Tailpipe tests the new RS4

[tailpipe]

Let me get straight to the point: the new Audi RS4 is probably the fastest point-to-point car available today. Period.

Currently in Switzerland enjoying a bit of pre-Geneva auto show skiing. The snowy mountain roads around Gstaad with the their tight bends, sweeping up and down hill curves, undulating surfaces covered with generous patches of ice and snow are probably the last place on earth you’d ever wish to test a BMW M3, but an RS4? It was in its element.

As you get in, the cockpit quality doesn't fail to surprise you. No one else builds car interiors to a higher standard. Everything felt as if the US’s entire budget for the war in Iraq had been spent on perfecting it. In particular, the steering wheel is excellent. The ergonomics clearly make this a car suitable for long trips at high speed. The damping is superb. Sound insulation is first class; but while it inhibits extraneous exterior road noises from destroying the interior ambiance, the sound of the engine is a glorious symphony that erupts like the 1812 overture every time you depress the accelerator.

Insert key, depress clutch and push starter button. Select first. Indicate left. Release clutch and handbrake gingerly as you leave Audi garage. Several pairs of eyes look at you as if to say: enjoy it, but bring it back in one piece. You smile and press the accelerator. Whooooah!

The shove in the back doesn’t let up. The steering is the best you’ll find on any current production Audi. The suspension although firm, doesn’t jar if you hit a bump. The car makes you feel connected to the road. It simply and effortlessly goes wherever you point it. Nothing unsettles it. The rear bias of the 4WD drive system gives it a superb cornering balance. In realty, you’ll have to really push this car to explore the outer limits of its handling capabilities.

You can genuinely accelerate hard in any gear. The responsiveness of the engine makes it a joy to drive. Before I knew it, I was doing 110mph on a mountain road. Simply breathtaking. Whatever you do, the chassis communicates with you so that you can respond to the road environment around you. Despite “caning” the car in sub-zero temperatures, the traction control light only came on once, although it is probably better that I don’t tell you what I was doing to make it do so.

The grin factor must be 11 out of 10 alone. But the sheer precision of this car across every dimension makes it absolutely stunning. In comparison, the RS6 was merely an A6 with a big engine strapped to it. This car has real engineering integrity that runs through it like a golden thread that holds everything together - beautifully. If it is arguably the fastest point-to-point car available, it is without doubt the finest production RS car we’ve seen and the best Audi currently available.

Forget the fact that the A4 is about to be replaced. The RS4 is so different from a base B8 model that it defies direct comparison. We've complained about the price, but given the depth and breadth of the RS4's capabilities, it will humiliate cars that cost twice as much, Aston Martins and Porches included. This is a milestone car that is destined to become a future classic. I love it.

[Fab]

Happy to hear you back on track after some hesitation.

Grear report ! this car is simply great . As stated in my test drive early Feb the steering wheel is simply fantastic. I hope I will be able to ôrder my avant next week during the auto show :deal:

[Fab]

seems Switzerland is ready to take avant order as of today

:rs4addict :incar: :king: :heart: :rs4kiss: :love:

[Benman]

Originally posted by tailpipe


As you get in, the cockpit quality doesn't fail to surprise you. No one else builds car interiors to a higher standard. Everything felt as if the US’s entire budget for the war in Iraq had been spent on perfecting it.

the sound of the engine is a glorious symphony that erupts like the 1812 overture every time you depress the accelerator.


If it is arguably the fastest point-to-point car available, it is without doubt the finest production RS car we’ve seen and the best Audi currently available.

This is a milestone car that is destined to become a future classic. I love it.
:applause: :applause:

Tailpipe is finally back on track! Welcome back Tailpipe!

So what color Avant will you be getting? :D

:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[gazzab]

Tailpipe you make me salivate!!! Just ordered my RS4 Sedan yesterday, about a 4-5 month wait.

Gazzab

[Benman]

Originally posted by gazzab
Tailpipe you make me salivate!!!
Hopefully his comments and not he himself are what cause your salivating, but then, that's a personal matter LOL ;) :D

Ben:addict:

[gazzab]

Ben, at this stage can't comment personally on tailpipe. but then again lips around a tailpipe doesn't sound pleasant!

