Chilling the Intake air further more...

[Klint]

Influenced entirely by the ricers out there, but it sounds cool having one/two of these (http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Pages/Ntercooler.htm) mounted to the intercoolers for more HP. :D

[gjg]

:harass: does it come with steamed or fried rice ?

[gnomik007]

Seems to be a good thing,but can someone explain exactly how it works and whether u think it will be applicable to RS6?

[Erik]

True or not, I've heard that that is one of the best ways to use NOZ.

As far as I understand you do a closed loop system so you never have to refill gas.

[gnomik007]

Originally posted by Erik
As far as I understand you do a closed loop system so you never have to refill gas.

If thats the case,u can run it all the time,right?However,i read that CO2 is actually sprayed onto radiator,exactly like STi's and Evo's system apart from CO2 instead of water.

[Erik]

Originally posted by gnomik007
If thats the case,u can run it all the time,right?

That's how I understood it.

Please remember I am not at all an expert on the NOZ-things so I could have been bullshitted. :brag:

Perhaps this could be something instead of the RS6 Plus extra intercoolers? ;)

Anyone care to explain more? :vhmmm:

[Aronis]

No, it is not a 'closed loop.'

In order to have something like that you would need a compressor to recompress the NOS.

The way it works in this setup is that the Compressed Gas (NOS or CO2 or what ever) cools down rapidly when you release it from the can. As any gas expands it cools, that's why soda from a soda fountain is already somewhat cold and you don't really need all that ICE. LOL.

The NOS is being used as a refrigerant that you are spraying on the surface of the intercooler. Thus it's like bringing February cold air to your car in July. The intercooler then cools the compressed gas going through it more.

The principle of the intercooler is to cool down the air to be used in the engine for combustion which has just been compressed. When you compress a gas it gets hotter, thus if you use an intercooler you can bring it's temperature back down. Also since it is begin compressed by a system that uses very hot exhaust gases to turn the compressor its nice to bring that temp down a bit too, thus bigger intercoolers, would be better too.

The heating up of the compressed gas is only a transient event. As you force the gas molecules closer together, they move faster, and thus generate heat. The compressed NOS in the can is not hot, it's at room temperature, but when you release it, it cools down substantially as it expands.

In order to have a 'closes sytem' you would need to have a second 'radiator' next to your intercooler, through which the cold NOS runs through after it expands, then you would recompress it, without letter it escape into the atmosphere (and into the engine compartment next to hot things that can ignite the N02?).

That is how your Air Conditioner works. You compress the gas in the engine compartment, then pump the compressed gas (no longer Freon) into the condenser in the passenger compartment where the gas expands and cools down. You then blow the air from your passenger compartment across the 'radiator' in the condensor and wha la cold air comes out your vent. The condenser is called that since the now cooled air looses it's moister as it cools and all that water vapor is the 'car pee' your car leaves on the ground when you park! The refrigerant then flows back in the tubing to the engine compartment to be recompressed! That is a closed loop.

The way NOS is typically used is that it is injected into the intake with the atmospheric air, nitrous oxide is a 'safe' way of getting more oxygen into the engine. If you used straight O2, BANG for sure....

I would be a bit conerned over spraying NO2 onto the intercooler, I think it could cause a fire! The C02 they mention on their web site sounds a bit safer.

The problem with Nitrous Oxyide injection is that you run out of No2 quickly., If you have a big bottle of it, you add some weight to your car, and performance gains may be negated!

Mike

[gnomik007]

Thanks for info,but do u think such cooler could be applied to RS6.
It seems to me that a sudden significant drop in air temp. when u r pushing it hard would drive the electronics a bit crazy,no?

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by gnomik007
Thanks for info,but do u think such cooler could be applied to RS6.
It seems to me that a sudden significant drop in air temp. when u r pushing it hard would drive the electronics a bit crazy,no?

Why would it 'drive the electronics crazy'?

This is a pretty stupid modification for the RS6. The benefits are unknown. Without playing around with a dumb stupid dangerous modification, you can tune the RS6 engine to the point where it will destroy gearboxes, why then play around with something that requires a great deal of knowledge and experience.

You can use water sprays on intercoolers to great effect. But, you must have accesss to an installer who can program the computer controlling the spraying. Contrary to most people's expectations, intercoolers on street cars principally act as heat sinks.

If you can find a way of keeping the gearbox in one piece, you can get lots of power out of this engine. However, the RS6 platform is not a great base to build a more powerful engine on. For example, if you fit larger turbochargers, you will have to cut into the footwell because the space is so tight.

R+C

[Aronis]

So, back to my basic belief, the RS6 is just fine the way it came from Audi.

Mike

[rs6_newyork]

NOS sprayers (to chill) are often added to civics and other cars with after market turbos on them. I suspect they are used in the manner of the "fast and the furious" where you are at a traffic light drag (or the drag strip) and you rep is hanging on "having a nine second car" you turn the tap in the cockpit.

So for people who are taking their RS6 to the drag strip and unhappy with all the efforts they have to go to to keep the engine cool (i've read past posts about ice packs, taking the carbon top off, leaving the hood open etc), then this NOS sprayer would be just the ticket.

But I don't think adding this stuff to an RS6 quite matches the spirit of the car. For the money spent on this and other mods and the $ risk of warranty and the raised eyebrows and $ loss when you resell the car, you can pick up someones civic, scoobie, evo or whatever that has 10k+ of gear poured into it and get all these mods for free (because such cars only EVER go for blue book value!) and be doing 10-11 second quarter miles immediately.

[gnomik007]

I get the idea,NOS is for Jap street racers.But,when it is +35 outside,would not u consider using such thing?The thing is that I have raised the HP output of my beast but did not invest in additional cooling apart from gearbox oil radiator,and I think that if I start pushing my beast to the limit,extra heat might become a problem.I think so because last year at the track I tried to get max speed(I had 512hp then) and after reaching just under 310 on speedo,engine temp was at its highest when I stopped.It was very hot that day as well and this summer is going to be very very hot.
:vhmmm:

[EternalX]

I wouldnt be comfortable with the NOS setup, but i would look into an intercooler mister kit. I hear they work pretty well with the B5 S4 and RS4

[nene]

I was about to post the same thing EternalX. The IC mister kits are a bit thing these days for the S4 guys that have upgraded their turbos and such. I think that would be a cheaper and more safe way to go.

That stuff is probably only good on hot Summer days, or when you plan to track/drag the car.

[gnomik007]

R we talking something like this:

Avalon motorsports introduces a proven way to increase horsepower in your car. Our mister kit uses an intelligent "brain" that sprays a fine mist on the front of your intercooler in advance of your more intense driving. The unit is installed inside the car and the spray is adjustable by the driver to most effectively cool down the intercoolers. In 25,000 plus mile of testing on three turbo cars we have seen core temps drop thirty to fifty degrees with our kit installed. A cooler car means more horsepower !

http://www.avalonmotorsports.com/index-images/icm1.jpg
http://www.avalonmotorsports.com/index-images/icm3.jpg
http://www.avalonmotorsports.com/index-images/icm2.jpg

[EternalX]

yeah thats looks like one. you can either have a coolant tank hidden somewhere, or tap into the windsheild washer container. and they are only good for track days, or places that it gets really hot for long times. knowing me, id get one just for the hell of it :D

[rs6_newyork]

I don't think water misting is nearly as interesting as NOS or CO2 misting :) The latter would reduce temps on the metal of the intercooler far more!

PS: has anyone else notices the exposed shiny metal on the AC compressor tubes? wow! no insulation at all. When I look at it, on even a slightly humid day, it is collecting and dripping vast amounts of condensation. The temps under the bonnet must really sap the coldness of the a/c fluid as it comes out and thru all those non insulated pipes..

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by rs6_newyork
I don't think water misting is nearly as interesting as NOS or CO2 misting :) The latter would reduce temps on the metal of the intercooler far more!



Have you any empirical data to support your contention? At the speed the turbo charger-bound air passes through the intercooler, temperature may be less significant than exposed volume.

In WRC, where budgets are effectively unlimited, they are happy with water spraying - do you know something they don't?

R+C

[Aronis]

I don't think that the lack of insulation on those pipes is an issue. After being compressed the refrigerant is a little hot anyway, as it expands in the condensor, it cools down a lot, so the added temp in the engine bay probably is not that much of an issue. (a little no doubt, but this summer I shall see for myself, if it ever gets over 70.....and stops raining LOL)

[rs6_newyork]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Have you any empirical data to support your contention? At the speed the turbo charger-bound air passes through the intercooler, temperature may be less significant than exposed volume.

In WRC, where budgets are effectively unlimited, they are happy with water spraying - do you know something they don't?

R+C
Of course not ;) I'm just guessing.

Never the less, I've seen data/graphs that shows the water sprayer on evos does not make very much difference even with WOT. Supposedly it just smoothes out the performance curve a little (takes the edge of the heat soak dips).

on the other hand, anecdotal evidence (use google to see context):




I had the pleasure of tuning Karun Magon's 1998 QS today. He has an RPS kit
with a precision 67 mm turbo. Chris Johnson of Performance Motorsports did
the work on the car and it looks great. In addition, Karun has the
Performance Motorsports transmission (automatic) and fuel system with 720 cc
injectors. He has stock cams... Karun's car made an impressive 624 rwhp at
29 psi today. Congrats on the numbers Karun!!!
Anyhow, the point of the post, with all the talk of spraying NOS on the IC,
I wanted to do a little experiment on Karun's car on the dyno. I did 2 back
to back pulls, one at 29 psi, and the other at 29 psi, with NOS being
sprayed on the IC (total of 3.5 lbs.). NO changes were made on the car
during these two pulls. As you can see, on the same day, same dyno, same
driver, back to back pulls, no changes, NOS on the IC makes a HUGE
difference... Can you say 62 rwhp???? So for all the doubters and ppl that
think NOS on the IC doesn't help that much, here's proof of what it does.
Next time you see someone spraying NOS on the IC, rest assured that you can
subtract 50-70 rwhp from their numbers...

[gnomik007]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Why would it 'drive the electronics crazy'?

This is a pretty stupid modification for the RS6. The benefits are unknown. Without playing around with a dumb stupid dangerous modification, you can tune the RS6 engine to the point where it will destroy gearboxes, why then play around with something that requires a great deal of knowledge and experience.

You can use water sprays on intercoolers to great effect. But, you must have accesss to an installer who can program the computer controlling the spraying. Contrary to most people's expectations, intercoolers on street cars principally act as heat sinks.
R+C

Why u say that it is a stupid mod and that benefits are uknown. There is only one benefit in cooling the engine,which is cooling it.
U say u can use water but not CO2 - WHY? CO2 with well calibrated brain will do the job of mist kit much easier and more efficient.

??????

[CarbonFibre]

I seriously doubt that intercooler misters or compressed gas sprayers would give you any gains in horsepower. If they did, 5 would be entirely optimistic. What they do more is prevent the loss of horsepower to heat soak as others have said. For one of these things to work, you'd have to find small enough ring looking thingies to put on both intercoolers of the RS6 as most of these kits are set up for front mounted intercoolers. Integration of something like this would be difficult as well. It's not necessarily a bad idea if done the right way.