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View Full Version : Something to think about while you're waiting for the RS4 to arrive stateside



tailpipe
May 3rd, 2005, 20:32
Everyone is saying that the new BMW 3 and 5 Series are extremely competent cars, but while certainly better than their predecessors, they do not move on the game for luxury automobiles in their respective categories.

Audi in the meantime, is pulling out the stops to cement is technology credentials. I am hearing extremely interesting stories about the next generation chassis for the B8 A4. Essentially this platform will form the basis for both the next A4 and A6 models and will be exclusive to Audi, i.e. Volkswagens will not use it. That means both models are likely to grow in size. Improving rear-passenger space for both cars has to be a priority, if Lexus is anything to go by.

More important than leg room is driving dynamics. All Audis will be designed with Quattro in mind, but will have the engine mounted behind the front axle. As reported elsewhere, this will vastly improve weight balance and thus handling characteristics, especially for hard-core performance Quattro models. The really impressive feature in the engineering is likely to be the transmission. Both Quattro and non-Quattro versions will have drive channelled to the front wheels via a highly sophisticated mechanism that has an advanced forward mounted transmission shaft mounted underneath and to one side of the engine. It does not add weight over and above the current system.

Prototypes are already being tested and by all accounts the performance is electrifying: all of the advantages of a rear-wheel drive car and very few of the disadvantages of a front wheel drive car. Early reports indicate that the handling is just about as perfectly neutral as you can get. In Quattro models, you will get very gentle oversteer breakaway when the limits are exceeded and this is very easily recoverable = real fun to drive and fantastic 4 wheel drifts are entirely possible. With Front wheel drive versions, it will be all but impossible to unseat the car and you get the opposite: very gentle understeer easily corrected by backing off: grandma won't get freaked out when the driveway is covered in sheet ice.

The other big news is the styling. Now that the new face of Audi has debuted on all models across the range and everyone has got used to the idea of a squarer shield grille, the challenge is to shrink it so that it looks more integrated when applied across all models. A smaller size makes the front end look more rounded and thus much more futuristic and stylish. Imagine more graceful lines from the A6 stretching back in a long V from the grille to the flanks. It really moves things on. Haven't seen it myself yet, but we can expect to start seeing CGIs towards the end of the year, if not sooner.

I expect Audi to make announcement about the new chassis by Franfurt in September. The new B8 arrives in 2007, just as final deliveries of the RS4 are completed.

Interestingly, the B8 A4 could be the last petrol engined Audi A4. :0: :mech: :race:

freerider
May 3rd, 2005, 21:08
Originally posted by tailpipe
...

Interestingly, the B8 A4 could be the last petrol engined Audi A4. :0: :mech: :race:

Very interesting. But I think it's best to keep our expactations not too high(this way you don't get dissapointed).
And about the B8 A4 being the last petrol engined model. Do you mean that it's going to be replaced with fuel cells(hydrogen,...)?

Greetz Johan

RS4Ever
May 3rd, 2005, 22:44
nice write-up .

thanks

Erik
May 4th, 2005, 10:59
Originally posted by tailpipe
Interestingly, the B8 A4 could be the last petrol engined Audi A4.

Unless it's released in 2050 I seriously doubt that. :looking:

RXBG
May 4th, 2005, 15:40
tailpipe. don't you think that 2007 is a little early? unless you mean the CY2007 in september or so as a 2008 model.

is there any new info on ETA of the le mans quattro? if quattro gmbh will only produce one model at a time then that car is almost 4 years away since rs4 hasn't begun and the rs6 awaits.

and if audi is planning on making a and s versions of the lemans quattro and wait until it is almost at product end cycle before offering an rs version they are making a big mistake.

Benman
May 4th, 2005, 16:36
Originally posted by Erik
Unless it's released in 2050 I seriously doubt that. :looking:
I wouldn't think so either, but then you never know for sure. Petrol is too common in many countries to go away that soon. By your estimates the B9 would be out by 2015 at the latest, and regular "gas" will be still going strong (at least here in the States). Maybe in hybrid form, but going strong nontheless. Now a HYBRID electric, petrol Audi would be interesting. Fuel to the back, electric to the front, like the Honda Dualnote concept. That would be moving the game forward!:hahahehe:

Ben:addict:

tailpipe
May 4th, 2005, 18:11
I believe that the B8 A4 will be launched in the Autumn of 2007 as a 2008 model. If this is earlier than you thought, you're right. The B7 is a big improvement over the B6 but it is not a significant enough step forward to scare BMW in terms of undermining the new 3-Series. Consequently, Audi needs a 3-Series fighter as soon as possible.

The A9/ S9/ RS9, which is the production version of the Le Mans is pretty close top receiving final approval for production. When Audi's first quarter 2005 sales figures were released, Martin Winterkorn said that an announcement about the RS9 and the new A4/ A6 future platform architecture would be made within a month. I don't think it has been decided when the flagship V-10 version would be launched.

Petrol supplies, as per Eric's point, will not run out until 2050. Unfortunately, the cost of mining the remaining oil deposits is likely to become uneconomical versus the funding of hydrogen fuel technology by 2015. Yes, that's 10 years away. So, it is highly likely that the B9 A4 will be hydrogen powered.

Toyota, GM and Mercedes-Benz are well advanced in developing solutions for hydrogen powered cars. At present, there are two barriers to introduction. One, is battery technology and the cost of using large size lithium ion batteries in a car. Two, is the cost of replacing the petrol pump infrastructure we presently have in place.

All of the major car companies now seem to agree that the fuel cell is the best way to harness hydrogen power. This option burns hydrogen and oxygen to generate electricity (the only waste emission is water) and the electricity is stored in a battery or transmitted to electrical motors directly. So how will this impact car design?

Fuel cell cars won't need transmissions in the traditional sense. Instead of having a single engine driving either the front or rear wheels, the small size and weight of electrical motors means that you could easily have four electrical motors - one per wheel. In other words, the internal combustion engine may be dying but Quattro is immortal!

Current fuel cell car designs that have been exhibited feature a sandwich system with the battery, generator, electrical motors and transmission systems all mounted on a flat chassis plate and covered with a second upper chassis plate. This results in an extremely even weight distribution and low centre of gravity. In short, hydrogen cars powered by electric motors will handle very well dynamically. They also offer gretater flexibility in designing vehicle interiors.

Design studies incorporating these features have been developed by all major manufacturers. We will start seeing prototypes just as soon as the next generation of (lithium ion) battery comes along: 18 months away, if our analysis is correct.

Every car manufacturer and energy company knows that the hydrogen day is dawning, they are all gearing up to spend the money needed, but they won't do it until they have to, i.e. when oil suddenly looks too expensive. Like the dot.com gold rush expect an explosion of fuel cell cars. We'll probably make the transition globally within 2 to 3 years. no, i didn't miss any zeros out. It'll be that fast. i fully expect Toyota to move first.

One other factor driving the early adoption of this technology is environmental pressure: some ecologists are saying that the effect of Carbon-fuel based emissions may soon be irreversible.

Benman
May 4th, 2005, 18:47
Originally posted by tailpipe


Every car manufacturer and energy company knows that the hydrogen day is dawning, they are all gearing up to spend the money needed, but they won't do it until they have to, i.e. when oil suddenly looks too expensive. Like the dot.com gold rush expect an explosion of fuel cell cars. We'll probably make the transition globally within 2 to 3 years. no, i didn't miss any zeros out. It'll be that fast. i fully expect Toyota to move first.

One other factor driving the early adoption of this technology is environmental pressure: some ecologists are saying that the effect of Carbon-fuel based emissions may soon be irreversible.
A lot of your research sounds good, but I'd have to disagree with the quoted statements.

That oil supplies are "scarce" and are running out is a SCAM. "They" have been saying that since the Great Depression. Just do some research and you see for yourself. They only do that so they can CHARGE more $$$ (as you say "i.e. when oil suddenly looks too expensive.). As soon as the oil prices DO get out of control and the manufactures look elswhere for power the oil prices will start to come back down (funny how that works).

I really have a hard time believing that petrol (gas) will be "obsolete" in ten years time. Why do you think the US is at "war" in the Middle East? To fight "terrorism"?:eye: HA! That's a joke. It's so that the US can get control of the "last" oil supplies. It's going to take much more than 10 years time to make oil a thing of the past (sorry to go political and stuff).

Ben:addict: