Audi B7 RS4 test results from AMS.

[Julz RS4]

Here the test results from the Auto Motor und Sport magazine of this month. :rs4addict

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5917/jw3dx.th.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jw3dx.jpg)
Source: JW

[CarbonFibre]

Can anyone translate the pros/cons on the bottom of the page? I hope they price this car realistically here in the U.S.

[rks838]

Hmmm...all I could understand was the acceleration numbers :hihi:. It's interesting that they achieved a better-than-stated-by-Audi 0-100km/h number of 4.7 (Audi said 4.8), but fell behind Audi's number in 0-200km/h with 17.2 (Audi said 16.6). When Audi came out with their numbers, I was sort of surprised to see a 0-100km/h time of "only" 4.8, but considering that time, I was also surprised to see 0-200km/h of 16.6. Thoughts??

What other important numbers are in there?

[Kram]

Very bad numbers.

Here are samples of stage I RS4 B5. Ok, they are not stock, but that is a thing that I think is important to Audi fans, their great tuning margins.

With just a chip and a new exhaust, M5e90 beaters were possible.
I doubt that even with expensive stage XX mods the N/A engine will be clode to the old engine.


Here (http://www.evotech.de/de_2_3_7_7.htm)


Now versus old one:
The car weight too much. :deal:
The brakes are about the same. :confused:
The Slalon is about the same. :confused:
The straight line performance is way behind (stand still is a shame and even worst on rolling). :harass:

Thanks Audi to play BMW game. :doh: And worst, BMW old game, cause the new M5 and M6 are great road cars and far from this on tracks (on comparative terms to their road performance).

:argue:

[M&M]

Here's AMS (the same mag that tested the RS4 above) test of the E46 M3:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/1829/s4test2teil25ep.jpg

OK, that argument is done & I guess I was right as usual. Next topic: I bet the RS4 will do around 8:10-8:15 around the Ring. Who wants to take a bet?

[buyalemon]

that M3 does 0-200 in 16,8 is a big fat lie ..perhaps a csl ..perhaps! I think the latest Carrera S comes down under 17 sek ...and it's years faster than an M3!

[Speedou]

We have to remember that the most of the cars (engines) gives the best performance after something like 20 000km, so if the test car was about brand new it couldn't do the best.

Now we have to just wait for other tests.

[M&M]

Originally posted by buyalemon
that M3 does 0-200 in 16,8 is a big fat lie ..perhaps a csl ..perhaps! I think the latest Carrera S comes down under 17 sek ...and it's years faster than an M3!

CSL & M3 run almost even in a straight line. SMG tends to be slower off the line. CSL is not reallya straight line car.

But I understand if you want to pull the sore loser excuse. Here's a good excuse for you to use: The magazine was rigged. Hell, you can use that excuse quite often.

[M&M]

Funny that the "super" M3 didn't beat this CSL:

http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/m3cslst2003-1.htm

Supertest in sport auto 08/2003
Gewicht 1421 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,6 s
0 - 100 km/h 4,8 s
0 - 120 km/h 6,8 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 8,6 s
0 - 160 km/h 10,8 s
0 - 180 km/h 14,2 s
0 - 200 km/h 16,7 s

[Benman]

Originally posted by M&M

But I understand if you want to pull the sore loser excuse. Here's a good excuse for you to use: The magazine was rigged. Hell, you can use that excuse quite often.
No excuse here, just sound reasoning. The test of the M3 was done under much cooler climate conditions, therefor engine makes more HP, i.e. faster accelleration times. RS 4 test was done during much warmer weather i.e., slower times.

My recommendation is to have a test of both cars at the same time. That way us Audi "excuse" makers can't whine.

And for that matter, by your own admission, the CSL isn't really just about straight line numbers (why it's straight line times are so close to stock), so by the same logic, the may be a lot more to the RS 4 than just straight line numbers.

Having said that, I will be the first to admit that I am dissapointed with their results. The RS 4 I was in sure felt a hell of a lot quicker than the regular S4.

Ben:addict:

[buyalemon]

Sore looser?? ...I'm not a car ...I don't own a RS4 ...but I have driven M3:s ...and I have been present when we have been testing it's numbers (in different conditions) by the way ..about cold conditions, it's just hard to get real grip! We have never been close to any 16,8 up to 200 ..M3 is a great car ..just not as fast as some people seem to think. And I'm pretty sure Audi won't release car that's supposed to kill the M3 ....but in the end it would be slower ...doon't think so!

[M&M]

Benman, I like you. You speak logically. YEah the cars weren't tested on the same day. Temperature makes a difference. According to Boyles law if you work out the numbers for every 8 deg celcius lower you gain 1hp more. So if the temps were 20 deg apart, you would get 2.5 hp more. Normally aspirated cars don't get aaffected as much as turbo cars where heat soak & intercooler efficiency come into it. There for every 8 deg celc, you might get 2-3 hp more. But the M3 & RS4 are both NA.

Having said that, in my personal experience I find humidity & barometric pressure, & surface & wind conditions make more of a difference that temp. But the surface was the same & the quattro takes that out of the equation anyway.

The wind wasn't a factor as from the magazine shots of AMS tests (where you see the car going through the cones & the grandstand in the background), it seems their test track is pretty well sheltered from the wind.

But I'll be the 1st to agree that Humidity & barometric pressure can give or take a good few hp. Maybe 20hp if 2 cars are at 2 extremes. But even so, the M3 is out of production & has absolutely NO RIGHT even being in the frame against an RS4. Even if it gets close is a victory for BMW. To actually be tested slightly faster by the same mag is bad news for Audi. The RS4's slalom numbers don't look good either.

I think the RS4 is a good car & I like the engine concept. Putting a neutral cap on I think all things being equal it will be slighly faster than an E46 M3. Not much mind you, just slightly. Whether that's something to shout from the rooftops is another debate.

[M&M]

Originally posted by buyalemon
Sore looser?? ...I'm not a car ...I don't own a RS4 ...but I have driven M3:s ...and I have been present when we have been testing it's numbers (in different conditions) by the way ..about cold conditions, it's just hard to get real grip! We have never been close to any 16,8 up to 200 ..M3 is a great car ..just not as fast as some people seem to think. And I'm pretty sure Audi won't release car that's supposed to kill the M3 ....but in the end it would be slower ...doon't think so!

Here's the deal. Same dyno same day, our local Audi club had a dyno shoot-out. The stock M3's made on average 40hp more on the wheels than the stock S4's. Even though they make the same power at the crank.

Then there's the fact that the S4's over 250lbs more. You do the math. The RS4 will probably dyno about 20hp more on the wheels than an M3 but have to pull a lot more weight.

[QuattroFun]

M&M makes some good points this time around.

Fact is that the RS4 is not performance-wise what we had hoped for: my German friends tell me that the new Sport Auto out today also has a RS4 test. Weight 1724kg, 0-100 4.9 and 0-200 17.1 at 20 degrees celcius. Hockenheim with sports suspension plus and P Zero Corsas a good but not outstanding 1.15.8. This is better than M3 (1.16.3) and new M5 (1.16.5) - but remember the Corsas on RS4 - but nowhere near the CSL with Pilot Cups (1.13.something) and the M6 on Corsas (1.14.4). The poor slalom times in AMS are not too much of a worry, though: for mighty M6, AMS only got 63.1 vs. 67.9 at Sport Auto.

So where does that leave us? First, the new M3 has to be real cock-up not to beat the way too porky and not that dynamic RS4 and this is highly unlikely. Second, the RS4 nonetheless seems to be a very and fast nice all-round car with much improved daily comfort on the initial reports and I will stick with my choice as quattro is also imperative in the winter where I come from.

:rs4addict

[buyalemon]

That wasn't the issue ..I only said that a normal M3 doesn't go from 0-200 in 16,8 swedish seconds! And by the way ...NM wins races not bhp!

//M

[M&M]

NM do not win races HP does. HP BY DEFINTION is the rate at which torque is applied. No offence, but did you go to school?

[Hawk]

Originally posted by Julz RS4
Here the test results from the Auto Motor und Sport magazine of this month. :rs4addict

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5917/jw3dx.th.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jw3dx.jpg)
Source: JW
The page not exist:confused:

[buyalemon]

M&M ..thanks for the insult ..mature :vhmmm:
I know your type ...instead of sharing an interest ..you have to play DTM champ or something! Wy do you think that the next M3 will have V8? ...more tourque? nooo ...highend performance ...suuure :doh:

[steve]

Buyalemon, M&M is right, it's pure HP that wins races. Torque is better for the everyday circumstances.

[M&M]

OK I'm the bad guy here. Torque on its own does nothing. It's a static unit & doesn't even have a unit of time in it. It needs to be applied over a certain time period to be useful. THat, my dear friend is horspower. Torque applied over a time period.

Let me break it down for you. Force = mass x acceleration. So if you place a tennis ball on a bar & apply a force on it for an instant with your finger it will accelerate.

Now that acceleration is determined by the force applied & the mass of the tennis ball. BUT, the ball will start decelerating immediately. Forces of friction, etc are acting on the ball.

You need to keep applying force on the ball for it to keep accelerating. NOW THAT IS HORSEPOWER. The rate that you your finger can apply the torque.

Gettit? HP is a rate & has a unit of time in it. It can be measured against a stopwatch. How can you say torque matters in a performance application if isn' even something that has a unit of time in it?

[M&M]

Hawk, here you go man. Knock yourself out:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2648/rs4test8oh.jpg

[Hawk]

Thanks:D

[Jerry D]

I don't want to get thrown into the middle of this debate. But the magazine in question did give the RS4 5 stars. Last time I looked that is a pretty good rating. The car must have done something right??

Drive it, then compare it with the M3, numbers mean ZERO in the REAL WORLD (you know, that place most of us live in???)

Jerry D

[Julz RS4]

Originally posted by Julz RS4
Here the test results from the Auto Motor und Sport magazine of this month. :rs4addict

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5917/jw3dx.th.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jw3dx.jpg)
Source: JW

:harass: http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2/rs41ob.png:rotflmao:

This article is so popular that it freaked imageshack! :hihi:

Thanks M&M to repost the article, because I can't edit my first post after 120 min in this forum.

Here others B7 RS4 tests results from the Sport Auto magazine.

http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/9378/sportauto11kq.jpghttp://img295.imageshack.us/img295/151/sportauto27eb.jpg


Julz RS4 :rs4addict

[alex_s3]

hmm.. The audi is 0.1 second faster than the M3 0-100km/t but 0-200km/t it`s 0.5 seconds slower..( rs4 17,2 M3 16,7) somthings wroong!! and in another test the rs4 does 4,9 sec 0-100 and 0.1 sec better 0-200km/t than the other test... how is this possible?! somthings wrong about this tests.... and now way that the m3 does 16,7 0-200 km/t!! It must be in a very big downhill!! :) with wind and sun in the back..

[M&M]

Alex, it's called drivetrain loss.

[Benman]

Originally posted by M&M
Benman, I like you.
And I like you just fine as well. ;)

Originally posted by M&M

But even so, the M3 is out of production & has absolutely NO RIGHT even being in the frame against an RS4. Even if it gets close is a victory for BMW. To actually be tested slightly faster by the same mag is bad news for Audi.


If we remember, when the RS 6 came out, it was the M5 "killer". Once released however, while it could beat it, it hardly "killed" it. This is looking like the same story for the RS 4. It WILL beat the M3 but it's not quite killing it as hoped. What is worse (or better depending on your perspective) is that the all new upcoming M3 will beat the RS 4 just as the all new M5 will (and does) beat the RS 6.

That said, there is nothing, NOTHING that is printed by a mag that would get me to trade in my oh so very sweet :rs6kiss: for an M5. NOTHING. :thumb:

Ben:addict: :rs6kiss:

[M&M]

Like I said, all things being equal I expect the RS4 will be slightly faster than the M3. Once all the RS4 tests are out we can average the 0-200 for both cars & I estimate the RS4 will be 0.2-0.4 faster to 200.

And it is a great car as well. I was expecting more. If Audi had upped the ante & made a significant leap forward, it would have forced M division & AMG to work hard to counter. That way the consumer scores as he has a wider variety of high quality care to choose from.

[Hawk]

Hockenheim

BMW M3 1.16,9 (1/2005)
BMW M3 1.16,3 (3/2003)
Audi RS4 1.15,8 (20 °C) with PZero Corsa
:rolleyes:

[Fab]

You can read any numbers :

for example Auto Bild gave the M3 19.3 s 0-200kmh
Sport Auto (very reliable french magazine) never gave better than 18s for the M3

Honestly 16.7 s for the M3 is far too optimistic in my opinion.

Considering that Sport Auto (German) gives RS6+ (480hp) at 17.8s and E55 AMG touring (476hp) at 15.6s both being helped with turbo and compressor any numbers around 17s or slightly less is definitely good for the new RS4. Don't you think so ?

Other point already stated : the RS4 just started being tested with very low km engines which obviously can't show the real power of the car.

my personal main concern is how much slower will the avant acceleration numbers will be compared to the sedan.... hope not more than 0.1s to 100kmh and 0.4s to 200kmh

[Speedou]

Originally posted by QuattroFun
M&M makes some good points this time around.

Fact is that the RS4 is not performance-wise what we had hoped for: my German friends tell me that the new Sport Auto out today also has a RS4 test. Weight 1724kg, 0-100 4.9 and 0-200 17.1 at 20 degrees celcius. Hockenheim with sports suspension plus and P Zero Corsas a good but not outstanding 1.15.8. This is better than M3 (1.16.3) and new M5 (1.16.5) - but remember the Corsas on RS4 - but nowhere near the CSL with Pilot Cups (1.13.something) and the M6 on Corsas (1.14.4). The poor slalom times in AMS are not too much of a worry, though: for mighty M6, AMS only got 63.1 vs. 67.9 at Sport Auto.

So where does that leave us? First, the new M3 has to be real cock-up not to beat the way too porky and not that dynamic RS4 and this is highly unlikely. Second, the RS4 nonetheless seems to be a very and fast nice all-round car with much improved daily comfort on the initial reports and I will stick with my choice as quattro is also imperative in the winter where I come from.

:rs4addict

Yeh, you are speaking smart things my friend! That is about the fact and it's disapointing me, but we still have to wait for M3 vs. RS4. And then comes out the new M3 and I don't have to guess is it faster...

[zumbalak]

Saying Hi to you guys from Audiworld forums.

The guy that is thinking M3 is the top of all cars, M&M is a complete troll on audiworld, and mbworld forums. He is also not much cared for in m3forum and bimmerforums. I would seriously consider ignoring him because he is a top notch troll and also a big huge liar. He always comes to Audiworld and mbworld and starts trolling the boards, and it just is so annoying because he does it all the time. He lies about his cars, and I have proved the bs a few times.

He recently came and opened two folders on b6s4 forum and also in b7s4 forum just for the sake of trolling. His nick in audiworld is 343bhp other places is m&m
http://forums.audiworld.com/s4b7/msgs/13450.phtml

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4b6/msgs/293282.phtml

Please see the links below of his lies where he claimed he owned the m3 but his pics did not end up correct, and then he said he was driving someone else's car etc, he always posts these vids of m3 racing with audi etc, but it never is his car, always someone else's.

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4b6/msgs/274664.phtml

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4b6/msgs/274595.phtml

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4b6/msgs/274901.phtml


On MBworld he does the same thing, posts all over the place and trolls the c55 and e55, and people in there are sick and tired of him. His threads are getting locked now. Even in his own car forums his threads are getting locked like the so called kill stories he posted on bimmerforums, and most people do not even pay attention to him much anymore in other bmw forums.

On mbworld a member "improviz" also caught his BS and posted it everywhere, but this guy m&m being a complete troll does not even feel shamed one bit and leave people alone. The only thing he does is posting magazine tests and he always posts the same test for m3, the swedish or german mag that has 0-200 at 16.7 sec, and her in USA no US magazine came close to those numbers, maybe the US spec m3 is very much slower.

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1276924&postcount=30

His trolling examples on mbworld forums

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1269477#post1269477 and of course due to flaming that thread was also closed by the mod, and the mod was usually giving him benefit of the doubt until recently.

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1268854&postcount=109 this is a post by a member in mbworld that caught the BS of m&m

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112689&page=1&pp=50 and this is what happened when somebody posted a c32 beating m3 3 times, and m&m just couldn't accept it and started his trolling and flaming.

Well he just does need to be ignored IMHO.
Thanks guys.

[M&M]

Hey Zumbalak, I'm flattered man. Rallying up the troops to rise up against me. very heroic. But I think everyone here already knows me. Apparently I'm a bad person for having an opinion. But you see the topic of this thread is the B7 RS4, not me. If you want to get to know me better mail me & I've give you the full monty, including my shoe size.

My favourite colour is blue BTW.

[Julz RS4]

Please stay on the B7 RS4 topic ! :nana:

[QuattroFun]

To put things into perspective, both AMS and SA apparently liked the new RS4 a lot overall and think that it will be great in road use. Actually expect the same and certainly hope so as my money is on the line.

Moreover, went through the historical test numbers and they do show progress thank god: as an average of 2-3 tests in AMS & SA, 0-100/0-200: 4.8/17.2 RS4 B7 sedan, 4.8/17.7 RS4 A B5, and 5.6/20.5 S4 B6 sedan. The new RS4 does HH in 1.15.8 on Corsas & with plus suspension (SA 10/05) - the old RS4 did the same in 1.17.5 (!) with the same Corsa tyre and extra chassis set-up (SA 11/01) and in 1.18.2 with standard tyres and suspension (SA 10/00). The S4 B6 sedan did HH in 1.18.1 on standard tyres (SA 03/03) and the Avant was 1s slower there whilst making 8.29 on the Ring with standard tyres. Yet, the RS4 A B5 managed the Ring in 8.25 on standard tyres (SA 10/00) and 8.17 with the Corsas (SA 11/01). On the Ring, the Corsas are apparently a bigger factor than on HH, which sounds strange, though. The new M5's Ring of 8.13 on standard tyres is not bad at all but actually not that good either given the car's massive 275PS/tonne, lenient vmax restrictor and the long straights, where you really can pump up speed.

That said, I hope Audi comes up with some new solutions. My concern is not RS4's 0-200 17.1-17.2 versus claimed 16.6 - in fact this is rather irrelevant outside Germany - but rather the high weight. They have to do wonders with the new RS4 Avant for it to be even as good as the B5 given the weight penalty, which will be another 60 kg or so on the RS4 sedan's 1724-1778kg. The old RS4 Avant came in at 1675-1696kg.

The new RS4 seems to be in spirit if not straightline speed much like the new M5 amd nothing like the M3 CSL - great on the road but rather poor on the track and much for the same reason; high weight. I do not want a track car personally but I would like to see a serious diet in the name of agility nevertheless.

The new B8 platform is likely to help weight distribution but how about the weight problem, as the car will reportedly grow again by 10 cm. The next RS6? Well, a blown 600PS V10 will probably do the straightline trick but given the donor A6 bulky size and high weight (+100kg or so on the predecessor...) and the big engine's weight at the front I do not have high hopes when it comes to agility. The fact that neither RS4 nor the M6 managed to shave any net weight on their donor cars despite rather extensive use of lightweight materials and avoidance of electric egines in RS4 (impossible from a marketing point of view for the RS6) proves the point. Aluminium space frame anyone?

