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Erik
December 23rd, 2002, 16:49
I hear rumors that the new S4 beats the M3 and AMG C32 in the latest edition of german Auto, Motor und Sport.

Anyone who has AMS 1/2003?

Audi S4 quattro 523 pts :bow:
MB C32 AMG 512 pts
BMW M3 487 pts

Reno
December 23rd, 2002, 20:02
Nope, but now i certainly will buy it:D :D

krm
December 23rd, 2002, 21:15
woo, please someone scan the article for those of us in places deprived of such publications. :race:

tifosi
December 24th, 2002, 09:14
with heavier weight, only 1bhp advantage over M3 and no power advantage over C32, very very very bad weight distrubution, and a lazy heavy V8 that doesn't seems to like to rev high.

i really doubt if the new S4 will outperform M3 or C32 on any track besides rally course!

Reno
December 24th, 2002, 11:38
Yep, i got it, and indeed the S4 wins with 523 points . their conclusion says it all : "Ein prachtvoller V8-Motor und erstklassige fahreigenschaften setzen den MaStab in der Klasse der hochkarätigen Sportlimousinen. Mehr comfort wurde das Bild abrunden":D

One half of me is totally happy, but the other half is quite sad:vsad2: :vsad: because the C32 beats the M3:error:

Mr Janne
December 27th, 2002, 00:30
As a BMW-enthusiast I have to write something here:) As they say in the conclusion the BMW is the most sporty car, as usual. It also has the best acceleration, best brakes and the lowest fuel-consumption. Where it loses to the other cars seems to be practicality(not strange because it´s only a 2-door), high costs and, believe it or not in a test of sporty cars, "der schlechteren SCHADSTOFFEINSTUFUNG !! ". They are apparently different cars and which one you chooses depends on what you are looking for, as always.

Erik
December 29th, 2002, 14:12
From mbworld.org

[Accel. 0-200 KMH]

0-----------------80-----100-----120-----160------200-----KM/H
Audi------------4,5----5,7-----8,2-----13,2-----21,0
BMW----------3,5----4,8-----6,5-----10,9-----16,8
Mercedes-----3,7----5,0-----6,7-----11,1-----16,9
--------------------------------------
Quarter mile (400meter):
Audi: 14,0
BMW: 13,0
Mercedes: 13,2
--------------------------------------
Max speed: all 250 km/h
--------------------------------------

[Brakes]

100 km/h cold m(m/s²):
Audi: 35,7 (10,8)
BMW: 35,7 (10,8)
Mercedes: 37,8 (10,2)

80% V/max:
Audi: 145,6(10,6)
BMW:145,6(10,6)
Mercedes: 142,5(10,4)

100 km/h warm m(m/s²):
Audi: 37,1 (10,4)
BMW: 35,7 (10,8)
Mercedes: 37,5 (10,3)
--------------------------------------

[Slalom]

Slalom 18 m empty/loaded km/h:
Audi: 65,5/64,2
BMW: 66,8/65,3
Mercedes: 63,2/62,9

ISO Wegtest:
Audi: 129,4/126,9
BMW: 135,2/134,2
Mercedes: 129,8/127,3
--------------------------------------

[Price]
(no options)
Audi: 52420.- ¤
BMW: 54000.- ¤
Mercedes: 57130.- ¤


Result:
1. Audi: Very good V8 engine and very good riding quality is making the norm in this class of topclass sport sedans. But more comfort would fit better here. The manual transmission
is not as good as the BMW one.

2. Mercedes: With automatic transmission and comfortable chassis the C 32 is not representing the uncompromising sporty vehicle like the other competitors. The only deficit that makes it get the second place is the high consumption. For large distances the C 32 is the first choice!

3. BMW: A very good sport sedan - very fast, very loud, very hard (chassis). It needs less fuel than the other competitors but the high fixed costs foil this advantage. For long rides the BMW chassis is too hard and the endine is too loud above 5000 rpm. This car is more for the track - not for the streets.

itisme
December 29th, 2002, 19:22
I scanned everything.. should i post it?I posted it yet in an other forum :) its bad quality cause it`s little

Erik
December 29th, 2002, 23:27
Originally posted by itisme
I scanned everything.. should i post it?I posted it yet in an other forum :) its bad quality cause it`s little

Please post if you can.

johann
December 30th, 2002, 14:18
That M3 was fast and the C32 was extremly fast, did they test the cars downhill? :hihi:

itisme
December 30th, 2002, 14:48
Yes i can ;):D..

on we go:

1. page (http://nfs4-forum.gamigo.de/attachment.php?postid=244985)


2. page (http://nfs4-forum.gamigo.de/attachment.php?postid=244986)

3. page (http://nfs4-forum.gamigo.de/attachment.php?postid=244987)
3. page (http://nfs4-forum.gamigo.de/attachment.php?postid=244988)

4. page (http://nfs4-forum.gamigo.de/attachment.php?postid=244989)

5. page (http://nfs4-forum.gamigo.de/attachment.php?postid=244991)
5. page (http://nfs4-forum.gamigo.de/attachment.php?postid=244992)

i linked them cause it first worked fine but now not.. don`t know why :)..

