Hot News! Tuner Grand Prix 2004 (Manual MTM RS6 ClubSport)

[Erik]

Nice to see the MTM Avant among all these nice cars.

Note the hood! Does it say it is 300 kg lighter than stock? :eek:

Does anybody know the outcome of the Tuner GP 2004?

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/61176


Found some more information:
http://www.mtm-online.de/html_en/frames_au/frameset_news.php4?id=24&Marke=AU&Modell=RS6

The Beast awakens...

With the RS6 Clubsport MTM celebrate the first place last weekend at Tuner-GP at the Hockenheimring.
The time of 1:12.453 would be in the GT-class, at the Porsche cars, the 4th place.
The performance was increased by the turbokit to 570hp, the vehicle weight could be reduced by modifications over up to 300Kg, without comfort suffers.
The change from automatic transmission to manual gearbox brings the driving fun on highest level.
In the future will be take place some modifications on the axles as well on the aerodynamic. There are tests planed at Nardo.

As a reference. The Lamborghini Gallardo and the Porsche GT3 RS does the Hockenheim in 1.11,8 min...

http://www.mtm-online.de/img/news/news_bild1_24.jpg

[eph94]

300kg lighter than stock without sacrificing comfort? I would take that WITHOUT any increases in power. A 3600 lbs. beast would be a beautiful thing.

:thumb:

[rs6_newyork]

I'd be happy just to get a manual with a clutch pedal before worrying about 300lbs

I wonder what tranny they used and if anyone can copy their idea and offer it as an upgrade kit.

edit: 300kg lighter is 650lbs lighter so that makes it a 3400lb car? oh i guess you gotta start from avant factory curb..

[Erik]

I wonder what kind of torque they can get with a manual. :hahahehe:

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by rs6_newyork
I'd be happy just to get a manual with a clutch pedal before worrying about 300lbs

I wonder what tranny they used and if anyone can copy their idea and offer it as an upgrade kit.

edit: 300kg lighter is 650lbs lighter so that makes it a 3400lb car? oh i guess you gotta start from avant factory curb..


Same gearbox as the RS4.

A very expensive conversion, its not an economic proposition.


R+C

[rs6_newyork]

Originally posted by Erik
I wonder what kind of torque they can get with a manual. :hahahehe: It isn't about the torque, as the RS6 has drive train lockup over Xmph, so effectively all engine torque is transmitted.

25% dyno loss on whp is typical of quattro, not tiptronic. I don't know what the slushbox torque converter saps but it is probably not much..

but a manual would allow brilliant launches, faster shifts and perfect timing of cog swapping, for better corner exit speeds.

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by rs6_newyork
It isn't about the torque, as the RS6 has drive train lockup over Xmph, so effectively all engine torque is transmitted.

25% dyno loss on whp is typical of quattro, not tiptronic. I don't know what the slushbox torque converter saps but it is probably not much..

but a manual would allow brilliant launches, faster shifts and perfect timing of cog swapping, for better corner exit speeds.

Oh dear, oh dear!

Contrary to your assertion - Its ALL about torque!

The RS6 gearbox is torque limited - the engine is easily capable of producing a great deal more torque than the gearbox can handle. The manual gearbox is stronger, in this instance.

Incidentally, if you put the gear lever into manual mode, you have 'perfect timing of cog swapping' - why don't you try it sometime?

R+C

[rs6_newyork]

you misunderstand and flame first.

Replacing a tip with a manual box does not increase wheel torque magically.

That was my point.

Of course a highly rated manual box and clutch can allow a more tuned motor. That is a given.

As for perfectly timed cog swapping and your sarcasm, maybe you have a different RS6 than mine, but if you press the paddles for up or down shift, there is a delay, and it is variable. Depends on engine revs, throttle position, load, and whether or not it is an up or down shift. Unless your mind is plugged into the tip chip and ecu, you cannot predict the delay easily. If you want to race the car effectively, knowing exactly when the cogs will swap, and how quickly, is worth time on the track.

Getting the timing right is not nearly as easy as a manual especially as the delay can be a full second. If it were, nobody would be interested in manuals.

[Nordschleife]

I did not misunderstand what you wrote. In this instance, you will find that the transmission losses with the RS4 box are less than with the stock RS6 box.

However, I am surprised that you do not instinctively know how long the car will take to change gear in the given circumstances, I thought everybody knew that. Yes its dependent on a variety of factors, including which gearbox program the tiptronic ecu has currently selected, but you can feel what the car is doing. Have you tried to get the car to shift up a gear by momentarily lifting the throttle when just cruising along?

I have never experienced delays of a second when changing gear in the RS6.

If you consistently drive the car hard, then the transmission ecu will habitually use the faster programs. These programs do shift faster.

R+C

[Sims]

Originally posted by rs6_newyork


Getting the timing right is not nearly as easy as a manual especially as the delay can be a full second. If it were, nobody would be interested in manuals.


