Low speed turn 'groan'

[nene]

For those of you that seem to witness an low speed turn groan coming from the front of your car, usually the driver's side it seems, you should contact your Audi Service Dept. and make sure that you explain the issue, and that another RS6 owner had this issue fixed by replacing the brake master cylinder.

I have not had this issue personally, but another RS6 owner posted on another forum, so I figured it would be helpful to all of us here as well.

[DaveyKid]

It's not always as complicated as the master brake cylinder but sometimes as simple as topping off the fluid, bleeding the system properly and also just making certain the hose(s) running from the master cylinder are secured properly. By secured, I mean make certain they are zip tied or however else you want to do it, to anything more stationary. The reason for this is any action/movement in the hoses themselves when under pressure and heated up can cause a frothing of the fluid if any air is in the system. This frothing from the air is what causes the groaning.

Mine did the same thing, system was bled, and the problem went away. Sometimes by replacing the master cylinder, they accomplish the same thing when bleeding the system, not realizing it wasn't the part at all.

Just my 2 cents!

[nene]

My friend complained that it would happen when car was cold, as he was pulling out of driveway or parking space. When car is hot, it does not seem to occur as often. That seemed interesting to me as well, as I figured it would probably happen regardless, but what do I know.

[Hy Octane]

Not sure I understand this one.. How can bleeding the braking system affect the steering system? The braking system uses brake fluid and the steering system uses hydraulic fluid. two separate systems. So, if I have my brake master cylinder replaced, how does that connect to and affect the hydraulics of the power steering?

[DaveyKid]

I wasn't paying attention!

[gregoryindiana]

Originally posted by nene
My friend complained that it would happen when car was cold, as he was pulling out of driveway or parking space. When car is hot, it does not seem to occur as often. That seemed interesting to me as well, as I figured it would probably happen regardless, but what do I know.

For me it's a cold start phenomenon. Usually as I turn backing out of my garage in the driveway, actually. Very annoying.

[Bauer]

Same problem here...only happens once in awhile.

[sturs6]

Originally posted by gregoryindiana
For me it's a cold start phenomenon. Usually as I turn backing out of my garage in the driveway, actually. Very annoying.

I had the same issue on mine and it also occurred when going forwards at low speeds.

[incognito]

i believe it also happens.... say you are stopped and you're about to make a turn, i sometimes have my wheel turned before i start rolling into the turn and thats when i usually hear it

[gregoryindiana]

Originally posted by incognito
i sometimes have my wheel turned before i start rolling into the turn and thats when i usually hear it

I have to say that I was always told that you shouldn't turn the wheel without moving either forward or reverse. The only time I could imagine having to do that would be parallel parking in an extremely tight spot.

And truthfully, who among us would put our Beast in that sort of a risky position? I would pay more to put her in a car park, rather than see her grille popped by a truck or SUV backing into her.

In Europe I could see where the RS6 owner might have limited options. But in the US, there is ALWAYS another place you can park her. Even in Manhattan, it's just whether you will pay what it costs.

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by gregoryindiana
I was always told that you shouldn't turn the wheel without moving either forward or reverse. The only time I could imagine having to do that would be parallel parking in an extremely tight spot.

This isn't about straining the power steering because the wheels are turned to their limit. It's about a sound I and (obviously) many others hear when we start out & combine a cold engine with moderate acceleration and a moderate turn at the same time. Personally I have owned 20 vehicles and this has never happened before. It is not about abusing the car.

What is it, then? Good question. Part of the problem is duplicating the sound in the presence of a tech; if they don't hear it, they can't/won't fix it. Since it happens only occasionally, and many techs resist taking time to go for a ride, getting it to happen in the presence of a tech is difficult. The fact that it happens less often when warm compounds the challenge because, obviously, our cars are warm when we bring them in.

I did manage to duplicate it once, for about a second, in the presence of a service writer riding with me. He told the tech, but the tech could not duplicate the sound, so it wasn't fixed.

This thread may help; I plan to show it to my dealer before next visit. And if everyone with the groaning insists that it exists & puts pressure on techs to go for a ride when cold, maybe it'll act up in the presence of a tech at some point & problem will be solved. Let's hope so anyway!

I'm at 36K miles and about a month ago, I started getting a much louder groan, even when warm, at slower speeds than before. Service writer said it may be power steering, which had been problematical on the A6. Fluid is fine, but replacing power steering may be a challenge if the new louder noise continues only once a week or so. So...I may call my Owner Advocate on Monday, and thanks to everyone here!:bow:

[360M]

Long time since I've visited here.

I had the same problem a while back. It turned out that the moron technician forgot to remove the wire clothes hanger from the strut after performing brake work on my car. (Techs do this to hang the caliper up.) The wire was rubbing against the CV boot and eventually tore it up, spewing grease all over the inside wheel area.

Probably not your case but you never know. Good luck. :revs:

[eph94]

It has finally happened to me! The problem is that I am 400 miles from home. Do you guys think it will be an issue getting home? The groan sound is immediately apparent when starting the engine and gets much worse when turning left or right. It started as I was backing into a space.

I'm at Mont Tremblant and I'm probably going to miss my second track day if the problem doesn't miraculously cure itself overnight!! :( More important than losing track time, I want to be able to take my family home.

Thanks,
Joe

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by JJV-MA
It has finally happened to me! The problem is that I am 400 miles from home. Do you guys think it will be an issue getting home? The groan sound is immediately apparent when starting the engine and gets much worse when turning left or right. It started as I was backing into a space.

I'm at Mont Tremblant and I'm probably going to miss my second track day if the problem doesn't miraculously cure itself overnight!! :( More important than losing track time, I want to be able to take my family home.

Thanks,
Joe

I've heard two groans:

1. Not loud, happens often, usually when accelerating from a stop -- which I believe is the topic of this thread.

2. Very loud, usually heard when parking; rare.

Yours sounds like the second. I was bothered when I heard it; dealer said it's probably the power steering but don't worry about it unless it persists, in which case bring it in.

So -- if I was in your shoes, and the loud noise was not happening often, I'd just drive home. If it WAS happening a lot, I'd start by calling to find out where the nearest dealers are ... for a Monday morning visit before putting on hundreds or thousands of miles.

Re Noise No 1: Mine has been sporadic, not loud, and going on (and off) for about 40K miles now -- so I'm not worried about it causing damage or making the car quit.

[eph94]

My problems seems like a combination of the two. As soon as I fire up the car, the groaning becomes immediately apparent. If I press the throttle, it gets louder as the RPMs grow, but then the engine sound seems to drain it out around 4000RPM. If I turn the wheel left or right, it makes the loudest groaning sound.

It's so weird. Everything was working fine until I cut the wheel to back into a space. Then the groaning started and has not stopped since.

The nearest Audi dealer is 125km from here in Montreal. My lack of French speaking/reading ability also intimidates me. It's hard enough getting lost when all the signs are in English!! Oh boy...

[JAXRS6]

Have you checked the power steering fluid? Mine has been OK, but your symptoms sound worse.

I'm not sure what I would do in your situation. I suppose that if I was self-employed or had an understanding boss, or was retired (which I am), I might delay my return until calling my owner advocate at AOA on Monday. But if my boss was a jerk or my job depended on being back in the office on Monday, I'd probably make the drive and hope for the best.

You might consider calling Audi's 24 Hour Roadside Assistance if you decide to stay in Montreal. According to the "USA Warranty 2003 Models" booklet that came with my RS6, they will respond "anywhere in the United States and Canada," and services include "service interruption benefits throughout the US and Canada" (page 13), which usually means they will pick up a limited hotel tab and possibly meals. If you had planned to leave Sunday but need to stay til Monday for the service, Sunday night's stay should be covered (within limits of course). But you may not get that benefit if you wait til Monday to call IMO. The number in the booklet is (800) 411-9988.