Mr Janne
December 30th, 2002, 23:14
Originally posted by johann
That M3 was fast and the C32 was extremly fast, did they test the cars downhill? :hihi:

I think it was that new 5-speed automatic gearbox reffered to in the test that made the M3 so quick:)

The C32 must have really good brakes because in the "Ansprechverhalten bremsen" it recieves 9 points out of 5. Impressive:)

itisme
December 31st, 2002, 12:57
"Ansprechverhalten Bremsen" Is not how good the brakes work its how the way you push the pedal and the work from now and the feeling while braking... difficult to explain.. like when you touch the brake-pedal(?) and it brakes in exact that way you want it.. so.. hope you understand what I mean?

the other think that say, that the brakes are good is the "Bremsweg" its the way the car passes while braking extremly hard.

if U meant it as i said, I´m sorry :)

Mr Janne
December 31st, 2002, 15:47
Originally posted by itisme
"Ansprechverhalten Bremsen" Is not how good the brakes work its how the way you push the pedal and the work from now and the feeling while braking... difficult to explain.. like when you touch the brake-pedal(?) and it brakes in exact that way you want it.. so.. hope you understand what I mean?

the other think that say, that the brakes are good is the "Bremsweg" its the way the car passes while braking extremly hard.

if U meant it as i said, I´m sorry :)

Thanks for the explanation but my point was the it recieved 9 points out of 5 possible. So the feeling of the pedal must be really really good then:)

Happy new year:cheers:

itisme
January 1st, 2003, 16:42
Originally posted by Mr Janne


Thanks for the explanation but my point was the it recieved 9 points out of 5 possible. So the feeling of the pedal must be really really good then:)

Happy new year:cheers:


*lol* uuuuupppss :D.. didn`t see :D.. yes really impressive :).. perhaps you must only think and then it brakes immediately ;):D..

so happy new year, too... may all your wishes come true :)

:cheers:

krm
January 2nd, 2003, 05:06
Originally posted by itisme
Yes i can ;):D..
i linked them cause it first worked fine but now not.. don`t know why :)..

Thank you very much!

Best Wishes and have a Happy New Year! :race:

itisme
January 3rd, 2003, 17:02
S4 won in the "Auto Zeitung", too.. they tested only the M3 contra Audi S4.. just if anybody cares :D:.

Nrn
January 3rd, 2003, 17:44
Originally posted by itisme
S4 won in the "Auto Zeitung", too.. they tested only the M3 contra Audi S4.. just if anybody cares :D:.

Of course we care, just as long as the S4 wins ;)

BR /Nicke

zonek
January 3rd, 2003, 22:06
I was curious to read the perfs of the new S4, but I am a bit disapointed to see this (posted by ErikB)

0-----------------80-----100-----120-----160------200-----KM/H
Audi------------4,5----5,7-----8,2-----13,2-----21,0
BMW----------3,5----4,8-----6,5-----10,9-----16,8
Mercedes-----3,7----5,0-----6,7-----11,1-----16,9

(400meter):
Audi: 14,0
BMW: 13,0
Mercedes: 13,2

The new S4 is simply not as quick as the C32 & the M3. 4 seconds more lost until 200 is a lot, 1 second lost only for 400 m is also a lot.

Worse, I do not see any big improvement in comparison with the previous S4, which I think was doing about the same numbers with only 265 HP. Does someone have the same measures for the previous S4 (without chip)?

Sure the brakes have been improved, but otherwise?:confused:

I thought this V8 would do better.:mad:

tifosi
January 3rd, 2003, 22:27
Originally posted by zonek
I was curious to read the perfs of the new S4, but I am a bit disapointed to see this (posted by ErikB)

0-----------------80-----100-----120-----160------200-----KM/H
Audi------------4,5----5,7-----8,2-----13,2-----21,0
BMW----------3,5----4,8-----6,5-----10,9-----16,8
Mercedes-----3,7----5,0-----6,7-----11,1-----16,9

(400meter):
Audi: 14,0
BMW: 13,0
Mercedes: 13,2

The new S4 is simply not as quick as the C32 & the M3. 4 seconds more lost until 200 is a lot, 1 second lost only for 400 m is also a lot.

Worse, I do not see any big improvement in comparison with the previous S4, which I think was doing about the same numbers with only 265 HP. Does someone have the same measures for the previous S4 (without chip)?

Sure the brakes have been improved, but otherwise?:confused:

I thought this V8 would do better.:mad:


it's alright i guess

Audi never intended to make an S4 with a performance that's superior than a M3 or perhaps a C32. they only wanted the performance of the car to be able to be comparable with M3 and C32, but with lower MSRP which hopefully will attract buyer who can't afford those 2 high performance cars.

it is RS4 which Audi is extremly serious about! especailly in beating competitors like M3 and C32 possibly even close/surpass to the performance of M5 or E55!

Reno
January 3rd, 2003, 22:55
i don't quite like the idea of puting a V8 in a car like the S4, it can never be as sportive as a V6TT . I've read Audi wants to make it with this S4 in the US and therefor they've chosen this V8. on the other hand it's better because now there will be a bigger distinction with the RS4 (Rumours on RSx forum say 3.0TT, i hope this is true)
:rs4addict

Mr Janne
January 4th, 2003, 00:22
Originally posted by Reno
i don't quite like the idea of puting a V8 in a car like the S4, it can never be as sportive as a V6TT . I've read Audi wants to make it with this S4 in the US and therefor they've chosen this V8. on the other hand it's better because now there will be a bigger distinction with the RS4 (Rumours on RSx forum say 3.0TT, i hope this is true)
:rs4addict

I don´t think the previous S4 had a very "sporty" engine. It didn´t have a fun character and didn´t sound very sporty either, without tuning that is of course.

Btw, for example the Ferrari 360 Modena and the F40 both have V8 engines. And of course the BMW M5 has a wonderful V8:)

tifosi
January 4th, 2003, 00:50
personally, i don't think it's about how many cylinders it has! it's more about the weight distrubution!!

Audi seems didn't learn the failur of C43 from Mercedes-Benz!
a V8 in a car in this size isn't going to work!!

the front of the car is going to be a lot heavier than the rear, thus leads to tremendous understeering!

Reno
January 4th, 2003, 09:53
Originally posted by Mr Janne


Btw, for example the Ferrari 360 Modena and the F40 both have V8 engines. And of course the BMW M5 has a wonderful V8:)

Yep, but that were all specially built "race car" engines, the S4 V8 seems to come right out of the new A8. But it's not that I hate V8's, it's more that i love Turbo-power!
Greetz
:rs4addict

Reno
January 4th, 2003, 10:37
Originally posted by tifosi

the front of the car is going to be a lot heavier than the rear, thus leads to tremendous understeering!

I've heard this engine isn't heavy at all. It is said to be the best driving audi in times. i've read in a dutch magazine (autovisie) that it understeers less, and that you can even adjust the angle of the steeringwheel with the throttle:0: Sounds like BMW-territory to me!! It seems like a really nice car, even with my personal dislike for the V8!

:rs4addict

Mr Janne
January 4th, 2003, 11:01
Originally posted by tifosi
personally, i don't think it's about how many cylinders it has! it's more about the weight distrubution!!

Audi seems didn't learn the failur of C43 from Mercedes-Benz!
a V8 in a car in this size isn't going to work!!

the front of the car is going to be a lot heavier than the rear, thus leads to tremendous understeering!

This engine weighs the same as the old S4-engine according to Audi.

zonek
January 4th, 2003, 13:26
tifosi> if Audi customers have to wait the RS series to compete with the sporty series of Mercedes or BMW, I wonder if this is a good strategy.:confused:

MrJanne> I love the way my standard S4 sounds! I agree with you it is not the ultimate sport car, but it seems the V8 does not better with almost 100 HP more! :confused:

tifosi
January 4th, 2003, 18:06
i've heard S4 has a weight distrubution of 60:40 some where else (can't recall where it was)

can someone comfirm this?!

Erik
January 5th, 2003, 13:59
Originally posted by tifosi
i've heard S4 has a weight distrubution of 60:40 some where else (can't recall where it was)

can someone comfirm this?!

RS6 has 60/40, I would guess the new S4 is better but I have no figure yet.

Erik
January 5th, 2003, 16:57
From AMS

"AUDI S4: A splendourful V8-Motor and first-class handling characteristics set the yardstick in the class of the hochkaraetigen sport sedans. More comfort would round the picture off."

tifosi
January 5th, 2003, 20:03
Originally posted by Erik B


RS6 has 60/40, I would guess the new S4 is better but I have no figure yet.

RS6 sedan?? or avant??

by the way, that's a pretty bad distrubution!!

Erik
January 5th, 2003, 20:41
Originally posted by tifosi
RS6 sedan?? or avant??


RS6 Sedan.

Xr8edS4
January 10th, 2003, 05:13
All I can say is tha the S4 is the all-round performer for ALL seasons. :D

johann
January 11th, 2003, 02:28
There is no doubt that a car with AWD performs better in snow and wet than a car with RWD.

However, when do you enjoy your car most in dry, wet or snow?

Cheers,
/Johan

Xr8edS4
January 11th, 2003, 02:36
Originally posted by johann
There is no doubt that a car with AWD performs better in snow and wet than a car with RWD.

However, when do you enjoy your car most in dry, wet or snow?

Cheers,
/Johan

The fact that the car is forgiving for everyday driving (snow, wet and dry) yet able to hold its own on the track is what makes it the all-roundperformer.

I think one's choice is dependent on what one seeks to get out of the car and what goals one has for it. :D

Nrn
January 11th, 2003, 02:45
Originally posted by johann
There is no doubt that a car with AWD performs better in snow and wet than a car with RWD.

However, when do you enjoy your car most in dry, wet or snow?

Cheers,
/Johan

I personally (hope i dont get kicked out of community ;) ) could do just aswell with RWD since i dont drive my TT in the winter! But on the other hand its good fun driving quattro in the wet! :D

So I dont really care if its 4WD or RWD, but since its quite a long winter at least here in sweden I can well understand those who prefer quattro!

Both has benefits, its just a matter of taste as I see it! :incar:

BR /Nicke

johann
January 12th, 2003, 03:20
Originally posted by Xr8edS4


The fact that the car is forgiving for everyday driving (snow, wet and dry) yet able to hold its own on the track is what makes it the all-roundperformer.

I think one's choice is dependent on what one seeks to get out of the car and what goals one has for it. :D

That was like a politician's answer to my question. ;)

Xr8edS4
January 12th, 2003, 03:47
Originally posted by johann


That was like a politician's answer to my question. ;)

Maybe I have opted for the wrong career (medicine).

I own an S4 but love the M3. In an ideal world, I would have both (along with an RS6 for the weekends :addict: ).

Cheers,

~X

johann
January 12th, 2003, 04:38
Originally posted by Xr8edS4


Maybe I have opted for the wrong career (medicine).

I own an S4 but love the M3. In an ideal world, I would have both (along with an RS6 for the weekends :addict: ).

Cheers,

~X

:)

I was trying to point out that most of us enjoy driving when conditons are good; i.e. nice weather, dry roads and good visibility; wheter we drive a car with AWD, FWD, RWD or rocket engine. :)

Cheers,
/Johan

Andreas.ka
January 16th, 2003, 08:14
M3 is the ultimate sportscar and has a better looking than the new S4. So my weapon of choice would be the M3:roll:

Erik
January 16th, 2003, 15:15
The S4 won over the M3 in another test, Auto Zeitung.

Regarding the ultimate sportscar, I would probably go for a Ferrari or a Porsche. Not a BMW or an Audi in any case...

Xr8edS4
January 16th, 2003, 17:15
I agree with Erik. If all I was looking for was a sportscar, the S4 and M3 would not be at the top....it would likely be a Ferrari or forced fed P-car.

Cheers,

~X


Originally posted by Erik B
The S4 won over the M3 in another test, Auto Zeitung.

Regarding the ultimate sportscar, I would probably go for a Ferrari or a Porsche. Not a BMW or an Audi in any case...

johann
January 16th, 2003, 18:54
Originally posted by Erik B
The S4 won over the M3 in another test, Auto Zeitung.

Regarding the ultimate sportscar, I would probably go for a Ferrari or a Porsche. Not a BMW or an Audi in any case...

Which Porsche or Ferrari would that be then, clearly not a 996 Carrera, right? :roll:

Erik
January 16th, 2003, 19:07
There are many nice Porsches out there, if you want to be really fast go for GT2, GT3, 991 Turbo etc.
A Ferrari 360 is nice too but price performance the M3 is very good. 8.22 min at the Ring is not bad at all,which will be faster than the new S4 definetly. But most people don't race their cars there though, they just want a fast and safe transport for themselves and the family.

Andreas.ka
January 17th, 2003, 07:59
Big deal if the S4 wins over M3, if u want a car to drive take the M3 if u want more comfort take the S4. In the end its what u prefer and because the M3 is a more goodlooking than the S4 I would take the BMW. Besides the M3 is cheaper than the S4.
So u all can say what u want about the S4, the M3 is my weapon of choice..always.

By the way, its always the newer car that wins tests, so when the new M3 comes, that car will win every test.

"Audi is good but BMW is greater":argue:

Nrn
January 17th, 2003, 10:03
In the magazines Ive read they have all predicted the S4 to be the cheaper of the two? So are the prices set since you claim its the other way around? :confused:

BR /Nicke

Andreas.ka
January 17th, 2003, 11:15
I have read that S4 is more expensive than the M3 in sweden.
and I dont doubt it since the RS4(when it came, it had the same price as a M5). Here in sweden Audis isnt cheap, RS6 cost more than the new E55 AMG too!?

Andreas.ka
January 17th, 2003, 11:18
The price I read was 580.000kr for the new S4, but we have to wait when the car starts to sell. Right!?

Erik
January 17th, 2003, 11:25
You get what you pay for :hihi:

If you read the TopGear test you can find the M3 being the most expensive. Not sure how prices in the UK compare with the rest of the EU. In Sweden have have only seen suggestions and guesstimations to what the price will be.

When I bought my Audi it was less expensive to buy it in Sweden compared to Germany.

And regarding the E55 AMG being more expensive than the RS6, well if you think a few Euros make the difference well...

Andreas.ka
January 17th, 2003, 11:52
Originally posted by Erik B
You get what you pay for :hihi:

If you read the TopGear test you can find the M3 being the most expensive. Not sure how prices in the UK compare with the rest of the EU. In Sweden have have only seen suggestions and guesstimations to what the price will be.

When I bought my Audi it was less expensive to buy it in Sweden compared to Germany.

And regarding the E55 AMG being more expensive than the RS6, well if you think a few Euros make the difference well...

Carprices changes from country to country.

I have a thought why audis is so expensive but if I tell, I will be kicked from this forum:trash:

Erik
January 17th, 2003, 11:56
Originally posted by Andreas.ka
I will be kicked from this forum:trash:

You're pretty close already... :D

Xr8edS4
January 17th, 2003, 15:53
Originally posted by Andreas.ka


Carprices changes from country to country.

I have a thought why audis is so expensive but if I tell, I will be kicked from this forum:trash:

What's nice is that I'm able to run away from E46 M3s all day in my B5 S4...rain, snow, shine and at the track with only very minor modifications. :D

johann
January 17th, 2003, 16:08
Originally posted by Xr8edS4
What's nice is that I'm able to run away from E46 M3s all day .... and at the track with only very minor modifications. :D

I am willing to challenge that. :D

Andreas.ka
January 20th, 2003, 11:14
Originally posted by Xr8edS4


What's nice is that I'm able to run away from E46 M3s all day in my B5 S4...rain, snow, shine and at the track with only very minor modifications. :D


Perhaps but the M3 is better looking than the S4 and that is the most important when u buy a car,,,according to me.

Erik
January 20th, 2003, 11:23
Originally posted by Andreas.ka
Perhaps but the M3 is better looking than the S4.

Everybody can't like the same girlfriend, looks is a matter of personal taste. I like the looks of both cars, the M3 being a little bit more aggressive.

Had the favour of driving an M3 this weekend, it's very very fast!

Nrn
January 20th, 2003, 19:42
Originally posted by Erik B

Had the favour of driving an M3 this weekend, it's very very fast!

Now im jealous! :vsad:
Id also like to take the M3 for a spin! I was close :) but the dealership had never heard of the expression: Service minded! :( But Ill get round to it, to check if I can outrun them this summer :D

BR /Nicke

johann
January 21st, 2003, 16:17
Originally posted by Erik B
Had the favour of driving an M3 this weekend, it's very very fast!

Except of being fast, how did you like it?

Erik
January 21st, 2003, 16:21
Originally posted by johann
Except of being fast, how did you like it?

Like it a lot :bow:

Can I please try it again when there's no other traffic and dry tarmac :)

johann
January 21st, 2003, 16:24
Originally posted by Erik B


Like it a lot :bow:

Can I please try it again when there's no other traffic and dry tarmac :)

:)

Anytime! :cheers:

/Johan

acadia
January 23rd, 2003, 23:17
In the B5 S4. The weight distrubution hasn't changed from the B5 S4 to the B6 S4 for all those people making assumptions because they heard the word V8.

Now how about that V8tt from the RS6 being made ready for the RS4. Forget a 3.0 v6tt, V8tt 420HP loving, and I'm all gold!!!