RS6 Lemon?

[jim kelly]

Haven't posted for some time - been licking my RS6 wounds!
Anyone beat this?
RS6 Avant Australian delivered June '04.
Car mainly driven around Sydney Australia + one trip around Tasmania, never off bitumen.
* At 250km Driver's side interior door handle entire assembly detaches.
* At 350km Front brake squeal loudly evident continued 'til now no respite. Subsequently brakes lasted 16,000km then AUDI dealer replaced front rotors and pads with factory parts (AUD3,300 bill) - no change - still howls like banshee during low speed stops. Told this is 'normal'.
* After first rain in Sydney (500km) front passenger floor fills, yep fills!, with water which takes out security module in floor and saturates carpets and floor based car electrics. Five months later (!) and after multiple complete stripping out of dash, interior, floors, etc. finally leak found in faulty original silicone gasket around front screen allowing water entry via aircond. inlet filter housing.
* During such repeated disassembly solar panel roof fails.
* Intermittent severe groaning from powersteering system - fluid colour and levels fine. Told this is 'normal'
* 15,000km engine oil leaking. After trip to (an alternative) dealer leaking worse.
* 15,000km Pirelli russos replaced with PS2s (correct size, pressure, and on original 19" mags) which now touch on the inside guards on full lock.
* 16,500km radio suddenly developed strong interference all modes and frequencies. Repeated dissassembly of dash appears to have damaged cables. Told needs now to be stripped out and all aerial cables replaced.
They've had the thing for a total of close to 3 months on and off in a life of only 15 months.
I posted on the early part of this history and some AUDI diehards got upset with me because of my snide smirk at German manufacturing capability.
I know the marque has current laudits for quality of assembly BUT so far my experience is that BMW and Mercedes must be crook if this is the standard they have to compete with!
Does every owner have this experience and you all keep it quiet?
Or does Ol' Jim maybe have a lemon on his hands at AUD220,000?

[gjg]

Jim, sorry to hear this - and to answer your question, no, I do not have (even remotely) such problems. That is with 2 Avants, one 2003 and one 2004 manufacturing dates.

Had a problem on the older one with the DRC diverter valve, horn and the in-cabin humidity (not a fish pond in foot well ....). Second (+) so far no problem at all at 35k km.

What it apears to me most of it is incompetent stealer - quick warranty "fix" IMO done to charge for work but not spending enough time and attention to actualy correct it.

:vgrumpy:

[jim kelly]

Hmmm! Yep you might say dealer - in fact AUDI OZ says so.
BUT
There's only a handful of dealers in Sydney and 2 of 'em ( plus AUDI OZ own workshop) have manged the 'efforts' so far.
I'm fast running out of them!
In fact I'm about to take legal action against AUDI OZ for "non merchantable product" which is possible in this country.
May I suggest that since RS6 was at the end of the model run, when one would suppose the 'glitches' have been addressed by then, much of the dramas are as the result of poor design and assembly.
Oil from incorrectly assembled cooler, sump, and filter gaskets?
Water entry through badly made (and not checked) screen gasket?
Those majors aren't dealer things?
AND
Oh yes now you remind me the interior foggs up in humid weather - can't see out the windows - I didn't mention that because it's sufficiently common (apparently) that the factory has a mod which solves some of that problem!
It goes on (and on)
It's very very sad because the car goes like a bullet - unfortunately I don't have it often enough to enjoy that part tho'.

[Erik]

Sorry to hear about your problems :eye:

You're not alone.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/30082005/80/german-court-rules-favour-fat-man-merc.html

[Aronis]

Perhaps the windshield had been replaced before delivery, damaged in shipping or such, and as a result it was not reinstalled properly!?!?!

If so, and they did not notify the buyer, then there is legal presidence to get a lot of cash, just like a BMW 5 series owner who found out after the sale that his 5 series had been 'repaired' and sold as new. That guy 1. Kept his car (loved it) 2. got a HUGE award from court - from fines estimated per car repaired and sold as new from BMW....

Jim you clearly have the patience of a SAINT to have put up with that ordeal.

Mike

[Benman]

Originally posted by jim kelly
Haven't posted for some time - been licking my RS6 wounds!
Anyone beat this?....

