New S6

[noushy]

In a surprise move, Audi showed the new S6 at the NAIAS. I personally sat in it today, very nice, all carbon fiber trim. Curious as to why there was so little hoopla about this model. If anyone is interested in pics, email me and I will take some tommorow night at the charity event. It is nagaro blue metallic in color, the wheels are kind of boring, very bmw 5 series like. It is sitting next to the audi S8, both have v10 badges on the front fender area. The spy pixs around the ring are correct both in the color and basic styling. If they removed the badging, it would be very difficult to spot with the exception of the wheels and exhaust.

Edit: I see someone else has posted the pixs so there you go... How about some input then on this question. Since the new S6 will have performance similar to the old RS6, and be normally aspirated, is there any reason to hold out for the new RS6? And is it really worth it? My lease is up in 10 months, and I have a few cars waiting on the list. They are in no specific order, BMW M5 or M6, Merc CLS55, Audi S8 (or S6), Porsche 911 C4S, AM Vantage V8. More or less cars around 70-110k. Let me know.

Noushy

[JavierNuvolari]

Hi, mmm...I think it will be interesting to see how will the new RS6 will be, after all last time that someone said that the normally aspirated RS4 was a dumb idea...well...look what came up with.

Anyway, that's a really nice "waiting list" you have there, personelly if not an RS6(new) I would go for the CLS55, such a damn good looking car.


Saludos,



Javier

[Benman]

Originally posted by JavierNuvolari

Anyway, that's a really nice "waiting list" you have there,


:thumb:

Noushy, how can you go wrong with any of those cars! Remember back though to the last S6. Now think of the performance difference between that and the RS 6. I would think a similar performance gap will exist between the next gen cars. If you really don't want to wait, then pick up the S8, a simply beautiful 4 door sedan the whole family can enjoy.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[rks838]

If you get an M5, CLS55, S6 or RS6, you're basically buying the same car you have now with a different badge. If you want another fast sedan that, no surprise, cannot handle like a sports car, go for one of these. For slightly better handling, go to the M6, but this too is basically the same car. The S8 has (again, in general) RS6-like speed and slightly worse handling than those previously mentioned.

A 911 C4S would be a different car altogether. It has RS6 speed, but it doesn't get this out of gobs of torque like the bigger sedans do. It does have RS6 grip. Same with the Vantage V8, although this car doesn't have AWD. The new RS4 looks like a very appealing compromise between the fast but heavy sedans and the fast, super-sporty coupes. Audi quattro, Audi interior, etc. Plus it goes around the 'Ring as quick or quicker (as quick as 7:58) as the C4S (8:03).

[clam]

I don't think the S8 will have "slightly worse handling". It's got the new Torsen diff (40:60 bias) like the acclaimed RS4, and contrary to popular believe, weight is often a plus in the handling department (it's like natural downforce, though you need a bigger engine and fatter tyres to move it).

If I was presented with the choice I would pick:
S8 for Sedan
S6 for Stationwagon
911 for Sportscar

[noushy]

Well you guys all have a point. My problem is that I can only have one car right now for my "fun and business" needs. I already have an suv, so that really functions for the family car. The RS6 is a great mix of performance and practicality. Right now it is sitting in the garage, but I could take it out almost any day. It has snow tires on it (V-rated) and is even fun in light snow. I kind of miss having a fun summer car (something like the c4s or sl55), since I am usually reserved and conservative. An S8 is something my parents would respect, but would not fill my fun needs so much. I have always wanted a true sports car, but cannot see myself spending much over 100k for anything on wheels. I love the F430, or even the Gallardo for us RS6 fans, but how much would I use it, and waste all those payments (and insurance costs). I sat in a new C4S coupe, black metalic with a kind of orange brown leather interior. Very nice, sporty, much better looking than the regular CS (narrow body). I could consider waiting for the turbo, but I heard 130k. Is it really that much more sporty. The problem with the Audi S6 is the really bland styling. At least the M5 makes some distinction over a 5 series. The S8 has the small wheelbase, and it does stand out (the quad pipes for a start). So Ben, Clam, and the rest of the guys, take a vote. I hear the S8 and S6 should be in the dealerships in a few months, at least by april for a test drive.

Noushy

[ott]

I like A/S6 interior much more than A/S8. When you sit in those cars, 8 styling feels dated compared to 6. Also, 6 handles better, probably beacuse it's smaller car, although weight is almoust the same.

From this list, I would take Aston, just purely on emotional basis.

[Erik]

A V10 is always nice. Regardless of make.
If you get a S6 I think you will miss some bits, and find others you like vs. your current RS6, but I don't think you will be disappointed.

The CLS55 is a very good looking car as well.

[Benman]

Originally posted by noushy
So Ben, Clam, and the rest of the guys, take a vote. I hear the S8 and S6 should be in the dealerships in a few months, at least by april for a test drive.

Noushy
Ok, Noushy has spoken.:D What this thread needs is a poll that will help/make worse his decision.:p

Ben:addict:

[QuattroFun]

IMO (FWIW) in the two different categories:

1. AM Vantage - 911 C4S - M6

2. CLS55 - S8 - RS4 - M5 - S6

Mixing them if SUV is enough as the sensible car

1&2. AM Vantage - 911 C4S - M6 - CLS55 - S8 - RS4 - M5 - S6

Of course, were F430 & Gallardo allowed, F430 would top the list closely followed by the Lambo...

[noushy]

Thanks for the intro Ben, yes please give me your input (with constructive comments if needed). I sat in a C4S today, and will probably drive one when the weather gets a little nicer. The gallardo and F430 will have to wait till the next round (not practical enough and just to darn expensive right now). Please narrow this down, AMV8, C4S, Ctt (will be available this summer around June or July), M6, S6 or S8. On an additional note, I have a stipend of $1300 a month for a lease, anything more I pay out of pocket. So please make your choices taking cost into consideration. (Yes, I can afford any of these cars, that is not the point).

Noushy

[AndyBG]

Hi, Noushy

I think that here you have just one obviuse choice,

!!! 911 Carrera 4S !!!

The reason i mean this is 43 years of constant progres and making this car better. As many of you now 911 is ICON of sports cars, and that reputation is proven on race tracks and road tests every year around a world.
I think that you just can't make mistake with Porsche,
(you have one, correct me if i am wrong)
specialy with 911. The car just looks wright, feels wright and ride is very balanced, even with the engine in the wrong place!

:)))

Actualy, several months ago "TOP GEAR" was making the test with cars that you have in your "wish list",

911 Carrera S vs BMW M6 vs Aston Vartin V8 Vantage

Porsche was winner, of course, it even have 3 or 4 second better time on track IN RAIN, and all that with 25 bhp less than AM V8 and 152 bhp less than BMW M6.

Why? Becouse Porsche enginires make that every one bhp goes on road just as it should!

911 was aworded,
"TOP GEAR SPORTS CAR OF THE YEAR"

If any one have link to this video, please post it for Noushy to see it if he isnt.

My point is,

the 911 is such a great car, in any of its variants, and if you are looking to buy a sport car there is no better one than 911, and if you have opurtunity to own one i see now reason why you should not?
Acording to many people, 911 expiriance is one of the best in motoring.

After all, this is just my opinion and what ever choice you make i hope it would be best for you and that you going to enjoy, but i like people to be happy with their cars and 911 owners are just that, happy with their cars.

Cheers, ANDY!

[rks838]

My picks are the C4S and S8. These are two different types of cars, so only you can decide which type you want. The C4S, as mentioned, is just a brilliant car. Road and Track says it goes 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, and 0-100 in 9.4 seconds, by the way. The S8 will have top-level luxury, and a very healthy dose of sport. I'd expect 0-60 in about 4.8. Anything under 5.0 is amazing. The AM Vantage, M6, and 911 turbo are all over $100,000. It's a little arbitrary, but I consider that the "wretched excess" line. If cost is an issue, these are out.

So, C4S in very sporty class (w/ Vantage the runner-up, mainly for its soul) and S8 for more luxurious class (w/ M6 runner-up for its performance).

[Benman]

I'd also say the C4S would be best (waiting for poll... :D) with the S8 a very, very close second. I say the S8 because although it is a completely different Beast, it is still something that will be a sight on the road, more so than the M5 V10. It will be rarer, interior blows the M5's away, looks nicer on the outside, better ride quality (if you're commuting), same price ($90K+), close to the same performance.

If you need the space (giving up the RS 6 would do it for me), the S8 will fit the bill. If you don't, C4S is the way. As AndyBG stated, "I think that you just can't make mistake with Porsche".

On a side note, The AM Vantage is gorgeous, and the best looking of all the cars you've mentioned. But also as Andy has pointed out, Porsche has been improving the 911 for 40+ years and has proven the cars reputation. AM, not as much. Also, with the AM, most magazines (I know, as EVO says, they're just "punters") are reporting quality issues on tests. Not something a potential buyer wants to hear. No such issues with S8 and C4S.

Need space= S8:heart:
Don't= C4S:heart:

Ben:addict: (Oh, how coule you get rid of the :addict: :D )

[QuattroFun]

The presented arguments in favour of 911 and S8 are indeed compelling. The 911 is probably the best driver's car but also the obvious choice so be prepared that half of your similarly minded neighbours have come up with the same idea. AMV is dynamically nearly as good and maybe even easier for rear-weight laymen, its much rarer and the badge is probably even more exclusive with Porsche having moved down market. However, it is more expensive, quality is a question mark for the early cars as Ben correctly points out and 911 is all-conquering and time-tested bang-for-buck star.

S8 is also great and essentially a draw on the top spot with the CLS55 in the "real world useabilty category" - but relative to a real rather light and nimble sports car, it looks too much like a regular Audi rather than something special (even compared with CLS, actually) and is perhaps also too similar in size, weight and handling characteristics as a SUV vs. sports car.

Anyway, it is lovely situation to be in. Spoilt with good choices and it is hard to go wrong with any of these cars. Good luck!:thumb:

[noushy]

Keep it coming guys, the last few posts were excellent. Yes exclusivity is nice, but not really necessary, especially when you are broken down on the freeway at 3am. Consider also that I use these cars at all times day and night, even in cold weather (if the roads are clean). My job sometimes wakes me up at 4am and I am the only person on the freeway driving 30-35 miles each way (and I cannot call in sick) :). We are fortunate that there is an Aston Dealer 20 minutes from my house (as virtually all the makes but lamborghini).

Noushy

[Benman]

Originally posted by noushy
Yes exclusivity is nice, but not really necessary, especially when you are broken down on the freeway at 3am. Consider also that I use these cars at all times day and night, even in cold weather (if the roads are clean).
Noushy
If that is the case, then especially go with the S8 or C4S.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Noushy,

Porsche is just best solution, you said yhat you going to drive car in winter also and 911 is 4 wheel drive, also.

Wehn Porsche exclusivity is in question,

Yes, Porsche is going more comercial on automarket, but that is the only thing you can do if you want to survive in car industry today.
Porsche managment realised that in the mid ninetis and they survived, AM did not realised that and they died in mid ninetis, Ford came bay and AM is now just
"SPORT-LUXURY SECTION" of Ford group, so seing that AM is more exclusive than Porsche just becouse there is going to be more Porsches than AMs on yours neighbours parking space, is not in place, specialy wehn you look, and see that in enterior of AM V8 you can find some parts from other FORD GROUP cars, (Volvo, Ford...)
I dont see luxury (exclusivity) there?

I still think that 911 is only solution for sport car, but if you need something bigger then i vote for S8, but only if 911 is to small for your needs.
But i think you can find enough place in one of the gratest 2+2 coupes of all times.

Best wishes to all,
ANDY

[Tom C]

Given your choices, I would actually opt for the M6. The new C4S is a great car. I saw one last night parked in front of the restaurant in the bottom of my workplace. The fenders are curvy and the car is really...really wide. It is a really nice car....but (and you knew it was coming)... it only ignites ones imagination as to what the new Turbo model will look like and the performance capabilities it will have. I can't see spending $100K (with all the requisite options) for a C4S when the ultimate 911 will be released within a year. The S8 is a great car, with a great engine, a great interior but utlimately will lack the performance you have now with the RS6. Don't get me wrong, it is fast in its own right but is a large car with a focus more towards luxury cruising. The AM V8 is a sports car. It lacks the practicality of the 911, S8 or M6. The power and torque are more than adequate for a relatively light car but it will not outperform (in a straight line) any of the options listed nor your current RS6. Plus the price tag is pretty hefty. The styling of the M6 is the car's only weakness (okay maybe the SMG but I would need to try it first). Although, the styling is much, much better than the M5 and I just love those super light wheels. The car is lightened a bit with the use of some carbon fiber and should be a pretty good handling car. The V-10 is really special. It will produce 50+hp over the S8's with .2 liters less displacement. The interior is ok for a new BMW. Performance wise it settles in between the upcoming 911 Turbo and the C4S. Yes, the C4S is a little quicker off the line with the rear engine and awd, but the M6 is a bullet above 80mph. One German magazine tested it 0-124mph in 12.8 seconds. Pretty amazing. The price isn't too unreasonable at approximately $105K.

Tom

[freerider]

Top Gear did a shootout between the AM V8, Porsche Carrera S and M6 at the Isle of Men (in the wet!). It can be found here (http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=top+gear+7x01) (you'll need a program to download torrents) or here (google video) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182972936330973775&q=top+gear+carrera+S)

I think you'll be suprised by what you see. Hope this helps making the decision.

Greetz Johan

[Benman]

Originally posted by freerider


I think you'll be suprised by what you see. Hope this helps making the decision.

Greetz Johan
Johan, mucho gracias amigo! :cheers:

Well Noushy,

It's a loooong video, but after watching it, if that doesn't make you're decision easier, nothing will. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[freerider]

Originally posted by Benman
Johan, mucho gracias amigo! :cheers:

Well Noushy,

It's a loooong video, but after watching it, if that doesn't make you're decision easier, nothing will. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

No problem. :asian:

FYI, the comparison starts at about 17 minutes IIRC.

Greetz Johan

[AndyBG]

Just look at that "Top gear" shootout, make things VERY clear.

:)

[SoCal]

Noushy,

All great cars, but not really that hard a choice IMHO. And the Top Gear video -- which I enjoyed, so thanks Johan for that -- merely confirms my view.

Process of elimination: Mercedes has too much weighty, electronic interference for my taste. Also, reliability (esp electronics) is becoming a bigger problem for them, even in higher end models (like E55). I'm also not a big fan of the new CLS body, though the CL in its AMG and V12 forms is a fabulous car to drive and a true coupe. So, I'd pass on the Merc.

M6 and M5 are fast, but the BMW exterior design, lack of AWD, and insane i-drive system would drive me mad. And the new SMG tranny would have to be LOTS better than their old SMG to be acceptable, let alone a pleasure. The old one was clunky and inconsistent and had a hard time sometimes picking a good gear. Even the Audi's tiptronic -- though an automatic -- was better than BMW's original SMG, and the RS6 despite the delay has pretty good downshifting maps, and upshifts and holds gears well in sport mode or with paddles. I assume the new Audi transmissions (S6 and S8) are at least as good. Though if you want a real manual, that's a different story.

For a larger sporty sedan, get the S8. Nice combination of (relatively) understated luxury and sportiness. More power and lots more luxury and style than the new S6. Of course, if it were me and you didn't have to lease a new car to keep your allowance, I'd say to keep your existing RS6 and call it a day. Pretty sweet car and still better than most of the new models. You could wait for a new RS6, but it would be a long wait and the new one -- if and when it comes - won't be under your magic $100k barrier, anyway.

Since you already have the SUV, though, it sounds like you are leaning toward more of a pure sports car. If you just wanted to look at a nice car every day, then the AMV8 would be a winner. Absolutely beautiful car. But, it's more important to drive well than to look good... AM seems to be underpowered compared to these other cars, and new models often have reliability issues.

So, bottom line, the C4S is still the clear winner. Best all around car for driving pleasure, reliability, AWD for wet weather. It will also hold its value better than the others. Loaded with options, it's not much cheaper than the others. Even so, since deprecation is the biggest cost of owning a car, that would be a good choice for economic reasons as well as performance ones.

Happy driving.