RS6 Chip debate

[choppo]

Afternoon all,
Hopefully some in the USA have chipped there RS6 and was wanting to get a little info if possible.
I see where GIAC flash's the ECU and OC T and MTM solder a chip in and all 3 require a tip chip.
I personaly used the MTM chip in a 2001.5 S4 and it ignored some EGT codes and that was not good.
I had real good luck though with the AMS/ABT box but all this knowledge is from a S4 not a RS6.
If and when I chip
It would be with a Xtra ECU ( Hopefully so not to destroy original ) for my car if and was leaning towards OC T stratsmophere products they have chipped a few in the area,
So I was told by them and a a few service reps @ dealerships but no info other than here say.
I would just like to learn a bit about it and some of you guys experiances if you would share them.
Ams/ABT, MTM , OC T and GIAC are probably close but there is always a diffirence and your info is best and hopefully there are a few here willing to share
Also bear in mind I would only chip to 510 hp and not looking to track car or run 100 octane just 93 octane and live with 510hp ( Stage 1 ) and other than that no other mods to engine.
:dance:

[audirs6sport]

Your best bet is to challenge all the tuners to give you a dyno result to match the power you desire out of this beast. Good number of tuners actually don't even make power that they claim, or if things go bad, makes less power than from the beginning! I've only heard negative feedbacks about GIAC software on RS6. You can get their software without a tip chip, it is not mandatory.

[BBGT2]

Choppo,
I have had an MTM chip in my 94 UrS4 and had various problems, ie cel, hesitation from the engine as did my brother with his 95.5 UrS6 (had them chipped at the same time) which shocked me because MTM is a very reputable tuner in Germany. Hoppen Motorsports who is their U.S. importer/installer is someone I will never deal with again. On my RS 6 I went with a GIAC chip heard alot of good things about them and was pleased with their follow up after the fact. Yes I had the tip chip and it felt better when shifting, after the chip I installed the Milltek exhaust cause it sounded damn good. Just my .03 cents (inflation) . I hope whoever has my beast is enjoying her as much as I did until the GT2 came along. I am waiting for the new S8 if the doofases at Audi ever figure out if and when they are building it. Until then I have my 01 S8 and the GT2 and my bro just bought a CL65.
Cheers to all the guys I havent talked to in awhile I still check in from time to time. Sorry for going "off topic" I hope Igor does not boot me outta here.

Bajo :addict:

[Benman]

Originally posted by Bajors6
On my RS 6 I went with a GIAC chip

Just my .03 cents (inflation) .

Bajo :addict:
:D
Bajo:cheers:
How the heck are ya? Haven't heard from you in quite some time! Hope all is well. Glad to hear that your GIAC chip worked for you. Like audirs6sport, I've heard some negative comments on the GIAC chip, but no firsthand experience.

Ben:addict:

[TaTaPiRaTa]

I have MTM since 6m. I'm Very pleased. :addict: :addict: :addict:

[BBGT2]

Benman, been pretty good can't complain, how are you and I bet you have been enjoying your monster heavily. Have you done anything to it yet? As far as chip's go Tatapirata I have no doubts in MTM I suspected Hoppen here in Florida and just didn't like their attitude when I first called with my problems but we eventually sold the cars. It was just a nuisance is all.
Benman nice to hear from you again and you take care of yourself and that beauty of yours.

Bajo:addict:

[NWRS6]

I've had the GIAC software and tip chip installed for the past 8,000 miles. Not a single hiccup or any weird behaviour to date.

Stock RS6 loses to 996TT and runs about even with an SL55.

Chipped, my RS6 keeps up within 3 car lengths of a 996TT and beats the SL55 everytime off the line. SL55 never catches up.

520hp/530 ft/lb torque is a healthy increase over stock 450hp/415 ft/lb.

BTW, I always fill her up with 94 octane

[Benman]

Originally posted by Bajors6
Benman, been pretty good can't complain, how are you and I bet you have been enjoying your monster heavily. Have you done anything to it yet?

Bajo:addict:
Bajo:cheers:

All is well with no complaints. Missed a couple of Audi events but other than that, I've been really enjoying the Beast. All stock with the exception of Hotchkis sway bars. You have to let us all know how that SWEET GT2 is!!!

