RS6 vs. M5

[AMG EATR]

Has anyone actually raced the "old" 400hp M5 against their RS6 at different speeds. Reason being, I used to own a stock M5 and it honestly feels faster than the RS6, yet most magazines say the rs6 does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds while the m5 does about 5 flat.

Dan

[Erik]

When the Rs6 was brand new we raced an M5 vs. an RS6.
Rolling start, standing start etc. The RS6 is faster until you reach (much) higher speeds. From a stand still the M5 should not have much of a chance. I think above 160-180 km/h it would be harder.

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp?useframe=comparison1_e.asp?Car1=53%26Ca r2=3

RS6 is faster up to 200 km/h. I would guess the M5 would reach 250 km/h faster. On the other hand Audi made the RS6 to beat the benchmark at the time, the M5.

There should be a video called "Tribute to the RS6" that I made.
Does anybody have it still?

http://www.rs6.com/gfx/media/broadcast/vision/001.jpg

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3825&highlight=smoked M5: 0 RS6: 1 :hihi:

And...welcome to the gang! Please post pics!

:addict:

[freerider]

Originally posted by Erik

There should be a video called "Tribute to the RS6" that I made.
Does anybody have it still?


Upping right now...

Edit: link can be found here (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=345TU9KJ).

[maurizio]

Hi,
in Italy we can see the challenge on track! You know the Italian Superstars Championship?!
check it out!

http://www.eurosuperstars.com/mediagallery/photo/Armetta_Masini_mugello.jpg

http://www.eurosuperstars.com/

[gjg]

Originally posted by AMG EATR
Has anyone actually raced the "old" 400hp M5 against their RS6 at different speeds.

yes, few times, older M5 is slower below 200 kph, between 200-250 is pretty close, but no cigar ... :thumb:

This is with stock +. Keep in mind that most of the time is not car but the driver .... :incar:

[Aronis]

My dad has an M5, but we have not raced LOL...

Where can you race and not get arrested these days!

Mike

[SouthshoreRS6]

I have both cars, but neither is stock. RS 6 has just a cat back exhaust, but the M5 has 3.45 gears, Dinan CAI, software etc. I would give the nod to the RS 6 assuming a good launch. But its going to be a driver's race..........however add rain or snow and its no longer a driver's race. :bye2:

Bill

[Benman]

Originally posted by Erik

And...welcome to the gang! Please post pics!

:addict:
Yes, welcome!:cheers:
Always good to see another owner on board:thumb:

As others have said, RS 6 is quicker from standstill. I do know what you mean about the feel though. Although I've never owned a M5, I've driven them a couple of times and I think it's the manual tranny and the shifting that leads to the faster impression. The RS 6 is just so smooth that the speed is VERY deceptive, whereas in the M5, you KNOW you are going fast!:D

Ben:addict:

[AMG EATR]

Thanks for the videos. Yes, the rs6 is very smoot so it probably could feel slower.

Has anyone raced the new 997S. I would imagine this would be a very close race. It would be amazing if a four door sedan could outperform porsches latest coupe. I bet a MTM rs6 would take it but I wonder if a stock could.

[Benman]

Originally posted by AMG EATR
Thanks for the videos. Yes, the rs6 is very smoot so it probably could feel slower.

Has anyone raced the new 997S. I would imagine this would be a very close race. It would be amazing if a four door sedan could outperform porsches latest coupe.
No, a 997S will outperform the RS 6 in every way (that is except when it comes to hauling around the family and groceries:D ).

The RS 6 CAN hold it's own against a standard 996, but not the 997S.

Ben :addict: (MTM could though;) ).

[SpinEcho]

Car&Driver May 2004 (mph):

E39 M5

0-100 11.5s
0-150 29.2s


RS6 sedan (US spec)

0-100 10.7s
0-150 30.9s


Evo February 2003 (mph)

E39 M5

0-100 11.5s
0-140 23.8s


RS6 avant

0-100 11.6s
0-140 26.2s


No question - auto tranny and AWD mean plenty of parasitic loss at speeds where it counts!

[shimmy]

Originally posted by AMG EATR
Has anyone actually raced the "old" 400hp M5 against their RS6 at different speeds. Reason being, I used to own a stock M5 and it honestly feels faster than the RS6, yet most magazines say the rs6 does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds while the m5 does about 5 flat.

Dan

Dear AMG EATR

I am currently looking for an RS6 Avant in the UK having had an E39 M5 for 4 years and then a 740i sport for a short time (doing some seriuous freeway motoring at the moment).

Can yoiu give me a heads up on the RS6 and a comparison. I will rpobably be looking for a model around 2 years old (stock) with maybe 20-30K miles on the clock

[gjg]

Originally posted by Aronis
My dad has an M5, but we have not raced LOL...

Where can you race and not get arrested these days!

Mike

there are places .....:hahahehe:

[AMG EATR]

Shimmy,

It is hard to compare as I had the M5 to years ago and now have porsche turbo as weekend car so I really lost feeling of M5. If I rember right, RS6 feels slower because its auto and has VERY smooth acceleration and shifts while M5 is a little jerkier and more fun to shift. If this is a daily driver, RS6 is best anser. If RS6 was stick, I would say RS6 all the time but M5 is a bit more fun to drive with a manual than rs6. A chipped rs6 would murder the m5 maybe even the new one and most exotic cars on the road. YOu should really just test drive the car.

[shimmy]

Test drive booked for Tuesday with a dealer, although this car has too many miles for me to buy.

Thanks for the comparison

[Hy Octane]

Seems like it would be kinda hard to actually"Feel" the difference of .5 sec to 60...
I mean, think about how fast half a second really is.. maybe a car length at 60mph?

[exE46M3]

Originally posted by SouthshoreRS6
however add rain or snow and its no longer a driver's race. :bye2:

Maybe you're right about the snow (not that the M5 - or any other RWD car for that matter - is useless in the snow), but in the rain, it's still a driver's race.

http://members.roadfly.org/mosal01/S4vsM3Page1.jpg

http://members.roadfly.org/mosal01/S4vsM3Page2.jpg

[SpinEcho]

That's an oft-quoted article by BMW enthusiasts. And just maybe it applies to the snow as well. I am amazed at how much more enjoyable and easy to drive my wife's 330i is compared to my (gone but not forgotten) TT in the snow. The TT with its relatively heavy nose, FWD Haldex bias and laggy turbo was very difficult to drive cleanly through corners. With the 330, just turn in, flex right foot, and ride out the oversteer.

With the RS6, the front weight bias is less of an issue in snow, as power oversteer is laughably easy.

[Bauer]

put a ralley driver in the S4 and then see what happens.... I think the problem is that when they do these tests some of the drivers do not know how to take full advantage of the quattro system. The driving style/tecniques are different then with rear wheel drive and if you dont know what you are doing you will be slower around the track.

good example was a young Amercian racecar driver who was entered in the (I think it is called) champion of drivers competition in Europe where prefesional drivers from all around the world drive different types of cars to see who is the fastest . The American driver got handed his ass becasue he did not know how to drive an AWD car properly. He went back, learned and trained with an AWD car and next year came back and finished very very well. Thats why I thing magazine tests are always hard.... you don't know the skill level and experience level of the testing driver.

Just my 2 cents

[exE46M3]

Bauer,

A rally driver will get away with pretty much anything... Plus, does it really take one to benefit from Quattro? I thought the idea (or one of them at least) behind AWD was exactly the opposite!

I agree. You can't read a magazine article and immediately assume it's the "True Way". However, since someone took the time to check things out and publish their findings, I thought I'd share them with you guys. :thumb:

See, I posted that article in response to SouthshoreRS6's comments because I wanted to highlight one thing: driving dynamics. People tend to think that when things get slippery, AWD is all you need... Well, AWD certainly helps under acceleration, but a good, well balanced platform is still very desirable. Even in RWD form.


SpinEcho,

I agree with you. DSC does a good job at keeping things in check even without snows...

My daily-driver in the winter of 2001 (guess who stayed home most of the time? :D)

http://members.roadfly.org/mosal01/NY1.JPG

[SouthshoreRS6]

Thought the first post was about 0-60 times for an RS 6 vs. a E39 M5. As I do own both cars, they are close. That said, I'd much rather be in the RS 6 this winter than dealing with the M5.

[Bauer]

exE46M3,

You don't need to be a rally driver to take full advantage of quattro. My point was that these tests are a result of someone’s driving skills. Which may not be up to the task... none of us (I assume) personally know the test driver(s) in this case.

How is it that when rain starts to fall in race events where Audi quattro’s are competing that in almost every instance they easily handle the RWD competition? Show me where a well balanced RWD race car consistently beats an Audi quattro in the rain

Additionally, I think a well balanced RWD car in the hands of the right person can be driven with successes in the snow. I do think that snow tires (or MS rated) would be a must for daily driving though. But as you point out AWD does help under acceleration... but I feel that it can help with car control, overall. Most people argue that it does not help in slowing the car... and I would agree if you were talking about just the brakes. But you can also slow a car down with downshifting. This would be an advantage in an AWD car over a RWD car. Due to the fact that you would have more of a chance of the rear wheels "locking up" when downshifting then with an AWD car since the resistance is being split over 2 tires and not 4.

One of the best cars I ever owned for this was my old 1984 Audi 4000 quattro. That car was so controllable in the snow and one of the reasons it was because of the ability to slow the car down without touching the brakes at all. This was due to the gearing of the car and in part to the ability to lock up the center diff. I think the advantage is less on newer quattro systems then the older ones.


I do feel that a well balanced car is very desirable...... which is tough to get with an AWD system that has most of the engine mass in front of the wheels. Things like DRC and the new 40/60 power split do help but cannot replace
the balance of truly 50/50 weight distributed car.

One of my favorite pics

http://images12.fotki.com/v213/photos/6/673844/2493055/RS6inwet-vi.jpg?500372

[BBGT2]

One of the best cars I ever owned for this was my old 1984 Audi 4000 quattro. That car was so controllable in the snow and one of the reasons it was because of the ability to slow the car down without touching the brakes at all. This was due to the gearing of the car and in part to the ability to lock up the center diff. I think the advantage is less on newer quattro systems then the older ones.

Bauer, Isnt that the truth I had one same year same car PEARL white, man was that thing fun to drive in ths snow, it was a BLAST !!

Bajo:addict:

[Bauer]

alright, same color I had... with the cloth brown interior.... man, I have a lot of good memories from that car.... I wish I had kept that car.... it was truely amazing in bad conditions. I actually looked forward to snow and rain in that car.

I think I may hunt one down , same color combo to restore.... that is how attached I was to it.... my first quattro:thumb:

[Benman]

Originally posted by Bauer
exE46M3,

You don't need to be a rally driver to take full advantage of quattro. My point was that these tests are a result of someone’s driving skills. Which may not be up to the task... none of us (I assume) personally know the test driver(s) in this case.

good example was a young Amercian racecar driver who was entered in the (I think it is called) champion of drivers competition in Europe where prefesional drivers from all around the world drive different types of cars to see who is the fastest . The American driver got handed his ass becasue he did not know how to drive an AWD car properly. He went back, learned and trained with an AWD car and next year came back and finished very very well. Thats why I thing magazine tests are always hard.... you don't know the skill level and experience level of the testing driver.


This is a very valid point. If the magazine driver is very familiar with RWD cars and how they handle, and not so much with AWD, he WILL get a faster time with RWD, even in the rain.

And I remember the "Race of Champions" that you're speaking of. In fact, after Jimmy Johnson (Gordon didn't make it this year due to illness) got some practice, Jimmy did much better, in fact he and American team partner placed higher than the Italian team (which by the way, included none other than Mr. Schumacher himself!)! SO how're your driving style is biased does make a difference.

Ben:addict:

[exE46M3]

Originally posted by Benman
If the magazine driver is very familiar with RWD cars and how they handle, and not so much with AWD, he WILL get a faster time with RWD, even in the rain.

See, that's exactly what I wanted to highlight and I think we're all saying the same thing: in the rain, it is still a driver's race... :race: Now, will the driver familiar with AWD/driving the AWD vehicle come out on top? Maybe. Maybe not. :thumb:

[Benman]

Originally posted by exE46M3
See, that's exactly what I wanted to highlight and I think we're all saying the same thing: in the rain, it is still a driver's race... :race: Now, will the driver familiar with AWD/driving the AWD vehicle come out on top? Maybe. Maybe not. :thumb:
I agree with you.

Dispite the fact that during one of the Speed World Challenge GT (Nord's favorite race series...:hahahehe: ) races in the rain where a BMW won over the RS 6, it was really the RS 6 that LED 90% of the race. Only an error right at the end gave the BMW the win. But my point though, is that during that entire wet race, the BMW (Auberlan driving) was right behind the Audi and for the most part able to keep up, even in bad conditions.

I would however, always prefer my RS 6 to a M5 in the wet anytime. If for nothing else, peace of mind.

Ben:addict: (nothing handles like my :rs6kiss: in the wet:thumb: )