New RS4 vs RS4 B5 [Archive] - RS6.com | International Community

J.Seven

February 22nd, 2005, 11:09

The new RS4 regarding power and accelaration figures isn´t impressive at all, a stage 1 RS4 B5 will smoke easily the new RS4, and lets not forget, those numbers are from the lighter sedan version so the station wagon should be on pair regarding accelaration with the previous model which is a shame.

I think the new RS4 will shine in some other aspects where previous model never did, like engine sound(there´s nothing like a V8 growl) and chassi refinement, making the ride much more exciting and apealing to the driver. Brakes also seem to improve behond real, according to the specs so i belive this to be a more mature and driver car than the old model, but I have to say that if I had a RS4 B5, i wouldn´t be thinking on chaging to the new model.

J.Seven

5000S old skool

February 22nd, 2005, 12:47

not only does it have more power:

lighter
engine is further back
torque 40/60 front rear

I think the B7 RS4 will really set itself apart from the B5 around track and on country roads. Handling and driving characteristics have been much more track oriented on the B7. This B7 RS4 wasnt meant for the Autobahn as much as the B5 was.

PS - and I bet a Stage 1 B5 couldnt beat a Stage 1 B7? correct?

J.Seven

February 22nd, 2005, 13:34

This V8 engine must be near is maximum output, so there´s nothing much left for the tuners to play with. You can play with the ECU and drop a new complete exhaust system which may bring the power to 430/435Hp, but you´ll spend a fortune and get little in return.

But you´re right, the B5 platform wouldn´t stand a chance in circuit, B5 it´s a more highway full speed type of car, where the B7 with 420Hp must be expert too;)

Nowadays in Germany you can buy a RS4 and drop a stage II or III for total final price of 45/50000Euros and have a 460/500Hp beast on your hands for a reasonable price. This the kind of performance no tuner will get on the B7 car. Ofcourse you wont get the looks of the new RS4 and the glamour of having a new piece of high tech in your hands to play with, unfortunately we can´t have it all ;)

J.Seven

nene

February 22nd, 2005, 13:43

We all have to understand that power is not everything. As you both stated, there are lots of other tweaks to make the new RS4 stand apart enough. I think the most important thing is that Audi keeps putting out great products. Many years have gone by since the B5 was first introduced, and as such, Audi has continued to improve on its delivery of great products.

Both RS4 cars can stand side-by-side, and be extremely proud of its heritage. You can't go wrong with either taking a spot in your garage.

I'm not taking the middle of the road here. But if I had a choice, I'd only pick the B7 simply because it's a newer vehicle. But my heart would be broken for not taking the B5 as well.

Go Audi!

Josers4imola

February 22nd, 2005, 15:56

RS4 B5 + only chip + 420hp= stage I :hahahehe:
RS4 B7 + 420hp + FSI= dificult tuning :doh:
and
see this dates of performances of 2001 SPORST CARS
RS4 B5 x M5 2001 x E55 2001 x M3 2001
Who was more fast?
and now 2005?
RS4 B7 x M5 2005 x E55 2005

sorry, but NO TURBOS, NO FUN :bye2:

:rs4addict

clam

February 23rd, 2005, 01:23

http://www.mtm-online.de/html/preisliste.php4?Modell=RS4&FZID=RS4Q
http://www.bb-automobiltechnik.de/bb2004/en/produkte/motoren/audi/a4/b5/mau_a4_b5_rs4.php

^Tuning the 2.7T is not that cheap, either.

A decent engine tune up will always be expensive, even if it's turbo charged. And if you do it on the cheap, you will get something cheap. Probably cheaper even, then what you paid for it.

*Koro for instance, an old player in the engineering game (worked on V10TDi and DSG), and a new player on the tuning market, will probably have some ideas for the V8. They managed to push the n/a GT3 engine up to 485hp.
And the more prevelant the engine becomes (S6, A8, A9,... ?), the better the offerings from the various tuners will be.

*
http://www.m5board.com/articles.php?id=28
http://www.koro.de/

Fab

February 23rd, 2005, 09:10

You will always find quicker than you on a straight line run and a chipped B5 will be ahead no discussion about it. But what about corners and real driving...

RS4 B5 owners must be prepared to be smoked on a track :race: or mountains roads where brakes and handling are key.

Don't get me wrong my comment is friendly and both cars a great. Having driven my brother in law's 420hp B5 I felt like in a plane ! Incredible power :MTM:

Except pure acceleration, torque is also less than the 56mkg of a stage 1 B5, but what about 8250rpm feeling with amazing sound and perfect manual gearbox....

My opinion is that when the car will be available many B5 owner will go for it and skip the pure power output criteria.

Josers4imola

February 23rd, 2005, 11:08

Yes, I agree the RS4 B7 is better RS4 B5 in circuit, I know :p
but I live in city with roads and big lines, I don´t live in circuit
At last everything depends on that use will be given to the car, if only tracks or streets :bye2:

Fab

February 23rd, 2005, 12:25

You are right, this finally means that both b5 & b7 are both better than the other for different aspects.

B7 is not made for track only of course not but made to be able to have great fun on both track and opened road which is less the case for the b5 we have to admit it (brakes, handling). Howners of b5 going on track 2-5 times a year or more have all upgraded brakes, suspensions and even rims (fragile). With the b7 it will not be necessary.

Coming back to power we all know that manufacturers can't go further and further and Audi understood this in a certain way.

Frankly, comparing both b5 stage 1 & b7 stock the difference is what 0.2-0.3 to 100km/h and 1 sec for the km start being optimistic....Honestly it is not a big deal for me.

I am shure that b5 olders will go for the b7 anyway. If it is not now when first delivery will start but when you will physically need to change car what can you choose after a RS4 ? A RS4 of course...or a new RS6 but will have to be patient

:bye:

by the way I enjoy your web page. Great job !

5000S old skool

February 23rd, 2005, 12:33

Originally posted by Josers4imola
Yes, I agree the RS4 B7 is better RS4 B5 in circuit, I know :p
but I live in city with roads and big lines, I don´t live in circuit
At last everything depends on that use will be given to the car, if only tracks or streets :bye2:

Im sure that when the Avant version comes out, it wil most likely be the best performance/daily one could ever have. (next to an RS6+ of course)

A418TQTip

February 24th, 2005, 21:23

Originally posted by Josers4imola
Yes, I agree the RS4 B7 is better RS4 B5 in circuit, I know :p
but I live in city with roads and big lines, I don´t live in circuit
At last everything depends on that use will be given to the car, if only tracks or streets :bye2:

Well, I'm assuming you meant you hit a lot of traffic on your daily commute. If that's the case, BOTH will get the job done. The B7 RS4 is far from being a "track-only" car...

Just curious... Why do you need 500+HP in bumper to bumper traffic?

Fab

February 25th, 2005, 15:16

Sorry Jose but I will not leave you in peace :deal: ;)

To come back again on your great web site there is very a nice vid where the 517hp imola Rs4 shows impressive numbers like 0-200 in 15.1sec.

But there is also the green RS4 430hp which delivers 0-100 in 5.12sec and 0-200 in 16.7sec which is basically slightly more than the B7 perfs with 10hp more.

Knowing that most of the tuned B5 have stage 1 around 420-430 hp the perfs are not so best compared to the B7....

Of course no comments on the 517hp congratulation for the car :bow:

Ciao

Josers4imola

February 25th, 2005, 17:06

Originally posted by A418TQTip
Well, I'm assuming you meant you hit a lot of traffic on your daily commute. If that's the case, BOTH will get the job done. The B7 RS4 is far from being a "track-only" car...

Just curious... Why do you need 500+HP in bumper to bumper traffic?

Are you kidding, did you really asked why do I need 500Hp for bumper to bumper traffic????????? :w:
Well let me put it this way, if I had had 1000Hp for bumper to bumper traffic, I would be even happier that I am with 500Hp
Having said that, I was looking for Top speed rush and blastering acelaration figures when I dropped 517Hp into the RS4 engine bay.
If my main intention was to drive on circuit :race: I would have bought a Porsche or Ferrari for that matter and not a pseudo sport and big station wagon which wasn´t made for circuit but to be :rs4kiss: the king of highway speeds :rs4kiss: and I can assure you that at 310Kph the highway curves become like a tigh and challanging mountain road where you have to point the front on the right place at the right time. Have you ever heard your tires screaming at 280Kph in a turn WOAHHHH....

:rs4addict "long life to V6tt"

Josers4imola

February 25th, 2005, 19:44

Kram

February 25th, 2005, 20:18

Originally posted by Fab
Sorry Jose but I will not leave you in peace :deal: ;)

To come back again on your great web site there is very a nice vid where the 517hp imola Rs4 shows impressive numbers like 0-200 in 15.1sec.

But there is also the green RS4 430hp which delivers 0-100 in 5.12sec and 0-200 in 16.7sec which is basically slightly more than the B7 perfs with 10hp more.

Knowing that most of the tuned B5 have stage 1 around 420-430 hp the perfs are not so best compared to the B7....

Of course no comments on the 517hp congratulation for the car :bow:

Ciao

Fab, You need to see the hole picture here.
Those times clocked by the magazine were obtained in a very hot and humid day. The track is located at more than 2400ft above sea.

To have a better perspective take a look at times obtained at the same track and day, by the same testers, in a supercar shootout to a sister magazine (only stock cars):

996TT; 360Modena; Maserati4200CC; BMWM3; Audi RS6
0-100km/h 5,6; 5,7; 6,2; 6,0; 6,1 sec
0-200km/h 17,6; 19,7; 21,0; 21,8; 21,2 sec

So, 15,1sec 0-200km/h better the Porsche time by 2,5sec !!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the same track, same driver and same condition!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now you can put a perspective of this RS4 with more than 500hp.

On real world, where AWD make a Huge difference and you can maintain 100% of the performance almost all the time, the NA engine will feel slow against B5/RS4 beasts. On tracks, it will depend much more on the driver skill and guts, because the practical difference is minimal. I think that without a turbo the RS4 will be competing in a different niche. I really don’t see the point on making a high rev NA engine. The magic behind the R8 is FSI with a High Power on lower revs engine.

Regards,
Mark

S3 freak

February 25th, 2005, 22:12

Well... I have to agree with Mark. Those numbers are really impressive.. comparing the tests made at the same track by the same magazine, Jose´s :rs4addict really smoked the competition. :rs4kiss:

S3 freak

February 25th, 2005, 22:21

J.Seven

February 25th, 2005, 22:26

Originally posted by Fab
Sorry Jose but I will not leave you in peace :deal: ;)

To come back again on your great web site there is very a nice vid where the 517hp imola Rs4 shows impressive numbers like 0-200 in 15.1sec.

But there is also the green RS4 430hp which delivers 0-100 in 5.12sec and 0-200 in 16.7sec which is basically slightly more than the B7 perfs with 10hp more.

Knowing that most of the tuned B5 have stage 1 around 420-430 hp the perfs are not so best compared to the B7....

Of course no comments on the 517hp congratulation for the car :bow:

Ciao

The time performe by those two RS4 were way under the real times both could have achieved. The test was made on Brasil and maybe due to humidity and very hot climate the accelaration numbers were not the best, but as you must know Sport Auto tested at the same time four RS4 with 450 to 460Hp each and the results were amazing. See the picture.
These are performance figures that the B7 wil never achive, unless a crazy tuner drop a turbo system and kills the engine in no time.

The RS4 from José with 517Hp with proper gas and a good lunch should make 4,0Sec to 100Kph and round about 13,4 to 200Kph.
Believe me those RS4 are amazing power beasts, I´ve had the pleasure of riding on both :thumb:
http://www.rs6.com/pics/RS4/Tuners/sport-auto-RS4-tuning.jpg

J.Seven

Fab

February 26th, 2005, 09:43

Yeah I know this table and no comment at all about the time:bow: especially the Sportec:king: from Switzerland :applause:

Havind said that the B&B and Evotech look pretty slow compared to the other two and again compared to a B7 the difference is not so big with 30hp more.

Understand me right on all this discussion, both cars are great and having driven my brother in lay B5 stage 1 few times I am repeating myself what a f....... plane on the road, accelration is amazing.

But We will all agree that except torque a B7 will be very similar to a b5 stage 1 (420-430hp) in pure acceleration and of course potentially better on handling and turns depending on the driver of course.

I have been very close to switch ma S4 ABT with an RS4 few time since 2001 but I managed to wait in order to get the last version with up to date technology and design.

This is the reason why I am trying to convince myself about the b7 being an equivalent performer of b5 taking into consideration my great feeling with the b5.

That's all of course a 450 hp biturbo will perform better than a 420hp NA but anyway look time to time in your back mirror:king:

My last post was especially a ;) for Jose and his web site :thumb:

Erik

February 26th, 2005, 11:02

Interesting to see that two of those RS4s are as fast or faster than the new M5. Tuned vs. Stock I know, but still. Maybe the RS4 isn't so worthless after all ;)

A418TQTip

February 26th, 2005, 11:16

Originally posted by Josers4imola
Are you kidding, did you really asked why do I need 500Hp for bumper to bumper traffic????????? :w:
Well let me put it this way, if I had had 1000Hp for bumper to bumper traffic, I would be even happier that I am with 500Hp

No, I wasn't kidding... Having 1000HP in bumper to bumper traffic makes perfect sense, I guess... :rolleyes:

Looks like we Americans are not the only ones into "straight line adrenaline rush" after all...

A418TQTip

February 26th, 2005, 21:19

Originally posted by S3 freak
Well, maybe 500+ HP to kill Porsches, Ferraris, and E60M5, because I think that the competition like the M3 can be easily smoked by a stock B5 or B7:rs4addict ...:D :D

Freak,

You missed my point...

My lowly A4 could do the same. My question was: why would someone want 500+HP to sit in traffic? :vhmmm:

All that power would come in handy on a track, but he made it clear that's not the case... Unless, of course, public roads have a different name where he lives...

A418TQTip

February 26th, 2005, 21:26

Originally posted by Erik
Maybe the RS4 isn't so worthless after all ;)

Worthless? Not at all! :D :rs4addict

Josers4imola

February 26th, 2005, 22:54

J.Seven

February 26th, 2005, 22:57

Originally posted by A418TQTip
Freak,

You missed my point...

My lowly A4 could do the same. My question was: why would someone want 500+HP to sit in traffic? :vhmmm:

All that power would come in handy on a track, but he made it clear that's not the case... Unless, of course, public roads have a different name where he lives...

José has two other cars for everyday drive and city drive, I can assure you that 90% of the time he picks up the RS4 is to take the hell out of it on the highway and country roads near by.

I really give him credit for what he did with his car, instead of dropping a bunch of aftermarket cheap spoilers, sport bumpers, chromed wheels, awful audio power systems and other PIMP goddies, he just spent his money where it should, on the heart of the beast. His RS4 is totally stock regarding original lines which is great.
He contacted one of the most reputable tuners in Germany and bought a performance package that was properly tested and tuned to provide the best power giving a reasonable reliability.
This only shows he´s a man of good taste and knowledge :thumb: :rs4addict

A418TQTip

February 27th, 2005, 00:25

Originally posted by Josers4imola
This is a joke!!!:trash: again :deal:
or
you are :doh: :argue:
For the last time: :eye:
FOR THE TRACKS PORSCHES and FERRARIS :race:
FOR ROADS, BIG LINES RS4 +500hp= 310kph :rs4kiss:
and for the trafic :D Bus or Taxi puke:
Now is clearly?
cheers

DUDE!

C'mon... Porsche and Ferrari for the track? That's BS and you know it. Very few Porsche and Ferrari owners will actually take their cars to the track... Plus, these cars have never been so civilized as they are now.

So, once again, Porsche and Ferrari for the tracks and 500+HP Audis for the open road and 'big lines' (I have no idea what that means in terms ) is no sense.

Anyway, J. Seven answered my question. It's just that you led those who don't know you (or details of your project for that matter) to believe you put together a fast car only to waste all that power sitting in traffic. Here, let me quote what you wrote:

but I live in city with roads and big lines, I don´t live in circuit

BTW, 310Kmh on public roads? I didn't know there were Autobahns in South America. :rolleyes:

A418TQTip

February 27th, 2005, 00:35

Originally posted by J.Seven
José has two other cars for everyday drive and city drive, I can assure you that 90% of the time he picks up the RS4 is to take the hell out of it on the highway and country roads near by.

