Aronis
March 10th, 2006, 12:25
Johan De Nysschen
fax number 248-754-6521
voice number 248-754-3349
His assistant is
James Cruse
This is the secret info you can't get from Audi's website and only can be obtained by screaming at the AOA PC clones.
I'm sending a long fax today to fill Johan in on my story.
I'm done, either all parts are ordered today and sent to shop or I want out of my lease.
I suggest we on RS6.com put together a petition of sorts and all of us fax a request for the DRC system seals to all be changed this MONTH on all cars.
This should be a recall
It's time for the Attorney's to step in.
Anyone want in on this?
Mike
Aronis@localnet.com
Email me.
The text of my letter:
March 9, 2006-03-09
Mr. Johan De Nysschen
Vice President Audi NA
By Fax: 248-754-6521
Dear Mr. De Nysschen,
My name is Michael Aronis and I believe you received a Fax from my father Ted Aronis last week.
At that point I was not yet ready to contact someone at your level in the company but at this point I am at my wits end.
I am completely dissatisfied with the service I have been receiving at Langan Audi East in Latham New York.
While I understand that they are trying, I am very upset by the fact that they simply do not listen to the customer.
I first began having this problem back in January around January 17th, when I notice my 2003 Audi RS6 was bouncing over bumps in the road. The car first began having a single thump or clunk in the rear of the car on the passenger’s side and the ride quality was noticeably changing during that week. I contacted Langan Audi East and they wanted me to bring the car in to have it looked at before any parts could/would be ordered. I went there that next week.
The mechanic and the service manager looked at the car up on the lift and the mechanic immediately pointed out that the two rear shocks were leaking the DRC fluid. He said the shocks need to be replaced, but this was before he consulted the service manual. The service manual showed a table which said to replace the Central Control Valves, recharge the system and then see what else would be needed. I said I thought the shocks were probably no longer salvageable as they were clunking. He said they had to follow the manual or Audi may not pay for the extra parts. I said “Order all four shocks, I’ll pay for them, if you end up needing them you can reimburse me, if not I’ll have four new shocks to use later if needed.” I offered this because I believed that the shocks all needed to be replaced since they were now low on hydraulic fluid and would be damaged. The manual (of which I have a copy on CD Rom) specifically said not to put the car on it’s own weight without filling the DRC system to normal pressure or the seals on the shocks could be damaged. So if the car has been driven low on DRC fluid, then it stands to reason that the Seals on the shocks would be damaged.
I asked if it would do more damage if I drove the car home and brought it back when the parts came in and they said minimize how much I drive knowing darn well that I lived 3 hours away from Latham. I asked about a loaner car and they did not have one available at that point. NOTE WELL THAT THEY TOLD ADELLA KIDD OF AOA that they DID offer me a loaner car – that is not true. Perhaps they were implying that a loaner car would be available when I dropped off the car the next week, who knows.
So I was called on January 31 and told the parts were in, so I brought the car back in on February 2nd. They had a loaner car for me.
They were also going to replace the On-Star module and On-Star backup battery which had failed the first week I got the car two years ago. I believe AOA knows about this On-Star issue and the many batteries changed in other RS6’s, etc. I told them point blank that they have to call On-Star with the new electronic serial number in order to reactivate the On-Star and I was told that that’s all automatic.
I got a call a few days later telling me that the parts were wrong, they had sent two LEFT control valves instead of a left and a right. The other parts (tow lines) had come in and the On-Star Module was there. On February 6th I got an email stating that the correct parts were now in and that the car would be ready in a few days.
I got an email update on February 10th and in that was told about road salt playing havoc with my car and that I should power wash the oil cooler and radiator often in the winter. I was told that the road salt was the cause of the shock leak.
That afternoon I got another email stating that the car was finished and I was planning on picking up the car on Saturday morning.
When I picked up the car on Saturday morning I noticed two things. 1. The On-Star had not been activated, and thus the cell phone and 2. The suspension was NO BETTER. When I drove off the lot I heard clunking in the back and the ride was too soft. The front end was squatting too much and bottoming out on bumps. On the highway it did not feel right and was too soft, bouncing after road bumps. I went back to the dealer to have the service person come for a ride. He too heard the thumping from the back. He tried to find the ESN for the On-Star but could not. He agreed that the suspension was not right.