If your power steering is toast, you should be covered by warranty. And as long as the steering works, you should be OK. Failed steering is a serious problem, but groans are not -- unless they indicate steering failure is imminent, and from here I just can't say whether or not that is the case.

Bottom line: A tough call. Good luck, and please keep us posted!:deal:

[eph94]

Thanks, JAX! I will definitely report back my findings. At the very least, I need to drive back to the track to pick-up all my stuff in the paddock. Some Audi club folks are there as well and maybe I can their input too. Bummed out about missing track time, but that is of secondary importance right now. Thanks again!

[eph94]

Well, the car is at the dealer now and they determined that they need to replace the power steering rack. This requires the engine to be pulled from the car, and Audi estimates 25 service hours to get the job done. :doh:

[Bauer]

sorry to hear it..... I think the mineral power steering fluid that are in these cars cannot handle the heat created under the hood. Probably over heated it with the track time which caused it to some of its lubercating qualities. Really sucks... these cars should be able to handle it, since it is supposed to be Audi's highest performace model.

I have to take mine in for it to be changed.... good luck.


Sounds like time for a dedicated track car:hahahehe: :incar:

[eph94]

Originally posted by Bauer
Sounds like time for a dedicated track car:hahahehe: :incar:

I totally agree, but I'm at the analysis/paralysis stage in my track car decision-making process.

I've ridden in a bone-stock Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII on the track and I was very impressed with its capabilities. I know AWD isn't ideal for the track, but it's my little security blanket. At the other end of the spectrum, I could indulge in a 997 C4 or C4S, but then I run into the same cost of maintenance issues as with the RS6.

Or I could go your route, Bauer, and get a tricked out B5 S4 that is set-up for the track. The key, though, is finding one that hasn't been truly abused.

Ideally, I want to stay with Audi or try Porsche. I have a good relationship with my local VAG/Porsche garage and would like to keep using them.

I wonder if ACNA Nationals at Mont-Tremblant will be last track days for my beloved RS6. :rs6kiss:

Decisions, decisions....

Joe

[Bauer]

Joe,

You can find very reasonably priced B5 S4's with good modifications. I have seen cars with 40k to 55k miles and about 10k to 20k in upgrades for between 30k and 40k. I can tell you my S4 has become VERY fun and fast on the track.

At my last event there was a guy with a fantastic 993tt (bigger turbos, ECU, exhaust and PSS9's) who after the second time out was no longer able to hold me off. Not to say I am that great of a driver or he was that bad.... his lines were smooth and there were some turns when he would perform better then I and others I would do better then he. I had more then him and down the straights I would have to let up or I would have driven up his tailpipe. He then started letting me pass on a regular basis.

Now, true the car is not cheap to maintain... but neither is a 993, 996 or 997 for that matter..... I think you can't go wrong with the Porsche product.... but for me I have an Audi "problem":hahahehe:

good luck

Ben

P.S If you need help or info please let me know.... I would be very happy to help in anyway....also, if you are ever in the SF Bay and what a test drive let me know:incar: :D

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by Bauer
I think the mineral power steering fluid that are in these cars cannot handle the heat created under the hood.

Good guess -- but then why do I sometimes the moan 2-3 minutes after leaving my garage on my first drive for the day?

[Aronis]

I only hear it when the car is cold.

After driving to work, the car is warm, I do manuvering in a parking lot and have yet to hear the noise.

I hear it pretty reliably when I am pulling out of the end of my driveway, turning left, moving very slow.

It is DEFINITELY a noise I can live with if it means having some mechanic REMOVE THE GD ENGINE to fix. Far too many things can go wrong after they REMOVE the engine...too many wires to mess up, not to mention mechanical connections, etc.

Mike