Gazzab

[Benman]

Originally posted by gazzab
Ben, at this stage can't comment personally on tailpipe. but then again lips around a tailpipe doesn't sound pleasant!

Gazzab
:applause: :applause: ROFL!:D

Ben:addict:

[jasaretta]

I dont know Tailpipe but some if the images conjuered up aren't tht pretty!

Great review - thanks....makes the wait even harder!

[AndyBG]

NO COMENT!

[RS4Ever]

great write-up!

did you have euro seats?
what about the "S" button?
do the rpms really rise/drop quickly?
how did the horn sound - jk :)

any idea if there will be an RS4+ or no need?

[Fab]

Tailpipe which seats and suspension set up did you drive ?

[tailpipe]

Sorry to delay replying to you all. Thanks for the comments and replies (except for the ones about lips and tailpipes!!!).

The RS4 I tried was Daytona grey. It had the standard suspension set-up with Recaro sports seats not the buckets. I think the standard set-up is fine. It really is quite firm, but without being harsh. This means it stays glued to the tarmac - unbelievably so.

I didn't try the S button or the horn - it was extremely icy and therefore I couldn't really push the car. Despite these limitations, it was still like a fairground ride and the speed at which I was able to cover 20 kilometres of mid-winter Swiss mountain road was identical to that of my M3 across the same route last summer. I should add that I also took the RS4 to a car park covered in sheet ice and just threw it around to see what the limits of adhesion were. Just amazing. Best of all, it breaks away very progessively. The Rs4's composure in such atrocious road conditions was beyond the realms of ordinary genius.

:incar:

What I would also add to my earlier comments about the RS4 is that the engine is seriously and unbelievably flexible and powerful - it pulls like a cart horse in any gear. Therefore, your selection of gear tends to depend on your mood or the level of acceleration you wish to feel in the small of your back.

:MTM: :MTM: :MTM:

On launch, I was very critical about the lack of an automatic gearbox option on this car, but having now driven it, I realise that it really doesn't need one. An automatic box would spoil the fun. But if you're feeling lazy, simply stick it in fourth or fifth and it'll cruise along all day in a docile manner yet surge like a riptide when you want it to. I've never expereinced an engine like this before.

:mech:

On the reflection, the overwhelming sensation you feel is one of supreme mechanical grip. You don't feel the chassis really working until you start giving the car some serious grief around some sharp bends.

Before finally committting to an RS4, I still want to see the S6 in the flesh which I will do next Tuesday at the Geneva Press Day. Strongly leaning towards a Sprint or Mugello Blue Avant with bucket seats. That said black is very, very nice. Not a fan of Daytona Grey or the silvers - too ordinary. The deep green is also ultra cool in the flesh.

Yes, you can order Avants in Switzerland for delivery in May.

I am humbled by this car. I don't think the next M3 will be as capable, because it won't have 4WD and it won't have same hand-built quality. This RS4 will be a collector's item in years to come.

:thumb: :bow: :bow: :bow: :rs4kiss:

[rheudabaga]

Thanks for the comments, Tailpipe.

I'm escpecially interested in your comments on the manual/auto tranny dilema. Sounds like the manual is really sweet in the RS4.

Too bad we won't get the ultra-slick Avant in the states...:cry:

...so now the choice is whether to suck it up and get the S4 Avant or sacrifice the Avant functionality and go for the beast, RS4. From the sound of your article and others, I should forget about the Avant and 'make do' with the RS4 sedan.

:rs4addict

[tailpipe]

Rheudabaga,

As good as the S4 is, the RS4 is in another league.

You won't be disappointed with the Sedan - it will also have a performance advantage over the Avant, which is a bit heavier.

If i were you, however, I would be temptede to import a Euro spec RS4 Avant if you can run to the extra cost.

[rheudabaga]

Yes, I've thought about trying the import route, but reports put that at a 15-20k proposition which isn't feasible at this time.

[Bomber]

Tailpipe,

How do you compare the B5 RS4(B&B tuned to 420HP like mine) to the B7 RS4?

[tailpipe]

Sorry Bomber but i haven't driven one.

