RS4 or BMW M5???????????

[RS4Man]

:rs4addict


Would like some views on the new RS4 v BMW M5.

I am in ireland and a fully loaded M5 is €155000.00 and a fully loaded RS4 is €105000.00 thats a difference of €50000.00.


Delivery will be new jan 06 reg... and saw both these cars in Geneva but i am so confused its not ture........

so some opinions would be great .......

Thanks.
:revs:

[nene]

Knowing now about the issues with the 5-series I have, I'd wait for at least a year on the M5 so BMW can work out the kinks. I'd probably do the same for the RS4 if you are considering it.

Both cars are extremely different in my opinion, except for extreme power. Handling and all other important considerations ($$ inclusive), makes it as if you are comparing oranges to apples.

However, I'm not going to hide behind being PC about it or anything. I'd go with the M5 simply because of size, given that both are sedans.
If however the RS4 came in a coupe, I'd be all over it. And 'NO', I would not go with an M6 over an RS4 coupe...a size thing...in the opposite direction.

I like sedans large, and coupes small. Everything else I can deal with, as long as they are reliable (for the most part).

[Benman]

Originally posted by nene

Both cars are extremely different in my opinion, except for extreme power.

I like sedans large, and coupes small. Everything else I can deal with, as long as they are reliable (for the most part).
nene makes several good points. It really is apples to oranges. I would swing the OTHER way and get the RS 4 (but that is because I am Audi BIASED:thumb: ). As nene mentions though, if you really want a roomier sedan, than the M5 is the better choice. However, for people in my size class (5'10" 157lbs, wife: 4'10" 88lbs) the RS 4 is plenty big. Depends on your needs.

Ben:addict (Oh,BTW, nene, like the new sig with link to car pics. Nice:0: )

[RXBG]

RS4 > M5

why? get to challenge the mighty M5 and M6s you run into on the highway in a rarer, less known car.

why? RS4 a much better track car.

why? own the M5 and M6 in the rain or snow.

why? pocket the money difference...can i tell you how to spend it?

:D

[S4Aero]

Hi everyone - long time reader - first time poster - future RS4 owner (assuming they don't charge $85K US).

I've been kicking this debate around for a while - RS4 or M5. For years, my dream car has been the M5 - until Audi introduced the new RS4. Well that and the new Bangle M5.

My requirements are simple. Fast. 4-Doors. Fast. Understated. Fast. And because I live in a snow belt - AWD. I would consider a RWD supercar and an SUV, but I would prefer a year-round vehicle. (I am considering keeping my B5 S4 as well, so the option sitll exists for the M5)

Given all this, my choice is the RS4. I believe that it will exceed everyone's expectations for performance. It posesses that aura of rarity and exclusivity that BMW is starting to lose. And, I can actually drive it in the rain or snow.

Good luck with your decision!

[Benman]

Originally posted by S4Aero
Hi everyone - long time reader - first time poster - future RS4 owner (assuming they don't charge $85K US).

For years, my dream car has been the M5 - until Audi introduced the new RS4. Well that and the new Bangle M5.

My requirements are simple. Fast. 4-Doors. Fast. Understated. Fast. And because I live in a snow belt - AWD. I would consider a RWD supercar and an SUV, but I would prefer a year-round vehicle. (I am considering keeping my B5 S4 as well, so the option sitll exists for the M5)

Given all this, my choice is the RS4. I believe that it will exceed everyone's expectations for performance. It posesses that aura of rarity and exclusivity that BMW is starting to lose. And, I can actually drive it in the rain or snow.



Welcome to the forum S4Aero:cheers:

Yes, the Bangle M5 doesn't quite do it for me either (liked the old one better). The M5 definately wins on size but if that is not a huge issue for you than you'll be fine. As you mention, what the RS 4 might lose to the M5 in all out performance, it certainly makes up in all weather usability (provided you have the right tires:D ). Course, if you already have a B5 S4 (great car) then the option for the M5 is still a good one.

I also believe the RS 4's performance will exceed everyone's expectations, it certainly DID mine!

Ben:addict:

[Toto89]

BMW M5 is much bigger(like previous RS6),thats why it is more expensive, and BMW has V10 against the Audi's V8,but RS4 is as fast as M5.The new S6 and RS6 will be better comparable with M5 because their bigger size.:rs4addict

[Toto89]

Originally posted by Benman
Welcome to the forum S4Aero:cheers:

Yes, the Bangle M5 doesn't quite do it for me either (liked the old one better). The M5 definately wins on size but if that is not a huge issue for you than you'll be fine. As you mention, what the RS 4 might lose to the M5 in all out performance, it certainly makes up in all weather usability (provided you have the right tires:D ). Course, if you already have a B5 S4 (great car) then the option for the M5 is still a good one.

I also believe the RS 4's performance will exceed everyone's expectations, it certainly DID mine!

Ben:addict:
Let's buy a new RS6:D :hahahehe:

[Benman]

Originally posted by Toto89
Let's buy a new RS6:D :hahahehe:
Depends how good the new one will be.:D :hahahehe:

Ben:addict:

[kujo]

RS please !!! :rs4kiss:

[Audihead]

Pick up a used RS6. Save a few bucks!:0: :addict:

[carlos]

I was waiting for my dad to take delivery of the new m5(arrives monday) to give my opinion but it was delay one more week ( at least it is in mexico). What i think is going to happened is that the m5 is a very complicated car ( idrive, diff. settings, susp,gears,etc) and he is not a guy who likes complicated stuff. I can tell you from what i read and was explain a month ago in germany you need to take time to adjust a lot of stuuff and in the city just stick with the automatic trany. and dont try shifting gear in trafic, it will be complicated. On the other hand (rs4) you have a classic 6 speed, 4wd, and just one button to remap , now thats easy. Dont forget the all famous idrive from bmw.
Just my opinion
cesa:idea:

[skratch]

let us know when it comes in.Tell him he could easily sell it on ebay for way more than he paid for it and order one with the 6spd manual in it.

[Toto89]

Originally posted by RXBG
RS4 > M5

why? get to challenge the mighty M5 and M6s you run into on the highway in a rarer, less known car.

why? RS4 a much better track car.

why? own the M5 and M6 in the rain or snow.

why? pocket the money difference...can i tell you how to spend it?

:D
Better track car???Hmmm... I'm a big AUDI fan,so my choice would be also an RS4 but are you sure it is better on the track?:rs4addict :addict:

[Benman]

Originally posted by Toto89
Better track car???Hmmm... I'm a big AUDI fan,so my choice would be also an RS4 but are you sure it is better on the track?:rs4addict :addict:
When developing the RS 4, quattro bipassed the M5 and went straight to the CSL for a benchmark car. The CSL was used back to back on tracks while evaluating the RS 4 set up. So yeah, I'd say it IS a better track car than the M5, believe it or not.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Speedou]

I won't believe that before I see some track tests.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Speedou
I won't believe that before I see some track tests.
Once www.track-challenge.com has info on the RS 4, I think you will see it will be quicker around the Ring than the M5. I would actually be surprised if it was slower. But then, you never know.

Ben:addict:

[tailpipe]

There can be now doubt that as a year-round car, the RS4 will completely cream the M5. It's winter/ wet weather performance is better than just about anything else out there.

But actually even on normal dry roads, wheelspin and traction are a problem for the M5. Unless you have an optimal surface, you will lose traction, the electronic gizmos will cut in or, if turned off, you will shimmy down the road from one side to the other.

In other words the RS4 puts more of its power down for more of the time than the BMW does. That means it's more usable, more predictable and with safer on the limit handling.

That doesn't mean that the M5 is a bad car, it just has a different character. My choice? Four rings to run circles around the oposition.