:bigeyes: :bigeyes:

Back to topic, why is it that a lot of people seem to have issues with Hoppen Motorsports? Is it because they're so big now that they don't care about they're clients?:confused: Sorry you had issues with them as well. The only experience I've ever had with them is BEFORE I bought my RS 6 and emailed them oh... about 10 stinking times asking what the price and availability was for a chip. Never got a reply except "not available at this time." Great customer service.:rolleyes:

Ben:addict:

[Benman]

Originally posted by NWRS6
I've had the GIAC software and tip chip installed for the past 8,000 miles. Not a single hiccup or any weird behaviour to date.


520hp/530 ft/lb torque is a healthy increase over stock 450hp/415 ft/lb.

BTW, I always fill her up with 94 octane
Good to hear. As I said earlier, I've had no first hand experience with them but have heard some negative comments. We need to hear from more owners that have some positive input to add:0:

And we don't have 94 readily available here in the States.

Ben:addict:

[NWRS6]

Hi:

Those with problems probably had the early versions of the GIAC software. I think from the time it first came out, there have been more than 3 or 4 updates.

Just before they installed my software, it had an update about a week earlier.

So I supposedly have the latest and best version. Perhaps that's why I have not had any issues.

I have heard that MTM is the best but as they only have a solder on chip, you can kiss your warranty bye bye.

GIAC's flashloading is a great benefit in terms of maintaining your warranty.

[audirs6sport]

Originally posted by NWRS6
I've had the GIAC software and tip chip installed for the past 8,000 miles. Not a single hiccup or any weird behaviour to date.

Stock RS6 loses to 996TT and runs about even with an SL55.

Chipped, my RS6 keeps up within 3 car lengths of a 996TT and beats the SL55 everytime off the line. SL55 never catches up.

520hp/530 ft/lb torque is a healthy increase over stock 450hp/415 ft/lb.

BTW, I always fill her up with 94 octane


Not to hate or anything, but only if it did make that much power. Garret's sidekick, Jeff Moss ran an rs6 with nothing but GIAC chip, and in the upper rpm, only lost power on the DynoJet. Just letting everyone know what I saw with my own eyes.

[choppo]

I can't understand how GIAC can be flashed on the ECU and MTM/APR and OCT all say they have to put new chips in them.

How can GIAC find the room to do it where none of the others can ?

Or why is OCT/MTM/APR swapping chips ?

Just does not seem to add up is all



:deal:

[NWRS6]

When the RS6 software first came out, the ECU needed to be socketed with a new chip. It was only in October 2004 that the RS6 could be flashed.

I'd like to say that my tests were repeated several times. And all the cars compared to (996 turbo and SL55) are/were also my own vehicles.

I'm not just saying the chipped RS6 is faster than an SL55 or runs about even with a 996TT to make myself feel better about the upgrade.

My comparisons are not seat of the pants. All runs were done stock/chipped on the same day and time. The flashloader allows me to revert back to stock within 15 seconds.

If the software is not making more power, how can I keep up with my 996TT and beat my SL55 when I could not do so with the RS6 set at stock?

[audirs6sport]

Originally posted by NWRS6
When the RS6 software first came out, the ECU needed to be socketed with a new chip. It was only in October 2004 that the RS6 could be flashed.

I'd like to say that my tests were repeated several times. And all the cars compared to (996 turbo and SL55) are/were also my own vehicles.

I'm not just saying the chipped RS6 is faster than an SL55 or runs about even with a 996TT to make myself feel better about the upgrade.

My comparisons are not seat of the pants. All runs were done stock/chipped on the same day and time. The flashloader allows me to revert back to stock within 15 seconds.

If the software is not making more power, how can I keep up with my 996TT and beat my SL55 when I could not do so with the RS6 set at stock?


Don't know. But that's a good question. How can you be driving all three of your cars at once and run against them by yourself? Jeff Moss has stated on the day of the dyno, which was about a month ago, that they need to go back on to their drawing board. They've also stated that their software for the ECM was incomplete, which means that they have been selling unfinished product as their real deal "Cartooning" software to the previous rs6 owners that have been complaining about their GIAC product (I believe those folks are still around somewhere on this forum). Dyno test doesn't lie, and that rs6 owner was pretty pissed off about the fact he spent 3grand for nothing as well as the dyno testing costs... Just stating what happend. No stories made up.

[audirs6sport]

Originally posted by choppo
I can't understand how GIAC can be flashed on the ECU and MTM/APR and OCT all say they have to put new chips in them.

How can GIAC find the room to do it where none of the others can ?

Or why is OCT/MTM/APR swapping chips ?

Just does not seem to add up is all



:deal:

It's not your ECM that's being flashed, it's the EPROM chip inside the ECM unit that is being flashed. It's the same idea as your EPROM chip that's soldiered on your motherboard, when you flash update the bios. Other tuners like APR and REVO technik are using this process to tune their clients toys. Only difference is that GIAC is known as Garbage In A Chip, and they have stated many BS since the past about their tuning, and they still currently do. I still remember when I had my A6 chipped with GIAC software. Their statement was that the advertised numbers were just conservative numbers, rather, in reality it really makes about 100hp at the crank. When it was put to a test on the maha dyno, it did make more power but it was about 20 hp... Either I was just out of luck for whatever reason, or their software just wasn't making the power that they claimed.

[s42ski]

It would be outstanding for folks to disuss the chip "experience". With three or four different chips ( at least ) - it is difficult to choose. I am somewhat intrigued by the APR system, mostly by the idea of changing the program via the cruise control - any owners have experience with this set up?

[gjg]

Originally posted by NWRS6

When the RS6 software first came out, the ECU needed to be socketed with a new chip. It was only in October 2004 that the RS6 could be flashed.


so all 2003 models in US have to have the chip soldered? Or the original EPROM is replaced with flashable PROM?

Not sure if I understand this flash/solder issue when the breakpoint is October 2004 ....

:vhmmm:

[choppo]

I was told by OC Tuning/APR and MTM that the chip had to be replaced in the ECU from the stock one to a larger one they use.

Unless a Clone/Spare ECU could be obtained for chipping purposes only.

Which I hear has been done "cloning" of ECU's.

[NWRS6]

It's pretty obvious that I cannot drive more than 1 car at a time. Your statement is not too smart.....any intelligent person would assume that a friend of mine would be driving one of the other cars.

I mean, do I really have to post/describe the person who was driving the other one of my cars? Gee whiz.Boy. Who would have thought I could drive more than 1 car at once. Genius.

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by s42ski
I am somewhat intrigued by the APR system, mostly by the idea of changing the program via the cruise control - any owners have experience with this set up?

I had APR chips on my two prior Audis -- '98 A4 and '00 S4. Both worked great, the cruise control switching never failed & was very handy for dealer visits & valets. Now, tho, I suspect more dealers are aware -- and I got "busted" anyway because dealer asked if I had a chip & I chose not to lie.

[audirs6sport]

Originally posted by NWRS6
It's pretty obvious that I cannot drive more than 1 car at a time. Your statement is not too smart.....any intelligent person would assume that a friend of mine would be driving one of the other cars.

I mean, do I really have to post/describe the person who was driving the other one of my cars? Gee whiz.Boy. Who would have thought I could drive more than 1 car at once. Genius.

Thanks for the compliment. The real obvious factor would be the fact that you would not have wasted your money on a garbage software like GIAC if you knew what you were doing. GIAC is known as Garbage In A Chip period. This fact has already been proven many times in real world, not on random forums. If you're happy with your garbage, good for you God bless.

[GmbHouse]

Remember if it can be flashed by a tuner it can be reflashed by a dealer. Many dealers do just that to reset to factory settings during service. The dealers can't do this to a "soldered" chip. Unless the tuner supplies you with a VAG interface containing his software so you can "reinstall" his program after a dealer reflashes you (and some do), it's just an expensive temporary upgrade.

[Bauer]

Originally posted by audirs6sport
Thanks for the compliment. The real obvious factor would be the fact that you would not have wasted your money on a garbage software like GIAC if you knew what you were doing. GIAC is known as Garbage In A Chip period. This fact has already been proven many times in real world, not on random forums. If you're happy with your garbage, good for you God bless.

Garbage??? Interesting....Jeff talked with me about that particular RS6 and said it was the only one out of several he has done with Garretts software that he was having some problems with.


Also, Garrett's software is probably some of the most widely used for the B5 S4 and 1.8t...and getting some of the best power numbers.

Jeff did work on an S4 recently that dyno'd 415 whp on 91 octane and did 11.8 @ 121 mph, again on 91 octane...that would seem to me, to be pretty impressive.

Now would I use them to chip my RS6....not sure, Garretts experience with the RS6 is not as great as other European tuners.

If this RS6 owner was so unhappy Garratt give a 30 money back guarantee...why didn't he just take it?

No tuner is perfect.

[Dark Knight]

I have 27,000 miles on my RS6 and had the O.CT chip installed around 11,000 miles. I've had no major problems, it idles perfectly, runs very smooth on the highway and when gunning it. I do think the ESP does something weird under hard takeoffs and I don't know if the additional HP is making it do that weirdness. The car, under hard takeoffs, feels as though it has very slight power pulses in the drivetrain. When I turn off the ESP it doesn't seem to happen, however, I haven't done it enough times to say whether it is directly linked to the ESP being on/off.

Over time, with doing the hard takeoffs, I twisted the front driveshaft. I did a high speed run a couple of months ago and at 191mph the driveshaft sheared clean in two (needless to say that was an "interesting" time). I called Stratmosphere to talk to them about how I should approach this as a warranty issue with AOA and for the first time Stratmosphere didn't call me back -- and they still, to this day, have not. Hmm, a little dissapointing. There to sell you stuff and deal with the small questions but when something serious happened no where to be seen.

I really believe, for those of us actually pushing our RS6's, that if people inspected even their stock RS6 that their driveshaft may well be twisted but unless it's put under incredible high-speed stress they're not going to experience a failure. My theory.

Personally, I wouldn't chip an RS6 again, I merely wanted the speed governor off of there because it pisses me off they restrict such a car.

Bottom line, I think O.CT is a good chip. I like they don't make the engine override any of the factory safety settings for the sake of getting good dyno numbers. They seem to do a lot of real world and complex dyno testing as well as endurance testing.

Good luck with whomever you go with, just don't go to crazy with escalating the torque!

[NWRS6]

Originally posted by audirs6sport
Thanks for the compliment. The real obvious factor would be the fact that you would not have wasted your money on a garbage software like GIAC if you knew what you were doing. GIAC is known as Garbage In A Chip period. This fact has already been proven many times in real world, not on random forums. If you're happy with your garbage, good for you God bless.

You are pretty smart yet again. Which is more obvious?

1. Testing more than 1 car against one another at the same time requires more than 1 driver?

or

2. GIAC software for RS6 is GARBAGE?

Do you really think it is option 2? You lost out big time buddy. Why don't you make it OBVIOUS for everyone that GIAC is GARBAGE and qualify your statement.

You make such far fetched statements - how do you expect people to take you seriously.

All my statements about GIAC are from my experience. All I said was that it worked well for my car. Do you see me accusing other board members of lying or calling other tuner's products garbage?

Gee whiz......grow up.

[choppo]

Hey guy's
its a chip debate on variouys chips
not a contest of who's right or wrong or how many cars you can drive @ once.
both of you grow up and contribute instead of arguing.
:vgrumpy:

[Bauer]

Originally posted by choppo
Hey guy's
its a chip debate on variouys chips
not a contest of who's right or wrong or how many cars you can drive @ once.
both of you grow up and contribute instead of arguing.
:vgrumpy:

Choppo-

This is a debate....however in the States there tends to be a lot of politics with regards to tuners and who is "best"...It seems that there is a lot bantering...and most of it just name calling between some of the parties. I have seen this first hand....some of the tuners tend to talk trash to their customers about their competitiors. This can have an effect on the customers perception of other tuners.

To me let the power numbers, 1/4 mile times, driveability and reliability speak for themelves.

I think OC.T has done some good work with the RS6 and MTM is the king kong of tuners for Audi, IMO. As far as REVO....audirs6sport is the only RS6 owner I know who has their product in a car...not to say their are not more. I know of about a 1/2 a dozen with GIAC's and only one or two with APR.

Since there is a limited # of RS6's in the states it seems there is hardly a big majority.....I think if you threw in the rest of the world....MTM would probably have the most RS6's done...but that is really a guess.

Cheers,

[gjg]

this says it all:


Originally posted by Dark Knight


I called Stratmosphere to talk to them about how I should approach this as a warranty issue with AOA and for the first time Stratmosphere didn't call me back -- and they still, to this day, have not. Hmm, a little dissapointing puke:

at the end of the day, given the performance claims from any and everybody, the servise counts - I've chipped 4 S cars with Hoppen between 1992 and 1998 and no matter what at the end of the day Mike or Joe always called back and resolved any problem I've had over the years (and 100's of thousands of miles) - that included talking to my dealer about f....d up drive shaft with Lehman setup and dealer's bs about "too much power".

I have also chipped 2 A6 2.7tt in Europe directly with MTM - customer service was pleasant and quick and no problem experienced to date. They do return phone
calls within 24 hrs regardless what the issue is.

IMHO no matter what the claim most of the US tuners make, they will not have, even remotely, the experience with RS6 as MTM (and perhaps some other Euro tuners) do, so, when I will chip, the choice is obvious. :idea:

You can read the numbers and you should test your chip setup - so far the numbers (or lack of) for O.CT in US did not impress me at all. All what was obvious on the board here was the development of the chip by a tuner on customer's cars.

And the usual disclaimer - I do not have any interest in ANY tuner or any affiliate, just a user.

:bye:

[audirs6sport]

Originally posted by Bauer
Garbage??? Interesting....Jeff talked with me about that particular RS6 and said it was the only one out of several he has done with Garretts software that he was having some problems with.


Also, Garrett's software is probably some of the most widely used for the B5 S4 and 1.8t...and getting some of the best power numbers.

Jeff did work on an S4 recently that dyno'd 415 whp on 91 octane and did 11.8 @ 121 mph, again on 91 octane...that would seem to me, to be pretty impressive.

Now would I use them to chip my RS6....not sure, Garretts experience with the RS6 is not as great as other European tuners.

If this RS6 owner was so unhappy Garratt give a 30 money back guarantee...why didn't he just take it?

No tuner is perfect.

Are you talking about Arie's car? That car has way more than just a GIAC software.
He did get his money back, after arguing with the guy for hours...
Just ended up wasting his time and cost of dyno runs, but that's it...

[audirs6sport]

Originally posted by NWRS6
You are pretty smart yet again. Which is more obvious?

1. Testing more than 1 car against one another at the same time requires more than 1 driver?

or

2. GIAC software for RS6 is GARBAGE?

Do you really think it is option 2? You lost out big time buddy. Why don't you make it OBVIOUS for everyone that GIAC is GARBAGE and qualify your statement.

You make such far fetched statements - how do you expect people to take you seriously.

All my statements about GIAC are from my experience. All I said was that it worked well for my car. Do you see me accusing other board members of lying or calling other tuner's products garbage?

Gee whiz......grow up.

And all I've said was that from what I've seen with my own eyes, is that GIAC did not make the power they claim, in which as far as I am concerned = garbage. If you want proof, you can ask harmann automotive directly: Harman Motive Inc. 340 Van Ness Ave Torrance, CA Like I said, if you are happy with your product, great. I'm glad it's working out for you.

[Bauer]

Originally posted by audirs6sport
Are you talking about Arie's car? That car has way more than just a GIAC software.
He did get his money back, after arguing with the guy for hours...
Just ended up wasting his time and cost of dyno runs, but that's it...

Nope....Brian Henderson....he did 415 WHEEL hp on 91 octane. Brians car has Innovative KO4'sn(some custom work to them), AWE feuling kit, exhaust and some other bits.

My car has just about the same set up...except the custom work on the turbo's. I have not dyno'd it yet as I just got it back from Moss. My butt dyno says it is more powerfull then the RS6.

It seems a lot of the big number tuned cars are running Garrett's/AWE software with all the stage three bits and pieces. KTR did some huge numbers but I believe that was single turbo car. I have not seen any other tuners put down the numbers that the GAIC based software has.....not to say they are not out there....I just have not seen it.

I dont really know about their basic ecu programs with out all the other up grades.

[choppo]

Well from what I see and what I read I have decided,
I have a 100 k warranty and not going to depend on GIAC to flash my ECU everytime I go into service so the dealer does not know ( dealer can spot the GIAC program ) and as far as OCT and MTM all though I know MTM chips are fine the problem with both is you have voided your warranty if the dealer desires it and no way I will put myself in that position.
Even If I got a spare ECU cloned to the car like GIAC and OC T says they can do you have to swap it in and out everytime and those screws and the holes will show wear unless you don't seal it and thats a option all though not worth it right now.
heck with it stock and worry free :)

Maybe @ end or warranty I might consider it or if there is ever a software package that we could load and unload ourselfs that would be a possibilty.

Nice to put key in and not worry either LOL

[DaveyKid]

The car is scary fast as it is and I see no need to void the warranty.

[choppo]

Originally posted by DaveyKid
The car is scary fast as it is and I see no need to void the warranty.

If I were to agree w/ anyone daveykid its you bro
your right :)
Just had to piddle around and find out for myself

[audirs6sport]

Originally posted by choppo
Well from what I see and what I read I have decided,
I have a 100 k warranty and not going to depend on GIAC to flash my ECU everytime I go into service so the dealer does not know ( dealer can spot the GIAC program ) and as far as OCT and MTM all though I know MTM chips are fine the problem with both is you have voided your warranty if the dealer desires it and no way I will put myself in that position.
Even If I got a spare ECU cloned to the car like GIAC and OC T says they can do you have to swap it in and out everytime and those screws and the holes will show wear unless you don't seal it and thats a option all though not worth it right now.
heck with it stock and worry free :)

Maybe @ end or warranty I might consider it or if there is ever a software package that we could load and unload ourselfs that would be a possibilty.

Nice to put key in and not worry either LOL


You should try revo. I have mine on performance mode all the time, and they have never hassled me with it. More than likely it would depend upon the dealer you visit. Some are just really hardass, picky about everything. Some just don't give a f^%* =)

[teamimola/rs6]

Very easy to use as far as swithing modes. (stock/chiped)
392whp 412wtq on Harmon dyno. With 91 craptane, not bad. i also cant wait to try 100 octane mode. theft mode is real cool too.
no tip chip because im afraid to sodder on to the tcu, but im about to put on some PSS9 coil overs and big wheels. So im sure this will give me warrenty issues at the dealer anyway.
As far as the butt dyno, this thing halls a-s. Did i mention smooooth. very nice dyno graphs.
since then i added a custom cat back exhaust.
the car sounds amazing.
Anyway two thmbs up for REVO:race:

[nene]

Recently I ran shotgun on an MTM chip'd RS6 in warm weather, and I have to admit that the car is very fast when chip'd. The MTM power is very smooth. Much smoother then I expected, and in fact, top end power seems to have increased more so than low end. Meaning that you get more power on the lower rev range, but it stays hot very high on the rev range.

3rd gear is just a monster, as is with stock RS6, but now with more power on tap!

Scary fast and very smooth. Most definitely a nice chip for sure.
I did not notice any sort of gear hunting, as my friend did not have the tip chip, under normal driving circumstances.

[rs6_newyork]

my short giac experience was this:

the car was faster 1/4 mile vs stock by about a second or so (lined up on a dragstrip against a stock rs6). That was the good news.

Everything else (for me) was bad. Beyond the fluff you see online at various sites, you can get no other info on what the chip or the tcu chip really does. The dealers of all these chips have about an single typed page of info to tell you and if you press, there is nothing more.

You're not expected to have any driveability issues, or ask any questions post sales. You're not even supposed to get a refund and return to stock despite the money back guarantees. The warranty they offer is meaningless, if there is one, it is on the chip or software itself. What does that mean? nothing. As others have said: if you break something and want to discuss whether the chip did it or not, they will no longer answer their phone.

My rs6 didn't like the chip, the power became, for want of a better word, slightly lumpy, the power train (engine, tranny, ecu, tcu - impossible to tell) sometimes did weird things even when tootling around town, such as hesitate, or change revs as though the lockup torque converter was out of sync. And mpg fell whether you used the power or not.

The stock powerplant is silky smooth. Any even slight power fluctuations or shift issues added to the car from mucking with stock you WILL notice, unless you're a 28 year old boy racer.

Why chip? well, I don't like the limiter being in the car and it would be nice to do sub 5 second 0-60 and 12 second 1/4 miles all year round regardless of the weather however I figured there is no chip that gives you just that for nothing but a 3K price tag and some extra gas consumption....or perhaps there is, but i'm not willing to waste time trying them all one by one, to find out...