Does every owner have this experience and you all keep it quiet?
Or does Ol' Jim maybe have a lemon on his hands at AUD220,000?
Jim, that plain SUCKS.

I most CERTAINLY do NOT have anywhere even CLOSE, even remotely close to those kinds of issues. I can't even imagine how fustrated you must be!:w:

There is NO excuse for ANY car to have that many issues (not even a Kia Rio!!!) let alone a RS 6! That is just ridiculous. As gjg says, stealer may be part of it, but then as you mention Audi OZ has been directly involved so may not be it. It may seem that you truely do have a lemon on your hands and in that case I am truely sorry to hear that.

Others have had issues with their Beasts (Jax: big ones, Bauer: bad turbo, and others: On Star lights and door trim) but the only one I can think of who has endured your amount of "issues" is Hy Octane (Paul) of this forum. He also, from nearly day one has suffered one problem after another. Each and EVERY time the dealer "fixes" the problem, it either 1: comes right back, or 2: a whole new one pops up!. It is really a shame because I have met Paul and his family on several occasions at Audi events and such and he and his family are very good people. Now if he was an A$$ Hole, I would say, "Good, couldn't have happen to a better candidate", but the problem is you couldn't find a nicer idividual, so in that case, I just feel plain guilty for having such a trouble free experience with my Beast when his has been such a nightmare.

Sounds like you are on the same boat as he is (maybe the Titanic?). I'm sorry to hear Jim, as this is NOT the way owning a RS 6 should be. It most positively has not been the case with me.

Sorry mate. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[BBGT2]

Jim,
Definately a Lemon Vehicle!
I dont know Australias lemon law policy but I would certainly stuff that certain Audi RS6 down their throats and demand another one. Sounds like you amongst the other unfortunate souls just got a bad apple and as my good friend Benman stated NO car should have this many problems, not even a used Gio Metro, let alone a flagship model like the almighty RS cars.
I havent experienced any serious problems with my first RS6 and I put 9k miles on, hardly any mileage at all and this second one I just got had 2300 miles when I got her, so we shall see.
Good luck and dont stop yelling until you get it resolved.

Bajo:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Finally, someone tops my car's dismal record!:hihi:

I've detaled my woes here several times. In sum I had three issues resulting in about seven or eight weeks of downtime, plus the recurring OnStar red light and some minor things. And a few things I still put up with, e.g. steering related groan and interior condensation (both sporadic).

The good news is, all except the last two ended about six months and 12K miles ago. Car runs great and I'm glad I kept it because I did shop & compare, and guess what? The RS6 is still the only high powered mid sized AWD sedan costing under $100K -- and may remain so for a while.

Still, if another issue causes long term downtime, I will reevaluate continued ownership. If I'd had as much trouble as you, I might have sold or lemoned the car by now.

Don't get too rattled by Audiphiles. Some may seem loyal beyond logic, but others of us take a look at the whole market before choosing an Audi. I for one am cognizant of JD Power reports showing longer term quality on the rise among US brands, with Japanese brands still on top and European brands, as a group, now third. Audi is near the middle, with Mercedes lower and BMW higher.

Reliability is important to me, but it's not necessarily paramount. Otherwise I might have bought a new Acura RL after my test drive. In the end I decided I would miss the rush that the RS6 provides but the Acura does not. The new Chrysler 300 SRT-8 comes close in power off the line and at city speeds, but offers no AWD. Ditto for Caddy's CTS V Series.

I must be addicted to speed because I still feel that way even though petrol prices have doubled since I got the car! :MTM:

PS - My sympathy goes out to you. Keep us posted.

