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View Full Version : "New Audi S3" big mistake engine wise.



Iceman
December 25th, 2005, 04:12
The new Audi S3 will have a 2.0T FSI engine with 191 Kw/260 hp.
In mine opinion is this a big mistake by Audi.
Audi had shown "Vorsprung Durch Technik" by re-introducing a transeverse mounted 2.6 litre FSI Turbo or TSI "Twincharger" 5 cylinder engine in the new S3.
This engine is easely produced from a half Audi S8 5.2 V10 FSI engine.

wfg, Hans.

MJN
December 25th, 2005, 12:59
Sources, mate? First see, than believe!

I could imagine that the 2,5 TFSI is comming, but that Audi was far too busy with the 4.2 V8 for the RS4 and the 5.2 V10 to make that engine in a short while. Maybe they want to keep that engine for the TT-S?

260 bhp from a 2.0T sounds good, but i could imagine they just change the 3.2 a little bit, although that isn't an FSI engine. Well, they have/had to adjust the 2.0T also....

:s3addict:

Iceman
December 25th, 2005, 13:34
Originally posted by MJN
Sources, mate? First see, than believe!

http://download.audi4ever.at/fdb/pics/2819_c9edd5232fee25fece77c6f4ebd02899.jpg

wfg, Hans.

Gallardo
December 25th, 2005, 15:15
Does the S3 comes as 3-doors version only? Or do they have also planned to launch a S3 Sportback?

I definitely hope so...
Cheers!

Iceman
December 25th, 2005, 21:37
Originally posted by Gallardo
Does the S3 comes as 3-doors version only? Or do they have also planned to launch a S3 Sportback?

I definitely hope so...
Cheers!
At the moment it look like 3 doors only.

wfg, Hans.

RXBG
December 25th, 2005, 23:13
iceman where did you get this info? of course you won't tell and that is ok but that is amazing. if audi already had an ordering packet like the one you posted then when is that hot little car going to be shown? that really throws the audi engine lineup for a loop. will the A4 be upgraded to the 220 hp or the 260 hp engine as the base model? and where does that leave that 3.2 engine and even the 3.6? what will the TT have. this is very amazing news. i wonder if you have any info on the R8 or the new B8 then??????????????///

Iceman
December 25th, 2005, 23:24
Originally posted by RXBG
then when is that hot little car going to be shown?
On the Autosalon of Geneva 2006.

wfg, Hans.

MJN
December 26th, 2005, 15:40
Originally posted by Iceman
On the Autosalon of Geneva 2006.

wfg, Hans.
That looks quite authentic :D

I understand that the S6 is also shown at the geneva '06 show? Maybe one of the S models will be on the detroit/birmingham show?

Iceman
December 26th, 2005, 16:42
Originally posted by MJN
I understand that the S6 is also shown at the geneva '06 show?
Yes but it will have his debut on Detroit motorshow January 2006.

wfg, Hans.

RXBG
December 26th, 2005, 18:05
Audi had shown "Vorsprung Durch Technik" by re-introducing a transeverse mounted 2.6 litre FSI Turbo or TSI "Twincharger" 5 cylinder engine in the new S3.

i suppose that the new cars in geneva will be the TT, S3, and RS4 avant. iceman, what do you opine?

regarding the twincharged schematic posted a while back i think that it will be made since the diagram was obviously official. but that engine sounds like it could produce around 350 hp. why not leave that engine for a true light sports car like the new TT- the S-version perhaps?

in terms of positioning TT>S3 so it deserves a better engine.

the TT has to go against the Z4 coupe and roadster, both of which have M-versions making 340 hp. hence the TT's need for that much power.

i don't think that 5-cyl engine will be in the A4 line, where luxury is more important, and so they will remain with a revised 2.0 (220-260 hp) the new 3.6 (280 hp) and the new V8 FSI with about 380 hp for the S4 and S5.

Iceman
December 26th, 2005, 20:14
Originally posted by RXBG
i suppose that the new cars in geneva will be the TT, S3, and RS4 avant. iceman, what do you opine?

The Audi RS4 Avant is planed for December 2005. !!!
The new S6 is planed for April 2006, the new S3 for May 2006 and the new TT for June 2006.
The new S6 can have his debut on the Detroit motorshow January 2006.
All four cars can/will be on Geneva 2006.

wfg, Hans.

MJN
January 2nd, 2006, 16:12
Autovisie - S3 confirmed (http://http://www.autovisie.nl/redactioneel/nieuws/archief/komst_audi_s3_bevestigd/index.xml)

According to one of the top Dutch carmagazines, the Dutch Audi importer has confired that there will be a S3 with a 260 bhp 2.0TFSI with a 6speed manual gearbox. According to them, the new S3 will be launched at the Paris Motorshow in september 2006 (and not geneva...)

260 bhp doesn't look like much if Audi wants to beat the 130i, lets hope it much more sporty than the currend A3 3.2V6

eazy
January 2nd, 2006, 21:33
Maybe it's way lighter than an normal a3.
Or maybe they let enough space for an RS3. ;)

steffenr
January 2nd, 2006, 21:47
Originally posted by MJN
Autovisie - S3 confirmed (http://http://www.autovisie.nl/redactioneel/nieuws/archief/komst_audi_s3_bevestigd/index.xml)

According to one of the top Dutch carmagazines, the Dutch Audi importer has confired that there will be a S3 with a 260 bhp 2.0TFSI with a 6speed manual gearbox. According to them, the new S3 will be launched at the Paris Motorshow in september 2006 (and not geneva...)

260 bhp doesn't look like much if Audi wants to beat the 130i, lets hope it much more sporty than the currend A3 3.2V6


who said turbo upgrade:p

clam
January 3rd, 2006, 13:07
Originally posted by Iceman
The new Audi S3 will have a 2.0T FSI engine with 191 Kw/260 hp.
In mine opinion is this a big mistake by Audi.
Audi had shown "Vorsprung Durch Technik" by re-introducing a transeverse mounted 2.6 litre FSI Turbo or TSI "Twincharger" 5 cylinder engine in the new S3.
This engine is easely produced from a half Audi S8 5.2 V10 FSI engine.

wfg, Hans.


I wouldn't say easily produced. Even if it was based on the VW 5cyl, it would need its own production line, and would need a lot of hand labour b/c of its low production volume.
And why? Why would they invest in a new engine, while they already have an award winning engine that is up to the task.

The reason why Audi used a 5cyl in the past, is b/c it is a compromise between the weight and size of a 4cyl, and the power delivery of a balanced 6cyl. As time passed, Audi was able to push its engines further back into the chassis, and the 5cyl became obsolete. The 2.0TFSI is already a smooth engine, and if you need n/a power you've got the VR6.

The automotive press often talks about melting engines together, or cutting them in half, but in reality the engines only share a few bits and pieces. Creating a transverse 5cyl turbo from the 5.2l V10 will involve a lot more than a chainsaw and a turbocompressor.

As for Twin Charging, it only serves a purpose in small engines with big turbos that would normally suffer from turbo lag. In fact, in the 1.4 TSI the compressor is disabled after the turbo has spooled up. Even at 260hp, I don't think the 2.0TFSI will have a lag problem, and a bigger 2.5l certainly won't. It would be an unnecessairy complication.
A 400hp twin charged 2.0 would be an interesting engine though.

MJN
January 3rd, 2006, 14:01
Remember the 400bhp Lancer Evo VIII, which had an extremly large turbolag and a stupid difficult clutch

Here is a review by Top Gear, where the Evo is beaten by a Fiat 1.6 in a dragstrip in top gear from 30 mph.

Top Gear: Evo8 400bhp (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5639412376935133899&q=evo+top+gear)

400 bhp 2.0l in a S3? No thanks...

clam
January 4th, 2006, 13:23
Originally posted by MJN
Remember the 400bhp Lancer Evo VIII, which had an extremly large turbolag and a stupid difficult clutch

Here is a review by Top Gear, where the Evo is beaten by a Fiat 1.6 in a dragstrip in top gear from 30 mph.

Top Gear: Evo8 400bhp (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5639412376935133899&q=evo+top+gear)

400 bhp 2.0l in a S3? No thanks...

That's exactly the situation where twin charging is needed.

I wasn't suggesting that the S3 needs to have 400hp. I was trying to say that at 260hp there isn't much lag, and so no need for twin charging. That it would only be usefull at higher outputs like 350hp-400hp.