars and 3 years in street cars. Their failure rate is extremely low and especially on street cars. I have had mine on my S4 for almost 2 years trouble free(not the easiest use). Additionally, I believe STaSIS offers a lifetime warranty on them... which should help put your mind at ease. If you have questions call Jason.... If I were going to keep my RS6, they and Alcons would be going on the car with out a doubt.

minimad

March 14th, 2006, 08:10

Originally posted by Bauer
STaSIS has been using the Ohlins for over 5 years in their race cars and 3 years in street cars. Their failure rate is extremely low and especially on street cars. I have had mine on my S4 for almost 2 years trouble free(not the easiest use). Additionally, I believe STaSIS offers a lifetime warranty on them... which should help put your mind at ease. If you have questions call Jason.... If I were going to keep my RS6, they and Alcons would be going on the car with out a doubt.

Thanks! Bauer, I will talk to Ohlins's agent in Taiwan immediately, if they offer thae same condition as STaSIS does, I am more than happy to put the fine product on my RS6.

Aronis

March 14th, 2006, 12:27

The first thing I noticed was a thump from the rear passenger side. This was teh first warning that something was wrong. It then took about two days to begin bouncing as the fluid leaked out.

Get it up on a lift now and look at the bottom of the shock to see if there is any wetness. The fluid is very thin like mineral oil.

Mike

Originally posted by jgun81
I noticed some noise(sounds like something is loose) coming from underneath the car when I go over bumpy roads. Does this mean my DRC has problems?

If my DRC needs to be replaced, then I am going for Bilstein because I don't have warranty, and I would not want DRC again which seems to be troublesome.

Aronis

March 14th, 2006, 12:30

Yes, Stasis does have excellent warrantee and remember the shocks in that set up are not connected, so you can loose ONE and not loose the other three.

But with the stock system if you loose one you loose the second if not fixed that day and that mile.

Mike

I'm trying to find out of Audi EOM parts from the S6 or S4 can be used. That should not be a problem since the Bilstein PSS9 KIT is the same part number for the A6, S6 and RS6, so I ASSUME that the part from an A6 or S6 would fit just fine. Perhaps the handle would not be as crisp with the DRC swapped for S6 shocks, but at least it would be an Audi part and maybe THEY would pay for the repair and maintain a warrantee for the balance of the lease period.

Mike

LIRS6

March 14th, 2006, 14:00

I noticed some noise(sounds like something is loose) coming from underneath the car when I go over bumpy roads. Does this mean my DRC has problems?

Some owners have identified loose bolts on the steering bracket - check yours out immediately

Benman

March 14th, 2006, 17:07

Originally posted by nene

Let's keep this thread going, as I plan to migrate to a different suspension eventually.

Thanks all.
Agreed. I also want to keep tabs on this thread.:thumb:

Bauer, thanks for the Ohlins update!:cheers:

Ben:addict:

ott

March 14th, 2006, 17:27

I would not use S6 original parts. S6 suspension feels much softer, so probably it's spring rates are different. I would not want to go softer, considering that RS6 is also appr. 50 kg., heavier than S6. Even if RS6 springs can be used with S6 shocks, there will be anyway the issue, that shocks don't match with spring rates.

So aftermarket is IMO only way to go. Good shop should be able to supply matched shock&spring combo. Assuming that S6 suspension will physically fit to RS6, there should be much more choice than PSS9 kit. I have very good experiences with Bilstein products in my previous cars, but for streetdriven car I don't care much about the adjustability of the coilover system, as I will never bother to make any adjustments. Well performing spring/shock combination will do for me.

I'm in the same boat with "minimad", warranty is expired, so when there will be problems with DRC, I will definetly consider all possibilites. Seems that in bigger markets like US, most cars are still under warranty and that's why there isn't much first hand experience yet.

TaTaPiRaTa

March 14th, 2006, 20:48

Hi Friends!

I have rattles like most of you described (rear right, sometimes front, on bumpy roads).

After reading all posts I think this is DRC failure as I had my all shocks replaced under warranty last year and drove only few thounsand km since then, so it is imposible it is shock malfunction. Techs do not find any reason for the rattles...

In this case what do you suggest shall I try to repair (not under warranty anymore) DRC changing the valves? like some of you mentioned (know the price?)
or
shall I go for other aftermatket solution if the other is the way to go which one would you choose for bumpy bad roads in Poland?
I woud prefer to have the car stable on turns but not too stiff, meaning sporty but reasonably stiff - I will not race this car...

If anybody can summarize all the posts regarding replacing of DRC -> this would help many of us, please?

Shall I go Ohlis, Bilstein or any other stuff?

BTW: I don't want to lower the suspension.

:rs6kiss: :rs6kiss: :rs6kiss:

mi021le

March 14th, 2006, 22:37

mines the exhaust............ on bumps.

minimad

March 15th, 2006, 04:15

Originally posted by TaTaPiRaTa
Hi Friends!

I have rattles like most of you described (rear right, sometimes front, on bumpy roads).

After reading all posts I think this is DRC failure as I had my all shocks replaced under warranty last year and drove only few thounsand km since then, so it is imposible it is shock malfunction. Techs do not find any reason for the rattles...

In this case what do you suggest shall I try to repair (not under warranty anymore) DRC changing the valves? like some of you mentioned (know the price?)
or
shall I go for other aftermatket solution if the other is the way to go which one would you choose for bumpy bad roads in Poland?
I woud prefer to have the car stable on turns but not too stiff, meaning sporty but reasonably stiff - I will not race this car...

