Chips and Warrantee

[Aronis]

There is an interesting Letter in Road and Track, in which a question about 'chips' is asked.

According to the Author of the response, Audi apparently only voids the warrantee on the ECU if you use an APR chip upgrade! That is very interesting, no? So the rest of the car is still covered!

Mike

Page 148, Road and Track, May 2004

Also, they talk about programing the ECU to let you use the Cruise control as an antitheft device!!!!

[sturs6]

That is very interesting Mike.
We need to look into this more...

[BCR]

What do you think about a piggiback named Unichip? :hahahehe:


Bruno

[Aronis]

Hey Bruno,

I was just at their website....

Very interesting...

Do they do RS6's????

Mike

PS
Sounds like a mod you can easily REMOVE before going in for service LOVE THAT>>>>> MUCH LIKE MY OLD DINAN chip....kept the EOM in the glove box...

[Speed Technik]

Hey guys,

The way Speed Technik looks at this issue is as follows:

We recommend that an RS6 client that wants to do software that is concerned about warranty is to get a secondary ecu that we can clone to the original. Should said client have a major issue where the ecu could be in question, we would simply swap it out for the stock one and call it a day. A spare will set you back about 850 including the core charge.

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by Speed Technik
Hey guys,

The way Speed Technik looks at this issue is as follows:

We recommend that an RS6 client that wants to do software that is concerned about warranty is to get a secondary ecu that we can clone to the original. Should said client have a major issue where the ecu could be in question, we would simply swap it out for the stock one and call it a day. A spare will set you back about 850 including the core charge.

Jesus wept mate
talk about cheating - you are teaching your customers to be cheats. Today they cheat Audi, tomorrow they cheat you, believe me.

If the software you sell was any good, Audi would accept it. Proof, yes, heaps of it, I have had perhaps the highest tuned RS6s and sold them because their build quality is terrible. What was involved , whole new exhaust manifoilds, turbos and gearbox, problrms, who needs themn

[Bauer]

Nord,

I have a feeling you drove your RS6's harder than most. Not to say this is an excuse for bad build quality but if you drive a car hard more often then not, you are more likely to have problems.

I would be intrested to know how the Gallardo holds up once you get some time behind the wheel. :incar:

Cheers,

[BCR]

Originally posted by Aronis
Hey Bruno,

I was just at their website....

Very interesting...

Do they do RS6's????

Mike

PS
Sounds like a mod you can easily REMOVE before going in for service LOVE THAT>>>>> MUCH LIKE MY OLD DINAN chip....kept the EOM in the glove box...

Yes, they do RS6´s and the result may be excellent.
:p


Bruno

[Aronis]

Originally posted by BCR
Yes, they do RS6´s and the result may be excellent.
:p


Bruno

Bruno,

What do you mean May Be Excellent???

Mike

[BCR]

Originally posted by Aronis
Bruno,

What do you mean May Be Excellent???

Mike
I supose that it "may be excellent" because i have a Golf GTI and i´ve put Unichip in it and the horse power has jumped from 180 to 228, and the torque from 24,1 to 33,9.
Here are the graphics
[/URL]
http://www.multiturbo.com.br/images/Bcr_P.jpg
http://]http://www.multiturbo.com.br/images/Bcr_T.jpg


Bruno

[gregoryindiana]

If i "chip" my car, and the additional hp this (may) generate overstresses a part of the drivetrain, then i should be man enough to pay for that repair from the same pocket that bought the "chip", and not expect Audi to cover for me. After all, they DO cover such as brake pads and rotors worn out from drivers ed events, don't they? Isn't that enough, or should every Audi buyer have to subsidize the ones who expect Audi to make their hijinks whole? We're not talking legit warranty issues here.

What would be the right thing to do if you want to upgrade power? That, in my opinion, would be to use the product of a manufacturer that warrants their product in its intended use.

Some aftermarket manufacturers DO in fact provide those warranties, I am told. Undoubtedly their products cost more as a result. Testing to failure to know what breaks first surely costs more, and it has to be passed on. For example, how does anyone think it was "discovered" that the auto trans in the RS6 was only good for power upgrades to a certain point, whatever that is? Someone tested one to failure, I'll bet, and paid the money to replace it, and that cost has to be passed on. If I want their product and the assurance that comes with their experience, I will pay the premium that their product demands.

I can understand many folks point, made many times, that the entire warranty should not be voided for unrelated upgrades.

If you want the warranty, then wait for the big upgrade thing until the warranty is up, or buy aftermarket parts that have their own warranty. 450 hp is plenty fast don't you think?

Whose 4 door sedan is leaving you in the dust anyway? Maybe the answer is another set of mounted DOT legal near-slick tires, for those days when you go to the track. My old UR S4 had her set of Hoosiers on BBS wheels for that very occasion.

[Aronis]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

I agree 100%.

More Power is nice....but I don't want to mess with my warrantee.

I really don't understand how those who have voided their warrantee by such modifications indend to pay for a new engine or transmission! If you are that RICH, go for it! If it is for weekend racing, I kind of agree that such a stress to a street car really puts you in the repair seat and not the manufacturer. Even Real Race cars are serviced frequently and frequently have parts changed due to failure. No one warrantees those cars!

My car is plenty fast as is!

I got this car because of it's given performance, not to modify it to more. I chipped my 1994 325is since it was an easy chip swap and immediately reversable (10 minutes), but my 1997 M3 remained stock....

Mike

[JAXRS6]

I agree with most of what you say, Gregory. But the point quoted below is not so clear:


Originally posted by gregoryindiana
After all, they DO cover such as brake pads and rotors worn out from drivers ed events, don't they?

The reason it's not clear is that although a California member of rs6.com had his pads & rotors replaced after a track event, apparently with knowledge of the track event by both AOA and the dealer (if I recall correctly), the AOA rep with whom I had an appointment at the dealer here recently (Florida) said otherwise. That is, he said that if the wear was due to a track event, even an Audi Club driving school, AOA would NOT replace rotors & pads under warranty.

How would they know? Well, if they ask me, I won't lie -- not only because it's wrong but also because if they found out, it would destroy my credibility with them from that point onward. And they do have ways of finding out. Example: Let's say they check my pads at 15K miles and they show 50% wear. Then I go to a school, wear down pads & rotors and return with request that they replace them at 18K miles. How else, other than a track event, could I wipe out 50% of pads in 3K miles after the first 50% lasted 15K miles?

Close examination of tire wear can provide other clues to driving habits.

So where does this leave us? Good question! The only conclusion I can reach is that an AOA rep for California and the one I met with (Florida) don't agree, and I don't know why. :vhmmm: This inconsistency has discouraged me from running my RS6 at any track event until it is cleared up, and then only if the clarification is in the owner's favor.

On other warranty issues, I know that APR guarantees their chips for as long as the owner has that car. But the guarantee is that the chip will work; it is NOT a warranty against damage that the chip might cause for turbos, tranny, etc. So -- if an APR chip fails to work as it should, APR will replace it; if it causes damage to the car, the car owner is responsible.

As for why AOA won't cover such things, that -- to me -- is a no-brainer. Audi built these cars after a big investment in design & engineering. To expect them to cover damage to the car they designed that is caused by a product made by someone else is ludicrous. It's asking them to guarantee someone else's product -- someone over whom they have no control for design, engineering, production, etc.

That's why I'm waiting before I chip. For one thing, the car IS fast in stock form -- when it's working properly -- so I may not chip at all. But if I do, it will be after I've had a chance to see posts here re chip experiences over a period of many months, maybe a year or more, at which point I MAY be able to reach conclusions about which chips are least likely to cause problems.

Even then, tho, it won't be easy to conclude anything. Different folks drive their cars in different ways, some pushing the envelope much more than others. That has at least as much to do with failures as which brand of chip is being used, in my opinion.

All of which is another good reason to keep these cars stock, at least through the warranty period.:)

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who very much wanted to chip. But after my stock RS6 had MAF filters replaced twice & is still throwing faults, and is now back in the shop to replace the right side wiring harness (1.5 days labor!), I am VERY glad I remained stock. I know that dealers can try to blame problems on chips that are not cause by chips because it happened to me with my S4.

A reliable source told me the cost to replace an engine for the RS6 is $46K. Some say chips threaten turbos more than the engine, and I don't know the cost of turbos. But the tranny may be vulnerable, and altho I don't know the cost of an RS6 tranny either, I was told the 6-spd for my 2000 S4 would cost $10K new or about $5-6K rebuilt. I suspect our slushboxes cost more.

So -- for those who have had no problems with their RS6 & for whom a 5-figure repair bill is no problem, maybe chipping is worth the risk. Personally I've had no problems from the APR chip in my S4 after 30K chipped miles, so it's not as if failure is necessarily likely. But there is risk, with big bucks involved for an RS6. So if you do proceed to chip, don't say you weren't warned of possible consequences.

[JAXRS6]

No comments? Geez, I thought I got a little heavy-handed at the end & might irk SOMEONE out there!:hahahehe: :hahahehe: :hahahehe:Or maybe I just talk too much.

[Aronis]

New RS6 $85,000.

Engine for RS6 $46,000.
Transmission for RS6 $12,000.
Brakes for RS6 $5,000.
Wheels/Tires for RS6 $4,000.

Hell it don't quite add up LOL...

If you are racing it, then why not bite the bullet and buy a second RS6 for PARTS....

Mike

[Dark Knight]

After doing a tremendous amount of research on the chip vs. not to chip (that is the question!) topic I decided to go on a risk-based approach i.e., what are the factors involved, what are the probabilities, and what are the consequences.

For US residents, the law is incredibly weighted on the side of the consumer with the burden falling on the side of the supplier to prove fault. While I am sure it would be an "interesting" interaction between an RS6 owner and Audi if the transmission were to fail I believe Audi would -- eventually -- perform the work under warranty if both parties were dealing honestly with each other; I think the danger comes in not telling a dealer or Audi the car is chipped or attempting to hide it's chipped. And, we have to remember this is a premier car for Audi in the US right now, and not a cheap one, as they attempt to pull customers away from MCB, BMW etc. so they don't want to tick us off too much -- but that doesn't mean, in specific cases, they wouldn't cover a failure. Here is a risk, and a consequence, but how probable is it that it would occur?

Another critical part, for me, of chipping my car was not going with a tuner that gave it excessive torque which is really only an outcome of the "tuner wars" going on here in the states. Also, I wanted to go with an experienced Euro tuner concentrating on German cars that also had a relationship with the car manufacturer. An attempt at reducing risk.

For those that have had poor experiences with their RS6's I feel your pain! Some cars are just destined to be "Omen Cars," ones with perpetual problems and gripes. We've all had them, and no matter how much you don't tweak them, they still break somehow! These issues are nothing to do with a conversation about whether to chip or not. Pretty much the only connection would be the increased anxiety of an owner of one of these cars if it was chipped (and really, I can't believe anyone having problem after problem with their car would then go and chip the thing!!).

I believe the risk-based approach along with nothing in excess (track day after track day, dragstrip after dragstrip) can result in a positive experience of driving a chipped RS6 . . . for a long, long time (is anyone really going to keep an RS6 a long time knowing the next version is going to be soooo tempting?!).

The chip vs. not to chip dialog is very interesting, it has its factions and heated debate on both sides. Some are comfortable with their stock car, some are on the fence (which is where I think the risk-based approach should be used) and some are just balls-to-the-wall going to tune the hell out of a car -- good on ya, just make sure you can sustain possible consequences.

And then, sometimes, you've got to do something just for the hell of it . . .

[JAXRS6]

I agree with most of your points & learned a lot from your post. Thanks!:thumb:

One experience I had warrants explanation. My 2000 S4 check engine light (CEL) came on, so I called the dealer, made appointment and showed up. And the service advisor asked me, "Are you chipped?"

Surprised but not wanting to deceive, I said yes and explained that my APR chip had programs for stock and performance modes. We agreed I should put it in stock mode & I left.

When I returned a few hours later, the service advisor and the tech both said they could find nothing wrong, "so it must be the chip." I decided to challenge that by immediately driving 1.5 miles to the home of a young man with a master's in automotive engineering whose S4 did 12.8 in the quarter -- yet it was a fine daily driver too. "Mr. Piggie," as he was known on another forum, plugged in VAG-COM and produced a printout which I showed to the dealer. The tech said "Hmmm...." and the end result was a new MAF under warranty. The CEL hasn't been on since.

So, yes, Audi stepped up to the plate in the end. But only after I took the time and got help from a friend to document a legitimate challenge to the dealer's initial conclusion.:argue:

PS -- Mr. Piggie no longer lives nearby. But since I'm not chipped, it's OK.