I find it difficult, if not impossible, to believe you are getting up to a second's worth of delay. My little Smart Car changes faster. You need to get your car fixed.

[rs6_newyork]

if you didn't misunderstand, than why imply that I am clueless with sarcasm etc?

Your point about manual boxes allowing more torque while true is irrelevant to what I posted. I posted that wtq will not increase substantially by simple substitution of manual box. I don't know how I could have made myself more clear on that. Quattro driveline losses are vast majority of wtq vs engine torque loss, not this auto box, which is pretty much direct drive after torque converter locks up.

and as for tip, again what i posted on vagueness is not worth quibbling over, if you stick a manual box in, you are doing it for reasons of superior control over cog swapping, not for anything else (if engine does not change).

Next time you are in your car, time from click of paddle to shift completion when you are not wide open throttle. For lazy shift program it is a second+. For non lazy shift program it might be half a second but where is my "switch to non lazy shift program button" and indicator lights? There is not one. the car may have 24 shift programs but it keeps them secret. For manual gearbox, delay is whatever you want it to be, within reason. If you are 9/10ths traction on trail braking and turning and you need a shift you do NOT want to leave it to an chip to decide and you definitely do not want it to use car momentum (subtract from your traction) to spin up the engine.

For downshifts, tiptronic does not blip throttle quickly (or at all), instead, torque converter (and momentum of car) is used to speed up engine for rev matching which is far from ideal in many ways. Heel and toe is preferable and faster, and if you want more speed still then you can even go clutchless shifting if your mechanical sympathy is good.

I can't believe I am writing such obvious stuff to explain why manual is much superior to tip. It is 98% these reasons to prefer it given the option, and only 2% reason is any torque reduction in driveline loss.

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by rs6_newyork


I can't believe I am writing such obvious stuff to explain why manual is much superior to tip. It is 98% these reasons to prefer it given the option, and only 2% reason is any torque reduction in driveline loss.

I can't believe you are writing such obvious stuff either! Whilst its obvious, its irrelevant. People fit manual boxes to RS5s so they can reliably tranmit more torque through the drive train.

R+C

[eph94]

Regarding the slushbox, I find it has much more composed behavior on the track than on the street.

For example, when I'm diving into a 2nd gear corner from 4th, I click the downshift paddle twice as I threshhold brake. By the time I am off the brake, the car is in 2nd and ready for me to reapply the throttle. Surprisingly, the slushbox does NOT upset the balance of the car at all when I downshift and brake into corners at the track. Is this what others experience as well on the track, or have I simply gotten used to it? In fact, I don't even feel the shift. And it does it with far less drama than if I had to heel-toe from 4th to 2nd while braking.

However, when I am on the street and downshift as I am headed to a stop, I definitely feel a pronounced lurch as the car downshifts gears.

Joe V.

[Bauer]

I have the same experience on the track. No problems as I am usually breaking hard during the down shifts and do not use the transmission to slow the car. It has not really been a problem for me.

[Erik]

I deleted a few posts. :eye:

So please go on discussing this exciting news and avoid flaming, spelling issues etc. Thanks!

From day one (almost :p ) there has been talk about a manual for the RS6.

In Speed Challenge GT (USA) it was realised and proved very successful in racing.

Well, here it is - ready for the streets! This is BIG news for me.

I'd like to know: How much of a 'copy' is the MTM RS6 Clubsport compared to the Champion Racing RS6?

:addict: :incar:

[RS6 OOOO]

i spoke with one of the local Audi mechanics and they said that the v8 S4 transmisison will bolt right up. an S4 seems a lot easier to get a hold of than a RS4. just relaying what i heard

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by RS6 OOOO
i spoke with one of the local Audi mechanics and they said that the v8 S4 transmisison will bolt right up. an S4 seems a lot easier to get a hold of than a RS4. just relaying what i heard

Your local Audi mechanic is talking out of the ragged rear end of his overalls. You cannot just bolt up the RS4, or S4 gearbox to the RS6 block. A lot of work has to be done, alterations made helicoils inserted, pan welded up, engine mounting bracket altered, starter fitment altered...... the list goes on. You can bolt the S4 / RS4 gearbox up to the S6 block however. Then you have to completely reprogram the ECU....

I have been through this modification with Champion and MTM, in detail, I'm not surprised the mechanic was fooled into his statement.

R+C

[Mr. Fru-T Pants]

Hey Robin! How's life? When we gonna take that fishing trip down unda?

Patrick;)

[boondocksts]

Originally posted by Nordschleife


I have been through this modification with Champion and MTM, in detail, I'm not surprised the mechanic was fooled into his statement.

R+C
and what did MTM say? i am trying to get in contact withthem to see if they can replicate this setup with my car.

[Nordschleife]

I've sent you a PM

R+C

[Erik]

Here's a picture... :addict:

I see the car was on Pirelli P Zero Rossos.

Dimension...hold on... 295/30/19 :vhmmm:


http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2MTM-Clubsport.jpg