[alex_s3]

well well well.. :) hehe somone is a big liar! hehe.. If M&M lie in a video what will he do on basic forums..? any way, his be caught for liar on the 3-4 other forums.. how can we now whats he telling is the truth? AND NOW I NOW WHY HE IS SO INTERESTED IN M3 BEATING THE RS4.. maybe beacuse he has en M3... in one of his movies he ( with a lightly tuned M3 ) beast an 520 hp RS6! its not possible..!!!!

[M&M]

What are you on about man? I never beat a 520hp RS6. I've lost to a few RS6's. I never lied about anything.

I always post videos & tell it like it is. Some people take offence & push my buttons. Maybe it's my fault to a degree for allowing myself to get baited like that, but it's only then that I have tended to get upset & fight back.

Anyway, who wants to know what college I went to? I'm right handed by the way. maybe we should create a separate forum to discuss my favourite food. Or is that relevant on an RS4 thread?

[buyalemon]

M&M ..please ..show me an M3 that can go from 0-200 in 16,8 ..I can mail you my adress if you like to come by (thats for the duscussion you are avoiding)! When I said NM wins races ...I didn't mean F1 at imola ...I ment real world racing ..and I totally agree with the guy that said "forget the numers ..drive the cars" ...that's the important thing (and where tourque matters, not bhp at 8000 rpm)!

About tourque, before BMW had developed their vanos system the cars hardly moved at all under 6000 rpm ...if NM at low rpm:s is your thing M&M ...I guess you own a stinky old BMW ...and you have never been close to a E46 ..which truly delivers good tourque for that type of machines ...sweet machine by the way!

[M&M]

Buyalemon with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. An M3 has 80% of its max torque at 2000rpm. It has more than enough torque for its gearing.

I posted the CSL that did 16.6 to 200 & I will soon post another test that got 17.1. Please don't use the torque argument again as well please.

[zumbalak]

M&M

You have claimed you beat the rs6

Right here:
http://forums.audiworld.com/s4b6/msgs/274664.phtml

On that link I proved that the race was BS.

Now you are denying you claimed of beating an rs6 with mods?

How come you forgot what you have said a couple months ago.

You have lost your credibility in audiworld forums and losing it here as well.

Lies and more lies.

[M&M]

What are you talking about? That was a stock RS6 & yeah & did beat it. What exactly did I lie about. I posted 2 freakin videos of me beating it. Hell, even the owner of the RS6 confirmed it on our local forum. Want a link?

You clutching at straws man & & still don't see what I lied about? Play the ball not the man. Don't you have anything better to do than lie?

[M&M]

I see you call me a liar because an RS6 gearbox doesn't shift at redline. Well maybe that's how the gearbox works. I don't know. I was in the other car man.

How about we stick to the topic. I can assure you that you won't win this. I am uploading videos as we speak to prove you wrong. Lock & load buddy.

[QuattroFun]

This is the wrong forum and thread to discuss the M3 or CSL acceleration times, but here comes the average for the standard M3 for whatever it is worth based on SA 12/00, SA 03/03, AMS 02/01 and AMS 01/02; 0-200 avg. 17.9; min 16.8 and max 18.8. CSL did 17.3 in AMS 14/03 and 16.7 in SA so this average is 17.0.

But things vary both ways dont they: in Sweden, a professional race driver for Teknikens Värld got 18.6 for CSL and 20.2 for M3. EVO tested CSL at 17.6 0-120 implying some 18.5 for 0-200. Autobild got 19.3 for the M3.

This gives a grand sample total average of 18.5 for the M3 and 17.8 for the CSL - with professional drivers and ideal conditions meaning closed tracks although with varying if dry weather.

This is great, benchmarking done and out of the way, M3 sure is fast and the CSL is even faster, my daddy is stronger than your daddy, and I am sure we can dig up even more results: now, what do we do with all this info on BMW and what if any is the relevance for this thread?:bow: :applause: :0:

[M&M]

Like I said we need a greater sample of RS4 tests. So far both have been done in cool weather & good conditions & they got low 17's. I expect a few high 17's & maybe low 18's when tested in hotter weather. So the average will be mid to high 17's.

It will be slightly faster than the out of production E46 M3. But not significantly faster. Also the RS4 with Sports + suspension & P Zero Corsa's did Hockenheim in 1:15.8 while the M3 on stock rubber did 1:16.3. Now we all know how many seconds the Corsa's make around Hockenheim.

Now let me ask you this. Would you be proud if the RS4 is marginally quicker than the M3? I would think that isn't something to shout from the rooftops. Like Benman said, there may be more to the RS4 that straight line & track times, but I am disappointed. It doesn't seem to be much faster than the B5 RS4 considering the rubber it runs on.

[zumbalak]

So What?

Why do you care so much? You claim to drive m3. You don't even want to buy the rs4, or any audi, you will not even consider buying any audi in 100000 zillion years.

Why do you care so much about the rs4 or any other car for that matter?

[buyalemon]

I am so puke: of you M&M ...are u dumb ...didn't I wrote that the E46 hade good tourque??? ..end of discussion!

