High Speed Handling

[Aronis]

Well, I have finally decided to start this thread.

I have been driving my RS6 on dry roads all summer and getting more comfortable pushing it's limits.

I have a solid recollection of the cornering of my 1997 M3 luxury which I drove for 5 years, and drove it hard.

I have been finding that perhaps my old M3 handled better than my RS6. When I drive over 80 or 90 on the same twisty roads I tore up with my M3, I don't feel as confident with the RS6. I know its heavier, and longer, etc, but I don't have a feel for it's limits. I have not yet pushed it to the point where I 'feel loss of steering input' which is something that I found first on my M3 with it's snow tires on it, and then in the summer pushed the Michelin Pilot Sports to that same feeling.

The RS6 seems to get floaty at high speeds and does not hunker down in the sweeping corners like the M3. Perhaps I am simply not trusting it yet.

I have not pushed to the point of any tire squeeling, which is probably tricky at 80 or 90, but I ran one road at 100 on a left hand sweeping turn and simply thought the 'trees are coming at me.'

Anyone reach that point of 'loss of steering input' with his/her RS6?

For those who don't know this term, it means the point where you loose resistance at the wheel. That is as you 'hold' the steering wheel 'turned' you get some resistance, such that if you let go of the wheel it wants to turn back straight. With loss of steering input, the steering wheel stops fighting back at you, and you are nearing the limits of adhesion of your tires. This can be very unnerving and if your car is 'unforgiving' at the limits you are very near crashing LOL. I found the M3 quite forgiving at this limit and had been able to hold a turn on an off ramp even at that point of lost steering input. Of course this particular off ramp had not trees or railing near by. LOL

Mike

[SpinEcho]

If I'm reading you right, one of your observations is that the RS6 gives you less feedback than the M3. This is not at all surprising, both from the point of view of the specific cars in question, and the manufacturers. Audis are not renowned for their steering feel, or any sort of feedback, for that matter. At least not in comparison to Bimmers. But I would expect the RS6 to have greater absolute grip than your old M3. It just wouldn't be as fun or as comfortable exploring the outer reaches of that grip.

(puts on flamesuit now)...

[keo]

Comparing cornering with M3 I guess there is no need to discuss further since it is totally 2 different spec. car. But one thing I experience driving the RS6 and e55 (since I think they are in the same class) is that the road holding and steering feedback of the RS6 is much better than e55. Yesterday, during an afternoon shower, I was having a little chase around with my friend's e55. Very obvious, in the wet, RS6 is superb......even my friend call my cell phone...hey...hold down to your horse......it's wet......:addict:

[eph94]

Originally posted by Aronis
Anyone reach that point of 'loss of steering input' with his/her RS6?

Yes. When you go into a corner too hot, the RS6 will definitely plow and understeer heavily. At the track, I swear that the E36 M3's with drivers of equal ability whip around the corners faster than I do, but that's just my subjective view. I don't have any objective data to support such a claim. However, given the weight of the RS6, I think it handles commendably. And the quattro helps a lot when you early apex and take the O.S. line through a corner. I suspect it is more forgiving that RWD. People are always surprised at my corner exit speeds for such a bulky sedan.

[JAXRS6]

To me, the surprise would be if the RS6 handled better, not the other way around. Reason: bias of weight towards the front.

BMWs are balanced, as any Bimmer salesman will tell you. Have you ever heard an Audi salesman brag about balance? They can't because it's not there, and I can't imagine that it will ever be there as long as Audi hangs its engines forward of the front axle (or axle line, if you prefer.) Does anyone know why they do that?

AWD can work wonders, wet or dry, for reasons often espoused. But there are limits to how much physics AWD can help defy, and it seems to me you are discovering that.

Size is another factor. Comparing the RS6 to an M5 makes more sense than asking it to compete in handling with an M3. And when was the last time you saw M5s at a track? But the M3 is common there.

If high speed handling in dry conditions was my top or only priority, I might prefer an M3, tho I can't say for sure because I've never driven one. I've never driven one because, for me, only four door sedans are of interest. And I favor AWD over RWD or FWD because it does offer handling & safety advantages for the type of driving I do.:thumb:

If Audi ever does combine balance with AWD ... well, it's hard to imagine how awesome such a vehicle would be!

[Matteus]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
To me, the surprise would be if the RS6 handled better, not the other way around. Reason: bias of weight towards the front.

BMWs are balanced, as any Bimmer salesman will tell you. Have you ever heard an Audi salesman brag about balance? They can't because it's not there, and I can't imagine that it will ever be there as long as Audi hangs its engines forward of the front axle (or axle line, if you prefer.) Does anyone know why they do that?



you are correct on that one. I think the main reason why they do that is because they can not mount the engine on top of the front differential. if they mount it in front of the front axle, they can keep the point of gravity (i think correct english) as low as possible.
I'm not sure about the non-V8-quattro's, but all the V8 FWD audi's ever made had this lay out. Now Audi has a lot of experience about putting they're famous 4.2 all the way to the front, but when the first Audi V8's came out, they had a rather 'strange' handling-reputation.

feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on something.

regards,

matteus

[Erik]

I think a lot of the problem (lack of feeling) has to do with weight.


RS6 / M3 E46
Slalom Course 36 / 110m 118 / 137 Km/h 123 / 136 Km/h

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp?useframe=comparison1_e.asp?Car1=53%26Ca r2=2

[gjg]

the conditions for that test were not exactly the same Erik:

Temperature (Air)

Audi test - 32 Degree Celsius
BMW test - 20 Degree Celsius

Temperature (Asphalt)
38 Degree Celsius
16 Degree Celsius

so the m3 looks better in comparation than it should .......

.. not that I am, even remotely, disputing the weight problem ....

:nono:

[Bauer]

Aronis-

I say take it to an Audi Club (formerly quattro club:rolleyes: ) event at the nearest track. That way you can push the car with some safety...not worring about trees. I am quite suprised at how well the car works for how heavy it is. I have found that the car is forgiving at the limits but to really take a corner fast you really need to approach it correctly and set it up right. It is controlable if you screw it up but needless to say you won't be fast. So far I have had no problem getting myself out of trouble if I have screwed up ....atleast not bad:D :D.

I have noticed that the car will push hard if not set up right before the corner. But if you hit it right and set the car it is a blast. That's just my feeling on the topic.:D.

Cheers

[Benman]

The car will push more than an M3 for sure. But as for overall handling I've had mine at and past the limit on several occassions and have found those limits to be quite high. As Bauer states the best place to explore those limits are at a driver event. None the less the Beast is amazing.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[Aronis]

The Feedback has been great!

I would like to check out an Audi driving event, could you schedule one in Malone NY??? LOL... Time is not on my side, I work every other weekend (as well as all week every week) and on call every other day, (as well as working a normal 60 hour work week, oh, ya plus weekends, D'ooh) so fun time is too little....waaa waaaa...

Oh well, I'll find a stretch of road with similar curve, but no OAK TREES LOLOLOL..

Mike