If anybody can summarize all the posts regarding replacing of DRC -> this would help many of us, please?

Shall I go Ohlis, Bilstein or any other stuff?

BTW: I don't want to lower the suspension.

:rs6kiss: :rs6kiss: :rs6kiss:

TaTaPiRaTa , don't be surprised, unfortunately, mine rear shocks were replaced 8,000 km ago, and now the annoying rattle come back due to the DRC problem. The sympotom is exactly the same as yours, sometime front , sometime rear. I did not believe that happen again, either, I left my car in the shop for two weeks, they do all kind of check to find the rattle. They took out the whole exhaust system and and re-install them trying to find any rub existing.
Finally they can't find something else but the DRC, that's why I would consider aftermarket product, after reading so many posts rgding DRC failure.
BTW, I don't understand why the rattle will move around, also why when temp rise (after 10 min driving), the rattle will reduce to the min. level. Even the shop can't answer that, now I am waiting for the answer from Germany.

audirs6sport

March 15th, 2006, 10:50

note: the bilstein pss9 for rs6 is same exact set for the a6/s6

stasis/koni setup for the rs6 claimed to be an entirely redesigned setup, which there's yet an evidence/track time/proof/etc...

Aronis

March 15th, 2006, 13:09

If they did not replace all four shocks when the replaced your DRC central valves and simply refilled them then I bet the internal parts of the shocks were damaged enough running DRY to show up as a rattle now.

Did you find your car to be softer after they repaired your DRC system? If so did it bottom out more often on rough roads? If so I'll bet my left nut you have AIR trapped in the top of at least one of those shocks! And AIR is not a great Hydrolic Fluid as it is too compressible.

Mike

I studied and taught Fluid Dynamics in Engineering School, BS in Biomedical Engineering, BU 1986, and that is why I get really angry when the Mechanics and Service Managers DON"T LISTEN TO ME.

Benman

March 15th, 2006, 14:56

Originally posted by Aronis

I studied and taught Fluid Dynamics in Engineering School, BS in Biomedical Engineering, BU 1986, and that is why I get really angry when the Mechanics and Service Managers DON"T LISTEN TO ME.
:thumb: Dang, didn't know that Mike. I'd pissed too if I knew all that stuff and they threw my opinions to the curb!:(

Ben:addict:

Aronis

March 15th, 2006, 15:08

They apply a Vacuum to minus 5 bar to suck the air/fluid out then let it refill from below!

This has to be done exactly correctly or air gets in. That is perhaps where it went wrong!

The regional rep pushed on the fenders and noted it was too soft (someone believes me at last) and then drove it and thought it was Definitely Not Right!

That was the best thing I could hear at least someone else drove the car and agreed it was not right.

Perhaps fixed today! but they still want the summer tires/wheels so I am bringing them this evening to a 1/2 way point.....

We shall see.

Mike:360:

Benman

March 15th, 2006, 15:12

Originally posted by Aronis

We shall see.

Mike:360:

Glad to hear... Good Luck!:thumb:

Ben:addict:

minimad

March 15th, 2006, 15:54

I saw a post in Chijnese siad that Bilstein PSS9( F4-GM5-8868-HO ) is too soft for RS6, Bilstein offer the same system for A6 2.4Q , 2.7Q , 3.0Q , S6 , RS6 and some VW models, the guy use one on his W8(1785 kg only), and feel softer than Koni even he set the PSS9 at the level 1 front, level 3 rear.
So how the distributor back up their product is the most important thing to me, I heard that Onlins' distributor agree 90 days free replacement for spring if we don't like the srping rate. We can choose the srping rate from 500lb to 1000lb. I am going to talk to Ohlins distributor tomorrow to see it's true or not. :dance:

Aronis

March 15th, 2006, 16:45

excellent info, that is the kind of feedback we need to make an informed decision!

Thanks.

Mike

Qisha

March 15th, 2006, 20:51

Dear Friends,

the Suspension Partner for Audi (ABT) is KW.

Take a look at the Competition Line Suspension Systems. These are adjustable in 3-Ways (rebound, pressure and absorption). So it should be no Problem to adjust the Shocks for each personal needs.

Also interesting:

http://www.kw-suspension.com/en/20_Technology/20_Salt_Spray_Test/index.php

http://www.kw-suspension.com/en/20_Technology/10_Damping_technology/15_Adjustment.php

For those who are willing to change from DRC, this is my Recommendation. It might be hard to keep the Faith in the DRC especialy with the collection of bad experiences, i understand. But i hope it will be fixed on the Cars that had the failure to bring back a Feature you all have paid for.

TaTaPiRaTa

March 15th, 2006, 21:25

I contacted 3 companies in Europe:

KW in Germany - they said they have no product for RS6, except the one they did for Clubsport which is no warranty, no TUV and rather noisy.

Bilstein in Germany - They said they have dealers in Poland but not more :( , so I asked again what they can offer without big modification to the way the car works now with DRC (no lowering, no stiffer,...)

Ohlis - Sweden - they said they have no product for RS6, but can do a custom made kit - I asked for more info.

This means Bilstein could have something for us but I don't know the details, it would be perfect not to lower the car by using stock springs. KW is rather out of question, while Ohlis can be done by Stasis only as the prepared their own kit - but this is too pricey for 3 years old Beast I think.

Can anybody describe more about Bilstein? Do you think it is possible to have Bilstein with no lowering and no stiffer ride?

Is there any other option? I don;t want to experiment with the Beast especially beeing like lone one in my country...

TaTaPiRaTa

March 15th, 2006, 21:32

Originally posted by minimad
TaTaPiRaTa , don't be surprised, unfortunately, mine rear shocks were replaced 8,000 km ago, and now the annoying rattle come back due to the DRC problem. The sympotom is exactly the same as yours, sometime front , sometime rear. I did not believe that happen again, either, I left my car in the shop for two weeks, they do all kind of check to find the rattle. They took out the whole exhaust system and and re-install them trying to find any rub existing.
Finally they can't find something else but the DRC, that's why I would consider aftermarket product, after reading so many posts rgding DRC failure.
BTW, I don't understand why the rattle will move around, also why when temp rise (after 10 min driving), the rattle will reduce to the min. level. Even the shop can't answer that, now I am waiting for the answer from Germany.

Exactly after some time of ride it rather goes away. I can feel it going away after half of hour of continous drive. It is also better when there is hot outside, worse in wintertime.

Please keep me posted about your answer from Germany. Mine shocks were repalced year ago like 8000km away while still on warranty, now there is no more warranty (2 years only) but I would like them to repair this thing as it is bad since a year. This is the only one RS6 they ever serviced, so I ecpect there is manpower problem. Let me know your status - I think more will benefit.

:rs6kiss:

Qisha

March 16th, 2006, 08:26

Dear Marcin,

you can go with the KW Suspension Kit made for the RS6 Clubsport, it is minor different to Part Nr.# 35210026.
The DRC has to be properly disconnected and closed.
In fact, here in Germany you will have to do a special TüV Approvement. This will cost you around 350 Euro. All you need therefore is a Certificate that indicates the Loading Ability for this Set-up (in this case: VA 1101-1260kg, HA 1200kg). This TüV Approvement will meassure the new riding height etc.

Yes, it is right, KW will give no warranty for this Set-up, it is made for Racing Applications only.

Since you do not want to lower the Car, this Suspension Kit is good to go. You can adjust the Riding Height from 40-75mm VA+HA.

ott

March 16th, 2006, 13:29

Originally posted by TaTaPiRaTa
I KW in Germany - they said they have no product for RS6, except the one they did for Clubsport which is no warranty, no TUV and rather noisy.

Did they tell the price ?

minimad

March 24th, 2006, 15:37

can't wait any longer for Ohlins' reply, the Onlins' distributor can't get right info for the RS6 spring rate. It seems they don't have any quick answer because lack of real world experience.
The PSS9 are in stock so dicide to try them on next Monday.

minimad

March 29th, 2006, 16:29

Originally posted by TaTaPiRaTa
I contacted 3 companies in Europe:

KW in Germany - they said they have no product for RS6, except the one they did for Clubsport which is no warranty, no TUV and rather noisy.

Bilstein in Germany - They said they have dealers in Poland but not more :( , so I asked again what they can offer without big modification to the way the car works now with DRC (no lowering, no stiffer,...)

Ohlis - Sweden - they said they have no product for RS6, but can do a custom made kit - I asked for more info.

This means Bilstein could have something for us but I don't know the details, it would be perfect not to lower the car by using stock springs. KW is rather out of question, while Ohlis can be done by Stasis only as the prepared their own kit - but this is too pricey for 3 years old Beast I think.

Can anybody describe more about Bilstein? Do you think it is possible to have Bilstein with no lowering and no stiffer ride?

Is there any other option? I don;t want to experiment with the Beast especially beeing like lone one in my country...

TaTaPiRaTa, I am glad to answer part of your questions ;)
I put the PSS9 on mine today(front 5 , rear 5), let's directly cut to the point, no lowering, no stiffer feeling, either. In fact, I am very pleased with the new ride of the Blistien bring to me.:incar:
The tuner told me there might be another part number other than my previous posted number, PSS9 has two model for VAG's, one for V6, one for V8, but today is too late to check the model number for me, I will figure out tomorrow.
The ride of PSS9 is way better than the OEM system, this might not be true to all, because I also put the set of H-Sport sway bar with the PSS9, there are total three person tested my RS6 today, all feel the PSS9 makes RS6 more responsive yet not so harsh, especially improve the jumpy feeling of the OEM system at great deal. In short, PSS9 is more compliant than before, but seems it can handle more at the critical extreme.
I will test more and post it later. No more worry about the DRC failure.
:race:

Benman

March 29th, 2006, 16:36

Minmad, good to hear. These puts my mind at ease if in fact the DRC takes a dump on me. Knowing that the Stasis and Bilstein set up are both sweet and that I have that option is good news.

Ben:addict:

Aronis

March 30th, 2006, 00:50

Originally posted by minimad

I put the PSS9 on mine today

VERY GOOD> I am very glad to hear feedback on the PSS9s.

I was told by a tuner that they are TOO Harsh.....as he was selling the other guys parts! LOL.

How much did you pay? The parts were listed as $1800 plus installation.

Mike

minimad

March 30th, 2006, 03:36

Originally posted by Aronis
VERY GOOD> I am very glad to hear feedback on the PSS9s.

I was told by a tuner that they are TOO Harsh.....as he was selling the other guys parts! LOL.

How much did you pay? The parts were listed as $1800 plus installation.

Mike

This is not my first PSS9, they are harsh on my Mini Cooper S, that's why I did not seriously consider them at the first place. I was afraid the beast will drive like a go-car:doh:

Fortunately, the PSS9 preform totally differently than the set on my Mini, firm but not harsh, responsive but absorb bump easily. Now I feel the beast runs slower than before at the same speed, you know what I mean, :thumb:
At less than helf of Ohlins' option, I got something very close to my cup of tea, and no more worry of DRC leakage, or air leakage from air-oil mixed system. I guess I will stick with PSS9 for long time.

minimad

March 30th, 2006, 08:00

I left the car and see the model number is : F-4VM3 5301-H0

TaTaPiRaTa

March 30th, 2006, 19:59

Thanks minimad !!

European part number seems to be: Bilstein - F4-GM5-8868-H0
Can anybody confirm this ?

Minimad can you tell us what are the settings options and which exaclty you use?

We have extreemely bad roads here and I'm afraid PSS9 could be to 'sporty'...

:rs6kiss:

minimad

March 31st, 2006, 03:23

Originally posted by TaTaPiRaTa
Thanks minimad !!

European part number seems to be: Bilstein - F4-GM5-8868-H0
Can anybody confirm this ?

Minimad can you tell us what are the settings options and which exaclty you use?

We have extreemely bad roads here and I'm afraid PSS9 could be to 'sporty'...

:rs6kiss:

TaTaPiRaTa, that's what I was told before that F4-GM5-8868-H0 is the correct parts number for RS6, but also I find several F4-VM3-xxxx-H0 stuff in Bilstein's website. It seems all VM3 stuff are PSS kit, not PSS9 kit, and the set on my car F4-VM3-5301-H0 is not listed anywhere in the website, I checked with the distributor, they import the kits from Europe, so the model number should not be confused:confused:

I can't precisely tell you what's the best setting you will get, because I had DRC + RS6 plus spring + H-Sports sway bars + MTM 10mm lowering kits as my previous setting, now I have PSS9 + H-Sports sway bars + MTM 10mm lowering kits. I set the stiffness @ front 4, rear 5, remain exact the same height as previous setting, under such setting, the car response less "sporty" than before, I was so surprised that PSS9 reacts a little bit less active than OEM system, filter small pithole in gentle manner, when I want to hammer it, the suspension make me feel more sure-footed than before.:incar:

chutia

April 3rd, 2006, 21:16

Originally posted by Aronis
I am slowly piecing more inforation togeter from various sources.

I was suspicious at the onset about the probability of AIR being trapped in the shocks after the DRC fluid leaked out.

Apparently there is a VERY specific process to follow when the system leaks that much. This is NOT in the CD ROM manual from eBahn. And it is not in the RS6 Self Study Guide.

I am convinced the reason why my car's syspension was still too soft (even before the system drained again from the front shocks) was due to air trapped in the shocks. When I drove the car last Saturday the Front was definitely softer than the Rear where new shocks were installed. Since the Air trapped in the front is more compressible than the DRC Fluid the entire system was upset and toooooooooooo Soft.

This makes sense and I can't wait to get the rest of the techinical information together.

Bottom Line: I was right all four shocks should have been replaced with freshly charged shocks. And ASSSS it turns out they could have removed the four shocks and recharged them on the bench top and got the AIR OUT.

We shall see, but I think after a few more cars get properly fixed, they will have another course offered to the mechanics on how to properly READ THE MANUAL before properly repairing the car.

So all you RS6's with normal DRC systems can rest easy since they will know how to fix it....now it's just a matter of PARTS........

Mike

RS6 Self Study Guide....??? pray tell, there is such a thing? and where might one obtain one from, please? (Hopefully NOT written by Audi dealership mechanics!!! LOL) Thank you.

mi021le

April 4th, 2006, 06:46

what ive heard about the drc from my audi mechanic is that the repair book, the instructions are writen wrong. he said that he originally did one by the book. about 4 months later it was back. so after a few times he called someone in audi who built the system and now he has nomore troubles. he said the fixing procedures was completely writen wrong. funny how if thats true audi doesnt fix that. or maybe they will with the rs4.

Spam16v

April 4th, 2006, 19:17

it's not that the instructions are incorrect, they just don't take in account for real world variables. in a lab, with brand new parts it's perfect. but.... with old oil still in the system and fittings not perfect and used valving aproprate actions must be taken. plus the tool to fill/evacuate the system isin't exactly great either. it serves it's purpose but if it were all earls fittings it would be better but the cost of the tool would be outrageous. i have reicently had the area rep come out and give me the "in's and out's" of real world bleeding, flushing and evacuating the system. the "rattle" you hear from the trunk that sounds like the spare tire is loose are the accumulators mounted to the spare tire well. from the factory they are charged with 16bar of pressure and the system itself is charged with 5 bar. this pressure differential on the seal on the piston is what fails. once pressure equalizes past the seal the piston will bang around and make a hell of a racket. if that doesnt happen it's the shocks that just bleed to death all over the damn place. KYB made the system what more do you want? just like a corporation to act like a government and buy from the lowest bidder. if you're in central CT drop me a line if you have a concern. if i can't figure it out, my TFM lives 20 minutes away and has alot of RS6 experience from quite a few disasters in the past.

chutia

April 4th, 2006, 19:28

One of the biggest problems I find is getting the dealership to actually accept that there is a "systemic" problem w/ a component or that anyone on this blog/board actually "knows" something that is actual and factual. This in spite of the fact that most dealerships, unfortunately but just a fact of life (it is what it is), have little experience with these cars due to the very small population out there that any 1 dealership actually services. Like I said: it is what it is.

Aronis

April 10th, 2006, 15:13

OH, missed that post, two above.

Making excuses for a MECHANICAL SYSTEM, and a relatively simple MECHANICAL SYSTEM. Metal TUBES, Metal Parts, Fixed Geometry, known Fluid Dynanics Priniciples, sorry the excuses don't wash with me.

I work with extremely variable systems, with many many complex variables, and yet I can fix it right the first time! Um...excuses EXCUSES......it's simple LACK OF EXPERIENCE FIXING IT. That will improve with time, Don't Make Excuses, accept the real problem, LACK OF EXPERIENCE, obtainn that EXPERIENCE,and become proficient at fixing the thing....problem solved. Train TWO or THREE AUDI Master Technicians to FIX that practicular sub system, put them on a plane, send them to fix the DRC, save the CUSTOMER A LOT OF TIME AND GRIEF.

Mike

puke:

Benman

April 10th, 2006, 15:45

Originally posted by Aronis
it's simple LACK OF EXPERIENCE FIXING IT. That will improve with time, Don't Make Excuses, accept the real problem, LACK OF EXPERIENCE, obtainn that EXPERIENCE,and become proficient at fixing the thing....problem solved.

Mike

Amen.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

ott

April 10th, 2006, 20:45

I was checking the part # for Bilstein coilovers and found that GM5-8868-H0 (http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/183/products_id/7635) is listed for A6 and GM5-8868-H0-A (http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/183/products_id/7636).
for RS6

Any idea, whats the difference ?

Aronis

April 10th, 2006, 20:52

Do those bilsteins have a reservour that you mount in the engine bay? If not looks a lot easier than the Ohlins.

Mike

ott

April 10th, 2006, 21:05

No they don't have remote reservoure

Found some pics of the car with PSS9 kit:

http://www.ts-alurad.de/galerie_details.html?id=41

Spam16v

April 11th, 2006, 00:13

Originally posted by Aronis
OH, missed that post, two above.

Making excuses for a MECHANICAL SYSTEM, and a relatively simple MECHANICAL SYSTEM. Metal TUBES, Metal Parts, Fixed Geometry, known Fluid Dynanics Priniciples, sorry the excuses don't wash with me.

I work with extremely variable systems, with many many complex variables, and yet I can fix it right the first time! Um...excuses EXCUSES......it's simple LACK OF EXPERIENCE FIXING IT. That will improve with time, Don't Make Excuses, accept the real problem, LACK OF EXPERIENCE, obtainn that EXPERIENCE,and become proficient at fixing the thing....problem solved. Train TWO or THREE AUDI Master Technicians to FIX that practicular sub system, put them on a plane, send them to fix the DRC, save the CUSTOMER A LOT OF TIME AND GRIEF.

Mike

puke:

there are 1200 cars with the system, you bought a limited edition vehicle and the limited nuber of tech's were trained but as in every industry there is a turn over rate. our RS6 tech no longer works at our dealership as many other dealerships. and among those 1200 cars sold at limited dealerships, the return rate to those dealers are limited if at all. some RS6 tech's never saw one again.... no one does have any experience with them, we admit it!!! you caught us!! you're tricky mike, not gonna get over on you are we. that's why the TFM came to Langan to work on your car and spread the info down there. he's suplied with a car and thats his job! he came up to Hartford and educated a few of us on the topic as i've got an RS6 in just as sad if not worse shape than yours. i just red ordered more parts from the "Mother Land" to ensure a one shot deal as they aren't in the country. i've been catching up on the vehicle with researching and training and been working on them actively as they have been in and out quite regularly lately. i've offered your assistance, provided contact info on two forums RS6.com and Audiworld.com and you continue to banter on childishy. your big bad daddy's letter to Audi AG isn't going to accomplish anything, being a "big time" laywer he obviously has no concept of once the car is imported to the US it is no longer a legal matter for AG. and last, do you want those TWO or THREE "master tech's" to come to your door, open it, meet you on the coutch and come get your keys too? on the way out the door we'll put the toilet seat down for you.

the offer still stands Mike, internet ego and all. want my cell number or are you going to continue being the big man on campus with a chip on your shoulder?

Benman

April 11th, 2006, 00:28

Originally posted by Spam16v
and last, do you want those TWO or THREE "master tech's" to come to your door, open it, meet you on the coutch and come get your keys too? on the way out the door we'll put the toilet seat down for you.

the offer still stands Mike, internet ego and all. want my cell number or are you going to continue being the big man on campus with a chip on your shoulder?

Well, this is going to get ugly...

Ben:addict:

Spam16v

April 11th, 2006, 00:45

im just saying how it is, im not trying to sugar coat it. you bitch b/c your car doesn't get fixed but just think about us. we're the poor bastards trying to fix your car. every post i've made on here and AW i've offered him assistance. come on down to the shop, look at your car, see it worked on whatever. if you've got the time we'll order pizza for lunch too. some people like to complain.

disclaimer: im a prick don't take it personally, relax.

Iâ€™m only happy when it rains
Iâ€™m only happy when itâ€™s complicated
And though I know you canâ€™t appreciate it
Iâ€™m only happy when it rains

-Garbage.

Aronis

April 11th, 2006, 02:16

Spam 16 V,

The issues I have raised here about customer relations after the sale.

I did not threaten or intiate any legal action against AOA or AG or any Audi Subsidiary.

This is a USER GROUP FORUM. User group forums on the internet are far more useful to users of various products out there than any corporate FAQ list or phone line.

The letters I sent to Audi AOA and my dad sent to Audi in Germany were needed to light a fire under the collective rear ends of AOA/AG.

They were NOT listening to the user, the customer, the person who has driven this car for 2 years, putting 30,000 some odd miles on the car.

