APR Chip vs. MTM

[k2]

Well I just made up my mind.

I am going with Hoppen's MTM Stage I. Why ... ?

Well the one guy that actual kept me interested in APR recently left the company ... Jeremy. The guy I just spoke with told me he doesn't have any dyno info ... so I asked him how many ECUs they have upgraded ... he told me well over 100. Funny, I just did a search on our forum and there are numerous mentions of APR, but very few claim an upgrade from the company ... therefore ...

I am calling BS on the boys at APR. I have used their 2.7t chip and loved it, but I think they are over their heads with the RS6. I asked the 'new guy' if he would send my email to a couple of customers asking if they would correspond with me ... he said he would not do that. Seems a little hoakey ... over 100 upgrades and no one has a dyno. Jeezzz

JUST M.O.

[Benman]

Originally posted by k2
Well I just made up my mind.
so I asked him how many ECUs they have upgraded ... he told me well over 100. Funny, I just did a search on our forum and there are numerous mentions of APR, but very few claim an upgrade from the company ... therefore ...


JUST M.O.
Maybe they're including all the upgrades from the UK as well since they are out there as well.:confused:

[k2]

Thought this interesting as well ...http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2481702489&category=6055

[kreggin]

Well that explains why he is not answering my email ... too bad. He was totally into customer support - did my two TT's

[hogan]

Good call on MTM. I had a APR chip for my RS6 installed and ripped irt out after 2 weeks.

[Erik]

Originally posted by hogan
I had a APR chip for my RS6 installed and ripped irt out after 2 weeks.

Care to tell us why? :confused:

[k2]

Why ? ... yes please ... help your fellow ring masters

[avdh]

Be careful with chipping.
There seems to be a problem "somewhere" and many chips, including those mentioned here will eventually give you a "check sum error" message if you plug in a VAZ or VAG or a computer with a VAG.com software to the port.

Some say it is a software trick that Audi purposely put on the original software, or something to that extent.

Eventually the car will go into limp mode.

To get out of limp mode, disconnected the positive pole of the battery for 5 minutes.

[BlackRS6]

I have installed the APR chip (I have posted before). I am not trying to sell APR vs any other chip supplier, but I am very pleased with the results. I did have the same problem that hogan had very early in March, right after the chip was instsalled. APR made some adjustments to the product and once it was installed the car has run perfectly (since early April). I was pleased that they fixed the probelm at no charge and were willing to switch me back to stock at no charge if I was unhappy.
The car was dyno'd at AWE and charted out @ 521hp and 540 ft/lbs using the same wheel to crank ratio as they used on their website for the base/chip comparison for the GIAC chip.

In conclusion I am satisfied even though the installation of the APR correction in April was inconvenient. The car is running great, I still giggle every time I fully accelerate. The ability to swich back to stock mode has been effective for my dealer visits for the 15K service and state inspection. I have also checked the error codes via VAG and no problems as of yet.

As a side bar I installed a set of Fikse Profile 5 wheels last week with Pilot Sport tires for the summer, and the ride is even better...I love the look of 5 spoke wheels. I am finally done with my desired modifications for a while, going to spend thew rest of the time enjoying the ride.

[JA]

Jim from PA --

Your car sounds awesome.

Pardon me while I speak in the dialect of relative newbie-ese, but do I understand you correctly when you say that you can switch from chip to stock and back again with your set-up?

It's an intriguing idea to this warranty-watcher.

I also have the front-rear K40 radar/laser with in-dash visuals. I think it's a great system, yet whenever I read writeups on these products, K-40 never seems to get its due.

P.S. That wasn't your car in front of the Rittenhouse Hotel a couple of Saturday nights ago, was it?

Cheers.

2003 Daytona Gray
Ebony interior with carbon-fibre trim
K-40
XM satellite
Full front and rear bumper clearcoat
Huper Optik medium tint
Sound-enhanced exhaust

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by JA
...do I understand you correctly when you say that you can switch from chip to stock and back again with your set-up? \

That's right; APR chips offer that program. I've had it as part of my APR chip in a 1998 A4 1.8T, then another in my 2000 S4. Very handy program, that's for sure. Plus I've had no problems as a result of being chipped for 16K miles in the A4 and 30K mi in the S4.

The RS6 is a different animal, of course, but my good experiences with APR will probably lead me back to them if I ever chip the beast. You might read that other chips are faster -- and they might be. But APR has proven dependable, at least for me, and that's worth a couple of hp & then some.:incar:

[gjg]

The ability to swich back to stock mode has been effective for my dealer visits for

:
It's an intriguing idea to this warranty-watcher.

This is just a selling point of APR - don't make no mistake about the fact that AOA tech with laptop connected to your car will immediately know that you do not have original factory chip ........

:deal:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by gjg
This is just a selling point of APR - don't make no mistake about the fact that AOA tech with laptop connected to your car will immediately know that you do not have original factory chip

Is this something new to the RS6? As I recall the installer of my chips on the A4 and S4 said there was no way to detect the chip without opening the ECU. And I tend to believe them, since a dealer once asked me if I was chipped. I don't know why they'd ask that unless they couldn't tell easily on their own.

But the RS6 is different, of course. Are you saying it's different regarding chip detectability, for lack of a better word?

[gjg]

as far as I know VAG would not in most of the cases detect the aftermaket chip. If you have a problem with some component failure and AOA gets involved, the tech with factory software and laptop will detect the differerent chip as soon as he plugs in - I have seen that on both of my S cars over the years.

Is there now a difference for RS6? I doubt that.

Otherwise - if you had aftermarket software matching factory package one would think there would something to go by with software copyrights ?

[Nordschleife]

A trained technician will know if the chip has been reprogrammed or replaced. A poorly trained operator may not notice.

If many people start trying to hide the fact that their cars have modified chips, I would expect Audi to 'upgrade' the ECU software as part of the standard service, so the stealth installation would be overwritten with a standard program.

I have always been completely frank with Audi as to the extent of any modifications carried out on my cars. I have never had any problems with warranty claims, including the one which required new turbos, new exhaust manifolds and a new gearbox. I have even had cars repaired when out of the warranty period and been given an extended warranty. I doubt this would have happened if I had tried to hide the fact that the car has been modified.

R+C

[gjg]

there is no free lunch ....

my experience is similar - I had parts replaced under warranty on S6 although they were aware of modifications before hand.

gg

[eph94]

My dealer is not mod-friendly at all. Even going aftermarket with the brake fluid or brake pads, they say, will void the factory brake warranty. I don't know if they are full of sh!t but they are already setting the table for a battle if I did choose to make any major mods.

I'm still working on modding the driver. At my last track day, I couldn't believe how I was gaining ground on smaller and lighter cars in the turns and not just the straights. The RS6 continues to amaze me. My driver ability is probably utilizing only 60% of the car's capability too. Even with the non-chipped stock engine, I'm a little too heavy on the throttle sometimes. Some other drivers in lower HP car say how they simply mash the throttle at corner apex. Easy for them, but I can't even come close to doing that since the RS6 has gobs upon gobs of power. At this point, extra HP and torque would just make matters worse. Smooth=fast.

It's also eye-opening how fast instructors can lap in old beaters. The simply build momentum and carry it around the whole track.

[BlackRS6]

P.S. That wasn't your car in front of the Rittenhouse Hotel a couple of Saturday nights ago, was it?

no, sorry that wasn't me and I too have had good success with the K40, plus I love the set-up

[JAXRS6]

For the record I would never lie about having a chip. But a personal experience suggested that honesty can be not only expensive, but can lead to an incorrect result.

To repeat a story I've told before: My 2000 S4's check engine light (CEL) went on, so I visited dealer. Service writer asked, "Are you chipped?" I said yes -- APR -- and we agreed to put it in stock mode. When I returned several hours later the service writer and tech said they could find nothing wrong, so "it must be the chip."

Not satisfied, I went to a tekkie friend with a VAG-COM. He produced a readout that made the dealer change its mind. End result was a new MAF filter under warranty. The CEL light remained off

But what if my friend had not been available? I might have felt obligated, in order to "restore" my warranty, to buy another factory chip at $700 or so -- and still not solve the CEL problem!

So, my policy is this: To protect myself from dealers who are too lazy or incompetent to find the real problem & who instead will try to blame the problem on a chip (AS HAPPENED TO ME), I prefer a chip with stock mode (IF I chip, and I haven't for the RS6; may or may not down the road). If I'm asked by a dealer I'll be honest, but why advertise an issue that could lead to my being held responsible for something that is Audi's responsibility?

Again, to emphasize, that's exactly what was happening to me & would have ended that way if it weren't for my tekkie friend with a VAG-COM. The fact that he's no longer available is one reason I'm hesitating to chip now.

[k2]

I think the bottom line is ... don't chip your car unless you are willing to (in the worst case) fund any major issues out of your own pocket. When I was in the Bay Area (SF) I had a friend that lost a transmission in an Allroad that was chipped. The dealership wouldn't cover it, he couldn't afford to replace it and the car sat in his garage for 3 months until he could save money to replace the tranny. I think it all depends on your relationship with the Owner of the dealership. I have assurances from my Sales Manger and the Owner that if I want my car chipped by MTM that they will arrange it with Hoppen and they will take care of any issues disputed by AudiNA. They have done a similar thing with another client and I have verified it with him ... another reason why i will go with MTM and not APR (although i like the idea of a valet mode).

The other thing you can do is try to find another ECU and pull the chipped ECU out before service. That said, I understand the it is very hard to get your hands on spare ECUs, espcially for the RS6.

Bottom line ... if you can't afford the risk ... don't take it. I totally agree with JAX ... be honest ... talk to your dealer ahead of time (amazing what dealers are doing to move gas guzzlers). If they agree to make it right ... then chip. If you buy enough cars ... or they think you will buy enough in the long run ... they will take care of you. Talk to the owner ... show you knowledge and let him / her know you will be doing business with them for a long time. If you buy one car every five years ... then forget this approach ... if you chip ... you need a repair piggy bank.

MHO

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by k2
I think the bottom line is ... don't chip your car unless you are willing to (in the worst case) fund any major issues out of your own pocket. When I was in the Bay Area (SF) I had a friend that lost a transmission in an Allroad that was chipped. The dealership wouldn't cover it, he couldn't afford to replace it and the car sat in his garage for 3 months until he could save money to replace the tranny. I think it all depends on your relationship with the Owner of the dealership. I have assurances from my Sales Manger and the Owner that if I want my car chipped by MTM that they will arrange it with Hoppen and they will take care of any issues disputed by AudiNA. They have done a similar thing with another client and I have verified it with him ... another reason why i will go with MTM and not APR (although i like the idea of a valet mode).

The other thing you can do is try to find another ECU and pull the chipped ECU out before service. That said, I understand the it is very hard to get your hands on spare ECUs, espcially for the RS6.

Bottom line ... if you can't afford the risk ... don't take it. I totally agree with JAX ... be honest ... talk to your dealer ahead of time (amazing what dealers are doing to move gas guzzlers). If they agree to make it right ... then chip. If you buy enough cars ... or they think you will buy enough in the long run ... they will take care of you. Talk to the owner ... show you knowledge and let him / her know you will be doing business with them for a long time. If you buy one car every five years ... then forget this approach ... if you chip ... you need a repair piggy bank.

MHO

Sounds reasonable to me!:thumb:

I agree completely that relationship with dealer is paramount. Would add that dealer attitudes vary. A lot.

In fact, I have a more mod-friendly relationship with my dealer here than exists where I bought the car. If I end up becoming a year-round resident here, I too may try MTM because the dealer has a good relationship with Hoppen.

Then again, I may stay stock. The risk you describe is real.

[k2]

JAX ... I was a long time Champion customer until Braman decided they wanted my business ... I have been completely impressed with Braman's approach. They have finally found a sales manager that wants to own Sth Florida for Audi. He knew I had purchased a bunch of cars from Champions in the last 18 months. They know I only buy Audis and PCars and that fits ... so this is probably one of those once in a while things ... stars aligned ... blah blah ... nonetheless I can have my car tuned and warranteed.

I called Mike Hoppen and told him my situation. He confirmed that they did another Braman client recently (will not disclose his name ... i think he is a poster on this Board ... Orange Gallardo). I'll probably chip after the summer here.

They went so far as to let me sit in their Carerra GT and start it up (holy crap). One day.

[tastegood4u]

umm REVO.. APR is good but ur right tech support blows dick,, MTM very nice and aggressive but REVO is top of the line when it coems 2 technolighy and support trust me ive benn thoguh bout 5 differet chips.. NEUSPEED .. nice but not for the RS6... im speakin from 2.7tt experience

try REVO

[audirs6sport]

revo rules =) :addict: :addict: :addict: :addict: make sure to obtain sps3 unit.

im still waiting for them to make me the custom tip chip. still in progress. :rs6kiss: :rs6kiss: :rs6kiss: :rs6kiss:

[mr.zeke]

i also have heard great things about oct with full milltek.true?no body answered the drag strip question

[nyrs6]

This should answer youre questions

http://www2.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=2904

[mr.zeke]

whats a v1

[nyrs6]

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