Possible reason why RS4 Avant is late

[tailpipe]

Based on previous Sedan and Avant versions of RS models, the Avant is usually a little bit heavier and a little bit slower.

While the new RS4 Sedan version has reached target performance figures, for some reason it may have been much harder to achieve the same levels of performance with the new RS4 Avant. (It may be okay for the RS4 Avant to do 0-100 kph in 4.9 instead of 4.7, but it's not okay to do it in 5.0 or 5.1.)

So what do you do, when you can't match th perfromance of the Sedan and you can't save any more weight or retune the engine?

Enter the longitudinal DSG gearbox.

With 7 speeds instead of 6 it can be geared lower down for standing start acceleration. Also gear shifts with DSg faster than manual.

Net result is that performance of the RS4 Avant automatic masks the performance of the RS4 Avant manual.

This is probably wishful thinking on my behalf, especially as we've already been told that RS4 revs to high to accept an automatic gearbox. However, Bugatti Veyron has an engine that way out-revs the RS4 and a DSG box that can handle its torque.

Whether I'm right or wrong, I'd love to see a DSG box available as an option in the RS4 both Sedan and Avant.

[Erik]

I'm like totally happy with my DSG.

The manual in the RS4 is not bad at all, very 'short shift' but I'd probably order it with DSG if I had the choice.

[buyalemon]

I think there is some truth in this ..though I'm sceptic to a 7-speed DSG.
I also think there's some RS-marketing tactics here ...theeey love to keep the best to the last (The B5 was very late released)...((stretching the model a bit longer (RS6 plus)).

So ...I think they wait because they want to stretch the "hype" of the model ...to do this they'll bring some improvements into the Avant.

//Magnus

[Iceman]

The Bugatti Veyron have a Quattro Turbo W16 engine with 1001 hp by 6000 rpm.
I'm not sure it will rev higher then a RS4 engine.

wfg, Hans.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Iceman
The Bugatti Veyron have a Quattro Turbo W16 engine with 1001 hp by 6000 rpm.
I'm not sure it will rev higher then a RS4 engine.

wfg, Hans.
I think it revs to 7000 rpms but no more. It won't out:revs: a :rs4addict

Ben:addict:

[Fab]

I hope the avant will have equivalent performance vs the sedan. I would be very disapointed and may reconsider my order if performances don't match expectation.:vgrumpy:

[kujo]

I'd love it, if that was the case.
And, they change thier minds and bring is Stateside.

No RS4 Avant in the US..... BS !!!!!!!!!!

Come on AoA, we're not all SUV lovin rednecks !! :D

kj

[Benman]

Originally posted by kujo

Come on AoA, we're not all SUV lovin rednecks !! :D

kj
Amen to THAT!

Ben:addict: (although my neck will get red if I stay in the sun too long.:p )

[Kappe]

audi hasn't got any problem with the disign of the RS4 avant.. And the speed of it. if they use the same materials and engine as in the sedan the weight differents would be minimum..

With that little bit more weight and the 420HP V8 there's almost no 0-100km/h differents. The bigest 0-100 limitation is becaus of the Quattro all weel drive system. If they make a rear weel drive version. I would be faster to 100.
But they choose for the Quattro becaus it's much bether in everyday road use and it's safer. Only in the rain It would do a faster 0-100 with :bow: Quattro:bow:

It's just that there is more than disigning a are car.. It takes time to get it on the road.. And audi is not big enough to handle that much cars.. They also had to disign and build the new Audi S8, Q7 , RS4 sedan, new RS6 , Q5 , new A4 cabrio , new A3 cabrio , new A2 etc etc and they also have the current moddels

So trust me it's not that audi can't make the RS4.. It's just that it takes time.

And offcource they can make a DSG version.. (same thing with the ceramic brakes) It's just that audi marketing thought the normal version would be enough for the people who would Exualy buy the cars. (now days almost everything is disited by the marketing divisions.. to bad :( they think they know everything, but yeah audi also has to make some money :p )

[yetis]

I don't think Audi is having problems with the avant and performance. The AMG E55 wagon is faster than the AMG e55 sedan (Salon). The is apparently due to weight placement?

[rks838]

This is due to weight placement. More weight is on the rear axle, helping the tires gain traction back there and improving acceleration. Sort of Porsche 911-style.

[Kappe]

Originally posted by rks838
This is due to weight placement. More weight is on the rear axle, helping the tires gain traction back there and improving acceleration. Sort of Porsche 911-style.

Doesn't work with audi th0 :D
:mech: Quattro:dance:

[Iceman]

Mostly a station wagon have better aerodynamics over a sedan.

wfg, Hans.

[Kappe]

Originally posted by Iceman
Mostly a station wagon have better aerodynamics over a sedan.

wfg, Hans.

ROFL :D that's not true at all! why do you think cars who are disigned for speeds of 300+km/h (when aerodynamics is everything) are not station wagons?
I can explane you why but thats a wast of time :p Just don't give my country a bad name with noncens :hihi: grapjuh :p

[Iceman]

Originally posted by Kappe
ROFL :D that's not true at all! :p
Dat weet ik ook wel, maar het is leuk om de reacties te lezen.

wfg, Hans.

[Kappe]

Originally posted by Iceman
Dat weet ik ook wel, maar het is leuk om de reacties te lezen.

wfg, Hans.

LOL :p btw where you from? also an audi owner? :D

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by Kappe
The bigest 0-100 limitation is becaus of the Quattro all weel drive system. If they make a rear weel drive version. I would be faster to 100.
But they choose for the Quattro becaus it's much bether in everyday road use and it's safer. Only in the rain It would do a faster 0-100 with :bow: Quattro:bow:



They dident chose the Quattro, they are stuck whit it since they launced it, and now days they are getting enlighten that if they want to stay in the game they better make it more rearwheel driven, as RS4 is now.

Quattro 50/50 awd was untill now a big trade marke for Audi, its a big step for them to leave( or if you will refine) that trade marke in the sportscar segment, and they would not do it if it was not for the better!

Audi has all time put their head in the sand and dident wanted to take in that a rear driven car is a more comunicating sportscar, but as it now shows they changed strategi, and in my opinion and many whit me we are glad.

Porsche awd cars have also a system that divide the power more to the rear under time and when rear lose grip it tranfer to front and the other way around.
Still they are far from as fun and communicating as Porsches purely rear driven cars.

A car that pulls on the wheels in front is never as exact and communicating as a car that only turn and brake on the front wheel! But there are for sure other benifits whit awd in the safty and all year round aspect.
Just my 2cents

But what do you mean that a quattro is slower to 100km? than a rear driven?

[Kappe]

Originally posted by 8:05 RS6
They dident chose the Quattro, they are stuck whit it since they launced it, and now days they are getting enlighten that if they want to stay in the game they better make it more rearwheel driven, as RS4 is now.

Quattro 50/50 awd was untill now a big trade marke for Audi, its a big step for them to leave( or if you will refine) that trade marke in the sportscar segment, and they would not do it if it was not for the better!

Audi has all time put their head in the sand and dident wanted to take in that a rear driven car is a more comunicating sportscar, but as it now shows they changed strategi, and in my opinion and many whit me we are glad.

Porsche awd cars have also a system that divide the power more to the rear under time and when rear lose grip it tranfer to front and the other way around.
Still they are far from as fun and communicating as Porsches purely rear driven cars.

A car that pulls on the wheels in front is never as exact and communicating as a car that only turn and brake on the front wheel! But there are for sure other benifits whit awd in the safty and all year round aspect.
Just my 2cents

But what do you mean that a quattro is slower to 100km? than a rear driven?

Yeah They did choose the Quattro! LOL! It's audi's vision of best road car. And yes there now finding out that more power on the rear weels is better.. Quattro is just evolving.. Nothing wrong with that imo.. (and audi doesn't make pure sports cars :) they make fast saloons. and yes than AWD is the best! you buy it for normal road not for the race track)

And why is a AWD car limited with AWD in 0-100? Becaus you cant rev it like a rear weel drive car, and just shoot away from standstil.. Try doing that with a Quattro.. (I have a Quattro an have driven a lot of fast AWD cars, so trust me I know) The start makes a big differents in the 0-100 time..
If it's a rainy day the quattro has advantage th0 :hihi: Cuz the real weel drive car just spins..

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by Kappe
Yeah They did choose the Quattro! LOL! It's audi's vision of best road car. And yes there now finding out that more power on the rear weels is better.. Quattro is just evolving.. Nothing wrong with that imo.. (and audi doesn't make pure sports cars :) they make fast saloons. and yes than AWD is the best! you buy it for normal road not for the race track)

And why is a AWD car limited with AWD in 0-100? Becaus you cant rev it like a rear weel drive car, and just shoot away from standstil.. Try doing that with a Quattro.. (I have a Quattro an have driven a lot of fast AWD cars, so trust me I know) The start makes a big differents in the 0-100 time..
If it's a rainy day the quattro has advantage th0 :hihi: Cuz the real weel drive car just spins..

Thats tru Audi is making very fast salons and not the drivers car out there yet, but they are on the way of doing fast salons that olso is the drivers car. It could be what we will se in the futer maybee?:thumb:

If we stay mature in this matter, we cant say whats best. Whats best for one is not whats best for the next! We all by cars for many diffrent reasons. And its no wrong in driving a car in the street that is a great communicating car, you dont need to take it on track just beccuse it talk back to you in a nice clear way. And the other way around.