[jim kelly]

For Mike Aronis.
No screen replaced.
Explanation is that once screen is set in body there's an added overlay gasket which seals the gap between bottom of screen and large filtered air inlet below screen on LH front below screen.
It was that gasket - maybe it's 2mm thick - which had a large grain of grit polymerised into the silicone rubber and this held the gasket far enough away from the screen such that water running down screen runs over the edge of the screen then down through the aircond. inlet housing into the cabin then down the firewall and hey presto! big damage. My view is that having that air inlet butted up against the lower screen edge and sealed with a passive gasket (rather than liquid seal which then polymerises) is asking for trouble. A design 'glitch'?
For the rest of you guys thanks for your commiserations:
Prior to the RS6 I had a succession of Subaru WRX STi cars . Notice the common thread? Yep two marques are both AWD and like a slingshot performance.
BUT being old and silly (and obviously with more money than sense) after owning 76 cars in 40 years of driving, many of which I built up into high performance rally cars then onsold quite quickly to fuel the fad for such gear in sixties and seventies here - I decided to lavish myself with a truly super car fettish object.
OOPs! may live to regret it since none of the Subarus ever had a single warranty issue though driven much harder than the RS6 and often off-road in amateur rallies. Ah well that'll teach me humility.
(Although it's hard to be humble when you ain't that flash to start with!!!)

[jim kelly]

Hey Erik!
I just went to the site you flagged about the Merc guy's lease.
How the hell did you know I was overweight Erik?
"It's psychic these RS6.com guys must be" - YODA

[JAXRS6]

Very interesting note to the doctor, Jim -- especially since a stone just created a sizeable chip right in the middle of my windshield/screen!:doh:

The nick is deep but not wide; not sure if it can be "patched." :confused:

[Wang]

Or somethings happened causing a chain reaction of events on your car. I have over 24K miles and suffered a small oil leak throuh a crush washer feeding one of the turbos. My RS6 is rock solid. Maybe my driving style has something to do with my luck, I am still on my original set of tires.

[gjg]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Very interesting note to the doctor, Jim -- especially since a stone just created a sizeable chip right in the middle of my windshield/screen!

damn, had a same event yesterday ..... in my case the nick is deep and wide wide :doh:

[aussie rs6]

Jim,

sorry to hear about your problems. I would be extremely annoyed and dissappointed as well. ( I am being polite)

Audi must fix it up to your satisfaction even if a total rebuild of the electrics or refund you the purchase price plus out of pocket expenses.

On your tyre problem,I had the same problem with the front tyres scraping on the uprights holding brakes etc on full lock with michelin PS2's on the standard 19" rim.
It transpires on this rs6 and maybe it sounds like all of them that the standard factory issued 19"continentals are ok- clearance must be very fine, but the extra width of the raised "kerb rash protector" rubber strip on the sidewall of the michelin ps2 is enough to scrape. I took off the michelins rather than end up with grooved and polished alloy uprights, run the michelins on the back and reran continentals back on the front.

At A$850/tyre, an expensive experiment, but such is life.

A pity cannot run the michelin PS2's on the front as the "kerb rash " protectors do work as have been tested by the wife.

Only problems I have had is the rear window blind motor go out at 20,000 kms,then the tv receiver module (radio and cd ok) and then the alternator fail at 27,000kms. When the alternator failed all the warning lights came up as per the manual!

I experience minor fogging on the front windscreen and have to turn on the front demister which cures it quickly. I will ask dealer about the "fix".

Only questions I have not had resolved are;

1. it is apparently "normal" that when the aircon is turned on the extra fan starts up and sounds like a boeing 767 warming up.

The only consolation I can draw from this is that one day when I can't hear the fan, I will know I have a fan problem.

2. There is a slight engine/tranny vibration at 2000rpm and 4000 rpm when at idle in neutral and when driving that you can only feel through the front passengers seat when empty. you can also see a slight vibration of the headrest.
I do not know what is causing this harmonic vibration and diagnostics show all is well in the engine and tranny. I have had the engine mounts changed but vibration still there. Not threatening, but I wonder what it means.

Car runs well ( no mods -need that 6 year warranty) and has been timed at 13.3secs on the quarter on a tuning day. Very good economy at steady state 110 km cruising.- 9 litres/100km. However I support opec when the pedal goes to the metal.

I guess as I bought the car (june '03 build) from audi australia as a press demonstrator with 9,000kms on the clock in aug'04 , it was "very well run in" and any bugs would have occurred during that time, although none showing on service record printout which I have sighted prior to purchase.

I have tried an amg 55 but still prefer the rs6- a safer car for the the performance level these cars have. the amg is real death wish stuff in the wet!

I receive very good service from the only audi dealer we have here in Perth that I know of - owned by audi australia-prompt attention to problems and repairs.

I plan to keep the rs6 - the best car of this type I have driven unless jaguar bring out a better awd performer. (my other car is a modifed '69 4.2 xke roadster. Prior to rs6 owned '99 xjr s/c- a fast luxo limo)

[jim kelly]

Interesting.
Mine came from Germany fitted with Pirelli Rossos on factory 19" rims - they only touched a little bit. I thought it must be normal.
Incidentally, over this side the PS2s only cost me $700ea. fitted.
That Indian Ocean has got a lot to answer for!

[dpiggee]

Jim,
I am sorry to hear about the problems. I too, am starting to wonder if the RS6 has a lot of design flaws. These are my stories;
1) Took a trip to Tennessee and when I returned, I found that the ride quality had severely changed. My rear struts failed. Had to replace all four.

2) Weather stripping on all four doors replaced. Was told by the Service Dept. that there was a "design flaw" in the lower stripping. Also had weather stripping replaced around the hood.

3) Was washing my beast when all of a sudden as I washed the lower bumper in the front of the car, the paint peeled off. I had a 6 inch long and 3 inch wide paint chip in my hand. Bumper was replaced and re-painted.

4,5,and 6,) have also had problems with brake squeak, lamination on the door handle, and moaning with the power steering unit.

7) This Thursday I have scheduled maintenance on the telescopic steering wheel mechanism. The memory is not working properly and the column has been emitting puffs of smoke on occasion.

Yet and still, I simply love this car, and would like to keep it, but I have to wonder if Mr. Kelly has a point. Especially since I was told by the Service techs that these are either design flaws or necessary high performance gremlins.. I have already inquired about an extended warranty. Lemon, or bad design?


dpiggee

[Aronis]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Very interesting note to the doctor, Jim -- especially since a stone just created a sizeable chip right in the middle of my windshield/screen!:doh:

The nick is deep but not wide; not sure if it can be "patched." :confused:

Got me concerned for sure. I have a chip in my windshield (two now), the first was when I had the car for a week! Had it filled, and the repair has held up. The first thing the windshield guy said was "I had replacing windshields on 'those' cars" referring to the way the seal works.

Now that Jim has filled me in on what the seal situation is, I doubt that many windshield repair guys would have the needed experience to fix it correctly. Is this windshield mount method common to all A6's and other Audi's? Or just the vent possition on the RS6????

Mike

[jim kelly]

Mike, as far as I recall having briefly seen the thing disassembled the screen is first laminated/polymer welded to the hole in the body. Hypothetically that makes the screen edge itself 'watertight' - or should. Under the screen and very close to the edge of it there is a maybe 12" square hole with a rubber gasket surround into which is fitted the pleated air-cond. air inlet filter. I'm guessing that which side of the car that hole is located varies depending on LHD or RHD control. It is fitted slightly inboard compared to the screen edge. the edge of that hole is very very close to the screen edge. Because the filter is perforable (porous) and would admit water if push came to shove (as in mine) they fit a thin - looks like silicone rubber - gasket passively around the edge of the screen to fill the 'gaps' if any. Then over that is the plastic (all are black) semi-rigid screen surround trim seen in exterior view. So in cross section there's outer rigid trim then soft silicone 'clinging' gasket then screen then polymer 'weld' line then body hole. The soft silicone gasket diverts any water running down over the screen into engine bay/plemum so that it doesn't get the chance to contact the air filter.
You have to question this multi component albeit whizz bang way of keeping water out of the cabin. Trust those tricky boys and girls to come up with a thousand dollar way of addressing a 10 dollar problem!

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by Aronis
Is this windshield mount method common to all A6's ... or just the vent position on the RS6????

Mike

Great question, and I hope someone answers it before my dealer appointment next week. The dealer sends it to a windshield/screen outfit which is experienced with Audis, but I don't know if they're familiar with the RS6 or even if I'll be talking with them directly. Thus I hesitate to even drop the car off without knowing the answer to Mike's question. Poor communication by Audi has caused me big problems (huge downtime) in the past with this vehicle and I'm a bit prickly about it happening again.

Jim, or anyone?:confused: