Driven: Audi RS6 Plus (and Porsche 997 Carrera S)

[Erik]

In the market for a new car?

Do you prefer a sporty car that is comfortable, or a comfortable car that is sporty? :vhmmm:
That's kind of what the evolution of Porsche and Audi has given us with the new 991 and the RS6 Plus.

The new Porsche 997 is comfortable, almost too comfortable.
It feels almost like driving any other car at legal speeds.
I wonder if many customers wouldn't prefer something more difficult to drive, something more “evil.” I personally wouldn’t mind if more of that lovely sound from the boxer six was allowed to enter the car.
The car we drove has ceramic brakes, PCCB, and simply put they are fantastic!
Once you have tried them it is hard not to buy anything else. But since they are an option
costing about the same as a brand new Hyundai Atos :bigeyes: some might be a bit reluctant to get them…
The interior is brand new, but looks familiar. If you have seen the inside of a Cayenne you will see a lot of similarities.

Only 999 Audi RS6 Plus will be made. :cool2: According to our sources they are all sold, but go looking at car dealers in Europe (Germany) to find one.
Compared to the standard RS6 there are a few changes like special outside and inside color and material combinations. The engine has been tuned to 480 hp and the maximum torque is now available at a wider range. The car is limited to 280 km/h and will get there faster than the an ordinary RS6 for sure. Those extra horses do make a change. This car is made for the left lane on Autobahn. :incar:

Inside the RS6 the most appreciated news is the new DVD-Navi with 6.5” Widescreen.
Behind the screen you can find slots for MMC-/SD-cards so you can play mp3s.
News we like for sure!

Racing 0 – 200 km/h they Porsche 997 gets a small lead of less than one second. The RS6 Plus is always close in the rear view mirror.
One small mistake :incar: :trash: or some water :snow: on the road will certainly make it difficult for the Porsche-driver to win.

Among the competitors in the “Avant-league” we note MB E55T AMG with 476 hp.
Porsche Cayenne with 450 hp. If you want a BMW you will have to settle with :harass: 333 hp.

With 480 hp the Audi RS6 Plus is the most powerful wagon ever made! :wo:


There are more PICTURES and COMMENTS in this THREAD (http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=33586#post33586) :thumb:


:addict: +



http://www.rs6.com/pics/RS6Plus/RS6-Plus-102.jpghttp://www.rs6.com/pics/RS6Plus/RS6-Plus-103.jpg

[nene]

Things I really want:

1. A set of the PCCB setup all around on my RS6. ...OR... a set of Brembo GTR kit all around.

2. The new Navi system that is on the RS6+. Heck, I think I can make it work. Shouldn't be much different from regular Navi, and folks have done installs themselves. Now, if I could only find out where to get it, and how much! Must call Zev@AvalonMotorsports.

3. Heard that Porsche is making a Turbo S. This one will come with PCCB standard. Now that got me thinking...should I go or should I wait?

I think I'm done for now. Feeling the wallet lose weight as I type.

[Nordschleife]

Erik
Don't listen to the dealer about PCCB - they are still shit, you were driving a car with very few kilometers. Drive the 997 hard for several thousand kilometers and the brakes will fail - no ifs, ands or buts. These brakes are only for cruising, forget hard driving, forget track days, forget the autobahn. I get better retardation with my ferrous rotors. The only benefit of ceramic composite is a reduction in unsprung weight.
Yes, they are being put on next year's Supercup cars, but they only drive a very short distance.
For production cars, Porsche has made two big mistakes, PCCB and PCCC, however, the people who manage the company today have inherited all the arrogance of the past with none of the humility, so they will do whatever it takes to force PCCB down the customers' throats. If you don't believe me, read the Porsche publicity releases from 1999, when PCCB was first available.

R+C

[nene]

I do want to believe you Nords, but I will check into this for sure.

I read an article recently that does confirm what you are saying, but I was not sure if it was just someone putting down the technology because it was too expensive, considering the little benefits it provides.

In my case I guess it would be ok as I don't track the car nor do we have an Autobahn. But, you still want good stuff for the beast!

Thanks bro.

[7:53 RS6]

I think if someone order these PCCB to Carrera S it will add to the prise somthing like 8600 eur. Well thats moore or les ok the car costs a lot anyway.

What is totaly crazy is that if you use them up and are buying new then its rely a killer price 21500eur.

Anyway i did read this some where a while back and dont know for sure if its correct or was at the time. Please check it.

But my guess is its not plenty on stock if used up.

Its like the plasma tv, in time if PCCB hits the market they go down of course.

After spendig a hole day whit proffesional racedrivers on track i think my stock works even better. I guess i was a litel bit to agressiv on them:D

[nene]

You are correct. When it comes time to replace the PCCB package, it was very expensive. The magazine did quote something like 22 large USD (aka $22K)! Not sure which is correct, but regardless, that is a lot of money.

I guess the same is to be said for thos Electric cars. The battery replacement will cost more then the car, once it goes bad.
As with any new technology, lots of kinks to be worked out over a period of time.
And if you are an early adopter, you will suffer while those kinks are being worked on, and your wallet will suffer even more!



...Okay Santa,...please remove me from the PCCB wish list.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Erik
Don't listen to the dealer about PCCB - they are still shit, you were driving a car with very few kilometers. Drive the 997 hard for several thousand kilometers and the brakes will fail - no ifs, ands or buts. These brakes are only for cruising, forget hard driving, forget track days, forget the autobahn.
R+C

Nice write up Erik.:0:

Nordschleife,

I take it you preffer Movits?

Regards
Ben:addict:

[Nordschleife]

Ben
For the street I prefer ferrous brakes. You know, you can't get a warranty on after market PCCB style rotors, which makes them unsalable in the EU. No vendor can afford to sell them. I can get them, but for cash only, no invoice and therefore no warranty.
The only benefit is the reduction in unsprung weight, everthing else is downside.
From Porsche's point of view putting these rotors on cars in the Supercup makes sense, the punters see them racing, it doesn't cost much to subsidise the race teams as the Cup races are quite short and they are unlikely to get through many sets. If they want to, PAG can even integrate temperature probes into the data logging system to help build up the data base on rotor performance.
R+C

[Klint]

Nord,

We have a deposit down on a Turbo S, where we'll choose the spec in November (!!!) and the build date is February (!!!) - got any ideas of dealing with the PCCB fiasco?

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by Klint
Nord,

We have a deposit down on a Turbo S, where we'll choose the spec in November (!!!) and the build date is February (!!!) - got any ideas of dealing with the PCCB fiasco?

Klint

The final specification is not set in concrete yet.

Your choice of rotors is going to be governed by the wheels you select, to an extent. The long distance racing rotors from the GT3 RSR are a possibility, or the GT1 long distance rotors, if they will fit. You must fit different pads as well, that is most important.

If you speak carefully to your dealer about this, you may be able to get that set up from the factory. I would just as soon have the car delivered straight from the factory to Ruf, so they can finish the car the way it was supposed to be equipped.

You should point out to PGB, or PUK, or whatever they are called, that you live on a race track and don't want protracted arguments about warranty claims in the future.

R+C

[Klint]

R+C,

I praise you for your outstanding knowledge base and eagerness to help others by sharing that invaluable knowledge on this messageboard, it never ceases to amaze me. :thumb:

We were considering visiting DMS Automotive for the 550bhp upgrade after the article that was featured in EVO magazine some months back. RUF will make the ideal alternative - their website doesn't even give a vague idea of what they can do and at what costs?...:confused:

[McBurn4ever]

http://mcburn4ever.com/997cs/

:race:

[AlanN]

I can confirm what Nordschleife says, my 996 Turbo X50 initially had PCCB, I had them removed :mech: and the original Brembos fitted.
Miles better, and I'm including some track work in the equation too :incar:

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by AlanN
I can confirm what Nordschleife says, my 996 Turbo X50 initially had PCCB, I had them removed :mech: and the original Brembos fitted.
Miles better, and I'm including some track work in the equation too :incar:

And I can quote what the worksmanager Lieb HP at RUF told me a few days ago. And this guy has been on Porsche for a long time, then RUF then TecArt and now back at RUF.

And i quote" I can destroy a set up of normal Porsche rotors in one day at Hockenheim, and PCCB in 2 days. They last longer.

As i said before also, all breakes no matter how big or highpreforming can be destroyed easely if used wrong.

Look at what happend to my stock pads when driving R-tiers.(Pagid was on order but dident show up so i tracked anyway with stock pads ) and they totaly burned up.

As Lieb HP also called BÖSE said, PCCB needs much more taking care of in terms of coling than normal rotors. And its hard to make peopel now this. But then it will last.

Of course i would never buy this anyway becuse when used up its to expensiv to buy new nowdays.

Rergads 8:29:)

[AlanN]

all breakes no matter how big or highpreforming can be destroyed easely if used wrong

I couldn't agree more :hihi:

Actually to clarify, I wasn't commenting on their longevity (which for the price I would certainly hope they last longer) but about their performance.
IMHO the Brembos perform much better.

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by AlanN
I couldn't agree more :hihi:

Actually to clarify, I wasn't commenting on their longevity (which for the price I would certainly hope they last longer) but about their performance.
IMHO the Brembos perform much better.

I dont think price and longlasting has anything to do to whit ethother in this case. Its a new market produkt, if its make it in to market for real price comming down.

I have never tried PCCB, so please enlighten me. Why is brembo normal preform better?

[Nordschleife]

The only upside to the PCCBs is the weight, or rather the lack of it.

There are lots of Porsche owners who believed Poische's claims that the PCCBs were good for 100,000 km when they were introdiced at Frankfurt in 1999. However, anybody who drives the car at all hard learns that the rotors do not stand up to prolonged use.
Also they are usually very noisy.
To make matters worse, Porsche has changed the PCCB rotor composition to such an extent that they no longer outperform the best metal rotors.
H-P is enough of a Porsche person and salesman to talk up the PCCB rotors. Ruf do take a lot of trouble to ventilate their rotors, so that is why he gets better performance than a lot of people.
Porsche is a very successful company, it also can behave with unbeliievable arrogance4. talk to people who have had problems with their PCCB rotors, they have seen the arrogant side.
The fact that these rotors are being used on the 205 GT3 Cup cars does not mean the problems have been fixed. Thzey should be great in an environment whrer unsprung weight is the enemy and rotors are just another race weekend consumable.
Ruf cars are often driven in a very sporting way. The average owner of a new Ruf Turbo is not going to get too upset about replacing expensive brake rotors, he has been warned.

R+C

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
The only upside to the PCCBs is the weight, or rather the lack of it.

There are lots of Porsche owners who believed Poische's claims that the PCCBs were good for 100,000 km when they were introdiced at Frankfurt in 1999. However, anybody who drives the car at all hard learns that the rotors do not stand up to prolonged use.
Also they are usually very noisy.
To make matters worse, Porsche has changed the PCCB rotor composition to such an extent that they no longer outperform the best metal rotors.
H-P is enough of a Porsche person and salesman to talk up the PCCB rotors. Ruf do take a lot of trouble to ventilate their rotors, so that is why he gets better performance than a lot of people.
Porsche is a very successful company, it also can behave with unbeliievable arrogance4. talk to people who have had problems with their PCCB rotors, they have seen the arrogant side.
The fact that these rotors are being used on the 205 GT3 Cup cars does not mean the problems have been fixed. Thzey should be great in an environment whrer unsprung weight is the enemy and rotors are just another race weekend consumable.
Ruf cars are often driven in a very sporting way. The average owner of a new Ruf Turbo is not going to get too upset about replacing expensive brake rotors, he has been warned.

R+C

H-P did not accually talk up the PCCB. Just saying that PCCB would last if peopel just would know that they need more coling than a normal rotor. My guess is most peopel with PCCB is that they just smash on them couse they think it cant be destroyed. Then of course they will and the angry call is not far a way.

Do you mean that RUF make an selfmade ventilation on the PCCB or they just use porsches PCCB?

Im sure loking forword to try PCCB some time.Im not puting any own experience on this one couse i havent tried them yet. Just qoting H.P as you know im lerning by doing.

[Nordschleife]

Ruf does improve the ventilation of the brakes, compared to the standard road cars.

R+C

[7:53 RS6]

When BMW made M5 E60 they tested ceramics rotor and came to the conclusion. Steel leads away heat better. Under the same workload the steeal rotor got 600c. Ceramic got 1200c. To make the temp go down(be the same as steeal) it was neaded to make the ceramic rotor even bigger in material and then the wight would go up and not giving any advantige to ceramics beeing light.

This confirm what Mr H-P at Ruf said i guess. The PCCB neads realy much coling down if used hard, much more than steeal rotor. If not it take some serius beating geting real hot and not coled what i understand. If taking care right they would last longer than steeal.(well i have not tried)
Whats intresting on M5 is the floting calipers(like rotors). What i understand if the rotor is geting whraped on M5 the calipers are as said floting and adjust. So i guess you wont even feel the whraped rotor cuse of this. On my beast i did you bet, but i got new rotors from Audi.

[SpinEcho]

Warped rotors are not the usual cause for brake vibration. It's uneven pad deposition. I think it's a cheap joke that BMW refuses to install fixed calipers on their M models. I see no evidence that their decision has resulted in fewer problems with vibration. Virtually all other high-end European manufacturers use fixed calipers on their top-of-the-line vehicles. Porsche uses them on all their cars. Are they all wrong?

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by SpinEcho
Warped rotors are not the usual cause for brake vibration. It's uneven pad deposition. I think it's a cheap joke that BMW refuses to install fixed calipers on their M models. I see no evidence that their decision has resulted in fewer problems with vibration. Virtually all other high-end European manufacturers use fixed calipers on their top-of-the-line vehicles. Porsche uses them on all their cars. Are they all wrong?

BMW is just cheap!

Good brakes are expensive, very few car tests give scores for retardation in track or real world conditions, so its easy to save cost here.

How do they get away with this, well remember most of the test drivers are extremely good, they are driving well within themselves when they are doing their proving laps. Well, there is a tendency when doing this to be as frugal as possible, don't set off the ABS, don't activate the ESP, keep off the curbs, look after the tyres, stay in as high a gear as possible. These guys are on a high speed cruise, the bulk of the eventual customers do not approach this level of driving sophistication.

R+C

[7:53 RS6]

I agree its rarly a person driving RS6 or E55 or simular cars in a way so the rotors get warped. Well there are bad sampels of rotors out ther as in all things. That sort of cars are most used for crusin or driving fast on motorway. And the most owners of these cars often change rotors pads etc long before the critical points. So they never run a rotor so worn down that it easy gets warped cuse it cant take heat anymore beeing to thin.

Its intressting to see my back rotors, they are under minimum alowans and they get hot like nothing else on the planet now.

(Its not in my mind of course to leave the back rotor to Audi and wanting a new one just so you know, but my front was brand new and warped after ca. 3500km!)

When back was new you could hardly get them hot, so they really get beating when worn down of course. I let them sit on over vinter becuse im just crusin then anyway and change to spring. Warped rotors is more common on cheap cars worked hard on track or streeat all time. Like car that never is buildt in a sporty way. For ex the regular SIXT rental car smahed a round nurburgring will have some problems with warped rotors.

Uneven pad deposition. I never had on any car i had but i heard of it never seen it. Did not know that BMW have a otspoken problem with vibration on their cars comming from the breakes.

Dont know if Porsch is wrong or right all i know peopel is always going to talk down things on cars. And by all means they should do and its part of the fun at this place among other things, and we are all the experts here(irony).Ha, Ha(me included of course)
I mean if the floting caliper is so bad how come ouer RS6 caliper also is shit. As some is saying here. Are not RS6 fixed(brembo)?

Its often the guys that soon is going to track their car or have tracked it once or twice or have a friend that have done it some times. Its always that part of the group that for exampel is saying the breakes on my car is shit, i neead the biggest upgrade ther is. My breakes cant take the heat, they are fading me all the time etc ,etc.

My RS6 breakes have never given up on me(except stock pads melted driving R-tiers a few laps at Nurburgring, and was fading as well at the time but not to strange. No good qualiti oil in breake system i must blame as well) But when driving stock tier around many track there was never any problems what so ever.

We cant just talk down the cars all the time and it parts. But we should also be critical to ouer selfs and the way we drive and how we are using things. I was in the computer bussines many years back, and the tecknichans in sweden had a saying when many where new in the game. Peopel always call teck and said my PC is shit and this is wrong and this as well.

Teck saying was, nothing is wrong except its shit in front of the screen.(or steeringwheel if you like)

Nothing of this i wright i hope is taken personaly cuse its not my intantion just want to bring it out.

And one thing is fore sure its not always like expensiv things are better than less expensiv things.

Do not forget that many cars is tested and some developed on Nurburgring so they are just not putting on shit on the cars we are talking about at this forum anyway, if they would the cars should even not make it round the track in testing period.

How come Sabine (ring taxi) never fading the breakes around. But still is going fast. So much talk it has been that M5 E39 breakes are shit as well. Now E60 gets its share. Just some car mags have driven it and said some thing about the breakes and its shit as well. Even almost no one have driven it.

And of course BMW Porsche and more exists becuse they are making money and thats not beeing cheap. Its a big differens

[SpinEcho]

Originally posted by 8:29 RS6
(Its not in my mind of course to leave the back rotor to Audi and wanting a new one just so you know, but my front was brand new and warped after ca. 3500km!)..............Uneven pad deposition. I never had on any car i had but i heard of it never seen it..............I mean if the floting caliper is so bad how come ouer RS6 caliper also is shit. As some is saying here. Are not RS6 fixed(brembo)?.................How come Sabine (ring taxi) never fading the breakes around.............And of course BMW Porsche and more exists becuse they are making money and thats not beeing cheap. Its a big differens

Did you see for yourself that your rotors were warped? You might find this link very illuminating:

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

No-one said that floating calipers are "so bad". It's just that fixed calipers are rigid, and give better pedal feel and modulation. This is of questionable benefit to most road car drivers. However, it seems that more and more companies are seeing fit to equip their cars this way. Even mid-range 'prestige' cars such as the Volvo S60R and the Infiniti G35/Skyline have fixed calipers.

Yes the RS6 front calipers are fixed. Why they are inadequate has been addressed before on this forum. The basic problem is overheating of pads due to insufficient surface area, and insufficient rotor cooling because of the rotor design.

Re: the Ring Taxi, see Nord's comments above.

Re: BMW making money - I don't think it would substantially cut into their profits to put fixed calipers and well-designed, floating discs on their M cars!

[freerider]

you guys are all talking about which is the right setup and what's good and wrong. I can agree on that one, but that there are people talking about wrongly using brakes? I don't think you can use brakes wrong. They just need to do what they're made for...stopping the car, as fast as possible. There's no but here. If I have to stop very hard, and thereby use the brakes in the wrong way and they would give up on me, they just are bad brakes. It's a simple task isn't?

What I do know about ceramic brakes is that they light up when you brake hard enough and catch fire when used intensly.
This can also been seen on the episode of top gear, where they test the SLR.

I ment no offense whatsoever with all of this. Just my opinion.

Greetz Johan

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by freerider
you guys are all talking about which is the right setup and what's good and wrong. I can agree on that one, but that there are people talking about wrongly using brakes? I don't think you can use brakes wrong. They just need to do what they're made for...stopping the car, as fast as possible. There's no but here. If I have to stop very hard, and thereby use the brakes in the wrong way and they would give up on me, they just are bad brakes. It's a simple task isn't?

What I do know about ceramic brakes is that they light up when you brake hard enough and catch fire when used intensly.
This can also been seen on the episode of top gear, where they test the SLR.

I ment no offense whatsoever with all of this. Just my opinion.

Greetz Johan

Well on street i think no on is really complaining about RS6 breakes and you can smash on them in emergency situations and its ok. But on track its totally diffrent and you can fore sure use breakes wrong and make them not preform. See link spin eco put out Myts 3. Thats what im meaning about overbreaked breakes anyway interesting link wich i read before. Try to answer eco to morgen, geting late.

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by 8:29 RS6
Well on street i think no on is really complaining about RS6 breakes and you can smash on them in emergency situations and its ok. But on track its totally diffrent and you can fore sure use breakes wrong and make them not preform. See link spin eco put out Myts 3. Thats what im meaning about overbreaked breakes anyway interesting link wich i read before. Try to answer eco to morgen, geting late.

Forgott to show you my rotor glowing, its a bad pic but it shows
Rotors will glow if used hard. But its not the same as they are not working they can take a lot of heat, but stock breake oil cant.
http://www.revline.se/album/Gotland_Ring/slides/DSC01592.html

[freerider]

Yes I know what you mean, but what I'm trying to say is that manufacturers need to take more care about something so important. Whatever the driver does, they need to perform. Even the cheapest cars should have good brakes.

Greetz Johan

ps: link is dead at the moment

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by SpinEcho
Did you see for yourself that your rotors were warped? You might find this link very illuminating:

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

No-one said that floating calipers are "so bad". It's just that fixed calipers are rigid, and give better pedal feel and modulation. This is of questionable benefit to most road car drivers. However, it seems that more and more companies are seeing fit to equip their cars this way. Even mid-range 'prestige' cars such as the Volvo S60R and the Infiniti G35/Skyline have fixed calipers.

Yes the RS6 front calipers are fixed. Why they are inadequate has been addressed before on this forum. The basic problem is overheating of pads due to insufficient surface area, and insufficient rotor cooling because of the rotor design.
Re: the Ring Taxi, see Nord's comments above.

Re: BMW making money - I don't think it would substantially cut into their profits to put fixed calipers and well-designed, floating discs on their M cars!


I want to point out that my main saying is on the breakes of RS6 and them not being that bad as some say. I did agree that its not normal with warped rotors(but it has hapend) and i also mentioned that i heard about uneven paddisposal. I have read at stoptech before, its even been up here some where i think before. And it fore sure interesting to read and many things i said is backed up by stoptec link.

Overbreaked system and oil and harder pads is neaded to work proper and even macine or take of pad disposal of rotor and bed in proper(se my Blacks pagid thread)

What i understand its a lot of resech of Termisk Pulsation on breakes what stopteck and we are talking about.

And i tell you im not the man doing it, if we are happy we have someone on the bord that do but i doubt it. But anyway its no one in Sweden driving their RS6 so hard i do, and on track as much as i do. And ther are more than one in this contrey for sure.

To aswer your question we did not set my rotor up and looked at it in macine and mesure it,(but have done before and macined as well) but even if we did it could have shown some off balanse mesurments even if not warped cuse of there could be pads disposal. Now this is up to the guys at workshop to tell me, but was not ther this time. Went to Audi and they did agree on my saying and changed it, and i hope they chek things before just handing out new thing to me.

If not and the case was i just did not bed in rotor proberly and Audi just handing out rotor and they should not do so if i made wrong braking in. Now i did breake in this rotor as i breaked in my new Blacks pagid. And we also tried with different pads but still bad. And this time it was not geting beter over time it has before. So my conclutions was it was warped even this early, when it happens its normally when rotor is used up and cant take heat as it can when new and thick.

But hey maybe i did wrong or maybe it was a bad rotor as me and Audi think. Of course its geting me thinking as well cuse i have really driven 2 other setups of rotors really hard and glowing them both but not warped and they was fine for a long time.
Once again i backs up my saying that its also up to us that drives and breakes if the breakes preformes on track and get pad disposal on them or not, or breake to much and boil the system. etc, etc

You say" Why they are inadequate has been addressed before on this forum. The basic problem is overheating of pads due to insufficient surface area, and insufficient rotor cooling because of the rotor design."
And this is intresting peopel pas away this thing all the time, and i have read it here aswell. But could it be that this is just read by some one as well and just passed on here whit out hands on experience of it on RS6?? And then the ball is in roll!

This things is basicly whriten on many places.

But can i ask you what kind of problems the RS6 breakes have made for you, in what way are the so bad? As said before i have tracked my car plenty and never once i did fading in street tiers and never the breakes have not worked even driving Gotland ring on glowing rotors so you have to understund that i am wondering.

Regards RS6
(ps if text is seen as bad tone or hard to understand please its my english) Bad tone is not my intention! DS

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by freerider
Yes I know what you mean, but what I'm trying to say is that manufacturers need to take more care about something so important. Whatever the driver does, they need to perform. Even the cheapest cars should have good brakes.

Greetz Johan

ps: link is dead at the moment

Its working now!
Regards RS6

[Benman]

Originally posted by freerider
Yes I know what you mean, but what I'm trying to say is that manufacturers need to take more care about something so important. Whatever the driver does, they need to perform. Even the cheapest cars should have good brakes.

Greetz Johan


Johan,

I agree that the brakes on a vehicle should be more than just adequate, but you must remember that it is all cost relative. After all, a really good set of Movits cost almost as much as a base model Hyundai!!!:bigeyes: :bigeyes: So remember that no matter how great the car they still consider things like profit:D

[SpinEcho]

Originally posted by 8:29 RS6
But could it be that this is just read by some one as well and just passed on here whit out hands on experience of it on RS6?? And then the ball is in roll!.............

But can i ask you what kind of problems the RS6 breakes have made for you, in what way are the so bad? As said before i have tracked my car plenty and never once i did fading in street tiers and never the breakes have not worked even driving Gotland ring on glowing rotors so you have to understund that i am wondering.

As you say, I have only read reports of the RS6's brake problems. Not having tracked the car, I have never experienced severe fade or pad fires like some people. The worst I've gotten is some mild fade after spirited driving. I don't intend to track the car in the future, and I think the brakes as they stand are more than up to the task of my driving style on local roads. But I see no reason to doubt bad reports of the RS6's brakes. It's a heavy car, and a road car, and you can't expect it to have brakes suitable for racing. Maybe the reports of fried brakes after Autobahn driving are also correct. The rotor design clearly does not allow for efficient cooling.

As for your English, no worries! I have no trouble understanding you. That's what makes this forum so much fun - it has a unique, international perspective.

[andrei]

Originally posted by nene
Things I really want:

1. A set of the PCCB setup all around on my RS6. ...OR... a set of Brembo GTR kit all around.

2. The new Navi system that is on the RS6+.


Brembo (or Movit) same egg, different angle:p
you'll need it only if you plan to drive 280-0-280-0 for 30 minuts or more..right, after 4 serious brakings the car starts floating a little. real fun to see the brakes glow dark red as they heat up. will try to post a pic next time. but this alone will cost you well over 5K - you'll need a bigger disks of course, 19 or even 20 in wheels...shielded pipes, etc. Change is a must for hard driving.. You'll realise it the moment you see your pads smoke. I did and it was scary. But then again you have this fixed in PLUS - perforated, better ventilated brakes.

NAVI is a dvd based - unlike to old one that was CD. i have one and its cool if working (i have an older version DVD thus didnt have chance to check)

Ceramic brakes...hmm if you think of how much time you drive..and how much time you'll need to heat them up.. just a gimmick from Porsche..

have fun emptying your wallet - RS6 is like an expensive girl - always needs morrre:applause: and gives you so much in return!
and forgive my spelling, i'm russian:bow:

[7:53 RS6]

Originally posted by andrei
Change is a must for hard driving.. You'll realise it the moment you see your pads smoke. I did and it was scary. But then again you have this fixed in PLUS - perforated, better ventilated brakes.

Ceramic brakes...hmm if you think of how much time you drive..and how much time you'll need to heat them up.. just a gimmick from Porsche..

have fun emptying your wallet - RS6 is like an expensive girl - always needs morrre:applause: and gives you so much in return!
and forgive my spelling, i'm russian:bow:
__________________________________________________ __
Do you mean change of breake setup is needed becuse of driving to hard or being to hard on the breakes and smoking stock pads? Do not forget they are stock pads!

Or do you mean you will join VLN at nurburgring next year in RS6. Well I to would think of changing breakes around then and maybe take out 400kg of the car, or in the end think again and join VLN in a diffrent car instead.

Change pads and breake oil motul 600/steeal lines and think of how the breakes are used and you are fine. And welcome to the board as well.

Try to smoke black pagid pads and i whish you best of luck!
Or try to heat up by driving hard Motul 600 to its boiling point and make it fade, you will se it can take more than your regular stock breake oil. Not saying you can not fade Motul600 if you overbreake.

I have same rotors as Plus and if rotors are drilled holes in them it do not change the fact that you can smoke stock pads if you like. Its more likely that drilled rotors eat slightly more pad than non drilled/non slotted.

Drilled rotor will also glow easy if driving hard or breaking hard.
I would stick out my head a bit and say crossed drilled rotors are just hanging from past and not preform better than slotted.


Sure it look cool whit drilled and sure they get some wheigt of the rotor and bite better in rain, than no slotted/drilled rotor do intantly anyway. A rotors main colling is from the inside construction. Also not same amount stress cracks on slotted as on drilled. And the hols just get filled in whit pad disposal all time. I would rather have slotted rotors on my car anyway. (yes i know Porsche and most others have drilled)

Almost all stock pads sitting on streeat cars are for many logical reason to soft fore inspierd driving.

And most importent to remember is that all breakes/rotors even movit or what ever can be destroyed if you put your mind in just doing that alone.

As far as your comment about ceramics, I would take my chanses to say you have not tested them. I must say i have not. And untill i do I being easy on talking them down. But of course i read as well what is said and hear things.



:cheers:

[SpinEcho]

Agreed. Cross-drilling (and slotting) do next to nothing for cooling. Slots over holes every time, for the reasons you said.

[CRIMOR]

Well 997 and RS6 Plus are two fantastic cars...but I think they are not confrontable because they are too much different...It isn't a problem of power the difference...but the pleasure of drive in different conditions.

[7:53 RS6]

New Ferarri 430 whit its new ceramics rotors should be abel to make 350 extra laps at Fiorana compered to the normal rotors?. Well I do not know anything about the material mix in these rotors compered to say Porsche PCCB.

[andrei]

yeah right guess, mate, I havent tried ceramics:)
I dont think i would want to in fact - only as a new thing on smbdy else's car.
I drive another car - a z06 corvette, and there i have installed slotted disks. I love the hissing sound they make and the fact that brakes have stopped to "scream". that was the only visible improvement - pads are cleaned better.

One way or another, on a drag race stock brakes are a little unstable. One way or another, cast iron is cast iron and the only way tht I know to improve the thing is to increase the radius.

Oh and what do they have on a new BMW M5?