Q-fun ...I've read those mags aswell ...exact the figs I've seen M3:s deliver!

zumblak: Let's ignore this M&M chap ..he's just a big bluff driving his girlfreinds 318 compact!!

[M&M]

I've owned 2 Audi's before, including 1 S-car. But why do we keep discussing me? I'm flattered guys, but I'm married. Let's rather stick to the topic.

[zumbalak]

I am not talking about before, I am talking about now and the future! Do you understand English?

Why do you care so much about a car that you will not buy or even consider buying in a gazillion years?

Let us who consider about another Audi think about Audi. We don't need your troll, we don't need your opinion. You are not needed. Go to your m3 forums (where they don't care about you much there anyways) but discuss your car there, not in Audi or MB forums.

[M&M]

Well, I need a 4-door car so I was hoping the RS4 would be fast. I'm on the list for the M5 which I should get sometime next year. I was hoping an RS4 would run it close for 75% of the price. It may still be viable depending on the price. But down in Africa we have 100deg heat, ZERO snow & very little rain. Does that help you now?

You seem to be hell bent on discrediting me. Well that isn't going to help your cause. That isn't going to reverse the test results. You sound like a sore loser. When people resort to playing the man instead of the ball, you know they've lost.

[QuattroFun]

There is always something out there which is faster than you or me are: either as driver or stock or tuned car. Fact of life.

The Corsa effect on HH on RS4 B5 was only 0.7s and 8s on Ring - but so what even if it would have been 2s and 20s? Benchmarking? Certainly, but the most relevant for us is progress within. To say that the M3 and even more so the 911 CS or CSL does well on the track is a objective statement and hurdle but it has not much to do with RS4 apart from benchmarking.

No matter what the brand, for those of us actually buy and drive the cars these theoretical tests are nice info and much like our favourite soccer team we of course want them to do well and - in this case - surprise postively. Now, we got what Audi promised objectively but not what we dreamed of. But at the end of the day it does not matter in the greater picture either way if the car performs convincingly or unconvincingly in its intended role - thrills on public roads in real conditions with typical drivers.

How many CLS 55 AMG owners of the total buyers will regularly track their car? Does it matter if a RS4 or M3 driver disapproves the track qualities of these chaps' mercs and does it make a CLS a bad car? Most certainly not.

As we get more results, the average 0-200 for RS4 may or may not change. So what? We have the picture now and there is no surprise here and the level is satisfactory to say the least.

So in 0-200 if RS4 turns out in the end to be 1.3s faster or 0.1s slower than the M3 - or any Mitsu EVO, Impreza, AMG or M5, who cares? Not those who are real buyers. Moreover, outside Germany on public roads there are speed limits and they are not at 200. Those who do the shouting on either side of a ridiculous fence yourself included speak for themselves - not their brand nor other drivers. Many loyalists on either side drive 1.8Ts or 320s anyway so a shouting contest is useless really.

Those who wish to continue to discuss the M3 should move elsewhere. Erik, are you listening?

[M&M]

Great speech Quattro. Brought a tear to my eye. Basically what you're saying is it doesn't matter how fast the RS4 is. If you get your butt kicked in a race, you just lift your nose knowing deep down that you paid for the superior car.

[zumbalak]

Originally posted by M&M
Well, I need a 4-door car so I was hoping the RS4 would be fast. I'm on the list for the M5 which I should get sometime next year. I was hoping an RS4 would run it close for 75% of the price. It may still be viable depending on the price. But down in Africa we have 100deg heat, ZERO snow & very little rain. Does that help you now?

You seem to be hell bent on discrediting me. Well that isn't going to help your cause. That isn't going to reverse the test results. You sound like a sore loser. When people resort to playing the man instead of the ball, you know they've lost.

So as you have proved in your post YOU DO NOT CONSIDER ANY AUDI AT ALL!
So why do you care about the rs4 or any other Audi and discuss it????


And if there is a loser here that is only you. I am not the one going out to other forums and trolling and being hated by hundreds of people. The big L is you that you are getting people's hate.

If I want a fast car, I will go buy a z06 next month, and guess what IT WILL BLOW THE DOORS OF ANY BMW THAT IS OUT THERE!

So you loser, which one will be the winner? The z06 or the m3 or the m5?

I swear I really think you are a mentally challenged retard.

[zumbalak]

Originally posted by M&M
Great speech Quattro. Brought a tear to my eye. Basically what you're saying is it doesn't matter how fast the RS4 is. If you get your butt kicked in a race, you just lift your nose knowing deep down that you paid for the superior car.


Exactly true.... That is what you will be doing when the z06 wipes its tires and mulches the asphalt to the windshield of the m3 or the m5, so fast that it is not even funny....

You are such a joke m&m, a big joke....

[M&M]

Zumbo, I would quit if I were you. You don't seem to have the intellectual capacity to argue logically. You see by saying the Z06 will kill the M3, you are inferring that it will also slaughter an S4 & an RS4. So no matter what you say to discredit the M3's performance, it applies to your beloved car as well.

You see there are lots of cars faster than an M3. An S4 (& apparently even an RS4) are not one of them.

I'm afraid you simple do not have the ammunition to win this battle son. And now you're making me turn nasty.

[zumbalak]

Hey Troll....

I am so happy that I am not a sore loser like you who at your age is wasting his time on the internet at this late nigh time.

Are you getting pissy little kiddo? Are you getting angry that my future z06 will wipe the asphalt and shove it to the windshield of your m3 or your waiting list to come m5? Are you soooo getting nasty because of that, your cars are nothing man.

They suck big time, because my z06 that I will most likely be getting next month will make you eat some asphalt and then you can shove it to your where ever.... Your high revving POS cars or future cars will be like dust when the z06 hunts them down, and you will feel like crap everytime you get beaten by my future z06...

Ahhhh the joy of eliminating a trolling so called m3 owner...

You really are a big fat joke, nothing more!

[M&M]

Ok let's analyse your behaviour. Keep going off topic & discrediting me.

Then you get personal & call me names. Good one, you on the right track.

Then you gonna get a Z06 & kick my ass. Mmmm, maybe I'll save up for 50 years & get a McLaren F1 & kick your ass. Hey wait, why not just get a superbike. Even better, I'll get a Megabusa or Lotus 7 for half the price of a Z06 & kick your butt. What is this crap man? Look at the top of your screen & check the topic.

Anyway, Im out. As much as I'd like to play supertrumps & compare dream cars, I don't think it's worth it arguing with an idiot.

[zumbalak]

Good nite Sore L!

Keep dreaming about the day you can afford the McLaren. BTW Megabusa or Lotus 7 are not street legal, and I dare you to do 190+ mph in a super bike, should be very comfortable in the z06.

BTW Z06 is only 67K and very affordable... Ah the joy of destroying your m3 or your future m5.
Hahahahahaha.

[CarbonFibre]

Typical, as soon as he starts to feel like he's losing his ground in the argument then it's time to leave.

What people are saying is that they don't care about pure numbers whether it be around a track or in a straight line. You seem so focused on pure numbers, that it made me think of the Z06 as well.

I'm disappointed by the performance of the new RS4 also, and it's got nothing to do with how it compares to a BMW. I think the fact that the S4 has a V8 screwed the RS4 over because marketing probably didn't want an engine in the RS4 with less cylinders than the regular S4. They couldn't fit the turbocharged V8 in, so they had to go naturally aspirated. I'd have rather seen a turbocharged version of the VW/Audi 3.2 or 3.6 V6 like in the Passat in the RS4 than this V8.

[zumbalak]

So true. It just shows he is only a troll and nothing more.
All he talks about the performance numbers, he just doesn't get that people who prefer s4 do for reasons that m3 does not satisfy. But he is not intelligent enough to get it, maybe only a 10 year old posing as an adult who knows.

That is why he gets so pissed and angry when I talked about z06. It is same price range, even cheaper than m5, and wayyyy faster than any BMW that is out there, and guess what, it will humiliate any m3 or m5 in the drag strip and the circuit tracks, no matter where it is for less money, and same luxory appointments. Well of course at that time his defense will be oh BMW is better quality etc etc..... But he always talks about performance nothing else....

People buy cars for their own reasons, especially the same price range cars, a guy who bought a s4 could have bought m3 easily, same as m5 or rs6, or m3csl or rs4... It doesn't matter, money is not the issue, it is a matter of choice. I drive an s4, not m3 because s4 suited my needs much better than m3, if I can get an allocation within a month or so I may make an instantenous decision and get a new 500hp m5, or get a 500hp z06 and be on a higher league than the m5, or any other bmw.... But it all depends on the wants, needs and what satisfies us. I also drive a BMW so I do love both manufacturers.

A troll and a big loser like him will never understand that, and when a z06 blows off his current or future bmw in the street or the track all he will have is the big L posted on his forehead and shame that he has to live for the rest of his days for being such and idiotic troll. In my eyes he is a big joke idiot who is wasting the times of people who buy Audi/MB instead of BMW.

[M&M]

What exactly am I losing? If I wanted a Z06 or whatever, I'll buy it. What are talking about. If your car is slow, then you bring up another car that's faster as you can't fight your own battles. What's that al about? Since when did this become a Z06 discussion? Z06 will kick 6 kinds of crap out of the Rs4 as well. So now you are getting Chev to finf Audi's battles.

But I understand how you feel. It must be intensely frusrating being on the losing side with no ammo. All the magazines are against you. The price is against you. Your favourite car can'tbeat 5-year old competitors that are out of production & cheaper. You can't say or do anything to change it. Your word is falling apart. Then you have to resort to loser tactics like "the magazine was rigged" or "at least I'll kick your ass in the rain".

C'mon dude, let it go. Can you imagine how a neutral that reads this thread will laugh his ass of at you getting Chevy to battle for Audi.

[audi713]

If you like the rs4 buy it.....if its not fast enough buy something else

[buyalemon]

:harass: ...hahaha ... "BMW, the car that cares" ...haha ..great pic!