To my knowledege its often the quattro car that win the start initialy to 100km due to its easy to start and most importent consistent!! Rear driven is far from consistent, as you sure seen the guy standing on place spinning and the guy lauching fast in rear-d(but thats not to often you see)
Thats what make quattro the vinner most of the times for the avrage joe out ther. Its neaded more skills to launch a rear driven fast, and what about reving or not as you said, if you rev to much on rear driven you just stand still. To start a rear car fast its all about not rev to high!

My RS6 was limited so you could not rev higher than small revs, even that i all times won the first bit to most rear driven cars(due to rear its hard launched), but at 60km or 80 they pass due many time of transmission loss on my car.

Ther was no limiter to rev high in my old RS4 as i remember, and that relly jump starts fast if reved high. I know of EVO6 cars that rev so high and got the power they spinn all 4 wheel when launced, and not many keeps up whit them from stand still!

On race tracks you start a rear car better and easyer of course due to slicks.

[Kappe]

with a rear weel drive car you play with the revs and the clutch @ stand still starts.. If your a good driver you will always be faster than a AWD car with same power to weight ratio (offcource you have to got some good tires th0 :P)

And maybe you can spin the four weels of a tuned evo yeah :P But let mee see you do that with a RS4 or RS6 or any other heavy car with AWD even with a lambo murcielago its impossible.

BTW on the track the new Quattro system owns the rear wheel drive competition easy.. It's fun to go sideways th0 :P but not the best way to go around a circuit :) I owned a lot of BMW M series and AMG's @ the ring with a RS6 due to Quattro (and that's not even the new 60/40 of the RS4 :P )

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by Kappe
with a rear weel drive car you play with the revs and the clutch @ stand still starts.. If your a good driver you will always be faster than a AWD car with same power to weight ratio (offcource you have to got some good tires th0 :P)

And maybe you can spin the four weels of a tuned evo yeah :P But let mee see you do that with a RS4 or RS6 or any other heavy car with AWD even with a lambo murcielago its impossible.

BTW on the track the new Quattro system owns the rear wheel drive competition easy.. It's fun to go sideways th0 :P but not the best way to go around a circuit :) I owned a lot of BMW M series and AMG's @ the ring with a RS6 due to Quattro (and that's not even the new 60/40 of the RS4 :P )

As well as you can play whit the clutch and the rev on RS4, no diffrens( and i dont whit that said mean stock RS4 will spinn all 4 but you can still rev it and decide how you will lift the clutch!!)

About the rear driven starts, Yes buts thats nothing you see in the day to day life im sorry to say, but a good launched gt3 on r-c is damn fast to 100km.
Have you tried it whit and Murcilago, i guess not? You can do much whit a stock RS6, even doughnuts on dry!

Have you ever driven a Porsche turbo on track? Its not as comunicatig as Porsches rear cars. Why? as i said its getting to fussy of a feeling when the wheel you turn and brake whit also is pulling the car! Not nearly as exact as when the front tiers are ther to brake and change direction as its on rear driven cars.
This is well known and dont relly nead to be mentioned.

It could fore sure be better to go a bit sidways whit slightly drift on tracks and this also depends VERY much on what kind of track you drive, ther is no track exactly like the other one. Espesally its to recomend if you happend to drive a 50/50 awd car, and would prefer it to go a bit faster thru some slow speed bends.

You cant own anything at the ring, at the ring you nead to take things for what it is. Its no race going on where you know to 100% all others are as you going 100% to win.

If you think you owned some just beccuse you drove past them on the ring, you are not to awere in this situations. This can not be used to evaluate anything of quattro or not, how old are you?

Its more or les driver related thing that sets the standard on tracks espesally on the ring as its so many peopel there, and all whit diffrent experience of track driving.

You did for a varios of reasons drive faster than some, to evaluate this in a way that quattro is better than this or dat is kids stuff, you just drove faster then them. Its a drivers thing.

If you want a pretty fair comparsion on cars round times on the ring whit the same driver instead of using your selv as a refrens, check out www.track-challenge.com

I spent 14 days att the ring in september just driving the ring and the GP Curcuit, and i go around the ring in traffic in 8.05 BTG, that do not mean all the guys i drove past in these days and ther cars are les god than me or my car. It could be the case but very far from any FACTS for sure!!

[Kappe]

I understand your story m8 :)

But yes I have driven the murcielago, so I know how it handle's

And yes I drove porsche's. That will be the 2000 boxster S, the first GT3, the latest GT3, 911 Turbo, 911 carrera 4 (2001 chip tuned), 911 carrera 2 cabrio (2001 and 2003 model)

And yes sometimes it's a little bit faster with a little bit drift. But you wont have any tires after a couple rounds (not good ones at least)

And yes I owned some cars cuz they were friends of my :) 1new M5, 1 old M5, 1 M3csl, and a cls55 :) (and I have al driven them, not on the ring th0 :p )

and stil a rear weel drive car is faster @ take of in my opinion.. Maybe you are just not that good of a driver :blush:

But m8 I understand what your saying, only the 0-100 I still think thats faster with a rear weel drive car :)

[7:53 RS6]

Im as good as a driver that I on request from the foto guy can throw my 2toner RS6 avant in a powersliding thru 2 bends in a row at Nurburgring, in section Hatzenbach.

That would be the right and then the left turn.

You se the end of the Left turn in my Avantar pic under my signatur.
The amcro is prety close a few meters away from the track on the whole ring, so i guess I have some ide of how to drive cars.
:bye:

[Kappe]

Originally posted by 8:05 RS6
Im as good as a driver that I on request from the foto guy can throw my 2toner RS6 avant in a powersliding thru 2 bends in a row at Nurburgring, in section Hatzenbach.

That would be the right and then the left turn.

You se the end of the Left turn in my Avantar pic under my signatur.
The amcro is prety close a few meters away from the track on the whole ring, so i guess I have some ide of how to drive cars.
:bye:

Looks more like a drift to me.. And I did that a couple days ago with a 2000 A6 2.4Quattro :confused:

And yes I believe you can drive very and very well indeed.. But 0-100 In a rear weel drive car still is hard.. Even when you can do power slide's and make record times @ the ring and if you are a proffesional race driver..
A lot of factory 0-100 records are hard to do your self.. Especialy in a 400HP rear weel drive car :)

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by Kappe
Looks more like a drift to me.. And I did that a couple days ago with a 2000 A6 2.4Quattro :confused:

And yes I believe you can drive very and very well indeed.. But 0-100 In a rear weel drive car still is hard.. Even when you can do power slide's and make record times @ the ring and if you are a proffesional race driver..
A lot of factory 0-100 records are hard to do your self.. Especialy in a 400HP rear weel drive car :)

There you have it, you talk against what you said before in a way. You said a rear was faster initaly to 100, and I said in real life situation its often quattro that is faster due to the rear is harder and not as consistent to launch as quattro. Hence the most peopel in rear lose initaly against quattro! Thats what you often see out in the real world.

Now if you read what you said in this therad you say just what I said all time. You are confirming my point! And thats the reason you seldom se a rear take the initaly gain in lauch against quattro. You better take it in now as you talk my way now.


I guess you are not aware that a lot of the factory 0-100 times are not always real life tests. its calculated! Hence its hard to do your selvf. And when calculated ist kind of always the best so to speak circumstance :thumb: Which is not always the case when mags or avrege jo try. Dont forget that slightly wrong airpressur in tier mess up things bad even 0-100 times.

To end this, the diffrens on your slide and my was that i did a right bend and a left bend in one slide on recuest and its on film(seek forum).
That you happend to get your tail sliding in one bend while driving i have no problems taking you word for.:thumb:

[Kappe]

Originally posted by 8:05 RS6
There you have it, you talk against what you said before in a way. You said a rear was faster initaly to 100, and I said in real life situation its often quattro that is faster due to the rear is harder and not as consistent to launch as quattro. Hence the most peopel in rear lose initaly against quattro! Thats what you often see out in the real world.

Now if you read what you said in this therad you say just what I said all time. You are confirming my point! And thats the reason you seldom se a rear take the initaly gain in lauch against quattro. You better take it in now as you talk my way now.


I guess you are not aware that a lot of the factory 0-100 times are not always real life tests. its calculated! Hence its hard to do your selvf. And when calculated ist kind of always the best so to speak circumstance :thumb: Which is not always the case when mags or avrege jo try. Dont forget that slightly wrong airpressur in tier mess up things bad even 0-100 times.

To end this, the diffrens on your slide and my was that i did a right bend and a left bend in one slide on recuest and its on film(seek forum).
That you happend to get your tail sliding in one bend while driving i have no problems taking you word for.:thumb:

Yeah I understand what your saying th0 :D

And next time your @ the ring tell me :P you have to learn me that slide in a normal RS6 :p

But yes 0-100 in normal life situations are mostly won by quattro's indeed :p
But this discussion was about factory information. ( I know that the times and speeds in the factory information isn't always reachable in real life, But audi can reach the factory times almost every time th0:applause: , or there really close :p )