(By the way, if you run an M5 at 507 bhp for more than two hours without stopping, overheating and susequent critical failure are still an issue. In most circumstances, the need for regular fuel stops helps remedy the problem. I've even heard that the fuel tank may actually be slightly smaller to build-in an extra degree of safety. Also, BMW figures that most customers will only use the full power for limited periods and therefore can risk replacing the engine for the few customers that really hammer their cars - until a proper fix is implemented. So much for uncompromising Bavarian engineering.)

[Speedou]

Originally posted by Benman
Once www.track-challenge.com has info on the RS 4, I think you will see it will be quicker around the Ring than the M5. I would actually be surprised if it was slower. But then, you never know.

Ben:addict:

Yes I believe that. And that would be a great thing! It is really nice to see that Audi is trying to make really fast cars (also) for tracks! The RS4 is so much smaller car that if it is slower than M5 I think it is some way unsuccesful. But let see and hope for the best :thumb:

[skratch]

Originally posted by tailpipe
There can be now doubt that as a year-round car, the RS4 will completely cream the M5. It's winter/ wet weather performance is better than just about anything else out there.

But actually even on normal dry roads, wheelspin and traction are a problem for the M5. Unless you have an optimal surface, you will lose traction, the electronic gizmos will cut in or, if turned off, you will shimmy down the road from one side to the other.

In other words the RS4 puts more of its power down for more of the time than the BMW does. That means it's more usable, more predictable and with safer on the limit handling.

That doesn't mean that the M5 is a bad car, it just has a different character. My choice? Four rings to run circles around the oposition.

(By the way, if you run an M5 at 507 bhp for more than two hours without stopping, overheating and susequent critical failure are still an issue. In most circumstances, the need for regular fuel stops helps remedy the problem. I've even heard that the fuel tank may actually be slightly smaller to build-in an extra degree of safety. Also, BMW figures that most customers will only use the full power for limited periods and therefore can risk replacing the engine for the few customers that really hammer their cars - until a proper fix is implemented. So much for uncompromising Bavarian engineering.)

Your right about the audi in all weather conditions but please show us where you heard about the engine not being able to run 507hp for more than 2 hours.

BMW has said this engine can handle 600hp and was tested to over 10k rpm around the ring.

[maurizio]

Hi, in Italy we'll see this kind of competition soon in the Italian Superstars Championship! Next month a RS4 will enter in the challenge with ex F1 Gianni Morbidelli!! stay tuned on www.eurosuperstars.com!

http://www.eurosuperstars.com/mediagallery/photo/08_vallelunga2005=ascani.jpg

[QuattroFun]

Faced the same main alternatives - chose RS4 but it was by no means a default choice. The M5 is in many ways a fantastic car. Money aside (not much of a gap in my case), for me it was in the end down to the following factors:

1) Need of space vs. extra weight, outer size & less nimbleness, 2) IDrive/MMI vs. good old fashioned non-menu or -NAVI controls, 3) SMG/Auto vs. manual, 4) V8 vs. V10 (240kg vs. 209kg, torque delivery, fuel and different sounds), 5) Looks - inside and out and - of course - 6) Quattro vs. RWD and the weather conditions you face. 7) M5 kills the RS4 in the dry sprint from 160-250km/h - to me, irrelevant as the RS4 should be quite fast enough but many do value this thing a lot. 8) Weight distribution...well, probably more theory & marketing than practise as 911 shows.

Thought hard about 911 4 Coupe (a probably much better driver's car than the RS4), but really wanted a V8 & preferred 4 doors. If the new M3 sedan would have been around and especially with x-drive, it would have been even harder for me to make a choice. Might have deserted to the dark side...

Whatever you go for, a really nice choice and good luck. Or: go for both if you can...!:thumb:

[RS4Man]

Thank you all for your opinons.... just a tough choice.... and now M5 has night vision and i love gadgets....

:rs4addict

Jesus so confused...... wish i could afford both but will have to play the Lotto...

[tailpipe]

Originally posted by skratch
Your right about the audi in all weather conditions but please show us where you heard about the engine not being able to run 507hp for more than 2 hours.

BMW has said this engine can handle 600hp and was tested to over 10k rpm around the ring.

Audi AG recently poached a BMW engine guy who told them about the difficulties BMW are having with this engine. Everyone concerned with RS4 development and marketing in Ingolstadt is talking about this. To be honest with you, it is a typical problem you get with highly stressed performance engines. There can be no doubt that it will be fixed. Like the new 5-Series failure and representation at NCAP, the engine fiasco shows that BMW's launch schedule meant they ended-up launching a car that had not been fully developed. And not for the first time. Last year all M3s were recalled to have the big-end parts changed. Just wait at least 2 years after introduction before you buy an M5. That's my advice.

[M&M]

Tailpipe, are you going to follow yr own advice & not get an RS4 until it's final 2 years? 'Cos the RS4 has a 12.5:1 compression engine revving to over 8000rpm with 100hp/litre. It's a 1st of it's kind for Audi who don't have much experience in this regard.

Also the S4 which was basically the S6 engine, had a few failure when it was 1st released. Check Audiworld for the owners posts of blown S4 engines. So my question is does your advice apply only to prospective BMW owner's?

[Benman]

Originally posted by M&M
So my question is does your advice apply only to prospective BMW owner's?
Yes, because BMWs SUCK and Audis RULE!!!!!!!:bye2: LOL!:D

No, this is good advice for ALL high strung engines, kind of why I don't have a thing for Ferraris (run GREAT as long as you spend $5,000.00 every other month in MAINTENANCE!:bigeyes: ).

I say, make mine TURBO!!!:revs: :burnout:

Ben:addict:

[skratch]

I agree that most first year cars have plenty of gremilins that they work out a few years later.

I wonder since by the time the m5 hits the states if they fixed a few bugs.

its last delay was for the tranny being not built right and pushed the car back like 3 more months

so maybe BMW is not rushing this one to us till its ready so they dont repeat what happened with the m3's

[tailpipe]

M&M you make a very good point and, yes, you're right, i have decided to delay getting an RS4.

The only problem for me is the new S6 and B8 A4 arriving so soon afterwards. The B8 chassis rocks and it's going to be such a quantum leap that a V8 S4 may be better as well as cheaper than the RS4. Then, of course, there's the R9 just around the corner and the A5 coupe with the RS4's engine in it too.

Spoilt for choice, really.

Of course the RS4 will be special. I just cant help feeling that it's arriving way too late in the model cycle - but haven't we heard that before.

[Fab]

In a way I share this view as the RS4 seems to be delayed and delayed. Also considering that a DSG box should be implemented into the RS4 as well (I let you tailpipe confirm or deny this) I am temptated to wait before to get the RS4 (for which I have a fixed ticket since March 04).

This leads us as you said very close to new "revolutions" as the B8 chassis and so on. My point here would be to say : ok by thinking this way I will never buy any models because a new one or a important change will happen in the next 6-12 months.

We may also be concerned about a potential RS4 + coming out in 1-2 years time (knowing that Audi have been testing the V8 with 450hp).

On the other hand lets be honest what a great feeling to be one of the first driver of a new beast as the RS models.

My conclusion would be to say that of course every new car from top manufacturers is or has a great improvement versus previous model or competition, but this is the way the car industry is going ahead (as PCs, cell phones, ....)

So lets buy what we presently like without to much wondering about what better will be release in the near future.

Of course I would be the first one to switch cars every year, but my budget doesn't allow it at least for the moment...

Fab :bye:

[Erik]

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=56849

[Benman]

Originally posted by Erik
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=56849
Well, I gotta say I'm impressed with how many on that board said they'd take the RS 4 for all around use (nearly half). Pretty reasonable chaps.:thumb: :D

Ben:addict:

[Erik]

Originally posted by Benman
Well, I gotta say I'm impressed with how many on that board said they'd take the RS 4 for all around use (nearly half).

I'm impressed - surprised! - as well.