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by M&M
But I understand how you feel. It must be intensely frusrating being on the losing side with no ammo. All the magazines are against you. The price is against you. Your favourite car can'tbeat 5-year old competitors that are out of production & cheaper. You can't say or do anything to change it.
I love how you're stereotyping everyone just because they're on an Audi forum. I'm a big fan of Audi, but there's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy. I'll be the first to admit when I'm disappointed or when something is wrong with an Audi or any other car. "Being on the losing side"? Is that a joke? Remind me how I lost out here.
When people say troll, it seems they're right. You seem to get extreme enjoyment out of saying anything negative about an Audi. The Z06 point was to show that people here bought their cars for reasons other than lap times and drag racing.


Originally posted by M&M
C'mon dude, let it go. Can you imagine how a neutral that reads this thread will laugh his ass of at you getting Chevy to battle for Audi.
Any "neutral" that reads this can tell you're just asking for trouble. Getting Chevy to battle for Audi, what are you even talking about?

[zumbalak]

Hey Big LOSER M&M. HAHAHA
Man even that makes me laugh.....
You are like a little boy in girl's clothes touching his nipples and inviting the older man to have access to your goods.

Anyways, back to your pathetic existence.

YOU ARE SO PATHETIC BECAUSE YOU SAY YOU CAN BUY THE Z06.

YOU CAN NOT! AND YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO....

That is why you are a big loser boy. Like the spitted tobacco filled with greenish saliva laying on the dusty road.

Z06 IS NOT SOLD IN SOUTH AFRICA! HOW WILL YOU BUY ONE???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh my goodness, until now no one as pathetic and as idiot as you made me laugh. Remember I wrote above that you are just a big fat JOKE! Yes you are a big fat JOKE. A pathetic loser, a joke that everybody laughs at.

And all in all.
My future Z06 will beat the hell out of your lowly crap high revving POS m3. And it will be ugly, soooooo ugly, that you will live the rest of your life in shame and misery, even more miserable than you are living right now. Yes the z06 will spread asphalt to your front windshileds of your POS m3 or your future to have m5, it doesn't matter, and the z06 will do destroy your POS BMWs in the street and in the track, doesn't matter where they are at. My future Z06 will be passing your junk and POS Bmws even without trying and will show how crappy the m3 and m5 actually are.
I will be puke: on you when the z06 crushes your high priced POS quality, KABOOOM engined junk.

OH MAN. It will be a great day when you start living more in misery and shame.

M&M I feel extremely pity on you, because you are the biggest loser of the forums, a pathetic joke.

[zumbalak]

BTW M&M

DIRK DIGGLER is looking for you, he said he had the best explosion in you the other day. He was asking about you on the Audiworld forums.

[Vorsprung]

Damn this is getting nasty here...

Zumbalak, you're starting to sound pretty despertate with the way you talking now. No need for all the insults bud... And please take the Z06 talk elsewhere... You starting to sound like the BMW hater here as opposed to M&M sounding like the Audi hater. Some of his points are invalid, but not all.

In M&M's defence his not a huge liar as you've tried to make him out to be. I've personally seen his M3, and while his M3 is not bone-stock standard, he does have one...

M&M has also lost to many RS6's and i've heard that at times he has also managed to win some. BUT keep in mind its not a standard M3 we're talking about, and here in South Africa we have 2 factors that seem to affect Audi's more than BM's or Mercs (our poor quality fuel (93/95 Octane) and the heat... Its been noticed how these 2 factors seem to affect Audis more than BM's or Mercs here... But ask M&M what happens when a well run RS6 with proper quality fuel comes into play...

Having said all that M&M is not quite the liar you're trying to make him out to be.
Yes sometimes i think he is too focused purely on the numbers. I think his also jumped up too soon after just one test on the RS4, because i believe the RS4 will be quicker than the M3 in the numbers. And besides that i think its a much better car overall.

Not lets stop bitching at each other and talk cars!! :rs4addict

[zumbalak]

Vorsprung....

If in this forum we can talk about a car other than Audi, then I am talking about the Z06 and I will not take it elsewhere.

I don't care if mm candy kid has m3 or not, I don't care more or less, good for him, he should have m3 because he claims to have one, if he doesn't have one then he is a big BS.

He is a big troll, and a joke. A pathetic troll who goes to audi and mb forums and tries to show the bmw is so fast so good.

Well guess what.

His bmw is worth nothing, and will be a big fat joke like him, when my future z06 beats him so hard that it will be soooo ugly.
z06 will puke: asphalt on any bmw that our sore loser pathetic troll big joke mm boy can afford in his lifetime.

So the topic is how bad mm will be beaten by my future z06.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
It is fun to see sore losers who spend all their time trolling all over the internet rather than having quality time with their kids or families.

A joke will always be a joke, and mm joke gets funnier everyday.

[Erik]

I am sorry that I had to close this thread.

I think you know why and who.

Please behave next time.

:vgrumpy: