sway bars

[Benman]

HOLY FREAKIN CRAP!!!:bigeyes: :bigeyes: :bigeyes: :bigeyes:

I go away for ONE weekend and this is what I come back to:confused:

My intention was NEVER to start a war but I guess that is what happened. I apologies if I was the one that started any offensive behavior but I double checked my posts and don't believe I did.:confused:

As for Hotchkis I've heard reputable things both on and off the track on their products. Did they tell me one thing and tell you guys another? I guess we'll find out tomorrow when I go down.

One funny thing. I offered for any interested to go along with me for a before AND after test ride. None sent me a pm. Why slam a product (for that matter an ENTIRE MANUFACTURE) and not even go down for a FREE test drive to give them the benefit of the doubt:confused: .

Doesn't make sense to me. It's sad to see some of audiworlds attitude trickling into this site:(

I'll let everyone know how it went. If you're not interested because of pre conseptions then please DO NOT READ MY FOLLOW UP POST. I do not want another war and another INFORMATIVE thread closed!

Ben:addict:

[nene]

I wish the tuner selling said sway bars would have posted and cleared up a few things. But, alas, they never did!!!

[gjg]

I wish the tuner selling said sway bars would have posted and cleared up a few things :confused:

as the track record goes, they have yet to clear other statements too .....

:brag:

[Benman]

OK.

As planned I went down to Hotchkis's headquarters for the test fit. It was mentioned by nyRS6 that the sway bars they were installing on my car were the same they were selling for regular A6s (as in the ones that Carban Lord has).This is not the case. What IS the case is the sway bars BEING sold for the RS 6 DO in fact have the same part# as the sway bars for regular A6s because they are the same.

However the prototype sway bar for the rear they installed for my RS 6 is completely unique. It is just as I said, a prototype. It is NOT yet for sale. What they told nyRS6 (whoever answered the call) is 100% true. If you call and ask for the RS 6 sway bars they will sell you the A6 upgrade bar because that is the ONLY sway bar upgrade they have for sale at this time. And believe me it will still work fine as members that have it on already can attest. It's just not made for the RS 6.

As Nordschleife stated they wouldn't just make up some crap and market it without R&D. So that is what they are doing. They are waiting to put the new bar on the market till we've put some "test" miles on and see how we like it. At that point any suggestions, such as an even more agressive rear bar will be considered and a second (most likely final) prototype will be made. At that point the RS 6 set will be for sale. It should be noted that the FRONT sway bar that was installed (and YES, contrary to previous statments regarding the front bar it does matter and have an obvious effect on handling!) is the EXACT same front bar they offer for the A6 (2.7T, 4.2 etc..). They feel confident that bar will be good for the RS 6 and are not in a hurry to mess with that until we see how things go with the rear.

For those curious the FACTORY rear A6 bar has a 18mm dimension (with sport package). Theirs is 22mm.

For the RS 6 prototype they made a 24mm.

The front is the same 35mm offered for the 2.7T. Factory RS 6 is 29mm!

Enough with specs. As I said we did a BEFORE AND AFTER drive back to back (and again the offer was good but no one showed up). Once the bars were installed there was a night and day difference (I believe CarbonLord on how they've transformed his car). I doubt the difference is quite as drastic (over stock A6) since the RS 6 is already agressively engineered but a NOTICEABLE improvement is there for sure. The car turns much cleaner and sharper with less understeer. It is by no means too agressive where sudden oversteer would be even a consideration. Time will tell as I've only put 75 miles on the Beast since the upgrade. I plan on putting as many "back road" miles on these as I can so that they can get feedback quicker (longer it takes, longer it takes to make the New Prototype).

Again, the offer goes out to ANY RS 6 owner who wants to meet up with me and go for a drive. You can drive your car and then drive mine "back to back" for comparisions on what you like or even dislike over the stock bars (after all the more people that try them the better). I'm sure you'll find what Carbon Lord says to be accurate when it comes to these being a quality product. I will note however that this offer is ONLY good for people that are interested in seeing the difference between H-Sport and stock. I refuse to waste my time or the members of this forum with those who could care less about Hotchkis's products.

This offer benefits any who are considering these bars for their Beast as they get to be INVOLVED with how the final bars are. So far I like them alot but after more miles go by (a few Julian runs should do the trick) I may even op for a slightly more agressive rear bar. Ride quality is identical BTW for those interested. It suffers none what so ever.

I'll update as the miles go by but like I said I like them alot and am happy with the staff at Hotchkis, VERY freindly and considerate to say the least.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[nyrs6]

So are you saying that the RS6 sway bars that hotchkis is testing now, is only 2mm bigger in the rear, then the one they sell for the A6 and that there is no change in the front? :confused:




Dont forget if you ordered an RS6 bar you, are still getting different brackets then the A6 bar at least when Speedtechnik installed it for us.


If the sway bars are on street setting does this mean its not a thicker setting then stock? And do you have it on the highest setting?

[avdh]

Ben,

Do you have Hkis contact details and e-mail address?

I want to contact them to book a set for me when ever they are ready.

[Benman]

nyrs6,

The rear bar on my car is 2mm bigger than the one offered for regular A6s. Remember, the stock bar is 20mm in outer diameter so it's an increase of 4mm over stock. If 2 mm doesn't sound like much than remember that the A6 rear bar upgrade that some have on their RS 6s (I presume you're one) is "only 2mm bigger than stock (22mm vs. 20mm) yet still all claim makes a big difference. Obviously something as small as 2mm can make a difference (after all we are not talking about male body parts:D ).

Yes, the brackets are different. To answer your setting question the bar is set on the firmmer of the two settings.:cheers:

avdh,

feel free to send me a pm. I'd be glad to help anyway I can.:cheers:

Still too early to give an update. Will put more miles this weekend and plan on a track event by months end. Bauer if you're still interested in doing one down this way let me know, Willow Springs is an excellent track to try the Beast out on.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[nyrs6]

Originally posted by Benman
nyrs6,

The rear bar on my car is 2mm bigger than the one offered for regular A6s. Remember, the stock bar is 20mm in outer diameter so it's an increase of 4mm over stock. If 2 mm doesn't sound like much than remember that the A6 rear bar upgrade that some have on their RS 6s (I presume you're one) is "only 2mm bigger than stock (22mm vs. 20mm) yet still all claim makes a big difference. Obviously something as small as 2mm can make a difference (after all we are not talking about male body parts:D ).


Ben:addict:

Yes i know the brackets are different. Thats what speedtechnik did. They changed the brackets so that the A6 bar can fit on the RS6. So the front is the same, as youres. Just the back is different from what i understand.

If you have the bars on the lowest setting. Is it as same as stock?

And you said that the highest setting isnt too harsh for the road.

[Benman]

Originally posted by nyrs6
If you have the bars on the lowest setting. Is it as same as stock?

And you said that the highest setting isnt too harsh for the road.
nyrs6,

I can't say for sure as I'm not an enginner (that would be Gary at H-Sports job) but even on the softer setting I would believe it to be different than stock.

Yes, the higher setting it is now on does not appear to be any harsher than stock but I doubt the "softer" setting would make it more comfortable than stock. Where ride quality is concerned it seems dang close. Again I don't want to be one of those guys who are like "Awesome!!! This car is now the BOMB!!!" after only driving 10 miles. I want more miles before any conclusions can be given, but so far so good!

Again, more people that are in the area and want to check it out is fine by meet. For those up in the bay I'd even be willing to compromise meet somewhere in between. Afterall it's better for members of this forum to try on shoes before buying:D .

Ben:addict:

[carbonLORD]

You know, I'm glad you had an opportunity to try the product and judge for yourself, and that you continued to share your experience with others here.

With regards to my prvious flame war that errupted between me and that other guy, I do apologize but he had it comming. That in no way should reflect any bad attitude from AudiWorld members. I think if others take the time to read that long thread they can come to the conclusion as to exactly instigated what on their own.

For now, its great to know the RS 6 can also benifit from this inexpensive modification and that there are members here who can recognize certain benifits with such systems, without the need to bash an entire manufacturer or group of people with experience based on where they post and what model C5 they own.

FWIW I have begun looking for a CPO RS 6 for next season and hopefully I can continue to participate in these discussion in the future, without having to deal with attitudes like "You have an A6 4.2 go away, you don't belong here".

Keep us posted...

[Benman]

Originally posted by carbonLORD
FWIW I have begun looking for a CPO RS 6 for next season and hopefully I can continue to participate in these discussion in the future, without having to deal with attitudes like "You have an A6 4.2 go away, you don't belong here".

Keep us posted...

FWIW the same bars on the Beast could just as easily work with any C5 A6. And as for "just a 4.2 A6" I like to think that any Audi is a good Audi:D :cheers:
Ben:addict:

[Benman]

As promised here is my update.

Over the weekend I was able to put @ 150 freeway miles (91) and @ 160 back road miles.

I wanted the Freeway (91 is horrible) for a ride quality check. Initial impression was no difference but wanted to be sure. After my freeway driving I'm sticking to my original opinion. The car was never a Towncar to begin with (if that's what you want then buy one:D ) but with the stiffer bars the ride is still the same so not bad for the trade off!

The real thing I obviously wanted to find out was how the handling has improved. So to the back roads! With the miles so far I really like what the Beast does. Initial turn in brings a change even in steering feel (which I would mostly contribute to the A6 front bar). The car in my mind never had a lazy turn in and dull steering feel ( and yes some of you Porsche driver's will say otherwise) but it has improved on what was already good IMHO.

Steering feel is now a little more weighted and turn in a little crisper. Once a corner is being negociated the car has a little less body roll than stock (again, no bar can change the laws of physics!) but the big difference comes once the car has set up in the corner. Once "set" the car hunkers down better than ever and just sticks. It's road holding is now noticibly improved. Transitional S curves and handled with an improved weight transfer (I would think that Slalom times will be improving) and you can feel it in the way the car behaves.

The trade off (cause their simply must be at least one) is on REALLY bad roads ( the road to Julian is great because it has sections of brand spanking new AND old asphalt) is that over certain blind crests where the road quality is very poor (i.e. lots of pot holes and bumps) the car will get light where you're just passing over the peak. Not scary light but more than before where the old (stock) bars would help absorb the crest (due to their not being as stiff). Again this is a very minor observation (as it's a VERY slight difference) but I'm trying to be as thorough as possible. On British B roads (At least according to all the Mags:D ) it could possibly come in to factor.

The way my first impression has gone makes me VERY anxious to try these out on the track. The way the car really gets down and hugs the road is wetting my appitite for track time. I would say that in a track environment we could go even more agressive, but in in the real world (again with poor road surfaces in certain situations) I think this is an ideal set up. I'll have to wait and see till after the 26th to say for sure but I'm confident the car will perform better than when I was there in May. I'll keep all posted:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[avdh]

Thanks Ben

[Benman]

Well after some track time I wanted to update everyone. All said got in over 100 track miles (yes I know, that's only 9 or 10 laps at the Nordschleife!).

The car definately has more of a rear wheel drive feel to it now. On the track it is much funner and tossable. If it actually adds or reduces the lap times I could'nt tell you as I did not have a transponder. I can tell you that I had a better time driving those laps and that's the point. It makes the RS 6 more fun to drive in a sporting environment.

In the long sweeping turn 2 (for those who have been there) the car squats down and digs in and a higher speed can be maintained vrs before. In the turn 3-5 complex the car has a better weight transfer and does not get as out of shape as before. And another big difference was in the final turn 9. A huge decreasing radius turn where you enter at big speeds and eventually have to brake right before you hit the front straight. Before I never could get the courage to get the car much over 110 but this time after some laps was trying 120 (more experience definately counts). Overall I think the bars work great. Carbon Lord said it best that you should try it first before passing judgement based on hear say. So far a very good value factor. Combined with the lightweight SSRs and R compound tires The RS 6 was a very quick car around the track (especially for such a big pig:D ).

Just an observation. It kind of goes without saying that turbo cars HATE the heat. The hotter the day got the slower the car got, and not by just a little. This was the first time I tracked the RS 6 in the summer (always in fall or spring previously) and will likely be the last. No overheating problems but the car just doesn't feel near as quick. Morning sessions the car was smokin quick but by lunch time was slower and slower. I'll be sticking to cool season track times from here on out. :cheers:
Ben:addict:

[audirs6sport]

Yes. ESPECIALLY FORCED INDUCTION CARS. Hotter temp=less oxygen density volume.

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by Benman
Well after some track time I wanted to update everyone. All said got in over 100 track miles (yes I know, that's only 9 or 10 laps at the Nordschleife!).

The car definately has more of a rear wheel drive feel to it now. On the track it is much funner and tossable. If it actually adds or reduces the lap times I could'nt tell you as I did not have a transponder. I can tell you that I had a better time driving those laps and that's the point. It makes the RS 6 more fun to drive in a sporting environment.

In the long sweeping turn 2 (for those who have been there) the car squats down and digs in and a higher speed can be maintained vrs before. In the turn 3-5 complex the car has a better weight transfer and does not get as out of shape as before. And another big difference was in the final turn 9. A huge decreasing radius turn where you enter at big speeds and eventually have to brake right before you hit the front straight. Before I never could get the courage to get the car much over 110 but this time after some laps was trying 120 (more experience definately counts). Overall I think the bars work great. Carbon Lord said it best that you should try it first before passing judgement based on hear say. So far a very good value factor. Combined with the lightweight SSRs and R compound tires The RS 6 was a very quick car around the track (especially for such a big pig:D ).

Just an observation. It kind of goes without saying that turbo cars HATE the heat. The hotter the day got the slower the car got, and not by just a little. This was the first time I tracked the RS 6 in the summer (always in fall or spring previously) and will likely be the last. No overheating problems but the car just doesn't feel near as quick. Morning sessions the car was smokin quick but by lunch time was slower and slower. I'll be sticking to cool season track times from here on out. :cheers:
Ben:addict:
Nice to hear that the bars seems to work out well.
What r-compound did you have on, and did they work god?
Did it go over 120c and starting to hit limp mode?
One ide i had was to change my engine oil to one better i did and i think its now not comming up to 120c as fast as before.(its of course colder now im awere of that. But its fore sure not geting worse)

[Benman]

Originally posted by 8:29 RS6
Nice to hear that the bars seems to work out well.
What r-compound did you have on, and did they work god?
Did it go over 120c and starting to hit limp mode?
One ide i had was to change my engine oil to one better i did and i think its now not comming up to 120c as fast as before.(its of course colder now im awere of that. But its fore sure not geting worse)

8:29 RS6,

I was using Toyo RA-1s. Because of the fact they do not meet Audis heavy load rating I refrain from recommending them but they have worked great for me. When speaking to the rep he noted the key would be to watch the PSI. After a hot lap it should be right @ 40 PSI. I believe it was yourself who mentioned that your Corsa blew at @ 52-55PSI. If the Toyos reached that level they would likely do the same. With extensive use I have yet to get them over 45PSI. Depending on the track my starting levels from lt frt to lt rr are 29/31/32/32. I go up or down from there depending on feel or ending pressure/ heat. However, throw all this out the window when applying this to the Nordschleife as it is HELL on ALL TIRES!!!!:D

As for limp mode that is what it felt like. As soon as the performance loss started to get bad I new my day would go better to end things a little early (temp was @ 2/3rds).:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[avdh]

Originally posted by Benman


Just an observation. It kind of goes without saying that turbo cars HATE the heat. The hotter the day got the slower the car got, and not by just a little. This was the first time I tracked the RS 6 in the summer (always in fall or spring previously) and will likely be the last. No overheating problems but the car just doesn't feel near as quick. Morning sessions the car was smokin quick but by lunch time was slower and slower. I'll be sticking to cool season track times from here on out. :cheers:
Ben:addict:

Friends of mine have fitted "Aquamist" water injection to their S2's and RS2's with great sucess.
They manage inlet temperatures below ambient temperature with W/I on days where without W/I the inlet temperatures rise to in excess of 60 DC (144F)

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

[minimad]

Ben,

Any update?