This is not about expecting anyone to pick up the car, but I spent more time driving back and forth to the dealer than any customer should ever have to. When the first problem was pointed out to them they did not appreciate the level of disfunction of the suspension and were not prepared to give me a loaner car at that time, dispite the fact that they told the person at AOA A8 advocate line that they offered a car (this was probably a missunderstanding about the timing of when a loaner would or would not be offered).

Now Clearly it is one of the GOOD things that Audi even offers a Free Loaner Car. This is one of the Reasons why I choose AUDI, as BMW did not offer this at most dealerships (some do, some don't). Once offered you can't pull that offer back off the table and if it takes 8 weeks to fix the car, then 8 weeks of loaner is needed.

One of the things I was hoping to resist was this plain and simple fact.

I WAS RIGHT FROM THE ONSET, all four shocks needed to be replaced as well as the control valves.

This is not because the shocks were definitely bad, but in all likelihood at least one or two were going to be bad after being driven without any fluid in them.

Had Audi LISTENED to the customer perhaps the car would have been fixed in 10 days instead of nearly 8 weeks, and perhaps after the first two weeks getting the car back with new shocks all around and realizing that the CAR IS STILL NOT BACK TO NORMAL, I would have had the interest in wasting more of my time getting it fixed to like new condition. Instead they wore me down to a point where I now have to drive to Latham again to get my summer tires back.

You see, they wanted the summer tires to mount on the car to drive it with the summer tires to somehow PROVE that the real problem was my snow tires which dispite being the proper size as per the manufacturers side wall numbers, were TOO TALL and that is why the tires were rubbing so much. Again I told them it was RARE that they would rub when the snows were NEW and it lessened as the tread wore down, but when the DRC failed it was more and more frequent and now with the system fixed it is far too often. But I brought the tires/wheels to them (fortunately they were willing to send their driver to meet my 1/2 way, why they did not send this guy all the way is beyond me, what would the extra cost have been? two more hours of their drivers time, what 20 bucks, and more gas, what another 20 bucks?). When I told them the two rears were too worn to be used safely they DID NOT LISTEN, they wanted to MEASURE them and TAKE A PICTURE of them next to the snow tires to PROVE the snows were too tall. They did NOT put these wheels/tires on the car and drive it because, guess what, the tires were too worn to do so safely, AGAIN THEY DID NOT LISTEN TO THE CUSTOMER.

Now they have the wheels in Latham, so I sent the new tires there, they mounted them and balanced them, but they still have them. I have to now go get them.

So once the snows are off and the summer tires are on, I'll drive the car and then I'll see.

The Next DID NOT LISTEN is when I push on any fender and the car moves like an old FORD and compaired this to an S4 which was stiff as a ROCK. This did not even phase the service manager or sales manager, as they DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR and DON"T KNOW. Now maybe the S4 without DRC is stiffer than an RS6, but to the best of my recollection, the RS6 (at least mine) was that stiff.

Again they had worn me down, and I was just happy to move on. I have too much going on in my life to waste much more time with this. I am wasting my time typing this message because I have decided to keep stirring the pot on this DRC issue, because I feel there will be a proper solution.

As far as the limitted production is concerned I was concerned about that when I leased this car. They assured me and the rest of the 1200 hapless dolts that Audi had trained adequate mechanics on this car and it's systems.

This extra training is useless if they will not listen to the customer.

So some time in the next few weeks I'll find the time to go to Latham and get my summer tires, and we shall see.

I really want to find another local RS6 to put side by side and push on the fenders to put my memory to rest on this issue. I don't have the time to drive to Waltham this month but that would have been a good chance to meet up with actual Audi Enthusiasts.

So, you're admittedly a Prick, as per your own post, then perhaps you should stay out of the service industry, and stay in some back room away from customers.

Now You stating that "We admit it" when it comes to having enough experience with this car is useless to me and the rest of those with similar service problems.

We need to hear it from AOA, in writting, and it's called A Recall.

Stop making excuses for incompetence. This is not a bad word, just a discriptive one, if you cannot fix the product you are not competent to do the repair and vice versa, don't take it personally, just call someone who can fix it.

Mike

Spam16v

April 11th, 2006, 03:03

beat on thier ear all you want, a recall is not going to be issued. for example: there are how many 1.8t's in service? millions opon millions. there is a known problem sludge, how many years did it take for AOA to issue a bulletin? cars affected start in 98 and its 06 now? and those millions beat on AOA's door louder than a few dozen enthusiests with a limited production track car. sorry to be a downer, because id be thrilled to put in new suspension in all of your cars that didnt suck!(shouldnt say that too loud should i?) half of it's made by Yamaha and the rest by KYB. and the RS4 will be equipped with the same wonderful system. you would have thought that audi learned it's lesson with the first one. Audi AG doesn't have half the problems we have it seems, they all use a quality fuel, synthetic oil and service thier vehicles regularly unlike the average fat Burger King eating american. audi's are enthusiest vehicles and most of them are bought by AM radio listening blue haired retired people. call germany and tell them your AM reception sucks, they'll ask what the hell AM radio is? you can shout out a window and reach more people than with AM radio but our customers love Rush Limbaugh so that's where their efforts are focused. ratio is a million to one so you might call yourself Gandhi if you get anything done. hat's off to you, i have Audi's phone number and they wont listen to us either.

JAXRS6

April 11th, 2006, 07:40

Spam, your comment about the RS 6 being a "track car" makes me wonder how well you know the vehicle.

I for one use only top gasoline brands (Chevron, Mobil), use only synthetic oil, and I have yet to miss a scheduled service interval in the three Audis I've owned since 1998. And yet I have had so many problems with my RS6 that AOA granted a one year extension on my factory warranty.

I don't visit Burger King or listen to Rush Limbaugh, but none of that makes any difference anyway. Car care is not a factor of politics or eating habits; it's a factor of how much the owner cares for his car. But there IS plenty of room for improvement at the corporate level. I suspect customers, dealers and even AOA would appreciate more communication, more honest communication, and less arrogance from HQ.:D

ott

April 11th, 2006, 10:22

Not trying to play moderator here, but really, why we should have in every possible topic the "DRC" problems discussion ? This topic was started by me, to discuss what aftermarket suspension options do we have, not to discuss the issues with DRC and Audi service, which have been covered by many other threads...

I assume that in addition to myself, many members just have to find the solution, because they don't have warranty and this could be the topic, to discuss what could be the best way ?

May-be moderator is able to split this topic ?

TIA !

Spam16v

April 11th, 2006, 12:51

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Spam, your comment about the RS 6 being a "track car" makes me wonder how well you know the vehicle.

I for one use only top gasoline brands (Chevron, Mobil), use only synthetic oil, and I have yet to miss a scheduled service interval in the three Audis I've owned since 1998. And yet I have had so many problems with my RS6 that AOA granted a one year extension on my factory warranty.

I don't visit Burger King or listen to Rush Limbaugh, but none of that makes any difference anyway. Car care is not a factor of politics or eating habits; it's a factor of how much the owner cares for his car. But there IS plenty of room for improvement at the corporate level. I suspect customers, dealers and even AOA would appreciate more communication, more honest communication, and less arrogance from HQ.:D

top fuel in our country is piss water and sub fuel oil grade to the europeans, thats part of the reason why none of the diesels wont come over, they wont run on our terrible unrefined dirty fuels. and i was refering to the "average" audi customer which AOA is used to listening to. there are alot more of them than there are of you, i aplogize for not clarifying previously. and again, sorry for the off topic delerious rants OTT. and yes, tech's would love to have someone to actually listen to them, and a place for customers to bitch to, that would actually listen. we have to listen to you b/c there's no one else and they wont listen to us usually either. that's corprate america though, big business at it's best.

Aronis

April 11th, 2006, 14:20

Originally posted by Spam16v
there are how many 1.8t's in service? millions opon millions. there is a known problem sludge, how many years did it take for AOA to issue a bulletin?

EXACTLY. I did not know about this particular issue and after learning more about it I can say I would stay the hell away from Audi in the future because of this issue plus my RS6 experience.

Service after the sale is as poor as ALL automakers! It comes down to how much after market money you want to spend.

cars affected start in 98 and its 06 now? and those millions beat on AOA's door louder than a few dozen enthusiests with a limited production track car. sorry to be a downer, because id be thrilled to put in new suspension in all of your cars that didnt suck!(shouldnt say that too loud should i?) half of it's made by Yamaha and the rest by KYB. and the RS4 will be equipped with the same wonderful system. you would have thought that audi learned it's lesson with the first one. [/quote]

You'd think? How can you knowing work for such a company?

Audi AG doesn't have half the problems we have it seems, they all use a quality fuel, synthetic oil and service thier vehicles regularly unlike the average fat Burger King eating american. audi's are enthusiest vehicles and most of them are bought by AM radio listening blue haired retired people. call germany and tell them your AM reception sucks, they'll ask what the hell AM radio is?[/quote]

Are you in SALES? Because your salesmanship leaves something to be desired. I think most of those enthusiats who post on AW and RS6.com and others will be gunning for you.

I service my cars much more than the average driver. I change the oil every 5,000 miles and check all fluids etc, frequently. I avoid pot holes and if the DRC failed because I weigh 250 pounds, than TUFF SHIT, perhaps Audi should rethink getting into the SUV market if their suspension cannot handle a little heft. Excuses Excuses Excuses.

you can shout out a window and reach more people than with AM radio but our customers love Rush Limbaugh so that's where their efforts are focused. ratio is a million to one so you might call yourself Gandhi if you get anything done. hat's off to you, i have Audi's phone number and they wont listen to us either. [/QUOTE]

Exactly! So why do you work for such a company I ask AGAIN? I could not, would not.

By the way Rush drives several high end cars, among them a LEXUS and a MB (he discribes the MB as an OLDER car, classic). Wonder why he drives a Lexus? Perhaps the SERVICE AFTER THE SALE IS GOOD....He never mentions owning an Audi!

hm...........

Lexus......

To bad the closest Lexus dealer is an hour away, I WILL NOT DO THAT BS AGAIN. If they are not in town, I ain't driving it. And if you work at the dealership I'll pass.

Mike

Aronis

April 11th, 2006, 14:24

Originally posted by Spam16v
top fuel in our country is piss water and sub fuel oil grade to the europeans, thats part of the reason why none of the diesels wont come over, they wont run on our terrible unrefined dirty fuels. and i was refering to the "average" audi customer which AOA is used to listening to. there are alot more of them than there are of you, i aplogize for not clarifying previously. and again, sorry for the off topic delerious rants OTT. and yes, tech's would love to have someone to actually listen to them, and a place for customers to bitch to, that would actually listen. we have to listen to you b/c there's no one else and they wont listen to us usually either. that's corprate america though, big business at it's best.

Where the hell do you get your information?

The US Market DEMANDS far more processing and refinement than ALL OF EUROPE. Get you head out of there and stop sniffing your own fumes.

We have move special grades and special additive here then in ALL OF EUROPE combinded.

You'd better listen to Rush, you have a lot to learn.

Our fuels cost less than Europe not because their fuel is more refined, but because their taxes are even higher than ours!

Mike

Benman

April 11th, 2006, 15:46

Originally posted by Aronis
They assured me and the rest of the 1200 hapless dolts that Audi had trained adequate mechanics on this car and it's systems.

Hey! I resemble that remark!:trash:

Ben:addict:

Aronis

April 11th, 2006, 16:14

Ok another Three Stooges Fan...add that to the list of Fat Americans who eat at Burger King and DON"T change their oil often enough, list to Rush Limbaugh and drive Audis....

Hey SPAM16V what out for Moe, he's going to slap you.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaa...

LOL

Mike

Vegasguy

April 11th, 2006, 18:37

Originally posted by Aronis
Where the hell do you get your information?

The US Market DEMANDS far more processing and refinement than ALL OF EUROPE. Get you head out of there and stop sniffing your own fumes.

We have move special grades and special additive here then in ALL OF EUROPE combinded.

Mike

Actually this is not really the case, Diesel for example is already ultra low sulfer in europe, we are low sulfer. As far back as 2001 the US decided that we would go to Ultra low sulfer and have had to push out the deadline until Sept. 1, 2006. This will now allow cleaner (emmisions) burning vehicles.

Europe has much higher grades of gasoline and is refined cleaner, part of the reason we need all of the additives.

My car requires 93 octane, to get that I have to buy the best 91 available then add 4 gallons of 100 octane at over $5.50 a gallon or it retards the timing and I loose power, and yes, I can feel the difference on some tracks. Laguna Seca for example.

You are correct about the taxes though. We have much lower fuel taxes. But our roads suck in comparison. (in defense of that we do have a lot more road to take care of )

Aronis

April 11th, 2006, 19:50

Who uses Diesel?

One Word.

Teamsters.

Big Lobbying Group, thus they did not touch diesel, but we who buy gasoline.....watch out, they are adding 10% Ethanol....what will that do to the price as Ethanol production can't not currently keep up....and what will that do to high performance engines...

Mike

TaTaPiRaTa

April 11th, 2006, 20:29

PLEASE RETURN TO THE TOPIC !! :argue:

Vegasguy

April 11th, 2006, 21:09

Originally posted by Aronis
Who uses Diesel?

One Word.

Teamsters.

Big Lobbying Group, thus they did not touch diesel, but we who buy gasoline.....watch out, they are adding 10% Ethanol....what will that do to the price as Ethanol production can't not currently keep up....and what will that do to high performance engines...

Mike

Mike, you need to slow down a bit before you type, Repeat after me... R10, made by audi, uses Diesel, not driven by teamsters. Audi is a LEADER in new Diesel technology.
I used the diesel as an example of just how screwed up our fuel is compared to europe.

Back on topic now.

Spam16v

April 11th, 2006, 22:04

Originally posted by Vegasguy
Mike, you need to slow down a bit before you type, Repeat after me... R10, made by audi, uses Diesel, not driven by teamsters. Audi is a LEADER in new Diesel technology.

no they aren't, mikes RS6 isin't diesel so he doesnt care. Audi is holding back alot of diesels. they have an excelent recirculation system for solid particulate filtration but our fuel is filthy so it wont run over here, too much sulfur. come on there is a new Civic 4 cyl diesel now. wait till fuel is $4 a gallon this summer for NO reason. fuel costs have yet to change in years at the air strip for aviation fuel. it's called price gouging.

as far as aftermarket sugestions for the big 6, id go with Stasis personally due to all the race support and the nature of thier product. the percentage of people who ante up and buy Stasis products are using them for thier intended purpose rahter than to just slam thier car as low as it will go and effectively destroy the geometry and thier ball joints. to go much lower than factory ride height isn't all that benefical to ride quality or handling. half the folks on here actually own big dollar cars and know more than me b/c they acutally use them. my 2cents ON TOPIC

Benman

April 11th, 2006, 23:24

Originally posted by Spam16v
sugestions for the big 6, id go with Stasis personally due to all the race support and the nature of thier product. the percentage of people who ante up and buy Stasis products are using them for thier intended purpose rahter than to just slam thier car as low as it will go and effectively destroy the geometry and thier ball joints. to go much lower than factory ride height isn't all that benefical to ride quality or handling. half the folks on here actually own big dollar cars and know more than me b/c they acutally use them. my 2cents ON TOPIC

Once my RS 6 is out of warranty and IF and when my DRC starts acting up, that's the route I'm going...

Ben:addict:

Aronis

April 12th, 2006, 02:12

Originally posted by Vegasguy
Mike, you need to slow down a bit before you type, Repeat after me... R10, made by audi, uses Diesel, not driven by teamsters. Audi is a LEADER in new Diesel technology.
I used the diesel as an example of just how screwed up our fuel is compared to europe.

Back on topic now.

Er, I can type fast enough.....

Yes I know that more than just the Teamsters use Diesel, but the point I was countering that the US market Diesel fuel is not as refined as the Europian Diesel, which is due to the lobbying by teamsters to STOP anyone from passing regulations on Diesel, thus causing a raise in the price of Diesel in the US as compared to in Europe which any extra refinement laws can be passed without worrying about lobbying groups. Our Gasoline is as regulated and over refined and formulated than any where else. That is one of the reasons for the gas shortage Scare after Katrena struck, due to excessive restrictions on what gas can be burned where.......thus the arguement that somehow the cars run better in Europe because the gasoline and diesel is 'better'.....BS...

Mike

Topic jumping can be fun...