I really give him credit for what he did with his car, instead of dropping a bunch of aftermarket cheap spoilers, sport bumpers, chromed wheels, awful audio power systems and other PIMP goddies, he just spent his money where it should, on the heart of the beast. His RS4 is totally stock regarding original lines which is great.
He contacted one of the most reputable tuners in Germany and bought a performance package that was properly tested and tuned to provide the best power giving a reasonable reliability.
This only shows he´s a man of good taste and knowledge :thumb: :rs4addict

J. Seven,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not questioning the quality of the project, but the idea behind it.

Oh well, it looks like we ended up breaking the language barrier with your help. :thumb:

Josers4imola

February 27th, 2005, 02:22

Originally posted by A418TQTip
DUDE!

C'mon... Porsche and Ferrari for the track? That's BS and you know it. Very few Porsche and Ferrari owners will actually take their cars to the track... Plus, these cars have never been so civilized as they are now.

So, once again, Porsche and Ferrari for the tracks and 500+HP Audis for the open road and 'big lines' (I have no idea what that means in terms ) is no sense.

Anyway, J. Seven answered my question. It's just that you led those who don't know you (or details of your project for that matter) to believe you put together a fast car only to waste all that power sitting in traffic. Here, let me quote what you wrote:

BTW, 310Kmh on public roads? I didn't know there were Autobahns in South America. :rolleyes:

ARE YOU COP, POLICEMAN? :vgrumpy:
Do you know South America?
Do you know Brazil?
What´s the problem: :dance: AUDI CARS, AUDI RS4 or AUDI RS4 +500hp?
you are very very funny, a perfect comedian!!! :applause:
but see :rs4kiss:

http://img213.exs.cx/img213/6417/rs4topspeed2lw.th.jpg (http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=rs4topspeed2lw.jpg)

http://img94.exs.cx/img94/4231/rs4topspeed29kd.th.jpg (http://img94.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img94&image=rs4topspeed29kd.jpg)

I´m waiting for the next joke :0:

J.Seven

February 27th, 2005, 12:05

Originally posted by A418TQTip

BTW, 310Kmh on public roads? I didn't know there were Autobahns in South America. :rolleyes:

A418 I´m not from Brasil and I don´t leave there, but I was there last year to be with José and his friends. All of them had RS4 and we take a day to make a 500Km trip with three RS4. Ón that day I´ve saw the most beautiful highways in my life. There were three lane highways brand new on the midle of palm trees and green beautiful mountains surrounding the road, someting really special. They have lots of highways, ofcorse here in Europe we have much more, but not in the mildle of palm trees:cry:

Here´s some pics of that day
http://a9.cpimg.com/image/DD/72/45516509-b272-024401B3-.jpg
http://a8.cpimg.com/image/DC/72/45516508-50ca-024401B3-.jpg

A418TQTip

February 27th, 2005, 13:24

Originally posted by Josers4imola
ARE YOU COP, POLICEMAN? :vgrumpy:
Do you know South America?
Do you know Brazil?
What´s the problem: :dance: AUDI CARS, AUDI RS4 or AUDI RS4 +500hp?
you are very very funny, a perfect comedian!!! :applause:

I´m waiting for the next joke :0:

Joke? Are you nuts? I don't think this is laughing matter...

Like I said, you led some to believe you waste 500HP sitting in traffic... Now, that would've been a joke.

Do I need to be a cop to have a conscience? :rolleyes: Anyway, I'm pretty sure you could bribe your way out of trouble down there... :doh:

A418TQTip

February 27th, 2005, 13:43

Originally posted by J.Seven
A418 I´m not from Brasil and I don´t leave there, but I was there last year to be with José and his friends. All of them had RS4 and we take a day to make a 500Km trip with three RS4. Ón that day I´ve saw the most beautiful highways in my life. There were three lane highways brand new on the midle of palm trees and green beautiful mountains surrounding the road, someting really special. They have lots of highways, ofcorse here in Europe we have much more, but not in the mildle of palm trees:cry:

J. Seven,

I'm glad you enjoyed the scenery down there.

Now, did you see any 310Kmh speed limit signs? I really don't think that kind of speed is compatible with public roads. That's just me though.

Anyway, I was just curious when I asked what the idea behind his project was since he implied his car doesn't see much track time. That's all.

S3 freak

February 27th, 2005, 15:18

Originally posted by A418TQTip
Joke? Are you nuts? I don't think this is laughing matter...

Like I said, you led some to believe you waste 500HP sitting in traffic... Now, that would've been a joke.

Do I need to be a cop to have a conscience? :rolleyes: Anyway, I'm pretty sure you could bribe your way out of trouble down there... :doh:

I think u didn´t get the point. The original thread was about B5 x B7 RS4. What i got from Jose´s and J.Seven´s posts is that José drives his B5 RS4 at highways here in Brazil :incar: , where he can have plenty of fun with the car. And for that purpose, a B5 RS4 can do the job easily, maybe better than the B7 RS4 that has a NA engine. The B7 RS4 can have better handling but you wil notice that when u drive it to the limits, like a track, and I think that´s not the case for José.

PS: if u think that a 500hp + car is just for track use, and considering that only few owners put their cars on the track (as u said before about Porsche and Ferrari owners), tell me why companies like Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari produces cars with that more than 500hp, and why the consumers buy it...
How can u tell that he can bribe a cop?? Have u ever been to Brazil to tell that, or u are concluding this because it´s a Third World country ??:argue:...If u don´t know, the highways here have a lot of radars that take a pic of your license plate when u are speeding, and u receive the ticket at home... it´s difficult to get caught by the cops... Driving at high speeds is not allowed here in Brazil, but early in the morning and late at night u can drive at these roads with no traffic and without risking someone´s life... the only problem is that u can get a ticket for speeding..

J.Seven

February 27th, 2005, 17:10

[i]Originally posted by A418TQTip Anyway, I'm pretty sure you could bribe your way out of trouble down there... :doh: [/B]

A418TQ, I think you´re going to far with your words and assumptions, don´t get into personal attacks, it doesn´t suit you well.
This is a respectful forum with respectful people, so please, if you want to lower the level of your discussion towards José send him a PM so that we don´t have to face this kind of behavior from you here.

J.Seven

A418TQTip

February 27th, 2005, 17:46

Originally posted by S3 freak
PS: if u think that a 500hp + car is just for track use, and considering that only few owners put their cars on the track (as u said before about Porsche and Ferrari owners), tell me why companies like Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari produces cars with that more than 500hp, and why the consumers buy it...
How can u tell that he can bribe a cop?? Have u ever been to Brazil to tell that, or u are concluding this because it´s a Third World country ??:argue:...If u don´t know, the highways here have a lot of radars that take a pic of your license plate when u are speeding, and u receive the ticket at home... it´s difficult to get caught by the cops... Driving at high speeds is not allowed here in Brazil, but early in the morning and late at night u can drive at these roads with no traffic and without risking someone´s life... the only problem is that u can get a ticket for speeding..

Freak,

I never said 500HP is for track use only. Although, you'd think a car like that saw lots of track time...

German automakers make cars with the Autobahn in mind. According to what you said, you guys don't have those in Brazil.

That's interesting. Laws change early in the morning and late at night?

A418TQTip

February 27th, 2005, 17:55

Originally posted by J.Seven
A418TQ, I think you´re going to far with your words and assumptions, don´t get into personal attacks, it doesn´t suit you well.
This is a respectful forum with respectful people, so please, if you want to lower the level of your discussion towards José send him a PM so that we don´t have to face this kind of behavior from you here.

J.Seven

J. Seven,

Unless Jose is a cop (don't think he is), I simply stated fact based on what I hear about his country.

Come to think of it, he resorted to name-calling first (i.e. comedian, smilies, etc).

Anyway, you're right. I'm done with this thread.

Josers4imola

February 28th, 2005, 01:30

My friend, A418TQTip :D
I did not understand, Why the topic changing the focus for
:revs:"How and where can you use an car of 500hp":revs: initiated for you, certain, remember, ok? :doh:
The topical was RS4 B5 x RS4 B7!!!!
Which is real problem? :hahahehe:
and maybe i´m wrong, but A418TQTip, your form of to criticize owners of audi and your form of write is very very very equal of a bimmer exE46M3 of brazilian forum, if i´m wrong, please sorry ;)
cheers