I drove the car home on Saturday anyway to take some time to figure out what I was going to do next. On Sunday I dug the On-Star module out of the car since I knew where it was (I Actually READ THE MANUAL unlike the service department who ignored the big print telling them to call On-Star with the new ESN, etc.) and got the numbers and got it working as well as the cell phone.
On Monday I called Audi of Nashua in New Hampshire and they agreed to look at the car. Of course they too would not even consider ordering any parts without seeing the car first. I was told by Adela Kidd that Audi Roadside would not flat bed the car to Nashua, only to the closest RS6 dealer which is Langan Audi East. So I headed to New Hampshire which is now a 5 ½ hour drive and on the way got a call from Langan Audi who asked that I give them another chance. So like a fool I turned back and headed to Latham New York. After some conversations with the AOA rep they agreed to order the REAR SHOCKS but still would not grant my request that the front shocks be changed as well.
From the time that I had taken the car in for the first visit to the time I brought it back to have the first repair done, the front end had begun to bounce also which meant that enough DRC fluid had leaked at this point to empty the front shocks. Thus they too needed to be replaced as they too were driven without any hydraulic fluid in them and their seals were most likely damaged at this point.
They refused to yield to the pure logic of this that I was expressing and I told them I feared they would change the rear shocks and ‘fix it’ only to have the front shocks begin to leak themselves under the pressure of a dynamic system, that is, when the car is being driven over bumps the pressure produced with movement is far greater than that when it’s just sitting idle. That is the reason why there was not a puddle of fluid in my garage, the shocks were only leaking when the pressure in the shock increased as it was compressed as the car moved over a bump.
So I took the car back to Latham New York on that Monday and left it for them to fix. The new rear shocks arrived a few days later and they went to work on it. I got a call stating that the car was fixed but they could still hear a noise that they wanted to check out. By this point the regional rep had been dispatched to go check it out. I told them that I had dropped a small flashlight somewhere in back and perhaps that was the cause of the noise. It ended up being a tie down strap buckle that was under the back seat which was used to hold my son’s car seat in. The mechanic told me last Monday when he and I went for a ride that when he was finished he test drove the car and did not hear anything, but after the service manager took the car for a ride he heard the new noise. The service manager had folded the rear seat backs down and removed the carpet from the trunk. The mechanic figures that is when the strap got dislodged thus creating the new noise. They then spend another week re-bleeding the system trying to find the cause of that noise. The regional rep found the strap and all thought the car was 100%.
I got a call and picked up the car on Saturday March 4th. This was now 30 days from the original drop off date of February 2nd and a total of about 40 days since the first inspection at the dealership.
When I drove off I thought the ride still was not right, too soft for an RS6, but I could not hear any clunking, but still the front end bottomed out more often than it used to. I drove home the 3 hours figuring that was the best it was going to be.
Sunday morning I took my son to Sunday school and noticed that the car was now bottoming out more often than on Saturday on the bumps on my road and that the car was again bouncing. I took my wife for a ride in the afternoon, and I did not say a word about the car not being quite right. She noticed the car bouncing and bottoming out stating “it never did this before.” So after two more hours of driving be both could hear the fluttering noise from the rear, most likely from the control valves.
Monday I headed back to work (we are in the process of relocating from Malone to Johnson City) and on the way stopped at the dealer in Latham. They had to reprogram the car keys and I at that point wanted the mechanic to take a ride with me.
He drove, quite carefully and slowly on their ‘test loop’ without any highway driving, and noticed the car bottoming out on a few bumps. He thought it was the snow tires which he believed were the wrong size. He would not head onto the highway at my request and basically said he would replace the control valves again if I wanted. I told him I need for him to realize the suspension was not right and then tell me what must be done rather than have him appease me by simply doing that. I told them I’d drive the car for a few days and report back.
(The snow tires are the same size as the summer tires but I did notice that they were a little taller than the summer tires. The first season I drove the car with the snows (I put the snows on the same day the car was delivered to me in Malone as I had already bought them from the Tire Rack.) I noticed on one bump on one road in Malone that the front would make a strange noise – this sounded like rocks hitting some grill. In fact the RS6 front fenders have air vents which are grills that noise I hear was something hitting those grills, perhaps the tire, perhaps a small stone. I have never been able to see any surface in the wheel well which appears to be being hit by the tire and neither could any mechanic who looked for me. So I cannot say where the ‘bottoming out noise’ is coming from up front, but it’s there. Now on every bump. This second season the tires are worn and certainly not as tall as when new. This distinction is key as Langan Audi is saying the noise is because the tires are the wrong size. )
By the time I got back to Johnson City (a two hour drive from Latham) I could clearly hear the noise from the rear end which was now louder. The car was bottoming out on frost heaves on the highway. By Tuesday evening the front was more unstable and the car was now rocking side to side. By Wednesday morning it was clear that the suspension was not right.
I took the car to the local dealer, Empire Audi, which is also a Porsche and Mercedes dealership and had the Porsche Mechanic look at the car.
I looked under the hood and actually said he could smell mineral oil! The DRC fluid he thought! He drove it and at the first bump leaving the garage he said ‘this isn’t right.’ After a few blocks he noted the car pulling to the right, and kept saying this is just not right. Over a few bumps, the car bottomed out, mostly at the front driver’s side. He drove the car back and forth quickly and noted the car was very unstable, and when taking a highway on ramp at 35 he noticed the car loosing traction. He was convinced the car was definitely not right.
Back at the shop he put the car on the lift and looked and immediately saw evidence of a leak from the front driver’s side shock, and when he hung on the car and moved it up and down we could all hear the squeaking from that shock!
Now that mechanic did not want to ‘step on anyone’s toes’ so he declined my request that he phone the mechanic in Latham to tell him what he thought.
I phone the service manager in Latham, Patrick, and asked to have the car looked at again and that they replace the front shocks and perhaps the central control valves. In fact I asked that they order the new front shocks now along with another set of rear shocks and control valves, before I even headed to Latham.
I suspect that under normal driving pressures the front shocks had now begun to leak, driver’s side more than passenger’s side, thus the rocking side to side of an unbalanced DRC system. As the week wore on the system lost more fluid and the rear began to act up as well and the fluttering sound became louder as the fluid level got lower. I understand that there is now way that Langan’s Mechanic could have predicted this slow change as the system lost more fluid, but again at this point they are assuming the car is the same as it was on this past Monday.
Today they called back and said not to bring the car in but rather wait until the regional rep called them back. After speaking to the regional rep, they said they wanted me to bring the car in on Monday with the SUMMER tires on it! I explained that I cannot come Monday as I have surgery all day and now that I have started my new practice in Latham I do not have time to run back and forth to Latham. I was going to bring the car to them on Friday and not bother dragging the summer tires with me since they would not all fit in the car anyway! I would hope that someone at the dealership in Latham could drive a car like the RS6 and realize it is not right!
Tonight on the way home from the hospital I noticed now the rear shocks are again clunking and the front driver’s side shock is clunking. I fear the new rear shocks are now ruined.
At this point I am very dissatisfied and don’t want to waste any more of my time. I do not have another car to use as my wife is 5 hours away in Malone and I certainly am not going to buy or lease another car with this very expensive lease hanging over my head at a time when I am in the middle of starting a new job and relocating. I am unfortunately dependant upon the loaner car program that my dealer offers to have a car to drive! Otherwise I would have already called roadside assistance and had the car taken in. I certainly will not take any passengers in the car with me at this point as the car is not really safe.
I know the lemon law does not apply in this setting but I am very concerned that this car will never be right unless the entire system is replaced with new parts all at the same time. With the system now low on fluid the new rear shocks and new control valves cannot be trusted and in fact the service manual says to replace the control valves any time the system leaks as they are factory set at the proper internal pressure.
I have been in contact with other RS6 driver who have also had their DRC systems fail and in those instances the dealers have changed the entire system at the onset. Also one person reported that he too thought the car was riding softer with the new parts and said something about the system being changed to make it softer!?! This does not make any sense, but if it is true please confirm this rumor. I’d prefer the car back to it’s original ride quality.
This has gone past being a nuisance, the car is down right dangerous. If you cannot give Latham Audi the ‘ok’ to order four new shocks and new control valves and replace the entire system, then I want you to take this car back and end my lease.
I can be reached on my cell phone XXX or office XXX. Please call me once you have read this fax.
Sincerely,
Michael Aronis, MD, FACS
fax number 248-754-6521
voice number 248-754-3349
His assistant is
James Cruse
This is the secret info you can't get from Audi's website and only can be obtained by screaming at the AOA PC clones.
I'm sending a long fax today to fill Johan in on my story.
I'm done, either all parts are ordered today and sent to shop or I want out of my lease.
I suggest we on RS6.com put together a petition of sorts and all of us fax a request for the DRC system seals to all be changed this MONTH on all cars.
This should be a recall
It's time for the Attorney's to step in.
Anyone want in on this?
Mike
Aronis@localnet.com
Email me.
The text of my letter:
March 9, 2006-03-09
Mr. Johan De Nysschen
Vice President Audi NA
By Fax: 248-754-6521
Dear Mr. De Nysschen,
My name is Michael Aronis and I believe you received a Fax from my father Ted Aronis last week.
At that point I was not yet ready to contact someone at your level in the company but at this point I am at my wits end.
I am completely dissatisfied with the service I have been receiving at Langan Audi East in Latham New York.
While I understand that they are trying, I am very upset by the fact that they simply do not listen to the customer.
I first began having this problem back in January around January 17th, when I notice my 2003 Audi RS6 was bouncing over bumps in the road. The car first began having a single thump or clunk in the rear of the car on the passenger’s side and the ride quality was noticeably changing during that week. I contacted Langan Audi East and they wanted me to bring the car in to have it looked at before any parts could/would be ordered. I went there that next week.
The mechanic and the service manager looked at the car up on the lift and the mechanic immediately pointed out that the two rear shocks were leaking the DRC fluid. He said the shocks need to be replaced, but this was before he consulted the service manual. The service manual showed a table which said to replace the Central Control Valves, recharge the system and then see what else would be needed. I said I thought the shocks were probably no longer salvageable as they were clunking. He said they had to follow the manual or Audi may not pay for the extra parts. I said “Order all four shocks, I’ll pay for them, if you end up needing them you can reimburse me, if not I’ll have four new shocks to use later if needed.” I offered this because I believed that the shocks all needed to be replaced since they were now low on hydraulic fluid and would be damaged. The manual (of which I have a copy on CD Rom) specifically said not to put the car on it’s own weight without filling the DRC system to normal pressure or the seals on the shocks could be damaged. So if the car has been driven low on DRC fluid, then it stands to reason that the Seals on the shocks would be damaged.
I asked if it would do more damage if I drove the car home and brought it back when the parts came in and they said minimize how much I drive knowing darn well that I lived 3 hours away from Latham. I asked about a loaner car and they did not have one available at that point. NOTE WELL THAT THEY TOLD ADELLA KIDD OF AOA that they DID offer me a loaner car – that is not true. Perhaps they were implying that a loaner car would be available when I dropped off the car the next week, who knows.
So I was called on January 31 and told the parts were in, so I brought the car back in on February 2nd. They had a loaner car for me.
They were also going to replace the On-Star module and On-Star backup battery which had failed the first week I got the car two years ago. I believe AOA knows about this On-Star issue and the many batteries changed in other RS6’s, etc. I told them point blank that they have to call On-Star with the new electronic serial number in order to reactivate the On-Star and I was told that that’s all automatic.
I got a call a few days later telling me that the parts were wrong, they had sent two LEFT control valves instead of a left and a right. The other parts (tow lines) had come in and the On-Star Module was there. On February 6th I got an email stating that the correct parts were now in and that the car would be ready in a few days.
I got an email update on February 10th and in that was told about road salt playing havoc with my car and that I should power wash the oil cooler and radiator often in the winter. I was told that the road salt was the cause of the shock leak.
That afternoon I got another email stating that the car was finished and I was planning on picking up the car on Saturday morning.
When I picked up the car on Saturday morning I noticed two things. 1. The On-Star had not been activated, and thus the cell phone and 2. The suspension was NO BETTER. When I drove off the lot I heard clunking in the back and the ride was too soft. The front end was squatting too much and bottoming out on bumps. On the highway it did not feel right and was too soft, bouncing after road bumps. I went back to the dealer to have the service person come for a ride. He too heard the thumping from the back. He tried to find the ESN for the On-Star but could not. He agreed that the suspension was not right.
I drove the car home on Saturday anyway to take some time to figure out what I was going to do next. On Sunday I dug the On-Star module out of the car since I knew where it was (I Actually READ THE MANUAL unlike the service department who ignored the big print telling them to call On-Star with the new ESN, etc.) and got the numbers and got it working as well as the cell phone.
On Monday I called Audi of Nashua in New Hampshire and they agreed to look at the car. Of course they too would not even consider ordering any parts without seeing the car first. I was told by Adela Kidd that Audi Roadside would not flat bed the car to Nashua, only to the closest RS6 dealer which is Langan Audi East. So I headed to New Hampshire which is now a 5 ½ hour drive and on the way got a call from Langan Audi who asked that I give them another chance. So like a fool I turned back and headed to Latham New York. After some conversations with the AOA rep they agreed to order the REAR SHOCKS but still would not grant my request that the front shocks be changed as well.
From the time that I had taken the car in for the first visit to the time I brought it back to have the first repair done, the front end had begun to bounce also which meant that enough DRC fluid had leaked at this point to empty the front shocks. Thus they too needed to be replaced as they too were driven without any hydraulic fluid in them and their seals were most likely damaged at this point.
They refused to yield to the pure logic of this that I was expressing and I told them I feared they would change the rear shocks and ‘fix it’ only to have the front shocks begin to leak themselves under the pressure of a dynamic system, that is, when the car is being driven over bumps the pressure produced with movement is far greater than that when it’s just sitting idle. That is the reason why there was not a puddle of fluid in my garage, the shocks were only leaking when the pressure in the shock increased as it was compressed as the car moved over a bump.
So I took the car back to Latham New York on that Monday and left it for them to fix. The new rear shocks arrived a few days later and they went to work on it. I got a call stating that the car was fixed but they could still hear a noise that they wanted to check out. By this point the regional rep had been dispatched to go check it out. I told them that I had dropped a small flashlight somewhere in back and perhaps that was the cause of the noise. It ended up being a tie down strap buckle that was under the back seat which was used to hold my son’s car seat in. The mechanic told me last Monday when he and I went for a ride that when he was finished he test drove the car and did not hear anything, but after the service manager took the car for a ride he heard the new noise. The service manager had folded the rear seat backs down and removed the carpet from the trunk. The mechanic figures that is when the strap got dislodged thus creating the new noise. They then spend another week re-bleeding the system trying to find the cause of that noise. The regional rep found the strap and all thought the car was 100%.
I got a call and picked up the car on Saturday March 4th. This was now 30 days from the original drop off date of February 2nd and a total of about 40 days since the first inspection at the dealership.
When I drove off I thought the ride still was not right, too soft for an RS6, but I could not hear any clunking, but still the front end bottomed out more often than it used to. I drove home the 3 hours figuring that was the best it was going to be.
Sunday morning I took my son to Sunday school and noticed that the car was now bottoming out more often than on Saturday on the bumps on my road and that the car was again bouncing. I took my wife for a ride in the afternoon, and I did not say a word about the car not being quite right. She noticed the car bouncing and bottoming out stating “it never did this before.” So after two more hours of driving be both could hear the fluttering noise from the rear, most likely from the control valves.
Monday I headed back to work (we are in the process of relocating from Malone to Johnson City) and on the way stopped at the dealer in Latham. They had to reprogram the car keys and I at that point wanted the mechanic to take a ride with me.
He drove, quite carefully and slowly on their ‘test loop’ without any highway driving, and noticed the car bottoming out on a few bumps. He thought it was the snow tires which he believed were the wrong size. He would not head onto the highway at my request and basically said he would replace the control valves again if I wanted. I told him I need for him to realize the suspension was not right and then tell me what must be done rather than have him appease me by simply doing that. I told them I’d drive the car for a few days and report back.
(The snow tires are the same size as the summer tires but I did notice that they were a little taller than the summer tires. The first season I drove the car with the snows (I put the snows on the same day the car was delivered to me in Malone as I had already bought them from the Tire Rack.) I noticed on one bump on one road in Malone that the front would make a strange noise – this sounded like rocks hitting some grill. In fact the RS6 front fenders have air vents which are grills that noise I hear was something hitting those grills, perhaps the tire, perhaps a small stone. I have never been able to see any surface in the wheel well which appears to be being hit by the tire and neither could any mechanic who looked for me. So I cannot say where the ‘bottoming out noise’ is coming from up front, but it’s there. Now on every bump. This second season the tires are worn and certainly not as tall as when new. This distinction is key as Langan Audi is saying the noise is because the tires are the wrong size. )
By the time I got back to Johnson City (a two hour drive from Latham) I could clearly hear the noise from the rear end which was now louder. The car was bottoming out on frost heaves on the highway. By Tuesday evening the front was more unstable and the car was now rocking side to side. By Wednesday morning it was clear that the suspension was not right.
I took the car to the local dealer, Empire Audi, which is also a Porsche and Mercedes dealership and had the Porsche Mechanic look at the car.
I looked under the hood and actually said he could smell mineral oil! The DRC fluid he thought! He drove it and at the first bump leaving the garage he said ‘this isn’t right.’ After a few blocks he noted the car pulling to the right, and kept saying this is just not right. Over a few bumps, the car bottomed out, mostly at the front driver’s side. He drove the car back and forth quickly and noted the car was very unstable, and when taking a highway on ramp at 35 he noticed the car loosing traction. He was convinced the car was definitely not right.
Back at the shop he put the car on the lift and looked and immediately saw evidence of a leak from the front driver’s side shock, and when he hung on the car and moved it up and down we could all hear the squeaking from that shock!
Now that mechanic did not want to ‘step on anyone’s toes’ so he declined my request that he phone the mechanic in Latham to tell him what he thought.
I phone the service manager in Latham, Patrick, and asked to have the car looked at again and that they replace the front shocks and perhaps the central control valves. In fact I asked that they order the new front shocks now along with another set of rear shocks and control valves, before I even headed to Latham.
I suspect that under normal driving pressures the front shocks had now begun to leak, driver’s side more than passenger’s side, thus the rocking side to side of an unbalanced DRC system. As the week wore on the system lost more fluid and the rear began to act up as well and the fluttering sound became louder as the fluid level got lower. I understand that there is now way that Langan’s Mechanic could have predicted this slow change as the system lost more fluid, but again at this point they are assuming the car is the same as it was on this past Monday.
Today they called back and said not to bring the car in but rather wait until the regional rep called them back. After speaking to the regional rep, they said they wanted me to bring the car in on Monday with the SUMMER tires on it! I explained that I cannot come Monday as I have surgery all day and now that I have started my new practice in Latham I do not have time to run back and forth to Latham. I was going to bring the car to them on Friday and not bother dragging the summer tires with me since they would not all fit in the car anyway! I would hope that someone at the dealership in Latham could drive a car like the RS6 and realize it is not right!
Tonight on the way home from the hospital I noticed now the rear shocks are again clunking and the front driver’s side shock is clunking. I fear the new rear shocks are now ruined.
At this point I am very dissatisfied and don’t want to waste any more of my time. I do not have another car to use as my wife is 5 hours away in Malone and I certainly am not going to buy or lease another car with this very expensive lease hanging over my head at a time when I am in the middle of starting a new job and relocating. I am unfortunately dependant upon the loaner car program that my dealer offers to have a car to drive! Otherwise I would have already called roadside assistance and had the car taken in. I certainly will not take any passengers in the car with me at this point as the car is not really safe.
I know the lemon law does not apply in this setting but I am very concerned that this car will never be right unless the entire system is replaced with new parts all at the same time. With the system now low on fluid the new rear shocks and new control valves cannot be trusted and in fact the service manual says to replace the control valves any time the system leaks as they are factory set at the proper internal pressure.
I have been in contact with other RS6 driver who have also had their DRC systems fail and in those instances the dealers have changed the entire system at the onset. Also one person reported that he too thought the car was riding softer with the new parts and said something about the system being changed to make it softer!?! This does not make any sense, but if it is true please confirm this rumor. I’d prefer the car back to it’s original ride quality.
This has gone past being a nuisance, the car is down right dangerous. If you cannot give Latham Audi the ‘ok’ to order four new shocks and new control valves and replace the entire system, then I want you to take this car back and end my lease.
I can be reached on my cell phone XXX or office XXX. Please call me once you have read this fax.
Sincerely,
Michael Aronis, MD, FACS