If it is okay to summarise other reports, then the advantages of the new RS4 seem to be:

- More power
- Greater traction
- Better steering
- improved balance
- Greater cornering ability
- no turbo lag
- Better driver ergonomics

Put simply, the new RS4 hugs the road better, communicates what it is doing to the driver better, is more thrilling to drive, and ultimately benefits from Audi's expereince bulding fast cars. B5 RS4 is still a great car by any objective standard - and fast.

New RS4 takes a successful formula by the scruff of the neck and breathes new life and power into it.

[Fab]

Tailpipe,

Thanks for the above precisions. I agree with you that standard suspension are already more than enough and offer great efficiency.

I regret I will be at the auto show on Wednesday press day we could have met there.

I am happy to see trough your reading that you were as impressed as I was during my various test drive of the beast. This car is absolutely outstanding and gives the driver a great driving pleasure.

I am also happy to read you confirming the avant delivery in May-June. I can't wait anymore. This means I should be able to finalize my order next week at the auto show with my Audi dealer.

cheers

Fab

[Fab]

Originally posted by Bomber
Tailpipe,

How do you compare the B5 RS4(B&B tuned to 420HP like mine) to the B7 RS4?

Bomber, my brother in law has a 420hp ABT B5 and I had the opportunity to drive it few times. I already had the opportunity to test drive twice the RS4 b7, once on track and once on open roads. My comments :

The B5 is a great machine and the 420hp mod gives this car great acceleration power. Its play field are long straigths and highway mainly with a powerfull torque potential. I am not saying it can't turn but we all know its weaknesses : brakes, handling, gearing.

The B7 is made to make the driver smile every day. You get such a pleasure driving it even at low speed. The engine is fabulous and has absolutely no response lag. Any pressure gives immediate response with a tremendous noise. Handling and brakes are THE improvement compared to the b5 which makes the B7 a really acomplished sport car. Pushing each gears at 8000trmin is incredible.

As already stated the french magazine Sport Auto gives the B7 in 23.8sec for the 1000m (B5 stock 24.5s, carrera S 23.5s).

Considering the test cars have low mileage and don't deliver full power and knowing that this magazine (which gives conservative chronos compared to German magazines) releases the B7 in 5sec only to 100km/h this gives an idea of the potential with a clear engine and decent start. Remember AMS stating 0-100 in 4.4s and 0-200 in 15.6s. This is better than a b5 420hp.

No doubt the B5 is a great car but the B7 is simply the best Audi ever made and as Tailpipe stated this car will be a collector in the futur, no doubt about it.

[gazzab]

So Tailpipe is the RS4 to replace the M3, have you the E46 model?

Gazzab

[tailpipe]

Gazzab,

I sold my E46 M3 in November anticipating the arrival of an RS4 Avant at Christmas. It was originally due to be shown at Frankfurt show, but was delayed due to the need for ongoing quality/ reliability testing of the engine. So i was left car-less and disappointed. I am presently consoling myself with my Audi A2 for city driving and a Range Rover for countryside driving. I expect to be in either an RS4 Avant or S6 Avant by June.

[gazzab]

Hi Tailpipe, were you a poster on the BM3W UK website?

? Range Rover Sport

Gazzab

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by tailpipe
Forget the fact that the A4 is about to be replaced. The RS4 is so different from a base B8 model that it defies direct comparison. We've complained about the price, but given the depth and breadth of the RS4's capabilities, it will humiliate cars that cost twice as much, Aston Martins and Porches included. This is a milestone car that is destined to become a future classic. I love it.
Maybe you could remind me what cars that cost twice as much as the RS4 it can humiliate. Not to mention the cars that cost the around the same or less that can humiliate the RS4.

[tailpipe]

What cars costing twice as much can the RS4 humiliate? How much time do you have CarbonFibre?

Remember one important point i made in my review. My criteria for saying the RS4 is superior is that it is the faster point-to-point machine and will outpoint its rivals in all road conditions. Put any of these cars up against the RS4 on an icy winter road and none will have the same levels of composure or outright speed.

Let's start with the Porsche 911 optioned to the same level. With the engine mounted behind the rear axle and no AWD, the Porsche will always lose its rear end before an RS4. The RS4 is also faster in a straight line and has better breaks.

