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Vorsprung
January 26th, 2006, 15:03
Hope i'm not double posting, but i'm really surprised not to see this already here....:confused:

Some pics of the new S3. They mention it being "undisguised", but those wheels and black spoilers i'm absolutely certain will be different. All in all i think its gonna be a looker! :s3addict:

Interior also looks great if you ask me.

HERE (http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoid/6060126.002)

eazy
January 26th, 2006, 15:14
Mmh, 272 hp sounds not very much for me :(

alex_s3
January 26th, 2006, 16:54
I Didnt like all the plastic on the front bumper..

JavierNuvolari
January 26th, 2006, 17:00
Originally posted by alex_s3
I Didnt like all the plastic on the front bumper..


Yeah, neither did I. It looks kinda....dare I say...cheap?? but..since this is supposted to be a test mule I doubt that it will be the final product:looking: . And about the 272hp, that's way less than what you get from the new M coupe.

Cheers,


Javier

MJN
January 26th, 2006, 18:41
I think it looks quite good, although it looks exactly like we thought it would look like.. 272bhp is, i think enough, it beats all current hot hatches, only the BMW 130i has more bhp, but is less sporty and lacks Quattro.

Iceman
January 26th, 2006, 20:22
Originally posted by eazy
Mmh, 272 hp sounds not very much for me :(
It will even be less than that, 260 hp/191 kW.

wfg, Hans.

Benman
January 26th, 2006, 20:36
Originally posted by Iceman
It will even be less than that, 260 hp/191 kW.

wfg, Hans.
Really, but doesn't the normal 3.2 A3 make 240/250? 10 or 20hp hardly seems worth it?:confused:

Ben:addict:

Iceman
January 26th, 2006, 21:04
Originally posted by Benman
Really, but doesn't the normal 3.2 A3 make 240/250? 10 or 20hp hardly seems worth it?:confused:

Ben:addict:
The A3 3.2 VR6 have 250 hp and the new S3 have a 2.0 260 hp FSI K04 turbo engine.
The new S3 will weight less than the A3 3.2 VR6.

wfg, Hans.

audipassion
January 26th, 2006, 21:21
finally the new :s3addict: , thanks Audi!! :applause:

Benman
January 26th, 2006, 21:34
Originally posted by Iceman
The A3 3.2 VR6 have 250 hp and the new S3 have a 2.0 260 hp FSI K04 turbo engine.
The new S3 will weight less than the A3 3.2 VR6.

wfg, Hans.
Less weight? By the time they add the turbo and plumbing to the 2.0 and then bigger wheels, tires, brakes, more options, etc... will it really weight less? If so, then probably not by more than 50lbs or 23Kgs. :confused:

Ben:addict:

Iceman
January 26th, 2006, 22:56
Originally posted by Benman
Less weight? By the time they add the turbo and plumbing to the 2.0 and then bigger wheels, tires, brakes, more options, etc... will it really weight less? If so, then probably not by more than 50lbs or 23Kgs. :confused:

Ben:addict:
The car will have more aluminium parts like: Bonnet, mudgards/fenders and doors if the info is correct.
The Audi A3 3.2 Quattro weights 1495 kg and the A3 2.0T FSI Quattro 1430 kg.
The new S3 will not weigh more than the 2.0T Quattro.

wfg, Hans.

alex_s3
January 26th, 2006, 23:09
260hp is not bad to be a stock S3.. :) Its a little fast, sport car.. And its allway rom for modifications..

Benman
January 26th, 2006, 23:26
Originally posted by Iceman
The car will have more aluminium parts like: Bonnet, mudgards/fenders and doors if the info is correct.

Ahh... ala RS models. Nice!:thumb:

Ben:addict:

clam
January 27th, 2006, 12:53
Originally posted by JavierNuvolari
Yeah, neither did I. It looks kinda....dare I say...cheap?? but..since this is supposted to be a test mule I doubt that it will be the final product:looking:

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos/6060126.002/6060126.002.Mini5L.jpg

http://www.968.net/modifications/images/snowplow_01.jpg


And again we have people complaining about horsepower. Does every single car on the planet have to have +400hp and (as a consequence) cost +€80k?

What? Only 272hp in a hatchback. The M Coupé has 334hp. What?!? Only 340hp? The RS4 has 414hp. What? Only 414hp? The M5 has 500hp. What, only 500hp. The Murciélago has 590hp. Enzo has 660hp, Veyron has an estimated 1200hp, I think a train engine is about 16.000hp, an airplane even more, a nucliar powered aircraft carrier still more, and that orange rocket that sends the shuttle into space probably has a fair amount of power too.

Audi actually has to sell this car in the real world. The aim of the S3 is not to impress teenagers on the internet. That's what showcars like those +€100k HPA VR6 Turbo Volkswagens are for. The S3 is not a showcar, but an actual product that has to sell and make a profit. And the market for €100k hatchbacks is not that big. Crazy as it may seem, some people don't want to spend thousands of euros on power they do not want, need, or will ever use.

M Coupé!?! Do you fail to see the difference between these cars?

Charles DLF
January 27th, 2006, 13:14
Originally posted by clam
Audi actually has to sell this car in the real world. The aim of the S3 is not to impress teenagers on the internet. That's what showcars like those +€100k HPA VR6 Turbo Volkswagens are for. The S3 is not a showcar, but an actual product that has to sell and make a profit. And the market for €100k hatchbacks is not that big. Crazy as it may seem, some people don't want to spend thousands of euros on power they do not want, need, or will ever use.


You said it all Clam, and that was my point in one of my first posts. I have a 3.2 VR6 A3, and it has as much power as i need, and i would buy this S3, although it "only" has 10 extra horsepower. The car will be sportier, have better looks (although i don't like that yellow), and i do not need the 500HP of an M5 in my S3, 260 is plenty considering i can't go any faster than 130 km/h on a highway, speed i will reach fast enough in a S3 when getting on the highway. AUDI DOES NOT MAKE PIMPED CARS FOR TEENAGERS, get a subaru if it's what you want!

Best to all
Charles

PS: what's up with the 944??:confused: :bye2:

eazy
January 27th, 2006, 14:57
Originally posted by clam

And again we have people complaining about horsepower. Does every single car on the planet have to have +400hp and (as a consequence) cost +€80k?

What? Only 272hp in a hatchback. The M Coupé has 334hp. What?!? Only 340hp? The RS4 has 414hp. What? Only 414hp? The M5 has 500hp. What, only 500hp. The Murciélago has 590hp. Enzo has 660hp, Veyron has an estimated 1200hp, I think a train engine is about 16.000hp, an airplane even more, a nucliar powered aircraft carrier still more, and that orange rocket that sends the shuttle into space probably has a fair amount of power too.


Ok, if it seems, we have a different point of view.
It's not an question of 'building a dream-car for an teenager' it's an question of the competition with audis hardest opponent, bmw.
Maybe you've heard bmw is planning an M135i with an M3-engine, ok thats rumors, but bmw will not surrender that fight with audi.

I thought the A3 3.2 should compete with the 130i and an S3 will be on a higher level (some said it will have 300bhp+).

Don't get me wrong, i don't think that 272hp are too less for an hatchback. But in comparison with bmw, audi must be better to beat them.

Hope you understand what i want to say.

greetings

eazy

Iceman
January 27th, 2006, 15:35
The new S3 will have 191 kW/ 260 HP not 272 hp.
But a simple remap will give it 300+ hp.

wfg, Hans.

Benman
January 27th, 2006, 16:12
Originally posted by clam


And again we have people complaining about horsepower. Does every single car on the planet have to have +400hp and (as a consequence) cost +€80k?

What? Only 272hp in a hatchback.
clam,

You make valid points, but at the same time, I think you misjudged the points already made. No, not every car on the planet needs 400hp (although, it'd be nice:p ), but it was said the new S3 will "only" have 260, not 272 or whatever. If that is the case, my point, is why go to all the trouble to make a whole "new" model and then "only" give it an extra 10hp?

Now, Iceman pointed out that it will be lighter, but that remains to be seen. They say it will be lighter, but to spend the money on aluminium fenders, hood and even doors (the last one sounds unlikely) will certainly drive up the cost of the vehicle. But in the end, even if it does get all this, the total vehicle will only weight about 60/65kg less than the 3.2L and with only 10 additional hp. That was my point. I think that also may have been the point of others.

Ben:addict:

clam
January 27th, 2006, 18:03
Originally posted by eazy
Ok, if it seems, we have a different point of view.
It's not an question of 'building a dream-car for an teenager' it's an question of the competition with audis hardest opponent, bmw.
Maybe you've heard bmw is planning an M135i with an M3-engine, ok thats rumors, but bmw will not surrender that fight with audi.

I thought the A3 3.2 should compete with the 130i and an S3 will be on a higher level (some said it will have 300bhp+).

Don't get me wrong, i don't think that 272hp are too less for an hatchback. But in comparison with bmw, audi must be better to beat them.

Hope you understand what i want to say.

greetings

eazy

"audi must be better"

Indeed. But that doesn't mean more horsepower.
The 130i has more horsepower than the R32, but it was slower around the Top Gear track than the heavier R32. And JC slammed the BMW for being completely unpractical and too expensive. It may have more max horsepower, but it's not the best car. And putting the M3 engine in it will only make it more expensive, and it still won't be a good product.

It's silly to judge a car on a max hp. It's even silly to do that with an engine only, b/c the powerband is far more important that the max hp figure. A 500hp car could be slower than a 100hp car if it doesn't have a good powerband.

Benman, you are right. The engines are very similar in performance. It's something you see throughout the VAG lineup. Take the Golf. You've got the 2.0TFSI GTI, then the 1.4 Twin Charged GT, and then the R32. The difference between the hardware is so small, you wonder why VAG bothered to develop 3 different engines. But the overall package makes them different cars.

I think the 3.2 was a transitional model to give quattro Gmbh the time to develop the S3. Remember, they were also working on the RS4, S6, S8. The 3.2 is just a regular A3 with a big engine. That's why they didn't call it an S. The engine fit, so why not.

I believe the S3 will be something completely different. It'll have several years of development behind it. They will have worked on creating a balanced package. I read a comparison test between the R32 and the A3 3.2, and they found that the R32 was far better. Even though it's the same engine on the same platform. The difference is that the R32 had gone through intensive development. It was seen on the nurburgring for months. The hardware is the same, but little tweeks here and there made a big difference in the overall result. And even though it's heavier, and only 10hp stronger, the new R32 was 3seconds faster around the Top Gear track than the previous R32.

The S3 is getting the same treatment as the R32. These cold weather test show that. It's not gonna be an chipped A3 2.0T with a bodykit. It'll be an S3. A model in its own right. Kinda like a RUF. It may look like a Porsche, and share most of the hardware, but it's not a Porsche.

And fingers crossed for that rumoured new haldex with 40:60 powerbias.

(btw, the reason why it looks funny is the skinny snow tyres)

Benman
January 27th, 2006, 18:37
Originally posted by clam


I think the 3.2 was a transitional model to give quattro Gmbh the time to develop the S3. Remember, they were also working on the RS4, S6, S8.


clam,

Is quattro GmbH working on the S3? Also, I didn't think they had anything to do with the S6 or S8. I thought those cars are all Audi GmbH cars? The only time quattro gets involved with "regular" cars is the "individual" packages that customers order for them. In the past, quattro was only making the RS models. Has that now changed?

Ben:addict:

Iceman
January 27th, 2006, 18:46
Originally posted by Benman
clam,

Is quattro GmbH working on the S3? Also, I didn't think they had anything to do with the S6 or S8. I thought those cars are all Audi GmbH cars? The only time quattro gets involved with "regular" cars is the "individual" packages that customers order for them. In the past, quattro was only making the RS models. Has that now changed?

Ben:addict:
Only RS models like the new RS4 are made by Quattro GmbH.
S models like S3, S4, S6 and S8 are normal production cars.

wfg, Hans.

Benman
January 27th, 2006, 19:17
Originally posted by Iceman
Only RS models like the new RS4 are made by Quattro GmbH.
S models like S3, S4, S6 and S8 are normal production cars.

wfg, Hans.
That's what I thought. Just trying to be polite.;)

Ben:addict:

eazy
January 27th, 2006, 20:07
@clam
You have good arguments clam. Thanks for it.
I see it now from a different angle.
:blush:

greetings

eazy

clam
January 28th, 2006, 15:07
Originally posted by eazy
@clam
You have good arguments clam. Thanks for it.
I see it now from a different angle.
:blush:

greetings

eazy

:race: ;)


Quattro gmbh is involved in all the development for Audi's special cars/features. They are also involved in the S-line packages, the DTM limited editions, custom design, wheel design, the development/production of the R8, and certain gadgets like the adaptive suspension.
The RS-cars (and soon R8) are the only ones they actually build, correct, but they are involved in the development of the S-cars. It was Quattro gmbh that modified the 4.2l V8, for instance, so it would fit the S4 (both in size and character). It's also responsable for the upgraded 220hp version of the 2.0TFSI in the A4. And they most likely had a hand in the development of the 40:60 Torsen diff, and the 5.2l V10. They've been doing it since 1985, long before the RS-cars came along. Why would Audi develop the S3 on their own while they have a department that is specialized in performance and exclusive features?

Benman
January 30th, 2006, 16:39
Originally posted by clam
Why would Audi develop the S3 on their own while they have a department that is specialized in performance and exclusive features?
Because Audi is like twenty times the size of quattro GmbH and has far more personel. As it is, quattro is back logged with work "just" developing and producing the gallardo (just finished them), RS 4 sedan/avant, R8, upcoming RS 6, S Line equipment, interior exclusive packages, etc... Do they really have time for S cars?

Ben:addict:

RacerBice
January 30th, 2006, 20:27
Personally, I'm not really sure Audi have been working that hard with the S3. Especially since this is the first time we've ever seen any spy photos of it (isn't it?).

In terms of power (and for those of you who are making references to an M 1-series beemer and to Audi staying competitive in the hot hatch segment), I think Audi want to be careful not to get too near to the territory in which everyone expects to find a future RS3.

In fact, perhaps the RS3 is where Audi will spend more of its resources in development and testing....? In the case of which it would become readily apparent that S3 will only be launched to keep the market on its toes, and to sort of fill the gap in the model range... No, as I said, I'm not overly optimistic that the S3 will be that special. I hope I'm wrong, though, 'cause I would be seriously looking at it through the eyes of a potential buyer.

RB

Ps. If there are any plans for an RS3 at all, that is...

CarbonFibre
January 31st, 2006, 02:33
Originally posted by RacerBice
Ps. If there are any plans for an RS3 at all, that is...
Last I heard they thought about it and about what engines it might have (like a biturbo V6) and scrapped the idea saying the cost would be too high and not worth it.