How much carbon fibre will the new RS4 have?

[Erik]

So we (think) we know everything about the new RS4.

But if it's supposed to be fast and agile on the race track it needs to be light as well. One of the biggest problems with Audi if you ask me. Best interior available, quattro, loads of options but at the cost of weight, feel and performance.

But there's technology to fix that, lower the weight.
Like BMW did with the CSL. Carboin fibre roof and other parts as well as other interesting stuff.

So how much carbon fibre will the new RS4 have?

I also expect something like the DRC, but further developed.
Adjustable DRC?

[Benman]

I agree that it would be ideal to see Audi (quattro) make extensive use of carbon fiber to lighten things up. However it almost goes without saying that it is very unlikely that this will happen.

There are already people complaining (Stateside at least) about the price, stating that they will not be buying the car if the price exceeds $70K (this, despite the fact that the LAST RS 4 was $70K). I just don't see Audi pushing too much tech into the car, driving the price up and up. Maybe it is true, and quattro will dumb down the car for us. That way us US folk won't get the real deal just like back in the 80's we didn't get the original Sport Quattro cause THAT was too much $$$

Would be cool though if the did the whole thing in unpainted carbon like the Lamborghini Racer :hahahehe:

Ben:addict:

[QuattroFun]

I must agree that sensible use of lightweight materials is ideal for the RS4 but not that likely I guess in a world of cost savings. That said, who cares if the carbon roof on the new M6/M3 CSL saves 4.5-6kg when ceramic brakes would tenfold that weight saving? The M3 CSL was not good value by any measure for non-track freaks. Of course, carbon brakes could cost maybe EUR7000 or so in excess of standard brakes but it would do wonders for unsprung weight if not brake performance on the track.

Personally, I too demand good value (bang for buck) but fail to see what the mainly US-sourced whining about the price of the S4 or RS4 is all about or rather if it is at all relevant. Yes, a quality product costs money and either you think that there is sufficient value to buy it or then not. I would not buy a Lambo partly for this reason although I am sure it is a great car and M3 CSL residual tale tells us all about how good value that car was.

I must agree with Nordschliefe that the US perception/demand of what the RS4 should cost in absolute terms rather what it can do and how good value it is is dangerous in that it may result in a too compromised/diluted RS4 and risks to leave us Europeans to pick up the bill for everybody in subsidised US car prices.

[Benman]

Originally posted by QuattroFun


Personally, I too demand good value (bang for buck) but fail to see what the mainly US-sourced whining about the price of the S4 or RS4 is all about or rather if it is at all relevant. Yes, a quality product costs money and either you think that there is sufficient value to buy it or then not. I would not buy a Lambo partly for this reason although I am sure it is a great car and M3 CSL residual tale tells us all about how good value that car was.

I must agree with Nordschliefe that the US perception/demand of what the RS4 should cost in absolute terms rather what it can do and how good value it is is dangerous in that it may result in a too compromised/diluted RS4 and risks to leave us Europeans to pick up the bill for everybody in subsidised US car prices.
Exactly. It'd help if more people on this side of the pond understood that.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[kujo]

It's not 'Whining'.......

I just saw a beautiful, 9mo old RS6 for 70K a few weeks ago here in LA.

Me, personally, yes I'd love an RS4. Got my mind/heart set on it.
Will I pay over 70k for it ? Probably not much more than that.

I didn't bat an eye at a 56k price tag on a fully loaded S4. (even though I got it at 407 over invoice;-)

Very soon there will be a SC available for my 2005 S4 putting it at/above the 425 spec for the new RS4. So, if it's +70k, that's the route I'll go.

No one 'Stateside' is "whining", just realistic to the fact that Audi will have a hell of a time selling them over 70K. :doh:

:rs4kiss: :rs4addict:

Kurt

[A418TQTip]

Guys,

I know this questions is a bit OT, but since value was introduced in the debate, how much is an RS4 in showroom condition worth these days? It's my understanding they hold their value pretty well, right?

[Benman]

Originally posted by kujo
It's not 'Whining'.......
No one 'Stateside' is "whining", just realistic to the fact that Audi will have a hell of a time selling them over 70K. :doh:

:rs4kiss: :rs4addict:

Kurt
So maybe it would be better all together if AOA just doesn't import it.

As for resale, someone from Europe would be better qualified to answer that but from everything I've seen and read (including autotrader.co.uk) shows they have a pretty good resale.

Ben:addict: (back to topic, carbon fiber= sweet, but not likely)

[Audihead]

You will most likely see more use of aluminium than carbon fiber. I would say in the doors, hood, trunk, and maybe the roof. Just my .02.

:s4addict:

P.S. No one on this side of the pond is whining. We have a very good idea of what a car should be worth. I actually feel very bad for the people in Europe who get screwed on the price of these cars. Your taxes are outrageous as well. It does not take 70K or 80K to make these vehicles, there is a good amount of money built into these cars. Don't feel bad for the manufacturer either, they will make their money. If i could buy a car over here and ship it to you i would.

[kujo]

Originally posted by Benman
So maybe it would be better all together if AOA just doesn't import it.

As for resale, someone from Europe would be better qualified to answer that but from everything I've seen and read (including autotrader.co.uk) shows they have a pretty good resale.

Ben:addict: (back to topic, carbon fiber= sweet, but not likely)


Would you pay over 70K for an RS4 when you can get an RS6, under a year old for 70 or less ?

[Benman]

Originally posted by kujo
Would you pay over 70K for an RS4 when you can get an RS6, under a year old for 70 or less ?
We're starting to get more and more off topic here but in response I'd have to say that's an invalid question. I'm not trying to dodge the question, just that it doesn't relate.

First of all, in my area there is only ONE RS 6 for sale for "$70K or less". And that is doing a ONE HUNDRED MILE RADIOUS search. Hope you like silver, cause that's all there is for the price you guys keep quoting.

Second of all, you're comparing apples to oranges. Comparing the "worth" of a new car to a used one is a lot like comparing a stock car to a tuned one. I mean come on. Why not just ask me if I'd pay $70K for the upcoming RS 4 (which by the way I would), when I could buy (like Bauer did) a HEAVILY modified S4 for way less money. After all, even though I have yet to see Bauer's car in action (due to an illness) I can say with confidence that it performs probably as well (if not better) as the new RS 4 will on a track. So again, comparing used to new or tuned to stock is lame. I freely admit that it IS NOT financially better to purchase a brand new vehicle versus one that is a few years old and still under warranty for $10s of thousands less. But for some reason I did. For some reason you guys did also. Why? Why not purchase a used S4 and modify that. It would spank your "new" S4 and save you thousands. I guess sometimes we like to buy a car that is bone stock and yet sweet at the same time.

Third and last, the RS 4 will be RARE. Despite any "opinions" the RS 6 IS more rare than the E55 or the M5. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. Just look at the production quotes. You guys state that AOA had a hard time selling the RS 6s and that dealers had them in stock for months. I'm not sure what dealers you frequent but those RS 6s that "sat" are nothing compared to the S4s I see ALL the time at EVERY Audi dealer in California. Hoehn Audi has a whole bunch of any color you want in stock right now. Walter's Audi has tons of them as well. Pacific Audi...etc... My point is that S4s are everywhere, RS 4s will not be. Rs 4s will be out numbered by S4s by a factor of close to 10 to 1 by the time it's all said and done. No matter what kind of $$$ you sink into an S4 it will not be and never will be a RS 4. So please, if $70K is too much for you to spend, than don't get it. Wait 3 or 4 years and then buy it. You'll save thousands and be all the smarter for it. Just don't say it costs too much.


Ben:addict: :rs4addict

P.S. Getting back to topic, it is obvious as we can see, that the RS 4 will NOT have carbon fiber:bye:

[tailpipe]

Reports from Germany intimate that the next RS4 will weigh around 1600 kgs, i.e. it wll be lighter than the current S4. To achieve this, it will have to utilise weight saving technologies. I expect aluminium rather than exotic carbon fibre body panels, but we may see carbon fibre used more extensively under the skin, possibly in the transmission casing and linkages and in the dashboard structure and cabin.

Back to the issue of pricing. Firstly, the RS4 will be Audi's performance flagship until the RS9 and next RS6 arrive, so it has to be good. It has to raise its game versus the existing RS6, I expect it to do this firstly through its engine. If I am right, the new high-revving 4.2 V8 with FSI technology will be absolutely superb. Secondly, I expect the chassis and handling dynamics to be a league above the RS6. In other words, it will be a much more able machine on twisty roads. I expect it to eclipse the M3 CSL for sure,. More than that, I think it should even put up a fair challenge to he much heavier M5 saloon.

So the RS4 will certainly be able to justify a price tag of £45K-£50K in the UK. Will it sell for $70K in the USA? Who knows. But the low dollar isn't just an issue that affects German premium car imports, it cuts across a whole raft of other consumer products.

The Fed will need to do something and would be surprised if US interest rates didn't increase next year to force a correction. I expect this to happen late 2005 early 2006. You may not see new RS models in the USA until then.

[A418TQTip]

Originally posted by tailpipe
I expect it to eclipse the M3 CSL for sure

I wouldn't be so sure... IF 1600Kg is correct, that's considerably more weight to throw around corners...



More than that, I think it should even put up a fair challenge to he much heavier M5 saloon.

It better smoke the E60 M5, since we are once again comparing apples to oranges.

[Benman]

Originally posted by A418TQTip

It better smoke the E60 M5, since we are once again comparing apples to oranges.
It is apples to oranges but the M5 will be $90K+ so if the RS 4 can very close to the performance (at $15-$20K less) than it would indicate a better value.

Ben:addict:

[A418TQTip]

Originally posted by Benman
It is apples to oranges but the M5 will be $90K+ so if the RS 4 can very close to the performance (at $15-$20K less) than it would indicate a better value.

Ben:addict:

Most definitely.