Then there's the Aston Martin V8 Vantage or the V12. Both cars lack the same feel or impart the same feeling of connectness. The ride, in particular, is less well resolved. Ultimately both cars are less capable in extreme conditions, while the Vantage simply cannot keep up with the RS4 in a straight line.

Then there's the Bentley Continental GT. Huge amounts of power and AWD but it understeers like a barge.

Then there's the Mercedes SL500. So good in many ways, but the chassis isn't the equal of the RS4.

Put many of these cars against an RS4 on a dry summer road and there's a good chance that one or two will wallop it. That's fine one or two days a year, when you can find an empty road push hard without endangering other road users, but for the real world...

Amen.

[CarbonFibre]

The new Porsche Turbo will be around twice as much as an RS4 or less; it has AWD and is just as suitable for adverse conditions as the Audi if that's the card you want to play.

Won't the Bentley be faster in a straight line than the Audi? It's fairly obvious the RS4 would handle better just as a Lotus Elise would handle better than the RS4.

Let's stick with your statement of the RS4 "humiliating" cars that cost twice as much as it does (is the market that different in prices there?). Of the examples you listed, only the Bentley is over twice the cost, and the RS4 doesn't exactly humilate it. Their straight line acceleration is probably close with the Bentley maybe even beating the RS4 (I don't really know). The Bentley also isn't designed to go around a track fast.

[Benman]

Originally posted by tailpipe
Rheudabaga,

As good as the S4 is, the RS4 is in another league.

You won't be disappointed with the Sedan
If i were you, however, I would be temptede to import a Euro spec RS4 Avant if you can run to the extra cost.

Yes, the sedan will be plenty for you RS 4 guys Stateside!:thumb:

Importing will not even be an option (unless your cash supply is nearly unlimited!:D ).

Remember, the B5 RS 4 that people imported was when the Euro/ Dollar was favorable to the US dollar! And people were still having to fork out big bucks!

Now, with Euro at $1.185 US dollars, an RS 4 avant should run about $95K US or more! (80K Euro) than take into consideration the $15-$20K US red tape "fees" and you have a $115K RS (and I figure, that's being conservative!). Compare this to "settling" for the $70K RS 4 sedan, and it's a no brainer, at least in my book.

Ben:addict:

[rheudabaga]

I feel like I need a car consultant. As I've posted elsewhere, trying to come up with the right cars for me and the missus is a bit complicated this time.

Maybe you guys can offer your $.02, but I think I know what you'll say...and BEAST is in the sentence!

Wife needs a big car for the kids...Q7, LR3 or Pilot. Not worried about that choice and I'll let her make it, although I'm campaigning heavily (or deftly:hahahehe: ) for the Q7.

For myself, I'm gunning for the RS4, but there are issues. One, I'm an avid cyclist and not having an integrated roof rack (ala Avant:vgrumpy: ) really bums me out. Having a roof rack jammed into the door seems ganky to me.

Further, I'm not gonna ever track the thing or drive it to the limit. I would be well-served by an S4 Avant, no?

Then this A3 3.2 S-line comes along and really intrigues me! I'm going crazy. If I went with the A3, I think I could hoodwink the wife into the Q7 for sure and then we'd have a decent driver's car for the long treks to the grandparents house etc.

So what's a conflicted Audi guy to do? Sacrifice functionality for the Ultimate performer, RS4? Get the practical, if notch-down performer, S4? Or get the budget (it's not really THAT much less when you look at the lease-rates, which aren't great), cool hot-hatch option that would allow me to _nudge_ the wife into the Q7, the A3 3.2 S-line?

I hear they're starting to accept RS4 orders, and right now that's the front-runner in my mind, but I'm still conflicted.:trash:

[Benman]

Originally posted by rheudabaga


Maybe you guys can offer your $.02, but I think I know what you'll say...and BEAST is in the sentence!

although I'm campaigning heavily (or deftly:hahahehe: ) for the Q7.

For myself, I'm gunning for the RS4, but there are issues. One, I'm an avid cyclist...

Further, I'm not gonna ever track the thing or drive it to the limit. I would be well-served by an S4 Avant, no?


Well, you're right about Beast being in the sentence!:thumb:

If you're an avid cyclist (very healthy), you'd be even better served by the Mrs. joing you. Two fit people are better than one.:thumb: Q7 has plenty of room for both bikes, and since Mrs. will be with you, she won't mind you using her ride (clever huh?:p ).

That would free up the need for any racks for your second car. My recommendation for the second car is... you guessed it... the :rs4kiss:

You will :heart: it to death, tracking it or not.:thumb: :cheers:

Ben:addict: :rs4addict

[rheudabaga]

Ah, Benman, so unpredictable.

:360:

[tailpipe]

rheudabaga,

If space is a priority, then the Q7 might indeed be a great option. But be warned: it is enormous. I But if it were me, I wouldn't consider an LR3 as an alternative, more like the Range Rover Sport (4.2 litre Supercharged version), which is a really impressive piece of kit, both on-road and off it.

[rheudabaga]

Yes, tailpipe, the Q7 is a big, er, beast. Wife requires 3rd row. Car-pooling with kids and such.

[Benman]

Originally posted by tailpipe
rheudabaga,

If space is a priority, then the Q7 might indeed be a great option. But be warned: it is enormous. I But if it were me, I wouldn't consider an LR3 as an alternative, more like the Range Rover Sport (4.2 litre Supercharged version), which is a really impressive piece of kit, both on-road and off it.

We live in US, therefor to us, Q7 is only average sized. We're used to Suburbans and Excursions on freeways, so again, Q7 presents zero challenge for us American blokes.:D

Range Rover Sport. Is that available in 7 seater?

rheudabaga,

Get the RS 4 even if it means you forgoing the Q7. Gotta have a RS in the stable!:0: :D

Ben:addict:

[7:53 RS6]

Often its not cars that is humiliating one or the other car in the point to point,day to day or on track. Its the driver in the car that make. Just kidding i know what was meant.

So i guess in a country where it hardly snows or rain the humiliating stopps then?

Im for sure is hoping to test RS4 soon as well, im sure its getting me started especally the avant as im in to that.

But what i heard its to hevy still in the front and undersstear is still an issue. As well i hear that the 60/40 as well as when it pulls even more in the back then 60/40 as it can in some situations, you can hardly feel it doing so. And when a wheel is pulling a car forward as well as beaking and changing direction you are for sure losing some what of a feeling. Still its in my world most direct and comunicatin if the wheel in front is just braking and changing directions.

But i would not be schocked if i find out the same when i try it. But even if i do its a car for my taste, it got other qualitis than pure driving dynamics. It got the look and the sound and the finish, as well as space in the avant. And most importent its n/a and high reving at last. Please let me try you soon:rs4kiss:
As was said before here by some, and i agee its well known and obvius that Audi gone the BMW way, but still they got the Audi in them. And they was forced to if still wanted to be a competitor.
Just my 2cents

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Fab
Bomber, my brother in law has a 420hp ABT B5 and I had the opportunity to drive it few times. I already had the opportunity to test drive twice the RS4 b7, once on track and once on open roads. My comments :

The B5 is a great machine and the 420hp mod gives this car great acceleration power. Its play field are long straigths and highway mainly with a powerfull torque potential. I am not saying it can't turn but we all know its weaknesses : brakes, handling, gearing.

The B7 is made to make the driver smile every day. You get such a pleasure driving it even at low speed. The engine is fabulous and has absolutely no response lag. Any pressure gives immediate response with a tremendous noise. Handling and brakes are THE improvement compared to the b5 which makes the B7 a really acomplished sport car. Pushing each gears at 8000trmin is incredible.

As already stated the french magazine Sport Auto gives the B7 in 23.8sec for the 1000m (B5 stock 24.5s, carrera S 23.5s).

Considering the test cars have low mileage and don't deliver full power and knowing that this magazine (which gives conservative chronos compared to German magazines) releases the B7 in 5sec only to 100km/h this gives an idea of the potential with a clear engine and decent start. Remember AMS stating 0-100 in 4.4s and 0-200 in 15.6s. This is better than a b5 420hp.

No doubt the B5 is a great car but the B7 is simply the best Audi ever made and as Tailpipe stated this car will be a collector in the futur, no doubt about it.

@Fab,

Ofcourse the B7 MUST be better than the B5 otherwise the car
would have no right to exist:hihi:

I'm not defending my car but the handling of the RS4 B7 is obviously better because it is the sedan version.

And for the brakes....you are so right,i've upgraded the one's on
my RS to Porsche Cayenne six pot's....:bow:

Don't get me wrong I like the new RS4 a lot (I have a test drive coming up in a few weeks ;) )

But i'm still wondering if it makes so much difference as "they" say.

But as you say; the long straights are the playfield of the B5, that's exactly what I use it for.

I'm not a track man..






:rs4kiss:

[Bauer]

Seems like you enjoyed the car Tailpipe.

I am impressed by the chassis, interior and exterior. The performance I would like to see some more numbers and possibly get a test drive under my belt before I make a final judgment.

I have heard of the development issues with the motor, this is of course Audi's truely first high reving N/A production engine. I would think they would need to do a little more work then if they had done what they had traditionally done... slapped some turbos on an over built motor.

I understand the draw to high reving N/A motors but I am a turbo charged guy. This doesn't however mean I will not be getting the new S8, because I will. My wife is all over me about it. Just wish it had hit the 500 hp mark, but it seems they have worked the gearing a little.

In the end I think the B7 RS4 will a fine automobile and will satisfy most of the people who purchase one. I just think audi could have really hit one out of the park here. They should have stuck to the V8tt motor in this car. To my understanding they had several mules in testing but pulled the plug on it.

I also would be interested to try the B7 RS4 on the track compared to my B5 S4. I think I know what the out come of that would be, but I dont think I will have the opportunity to really know.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Bomber
@Fab,

Ofcourse the B7 MUST be better than the B5 otherwise the car
would have no right to exist:hihi:

I'm not defending my car but the handling of the RS4 B7 is obviously better because it is the sedan version.

And for the brakes....you are so right,i've upgraded the one's on
my RS to Porsche Cayenne six pot's....:bow:

Don't get me wrong I like the new RS4 a lot (I have a test drive coming up in a few weeks ;) )

But i'm still wondering if it makes so much difference as "they" say.

But as you say; the long straights are the playfield of the B5, that's exactly what I use it for.

I'm not a track man..


:rs4kiss: As I said the B5 is a great car but the b7 is much better, much better in every field. I also drove the RS2 a lot in the past and it was great as well. But no comparison.

When I am saying much better I mean driving pleasure and efficiency which is I guess what 99% of us are looking for and will not need any mod on this purpose (except maybe a nice miltek) :king:

The better handling has nothing to do with the sedan version but with a great new combination of chassis, DRC and suspension set up, etc. The avant will be a great handling car as well be shure of this. Remember the RS6 which is a better handling car than the RS4 b5 despite auto gearbox and its weight.

I not a track man neither and I understand your point. But the B7 is not a track car it is simply the best (sport) car Audi ever made nothing else to add.

Try it and come back to me. Then we will be able to exchange our views on it ;)

[Bauer]

Remember the RS6 which is a better handling car than the RS4 b5 despite auto gearbox and its weight.


I don't think this is eintirely true... if you are going to quote Ring times, keep in mind the RS6 has more hp and tq then the B5 RS4 which would account for a lot of made up time on the track. Also, what does a gearbox have to do with handeling? They are two different systems.

I have tracked my RS6 and it has it's flaws, the suspension is too stiff at low speeds and too soft at high speeds. The DRC can also be cought off balance in trasisition corners, such as S's. Not to say I don't have fun in the car, because I do. It just has it's limitations, like all cars.

To be fair I have not driven an B5 RS4 on the track but pleanty of B5 S4's with various types of suspensions, from stock to highly modifed.

[Fab]

When I say handling I mean general car behaviour including : braking, cornering and general car attitude.

Of course this can be discussed and both car are very close anyway. I am not talking about track only but what level of active security the car gives to its driver when pushing hard.

My point is the RS6 is a more accomplished car than the RS4 which has various main weaknesses : suspension, gearbox and brakes. Having said that this is only true compared to top class cars from other brands.

Don't misunderstand me the B5 is a great car still today and the only reason I've been driving a S4 those past years is that I was too late to get a brand new RS4 b5 when I changed my previous car. I then missed again a great opportunity to get one low mileage 3 years ago. The RS4 b5 was my dream car and the B7 RS4 will make the dream come true :rs4addict

[Erik]

http://motoring.independent.co.uk/road_tests/article346652.ece

The rivals

Audi RS4: This Audi will upstage Aston



BMW M3 £41,875

Only six cylinders and 343bhp, but what a crisp, beguiling engine. Ride is too firm, but on the right roads this two-door coupé is a fabulous drive. Based on previous 3-series; production ends soon.

CADILLAC CTS-V, £45,000 approx

Left-hand-drive only, but this razor-edged, Corvette V8-powered ultimate CTS takes you where you never thought a Cadillac could go. Cabin feels cheap at this price, but terrific rear-wheel-drive fun.

MERCEDES-BENZ C55, £48,790

Another V8, less racy than the Audi's. Automatic transmission takes the edge off the sportiness, but this top C-class is an understated and rapid performer, albeit overshadowed by the
RS4.

"It's transparent, it draws you in, it talks to you; it powers out of a bend like a BMW M6 but without the fear of an incipient powerslide and sudden electronic intervention."


:rs4addict

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by Erik
http://motoring.independent.co.uk/road_tests/article346652.ece

"It's transparent, it draws you in, it talks to you; it powers out of a bend like a BMW M6 but without the fear of an incipient powerslide and sudden electronic intervention."


:rs4addict

Well if thats somthing the reporter fear, he is not into driving for reall :D

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Fab
As I said the B5 is a great car but the b7 is much better, much better in every field. I also drove the RS2 a lot in the past and it was great as well. But no comparison.

When I am saying much better I mean driving pleasure and efficiency which is I guess what 99% of us are looking for and will not need any mod on this purpose (except maybe a nice miltek) :king:

The better handling has nothing to do with the sedan version but with a great new combination of chassis, DRC and suspension set up, etc. The avant will be a great handling car as well be shure of this. Remember the RS6 which is a better handling car than the RS4 b5 despite auto gearbox and its weight.

I not a track man neither and I understand your point. But the B7 is not a track car it is simply the best (sport) car Audi ever made nothing else to add.

Try it and come back to me. Then we will be able to exchange our views on it ;)

Will do that!

Grtzzz Bomber

[Benman]

Originally posted by Bauer


I also would be interested to try the B7 RS4 on the track compared to my B5 S4. I think I know what the out come of that would be, but I dont think I will have the opportunity to really know.

Yes, but now your "S4" costs more than the new RS 4!!!:D BTW, when will you face up and just do the RS conversion all ready! We all know you want to!:D

BTW, awesome news about the S8! I'm sure Jennifer is really looking forward to it. I know my wife would be! :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by Bauer
I just think audi could have really hit one out of the park here. They should have stuck to the V8tt motor in this car. To my understanding they had several mules in testing but pulled the plug on it.
I don't even think they had testing mules for that. First of all, twin turbos would not and do not fit in the engine bay of the A4 chassis with the 4.2 V8. Also, the RS6 4.2TT only has 30 more hp than the n/a motor the RS4 has now (albeit with more torque), but even if the turbo motor did fit, it would add even more weight to the front end of the car.

Another reason I think Audi decided to go the n/a route with the new RS4 is because they no longer had the assistance of Cosworth Technology, since Audi/VW sold it to Mahle in 2004. Cosworth worked on the engine in the B5 RS4 and I believe also the engine in the RS6, so without them this probably influenced Audi's decision to go to natural aspiration (along with the V8 turbo not fitting, so a turbo'd 6 cylinder would look weird from a marketing perspective with the regular S4 having a V8).

[tailpipe]

CarbonFibre,

I wanted to respond to your earlier post about RS cars and Porsches. You can only effectively compare one car model to another when the criteria for evaluation have been established first. Most of the people who frequent this forum have a preference for Audi RS models because they are without question excellent year-round performance cars. Speaking for myself, I believe you can use more of an RS4 or RS6's performance, on more roads, more of time than with any other car. I call it a real world sports car. With my previous BMW M3, I could only really push the envelope on a dry road. The few grey hairs I now have are attributable to prodding the M3's accelerator too hard on certain (usually wet) occasions.

If you want a practical demonstration of real world/ winter performance, take an RS4 to a an empty frozen car park with sheet ice on it and drive it against competitors costing twice as much and you'll soon see which car loses traction first - and it won't be the Ingolstadter. A standard 911 will certainly break traction before the RS4, (as will an Aston Martin DB-9 which costs £103,000). In responding to my post, you said: if you want to play the Porsche card, what about the 911 Turbo, which is AWD? Well done, because you picked just about the only other car that can equal the Audi's pace under such conditions. But the point is, a 911 Turbo costs double the price.

It may also interest you to know that, according to Wolfgang Hatz, head of engine development at Audi, the reason they developed a natually aspirated V-8 was because: "I got sick of BMW saying we could only do turbo engines." i think the R8 and R10 conclusively prove Audi can do turbos or N/As without Cosworth. That said, there wasn't much room in the B6/ B7 A4 engine bayfor a V8 and a turbo).

[Bauer]

I don't even think they had testing mules for that. First of all, twin turbos would not and do not fit in the engine bay of the A4 chassis with the 4.2 V8. Also, the RS6 4.2TT only has 30 more hp than the n/a motor the RS4 has now (albeit with more torque), but even if the turbo motor did fit, it would add even more weight to the front end of the car.

The turbos will fit in the B7 S4 body, infact the RS6 motor will fit in the B7 S4. People seem to forget that the turbo's sit behind the motor and on the tops sides of the Gearbox. A 6-speed manual is smaler in dimensions the the Autobox and with modifications to the tunnel well there is space. Additionally, the exhaust manifolds would take up just about the same space along the side of the motor where the space is limited. As for the weight, true there would be added weight but not a whole lot for the power gains. Remember the the limiting factor on power for the RS6 was the gearbox, so since the RS4 has a manual, they could have easily turned up the power to in excess of 500 hp and 500tq, without issues. The RS6 motor is race tested up to 900hp reliable.

As for Cosworth, yes I know Mahle bought them, but they still are in the engine producing business. In fact Mahle has some pretty big plans going forward and Cosworth is a big part of that. Also, Cosworth did all the development work on the RS6 motor and provided them to Audi.


It may also interest you to know that, according to Wolfgang Hatz, head of engine development at Audi, the reason they developed a natually aspirated V-8 was because: "I got sick of BMW saying we could only do turbo engines." i think the R8 and R10 conclusively prove Audi can do turbos or N/As without Cosworth. That said, there wasn't much room in the B6/ B7 A4 engine bayfor a V8 and a turbo).

Well that is a good reason to do change your core competance... becasue your competitor says you can't. Each manufacture knows what they are good at.

Oh and if you think Audi built the R8 and R10 solely on their own, you are smoking crack. Belive me they had pleanty of help.

[CarbonFibre]

Everything I've ever heard has said that the RS6 motor would not fit, but I don't have any significant proof that says that it won't or any that says that it will.

I'd be curious to know why only supercharger kits come out (or are coming out) for the 4.2 V8 in the S4/RS4 and no turbo kits (that I know of). I'd think if turbos fitted then MTM would prefer those, but it could just be them exploring new frontiers.

[Bauer]

Everything I've ever heard has said that the RS6 motor would not fit, but I don't have any significant proof that says that it won't or any that says that it will.

It will with some modifications, the bumper rails need to be modified among some other things but it will fit.


I'd be curious to know why only supercharger kits come out (or are coming out) for the 4.2 V8 in the S4/RS4 and no turbo kits (that I know of). I'd think if turbos fitted then MTM would prefer those, but it could just be them exploring new frontiers.

To fit turbos you need to modify the transmission tunnel which is not easy and can't really be done and sold as a "kit". This would mean most of the cars would have to be done at MTM which greatly reduces the marketability of the product. The supercharger route is a more economical soloution to forced induction for the B6 and B7.