Video: CSL - M5 - RS6

[Hawk]

http://www.neuhofen.at/bmw/msm/w2.wmv

Edit by Erik: New mirror http://www.free4games.de/bmwdrivers/w2.wmv

[JavierNuvolari]

Nice vid:0: ...liked the sound of the CSL;)

Thanks for posting,

JavierNuvolari

[Erik]

Very interesting video. Thanks!

The RS6 seems to be the faster - but they are VERY even.

The extra 50 hp and torque my friend had in his RS6 Avant (Hohenester) when I raced an M5 on the autobahn made it SO MUCH easier to win. And in the E55 I was driving it was not even hard :dig:

[avdh]

To me it looks as if the M5 was faster, not the RS6.

In which case the RS6 must have been sick, becuase I can't beleive that a standard M5 can equal a supposively 500 bhp RS6, but then again I have seen an MTN RS6 be slower than a standard RS6....

Also it seems the RS6 was limited to 271, whereas neither of the bimmers were,....... hmmmmm....

[skazzy]

The link doesnt seem to be working for me??:confused:

[Sims]

Originally posted by skazzy
The link doesnt seem to be working for me??:confused:

Nor me - please help

[Erik]

Well - videos like these are usually only up for a few days.

Better hurry if you want to see. :hahahehe:

[Sims]

Originally posted by Erik
Well - videos like these are usually only up for a few days.

Better hurry if you want to see. :hahahehe:


So nice to be wise after the event. is there any way of ressurrecting the video?:)

[Erik]

Originally posted by PP
So nice to be wise after the event. is there any way of ressurrecting the video?:)

This is an external link - out of my control.
I have it on my hard drive but I have no ftp to upload it to - and the video is not mine. Copyright is probably not a problem, but I try to avoid breaking copyright rules whereever I can.

[Erik]

I found it in a new location:

http://www.free4games.de/bmwdrivers/w2.wmv

"Better hurry if you want to see"

[Sims]

Originally posted by Erik
I found it in a new location:

http://www.free4games.de/bmwdrivers/w2.wmv

"Better hurry if you want to see"

Eric

I hurried and I saw. Thanks very much. Obviously the 'test' was just a fun test and not hugely scientific, but it seems to that the 500ps M5 will be a handful for any RS6 owner. I quite like the CSL, for if this test was at the 'Ring, the CSL would no doubt be the fastest.

[nyrs6]

Three things could have happend here:
1. Alot of heat soake
2. M5 was modded
3. RS6 wasnt modded

there is no way an M5 could be fater then a chipped RS6 when the rs6 is running full power

[avdh]

Originally posted by nyrs6
Three things could have happend here:
1. Alot of heat soake
2. M5 was modded
3. RS6 wasnt modded

there is no way an M5 could be fater then a chipped RS6 when the rs6 is running full power

Yeah ! yeah I second your points 2 and 3

Why was the speed of the supposively 500 bhp RS6 limited to 271 km/h?, simply becuase it was standard and for all we know the DV's might have packed up....

[RobertV]

Looks like an early morning run on the autobahn.
Gotta love it:thumb:
That CSL is fast

[TaTaPiRaTa]

Originally posted by Erik
Very interesting video. Thanks!

The RS6 seems to be the faster - but they are VERY even.

The extra 50 hp and torque my friend had in his RS6 Avant (Hohenester) when I raced an M5 on the autobahn made it SO MUCH easier to win. And in the E55 I was driving it was not even hard :dig:

Erik please elaborate more your experience comparing to this very video.
thx.

:addict: :addict: :addict:

[Erik]

Originally posted by TaTaPiRaTa
Erik please elaborate more your experience comparing to this very video.

The M5 we raced didn't have a chance.
But it was easier to beat it in the E55 AMG than in the RS6 Hohenester.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3983&highlight=autobahn

[iconcls]

Finally downloaded this and the outcome really doesn't make any sense given the "stated" players.

And I have to say, still not comfortable seeing this stuff on public roads.

[Gustav]

I think the M5 was doing very good considering the RS6 had 500 MTM HP.

I think everything was handled in a very nice way, it even looked legal :incar:

[Bauer]

I find it hard to believe that a 500hp RS6 did not walk away from the M5 or M3. It would appear the RS6 was stock, I say this because a stock RS6 looses ground to a stock M5 when they start the get into the triple digits. Which is exactly what happend here in most of the runs. Or they were both modified. :revs: :revs:

[Fab5]

Hi,

i know these guys a bit from another forum.The test is one week ago.The only facts that i know are that the M5 has more than 80000km and is doin very well,the car is stock.The RS6 has an chip from MTM like in the vid said.

:revs:

[Bauer]

Then I am afraid to say that MTM's chip is weak. If erik had no problem with M5's in the Honenster 500 hp car or perhaps the M5's that Erik came upon had poor pilots.

[Dark Knight]

First, it's really difficult to get a "clean" test doing roll ons on a public road, we used to do them all the time on racebikes. If the machines are relatively in the same performance band the slightest edge when first flooring the car holds a small advantage for a considerable distance while the more powerful car makes up that advantage and only then proceeds to gap the other car; I think the Bimmer driver was more aggressive than the limp-wrist driving the RS6.

Watching the video closely the Bimmer gets going well when it's in the fast lane, particulary on one of the first runs because the RS6 driver is pussying around looking at a vehicle in his lane way, way up ahead, I don't think he's got the pedal "through the carpet," which gives the M5 a slight advantage. On the remaining runs the RS6 is usually on the outside of the turn and while this may seem inconsequential it makes enough of a difference.

Bottom line however, I can't see an absolutely stock M5 doing that well against a 500hp RS6. There's something going on with the cars in that vid, I don't know what it is, but something's not all it seems to be.

I've come across a couple of M5's and it wasn't as close as it's in this vid (my RS6 has an O.CT chip, 500hp on 93 octane). One instance was coming back from the Indy Formula One race a couple of weekends ago. We pulled pretty hard on him, never really had a period when he seemed to be gaining at any speed, he stopped just before his governor kicked in (I'm guessing that's why he packed in) while we continued to just over 180mph then began to backdown even though the car was still pulling quite well; we ran out of road that had enough site line for those speeds.

Anyway, no matter, it's cool to see people enjoying -- and using -- some high-performance sports cars! Good for them (even though I really, really can't stand BMW's!!).

[gmbh6]

HOLLY MOLLY I almost got a woodie with that Video. I love racing but I do have to agree with ICON....it can be nerve racking watching that stuff on public roads.

I'm amazed at the quality of the roads and how the slow people actually stay on the right. So un-American :argue: where all the slow cars stay on the left.

Anyways, I raced an M5 last year up a hill (some of you may remember the post) and I was easing up on the gas so I wouldn't hit his rear end. The RS6 seemed stronger at the start but then the drag from the Quattro starts to kick in and the M5 can catch up.

Nonetheless, those cars are very fast and F the E55 :bye2: on everything but a straight-shot.

[Erik]

This is the Autobahn. It is perfectly legal.

If you get nervous seeing this don't download the Highway Challenge 2004 video when it goes public. :bigeyes:

[RobertV]

Do tell:D

[iconcls]

Also from Germany

http://www.bikeroute.com/BentImagesFolder/SpeedKills2.jpg

[ZCD2.7T]

Actually, IMO, from the specs and other tests I've seen, the results shown in the video are about what I'd expect.

That is, the M5 has often shown to be faster than the stock RS6 at higher speeds. Thus, a stock RS6 would likely lose these types of races decisively.

The vid (VERY cool!) shows THIS RS6 keeping even with, or very slightly pulling away from the M5 in most cases. This indicates that it's faster than stock. :addict:

So, where's the controversy?

Also, FWIW, an Avant has substantially more aero drag than a sedan, which undoubtedly has an effect at the kinds of speeds reached in the video.

The CSL did sound really cool, too! :thumb:

Oh, and Thanks, Erik, for posting the link. Fun stuff!

[iconcls]

I guess I just expect more of MTM in what would be my then warranty-less car, especially in light of Erik's comment concerning the Hohenester tune.

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by iconcls
I guess I just expect more of MTM in what would be my then warranty-less car, especially in light of Erik's comment concerning the Hohenester tune.

If an MTM chipped RS6 is slower than an M5, then the RS6 is not in proper running order - FACT.

If our friend from South Africa 'knows of a MTM chipped RS6 that is slower than a stock RS6' then there is something wrong with the car, as he should well know! Don't impune the name of a reputable tuner - complain to the local agent who installed the chip, he should have picked it up!

If you check out independent tests of tuners' RS6s, you will find that MTM almost always comes out on top or thereabouts. We can all make a car faster than any given tuner, but for how long?

By the way MTM won their class in the tuners GP and outright only three tuned turbo-charged porsches were faster round Hockenheim.

R+C

[iconcls]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
If an MTM chipped RS6 is slower than an M5, then the RS6 is not in proper running order - FACT.

Until we hear from the RS owner that something was buggered on his car, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that everything was in working order.

MTM was one of 2 companies I was considering for ECU mods, after a vid like that and other comments, that is no longer the case.

[nyrs6]

i wouldnt blame the video you dont know what the real story is. I would still consider MTM if i were you because all i have heard is good about them and that people are satisfied. I think you should check more into it then decide jsut from this video

[avdh]

Originally posted by Nordschleife


If our friend from South Africa 'knows of a MTM chipped RS6 that is slower than a stock RS6' then there is something wrong with the car, as he should well know! Don't impune the name of a reputable tuner - complain to the local agent who installed the chip, he should have picked it up!

R+C

Nothing wrong with the car. Since the the MTM chip was fitted to the ECU, by MTM in the UK, when plugging-in the VAG Tool, or the VAZ tool or the VAG.com program, the same "check sum error" message.

And eventually the car goes into limp mode.

I also had the exact same fault on my car with some else's chip and since I have my car back to stock, not only do I get exactly the same or better quarter mile, o-100 km/h etc..., but also the "check sum error fault" fault does come anymore.
Dittto for the RS6 which had the MTM chip.... To this date MTM in the UK has not been able to come with any solution. I know it is a bit difficult to fix problem from the UK when the ECU is in the car in South Africa.

I am still waiting for a RS6 chip which does not give this problems or any other problem, as when the New M5 comes, I'm going to need a very good one :)

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by iconcls
Until we hear from the RS owner that something was buggered on his car, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that everything was in working order.

MTM was one of 2 companies I was considering for ECU mods, after a vid like that and other comments, that is no longer the case.

Its your choice, but how about making an informed choice?

Road test data shows that MTM's RS6s are amongst if not the fastest RS6s. I can assure you that the MTM chip is not weak, go and check the data.

As far as giving people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to something being wrong with the car, its not always that straightforward. Often pressure leaks grow slowly and the owner doesn't notice it, then somebody else sits in the car and points out its slow.

So, if you have some independent data, thats great. However, be very careful when selecting a chip based on performance alone. Some tuners do not wsufficiently reduce boost so that they overspin the turbos with unfortunate long term consequences. One reason I selected MTM was that in the event of anything going wrong, I knew there would be no problems, in the event I was correct, new exhaust manifolds, new turbos and a new gearbox were required, all paid for under warranty. No attempt made to cover up the car's modifications, MTM even negotiated with Audi.

There are some other tuners, with great names, that I could have gone to, close to Ingolstadt, I'm not sure my experience would have been so stress free had I had to make my claim through one of the others.

R+C

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by avdh
Nothing wrong with the car. Since the the MTM chip was fitted to the ECU, by MTM in the UK, when plugging-in the VAG Tool, or the VAZ tool or the VAG.com program, the same "check sum error" message.

And eventually the car goes into limp mode.

I also had the exact same fault on my car with some else's chip and since I have my car back to stock, not only do I get exactly the same or better quarter mile, o-100 km/h etc..., but also the "check sum error fault" fault does come anymore.
Dittto for the RS6 which had the MTM chip.... To this date MTM in the UK has not been able to come with any solution. I know it is a bit difficult to fix problem from the UK when the ECU is in the car in South Africa.

I am still waiting for a RS6 chip which does not give this problems or any other problem, as when the New M5 comes, I'm going to need a very good one :)

If you are having this problem you should go straight to MTM in Germany. There could be a number of problems, including SA fuel. I can assure you that when everything is properly functioning, there is a huge difference between the chipped and unchipped cars.
Incidentally, at sea level, with good fuel, there is no way a chipped RS6 will live with the new M5. The M5 is faster in a straight line and handles immeasurably better, about 20 seconds a lap faster at the Nuerburgring, it does 0-250 in 13.9 with a top speed of 330 kph. At altitude the RS6 should be faster.

R+C

[gjg]

To this date MTM in the UK has not been able to come with any solution.

avdh - did you try to contact MTM directly, not their dealer in UK?

I find hard to believe, given my 12 years experience with MTM, that they would sell non-functioning chipset (this alone makes me wonder about the UK "dealer") and to leave such problem with even attempt to correct it.

:idea:

[iconcls]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
The M5 is faster in a straight line and handles immeasurably better, about 20 seconds a lap faster at the Nuerburgring

This 8 minute Ring time for the E60 is stupid fast, Audi will never be able to touch this unless they get serious about weight reduction IMO.

Oh well, back to being BMW's bitch.

[Bauer]

Oh well, back to being BMW's bitch.

Yes, that may be true....but not under all conditions:hahahehe:

Plus, it is always a cat and mouse game for the performance numbers. There will ALWAYS be something faster.


But I do agree about needing to put the RS cars on a diet.

[avdh]

Originally posted by gjg


avdh - did you try to contact MTM directly, not their dealer in UK?

:idea:

My friends has been in touch with the UK representative only, but gave up after the second or third chip they sent him.
When you're far away, things are no as easy.

As for fuel, yes our pump fuel is crap, 93 to 94 RON (89 to 90 MON), but both my friend and I mix our pump fuel with unleaded 102.6 RON racing fuel, thus averaging between 98 and 100 RON, so the fuel was not the issue.

[avdh]

Originally posted by Nordschleife

Incidentally, at sea level, with good fuel, there is no way a chipped RS6 will live with the new M5. The M5 is faster in a straight line and handles immeasurably better, about 20 seconds a lap faster at the Nuerburgring, it does 0-250 in 13.9 with a top speed of 330 kph. At altitude the RS6 should be faster.

R+C

Even at 1750m altitude, I wonder if the new E60 M5 will not be faster, if both cars are on the same fuel..... That is if BMW promises stand with production cars.

Now a 600 bhp mod might do the trick :D

[Nordschleife]

Andre

It really would be a good idea to communicate directly with MTM in Germany. As far as the fuel is concerned, there is more to it than just the octane level, issues like sulphur content and aromatics come into it as well. If your standard fuel is 43-94 RON, then the stock RS6 is struggling. MTM had to make a special chip for NZ because of the fuel content, rather than octane rating, and for Italy they make special chips. Possibly for cars that live at altitude with high temperature levels they would produce a chip which suits that environment and available fuel.

MTM are quite well aware of SA, after all its a favorite winter destination for Bavarians.

R+C

[Erik]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
it does 0-250 in 13.9

Did you really mean 0 - 250? Not 0 - 200 km/h? :confused: or :MTM:

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by Erik
Did you really mean 0 - 250? Not 0 - 200 km/h? :confused: or :MTM:

They have now changed it to:

0 - 250 in 14.9 sec, still very very fast!

R+C

[Erik]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
still very very fast!

Very impressive!

PS. I have tried several times to communicate with MTM directly.
The few times I do get a reply it's after a long wait. Their only comfort is that most tuners are the same. :rolleyes:

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by Erik


PS. I have tried several times to communicate with MTM directly.
The few times I do get a reply it's after a long wait. Their only comfort is that most tuners are the same. :rolleyes:

Its best to communicate directly with Michael Weber or Wolfgang Brandl.

R+C

[iconcls]

Originally posted by Bauer
Plus, it is always a cat and mouse game for the performance numbers. There will ALWAYS be something faster.

Agreed, there will always be someone faster, but I prefer to be in the ballpark of the top dogs and Audi certainly has it's work cutout for them with the C6 RS 6 given the E60 M5.