[Benman]

Originally posted by minimad
Ben,

Any update?
Sorry for the LONG delay. I'm still waiting for Mark to give me the release date of the bars. It was supposed to be a month ago but I have yet to hear a final date. I now have the final bars on my car and they work really well, but I've been waiting to post till I had a definate date. As soon as I know I'll post it.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[minimad]

Originally posted by Benman
Sorry for the LONG delay. I'm still waiting for Mark to give me the release date of the bars. It was supposed to be a month ago but I have yet to hear a final date. I now have the final bars on my car and they work really well, but I've been waiting to post till I had a definate date. As soon as I know I'll post it.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

Ben,
thks for the info, how many versions of H-Sport sway bar you tested before the final one? What are the significant changes to the previous ones?

[Benman]

Originally posted by minimad
Ben,
thks for the info, how many versions of H-Sport sway bar you tested before the final one? What are the significant changes to the previous ones?
Two before the final one. The first was a 2mm increase over the standard A6 increase they offer. The second one was the same size but different bend schedule (for better fit, old needed spacer).

Final version is identical to the second, just no longer prototype, final production version. I still do not have a release date though, sorry. It would seem it's much more profitable for companies to work on vehicles with far more volume (i.e. Scion, Honda, Toyota, VW) vs limited cars like the RS 6. They rush on cars like the Scion tC and the Mini because you litterally have TENS of THOUSANDS of kids lining up to buy their stuff vs the MAYBE 50 or so RS 6 owners that want to upgrade. I guess I can't blame them, just wish they were ready for delivery:cry:

Ben:addict:

[minimad]

how about the weight compares to OEM?

[Benman]

Originally posted by minimad
how about the weight compares to OEM?
I know for sure that they are lighter but not sure on the exact figures.

Ben:addict:

[JP4]

Originally posted by Benman
I know for sure that they are lighter but not sure on the exact figures.

Ben:addict:

FWIW...Front bar is 3 pounds lighter than OEM. Didn't weigh the rear bar because it didn't "feel" much different.

[Benman]

Originally posted by JP4
FWIW...Front bar is 3 pounds lighter than OEM. Didn't weigh the rear bar because it didn't "feel" much different.
Thanks for the stats.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

[Benman]

A LONG time comming, but this is now on their website in case some didn't know:
http://www.h-sport.com/cgi-bin/EDCstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=22827

Jimmy also has this set up and is happy with it as well.

Ben:addict:

[minimad]

great information, has to place my order immediately, too many demands...:MTM:

[iconcls]

Has anybody had the H Sport set-up on the track yet? Feedback?

[JP4]

Originally posted by iconcls
Has anybody had the H Sport set-up on the track yet? Feedback?

Hopefully next month! :incar:

[Benman]

Originally posted by iconcls
Has anybody had the H Sport set-up on the track yet? Feedback?
Yep. Jimmy and myself have both had the opportunity to test out the bars on track.

It gives the car a noticeably better turn in with less body roll. Helps mostly settle the car on the longer duration turns but as well in the hairpins. On turn two at Willow Springs (fastest track in the West), it really has a settling feel to it where the car seems to hunker down better. Turns 3-5 where shifting bodyweight is involved, it gives away less body roll during the weight transfer.

It's not a complete suspension overhaul, but for the $$$, IMHO, it's the best bang for buck.

And BTW, ride quality on street is dang close to stock. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[JP4]

Originally posted by Benman
Yep. Jimmy and myself have both had the opportunity to test out the bars on track.

It gives the car a noticeably better turn in with less body roll. Helps mostly settle the car on the longer duration turns but as well in the hairpins. On turn two at Willow Springs (fastest track in the West), it really has a settling feel to it where the car seems to hunker down better. Turns 3-5 where shifting bodyweight is involved, it gives away less body roll during the weight transfer.

It's not a complete suspension overhaul, but for the $$$, IMHO, it's the best bang for buck.

And BTW, ride quality on street is dang close to stock. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

I concur with this observation from limited testing that I've done on the on and off ramps around town. As mentioned above won't have input from track until next month.

JP4 :incar: