Seeking tire recommendations

[JAXRS6]

My beast and the Pirelli P Zeros that came with it are at 16,500 miles, so it's time to start looking for tires. Would especially like to hear from owners who have experienced any of these on their RS6, since this is what I know or have been told is available in the US (with my biases in parentheses). US cars came with Dunlops or Pirellis, right? -- so I'm hoping members in Europe will post experiences with Bridgestones, Michelins & others:

- Dunlop 9000, IIRC (one post here said his shed chunks during track use)

- Pirelli P Zeros (I'm pleased with mine, never had them to a track, but one post here said they did fine for 2 days at track)

- Bridgestone S02s or S03s (FL source said Monday that S03s are now shown as available for the RS6, which was welcome news to me; I've enjoyed their excellent traction -- road & track, wet & dry -- on A4 and S4)

- Michelin Pilot Sport, IIRC (said to be very close to S03s)

I think my source mentioned another brand, maybe Japanese, but I lost my notes. But any performance tire with good traction in all conditions (except winter of course) that fits is of interest, and I hope to get no noisier than the S03s. They're not terribly loud, just loud enough.

Most prices quoted today were in low to mid 200s USD per tire, so price may not be much of a factor (among the ones shown anyway). My spring plans could include a driving course at Sebring, if my car is running good. Unlikely that I'll keep tracking the RS6, tho, since I have an '00 S4 6-spd for that.

Any suggestions, recommendations, comments, additions to the list, etc.?:looking:

[highrustler]

I just ordered the new Pilot Sport 2 (PS2). These have not been released in the states yet, but Michelin is days away from launching a marketing campaign. Tire Rack has been importing the PS2 in small quantities from Europe. I can only tell you they are awesome looking but I don't know the performance gain as I've not installed my new wheels yet. They are said to be superior to the PS1. Call Oscar (ext. 286) at the Tire Rack and he'll give ya the low down. He said they were hands down the best tire he's ever used on his Audi.

James

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+PS2&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=535YR9SPORTPS2XL&fromCompare1=yes

[Bauer]

I had the Dunlop 9000's and was fairly happy with them. I think as far as a every day tire they are fine. Put them on the track, push them and they will chunk off in pieces.

I have since put on the S0-2's on and I love them...except that they are noisier then the Dulops.

I have had Pilot Sports in the past (on our S8) and I was happy with their traction. However, for how expensive they are I dont think they are worth it. $100 more per tire to me is just too much and I think the SO-2's handel better. I have been told the SO-2 will wear fairly quickly but so did the Pilot Sports.

Oh and some of the US spec RS6's did get the Pilot Sports from the factory.

I dont have any experience with the Pirelli's except I got a ride in a RS4 at Thunderhill in January that was wearing them. The driver (former race car driver) of the car who ownes a two car A4 race team (speed GT) said he was surpries with how well pirellis handled the track. I must say they were fairly quite....much quietier then the Dunlops when pushed.

Hope this helps and good luck

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
My beast and the Pirelli P Zeros that came with it are at 16,500 miles, so it's time to start looking for tires.
Any suggestions, recommendations, comments, additions to the list, etc.?:looking:

As with your's my Beast also came with Pirellis. I've had them at the track, in great weather, in total down pour, heck, i've even had them in the snow while it was snowing! Overall i've been very impressed with their performance. Like Bauer noted with his Dunlops, the only possible complaint i have with the Pirellis is that i do not find them to be very quiet. Other than that a great choice to stick with.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[Bauer]

Like Bauer noted with his Dunlops, the only possible complaint i have with the Pirellis is that i do not find them to be very quiet.

The Dunlops are quiet...the SO-2's are not....sorry if I made that confusing.:confused: :D

[oregonbob]

Check out the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3. According to the Tire Rack website, it has equvalent handling in its category with superior ride comfort, noise and wear for about the same price. I have no first hand experience to offer but there are over 300 comments on the Tire Rack website.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+F1+GS-D3&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=54YR8F1GSD3&fromCompare1=yes

Bob

[Benman]

Originally posted by Bauer
I dont have any experience with the Pirelli's except I got a ride in a RS4 at Thunderhill in January that was wearing them. The driver (former race car driver) of the car who ownes a two car A4 race team (speed GT) said he was surpries with how well pirellis handled the track. I must say they were fairly quite....much quietier then the Dunlops when pushed.

Hope this helps and good luck
Sorry Ben. I took this as the Dunlops being a bit noisy.:cheers:

But i guess you were refering to the "squeeling":D

Ben:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by oregonbob
Check out the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3

I did -- thanks, oregonbob! I've heard of these, wasn't sure of availability or fit for an RS6, but my local Goodyear dealer says they will work on the RS6 & can be had at $282 ea. I'm thinking about it, along with everything else posted here. Thanks again!
(Edit: earlier I quoted prices here but some included install & balance while others I'm not sure about, so I removed that text.)

[7:53 RS6]

Like Bauer I think the Dunlop 9000 sucks on track. Ran Nurburgring last year whit RS4, and when D9000 overheat big pices fly off!
From my knowledge Nurburgring is kind to rubber due to the high speed (cooling ). Ran some short slower tracks in Sweden and it was totaly distroyd.
This has never happend when I used Michelin, ok they all wear down by these hevy cars, but not like the D9000!
7-11april Im going to Nurburgring whit Erik and PVs 996TT and my RS6 Avant 19"BBS Ch and Conti. But in the back trunk 18" rims and Pirelli pzero Corsa, hope to have some more fun, more grip and more laps. And of course save alot of money by not wearing down the Contis ,they cost me more than twice the pzero corsa. Also the regular street rubber like D9000 Conti and other will not last as long as pzero corsa and simular on track(this is what I heard ). Whit the right load index on the corsa i hope this will work. Hope to see more RS6 this weekend!!
PS sorry for my por english.
8:50 RS4
"learn by doing"







:race: :race:

[highrustler]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
I did -- thanks, oregonbob! I've heard of these, wasn't sure of availability or fit for an RS6, but my local Goodyear dealer says they will work on the RS6 & can be had at $282 ea. I'm thinking about it, along with everything else posted here. Thanks again!
(Edit: earlier I quoted prices here but some included install & balance while others I'm not sure about, so I removed that text.)

The Goodyear's are on sale at Tire Rack for $214. At this price, they are definitely worth a try!

James

[highrustler]

Anyone try the new Bridgestone Potenza RE50? I don't see an 18" but they are available in 255/35-19. They are the OEM choice for the MB E55 and Ferrari Enzo. Must be one heck of a tire. The price is right at $241 each. Here’s the link:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE050&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=535YR9RE050AXL&fromCompare1=yes

james

[Benman]

Originally posted by 8:50 RS4
But in the back trunk 18" rims and Pirelli pzero Corsa, hope to have some more fun, more grip and more laps. And of course save alot of money by not wearing down the Contis ,they cost me more than twice the pzero corsa.

:race: :race:
Now there are some tires as long as your main concern is HANDLING!!! Curious. Are they really that much cheaper than the Contis?:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Thank you all -- very informative! Ditto for this survey:
:idea:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/max.jsp

Special thanks to oregonbob, whose link got me to the survey...and to highrustler, for pointing out the sale price that I missed when I looked the first time. I'm leaning towards the Goodyears but was heartened to see my other top choices so far, the S03s and P Zeros, ranked 2nd and 3rd.

I'm wondering if Toyo, not on the list, is the Japanese brand someone mentioned earlier to me, since Toyo is doing the tires for Champion's racing RS6s. Does anyone know if Toyo has an RS6 tire for the street? If not now, maybe soon?

[7:53 RS6]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Benman
Now there are some tires as long as your main concern is HANDLING!!! Curious. Are they really that much cheaper than the Contis?:cheers:
Ben:addict: [/QUOTE

even on recomended price list they are much cheaper, but I get pzero corsa 18" for 215 euro a pice and list price is 326-400eur. And they should last longer on track if onley used ther, comperd to normal street tires. In the end I think it will be cheaper if you have the extra setup of 18"rims and the avant to load them in(ha,ha:)just kidding about avant.

(By the way, this place is perfect to improve my english!)

8:50 RS4:race:
"learn by doing"

[Nordschleife]

Toyo is the series tyre - it could be good, bad or indifferent its the same for everybody. Toyos in Europe are popular on RS4s in the UK, because they are comparatively cheap for the performance offered.
The Yokohama AVS Sport is an excellent tyre, but make sure is is made to European specs and has a load rating of at least 96, in the 19 inch size you have to go oversize, which is no bad thing as it gives better rim protection.
The tyre all the hot shoes get from the factory is the Continental Sport Contact 2 - in 19 inch 96 load rating (and the 2 is very important). Its strictly a summer tyre, its excellent under aquaplaning conditions at high speed, part of the tread is positively sticky, like a slick. I far prefer the handling characteristics of the car on the 19 inch wheels and the braking is greatly enhanced.
For a DOT legal tyre which will give best performance on the track look to the Michelin Pilot Sport CUP tyre or the only slightly slower Pirelli PZero CORSA. These are expensive and don't offer great milage burt they are excellent tyres.
Do take care with the description of these tyres, if ordering them, the names are very like those of regular tyres. It is also really important to select a load rating of 96 or higher, for two reasons, one is safety at speed, and the other is that as the load rating goes up, the internal construction of the tyre changes and this changes the behavioural characteristics of the tyre. Also, I well remember last year, taking a tyre off a car after a high speed test(over 200 mph), the inside was in ribbons, if that had burst at speed, I prefer not to think of the consequences.
I do think it is a good idea to be very careful with the results of tyre comparisons which are based upon customer opinions, very few customers are judging from an informed view point and most are justifying their purchase, even comparing new tyre X with old tyre Y is not terribly helpful, if you think about it.
HTH
R+C

[AlanN]

I have to say that for once I'm very happy with the tyres that came on my car, the Conti SC2's mentioned above, they really are very good indeed.

From other vehicles I can highly recommend AVS Sport's too, although tyres can and do perform extremely differently on different vehicles of course and I've not driven an RS6 with them fitted.

For "road legal" track tyres, the Pilot Sport Cup has no betters IMHO, had them on my Porsche and they were fantastic for a "road" tyre.

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by AlanN
I have to say that for once I'm very happy with the tyres that came on my car, the Conti SC2's mentioned above, they really are very good indeed.

From other vehicles I can highly recommend AVS Sport's too, although tyres can and do perform extremely differently on different vehicles of course and I've not driven an RS6 with them fitted.

For "road legal" track tyres, the Pilot Sport Cup has no betters IMHO, had them on my Porsche and they were fantastic for a "road" tyre.


Yes Alan, but then not only do you like driving, but you CAN drive, can't say that about many people, unfortunately.

R+C

[avdh]

According to Tirerack.com comparo test, the new Michelin Pilot Sport 2 is the better than the Bridgestone S03 (My favourite), and the latest version of the GY
F1

GY vs. B/Stone vs. Michelin (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/mi_ps2_nextGen.jsp)

Graphs (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/mi_ps2_nextGen_c.html)

[oregonbob]

Great chart. But with results that close, I'd go for price and availability. My local Costco carries Michelin and, from past experience, they are very competitive with Tire Rack prices after factoring shipping, mounting and balancing. I don't know if they carry Bridgestone or Good Year.

Bob

[nene]

I can't personally speak for any of the tires mentioned on the graph, but I'm sure it's quite comparable to what I would have noticed had I tested them.
However, one thing that I usually consider is the sidewall strength as well. I've had very good experience with Michelin Pilot Sports, in that they won't bubble as easily when hitting potholes, and they've saved my rims countless times. Being that I drive in horrendous Bostonian roads most of the time, the sidewall strength counts very high on my chart.

[JAXRS6]

Here's another Tirerack comparison, this time a test putting the newer Michelin PS2 on top compared to GY and S03s -- especially in performance:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/mi_ps2_nextGen_c.html

:argue:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/mi_ps2_nextGen.jsp

[TaTaPiRaTa]

PS2 looks good but I don't see Beast's sizes avail....

:rs6kiss:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by TaTaPiRaTa
PS2 looks good but I don't see Beast's sizes avail.

Champion says they can get the PS2 for my RS6. In fact Bobby there recommends it as first choice; on sale via Tirerack at $253 ea.

Is there something specific I should ask him re fitment? These are the guys racing the RS6 at Sebring soon, so I figured he would know. Then again I don't want to "assume" anything if you know what I mean, esp. since the racing RS6 is not the same as ours.

[avdh]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Here's another Tirerack comparison, this time a test putting the newer Michelin PS2 on top compared to GY and S03s -- especially in performance:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/mi_ps2_nextGen_c.html

:argue:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/mi_ps2_nextGen.jsp

Heuhmmm, JAXRS6, I don't know if you've noticed but your links are exactly the same as those I have posted above..... :)

[JAXRS6]

You're right, advh, about my second link being the same as the one you provided. Sorry for the confusion. At least the first link I gave showed a comparison chart rather than the same article.

[TaTaPiRaTa]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Champion says they can get the PS2 for my RS6.

But only 19" !!!

I can't find 255/40-18 :confused:

Anybody knows if there will be one that size?

:rs6kiss:

[TheBrit]

Originally posted by AlanN
I have to say that for once I'm very happy with the tyres that came on my car, the Conti SC2's mentioned above, they really are very good indeed.
I really can't fault the CSC2 either. My car came with P Zeros on, and they were terrible in cold weather, especially on wet and greasy roads. Because we only get a few days snow here in an average winter, it really isn't generally worth getting M+S tyres IMHO, so I stuck with them into spring. After 7k miles, they were down to the tread block on all four wheels (I really thought the fronts would get much more of a beating than the back).

I'd enjoyed the CSC on my S8, so trying some CSC2 on the RS 6 seemed like a given. I get around 11k out of a set before the shoulder blocks start to look worn out, and although they're not a winter tyre, I've kept them on this winter and even had a couple of days with a couple of inches of snow, but no problems climbing hills (carefully) that lesser 4WD vehicles have struggled on. I'm impressed with their wet performance as well, which is more important to me than dry performance. The only small gripe is noise and a little harshness on poor quality urban roads, but you can't have everything can you?

[avdh]

Like Chris (The Brit) I am not very found of the Pirelli P Zero Rosso.

I had them on my S6 and eventually I came to dislike them, specially after a track day.

On the track, they were 2 seconds slower than the Bridgestone S-03's on the same 2.4 km (1.5 mile) track.
When they got really hot (remember the S6 is nearly as heavy as the RS6), they became very slippery.

Another thing I did not like was the lack of road feedback, although they were quite predictable.

I still have P Zero's on the S3, not as bad, but not as good as the original Bridgestone RE040 the S3 came with.

In the road feedback department the Dunlop SP 9000 RS seem to be only marginally better.

[Pulse]

Mine came with Michelin Pilot Sport AS. And although I have 5,200 miles on them, they seem to be holding up very well.

I think that if your looking for an Ultra High Performance, All Season tire, the Pirelli's or Michelin's are the way to go.

[TaTaPiRaTa]

Does anybody know anything about :
Continental Conti Sport Contact M3 255/40ZR18

that is what my dealer offers for summer driving, I can also get:
Dunlop SP Sport 9000 255/40R18Y XL
and
Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 255/40R18.

We have very bad quality roads so I need your input guys...


:rs6kiss: :rs6kiss: :rs6kiss:

[AlanN]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Yes Alan, but then not only do you like driving, but you CAN drive, can't say that about many people, unfortunately.

R+C

You flatter me Sir :D

However what you say is 100% IMHO, what may indeed be a "good tyre" to you and I will be "an annoying source of noise" to others!

You at LeMans this year?
I may be there if I can swing the time, must be able to cadge a beer or two from you by now!

Back to the subject, the CSC2's are, like any other "road" tyre, a compromise.
In my opinion in 4k miles of driving my Avant, they are a very good match for the car.
I wouldn't call them a good wet tyre but they "cope".
In the dry they're pretty good actually.

Next week, I will be fortunate enough to get to try some AVS's on the RS6's standard (19") wheels, (I run on the Sportec wheels with the CSC2s) so I will post my impressions toward the end of the week.
I am very fortunate to have a good mate who owns a very large tyre outfit here in the UK :wo:

BTW my brakes are fecked so I will very soon be looking at an upgrade...and I am NOT particularly hard on brakes even with my track car :(

[Nordschleife]

Alan

You would not believe it, this year Le Mans and the Nuerburgring 24 Hours are the same weekend. So I'm thinking about going to the Nuerburgring where there are several teams which I have 'connections' with. Also, Joest is not running anything at Le Mans this year and last year I seriously took the piss out of the gendarmerie to the extent that they were chasing me with a chopper and caught four C5 'vettes in a road block, who were also chasing me - so maybe I should just cool it, but on the good side I did find a very nice little hotel to hide in in the outskirts of Orleans!

I have found the CSC2s to cope with aquaplaning very well, even at great speed I wasn't unduly worried as I felt each wheel plane and then regain grip, quite impressive really.

I always tell people that I'm not hard on brakes, and I really think I'm not, but as my brake guy points out I have to stop the car from far higher speeds than most, so this is where the damage is done.

Guido has some new brakes which I will be testing on an M3 CSL and a Gallardo, real soon now, If they hold up, as I expect them to, then I guess I'll have to fool around with a VW Cayenne Turbo the lardiest car on the road.

I'm also looking at some interesting suspension developments........ More later.

Robin

[JAXRS6]

Major update, I think: Luke Pavlick at Tirerack says in email, "your car requires an extra load tire and Bridgestone does not offer an extra load tire."

So much for the S03s, or S02s for that matter -- at least according to Luke. I don't recall exact numbers because I was driving when we talked, but I think he said an "extra load tire" has a standard of 1700 lbs or more. When I asked about the Goodyear D3s he quoted a figure of something below 1600. (I also asked who specified that an extra load tire is required; he said Audi.)

So much for GY, too, if someone can confirm that this is a legitimate issue. It seems logical, tho, to have extra-capable tires to handle the beast's heavy front bias.

I've called both of the FL Audi dealers whose motorsports divisions quoted me on S03s and GY, but reached only voice mail so I don't have their side on this yet. But it seemed important enough to post now, before someone uses this thread to buy tires that may not be strong enough.

[Nordschleife]

If you are going to drive a big heavy car fast, then the load rating is important.
For the RS6, the mandated load rating on the side of the tyre is 96, you should select tyres with a load rating of 96 or higher.
The tyre construction changes as the load rating goes up.
The road safety authorities in Germany insist that all cars have tyres of adequate load rating, if not then the car is not to be used and in the event of an accident, insurance is invalidated and the driver will be prosecuted. So its quite serious stuff.
In Germany, and some other countries, all modifications have to be entered on the car's papers, to be eligable all modified parts have to be approved by the safety testing authorities.
I have seen what happens to tyres at high speed, I would not compromise on load ratings.

R+C

[TheBrit]

I was just about to repost your earlier note about 96 load rated tyres. Yes, it's so important - shame then that Audi dealers here often have to be told by the customer that only the Extra Load tyres should be fitted because they just weren't aware. I wonder how many RS 6 owners here are running on their second or later sets of tyres unaware that they're not really suitable to carry the weight they are doing?

[Benman]

This thread is gaining more and more of my interest. Before i was convinced i'd get the P Zeros when i need a new set. Now i'm thinking Contis.

[Bauer]

Before i was convinced i'd get the P Zeros when i need a new set. Now i'm thinking Contis.


What about those Toyo's you've got coming?

[JAXRS6]

One of the dealer vendors I spoke to late today said the "extra load" issue is, indeed, real and I should pay heed to recommendations from Luke at Tirerack per my earlier post. Tires with load capacities too low are likely to fail before their time, he said. The other vendor said he would look into it & get back to me next week.

But then I went to the specs on the Michelin PS2s which Luke is recommending -- not surprising since the Tirerack comparison posted here earlier showed it superior to the S03s and GYs. But what IS surprising is that despite the earlier comments about an "extra load" standard of 1700 lbs, the spec chart for the PS2 seems to show that the only ones reaching that level are 20":

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Michelin&model=Pilot+Sport+PS2

Am I reading this wrong?:trash:
I wrote a new email to Luke but may not hear back til next week. Which is not a big problem for me, since I won't be buying tires for at least another month or so, but I'm just wondering ... does anyone have a handle on what constitutes an "extra load" tire officially, and who does the officiating? Is it DOT, for example, or maybe the tire industry itself? Or is there even such a designation?

[TheBrit]

As far as I'm aware, "Extra load" doesn't have any official designation. As Nordschleife said previously, you need a load rating of 96 - this can often be seen on the tyre, for example the CSC2 says "255/35ZR19 96Y", which is the size, load and speed rating vales.

[highrustler]

JAXRS6 -

Sure the 96 load rating may be important but at least two of the OEM tires Audi choose for the beasts DO NOT have that high of a load rating (according to the Tire Rack website specs).

All these tires have a 1521 lb. load rating in the 255/40-18 size.

P Zero Rosso
Pilot Sport
Pilot Sport PS2
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3

The TR site does not show a load rating for the Conti Sport Contact 2 or Dunlop SP Sport 9000 for the 18". The OEM size for the Conti SC2 in Europe is the 255/35YR19. This tire, according to the website, has a 1565 lb. load rating.

I'm mounting the 255/35-19 Pilot Sport PS2's today and will give feedback! I sure hope they hold up!

James

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by highrustler
JAXRS6 -

Sure the 96 load rating may be important but at least two of the OEM tires Audi choose for the beasts DO NOT have that high of a load rating (according to the Tire Rack website specs).



James

It is much safer to go to the manufacturer's web site to see the load ratings, rather than just rely on what is on the Tirerack web site. Unless the tyres have a load rating of 96 or higher, they would be illegal in Germany. Are you sure you want to drive the car with a sub-specification tyre?

It is better to go to the European web sites of the tyre manufacturers, normally they have the high performance tyres for the European cars before their release in the US. You may well find that the Euro spec tyre does meet the required load rating.
R+C

[Benman]

Originally posted by Bauer
What about those Toyo's you've got coming?

They'll be coming as well. But those will (almost) only be used at Audi events and such. I'm looking for daily replacements. I could use the Toyos as daily drivers but then with R compound i'd be replacing them 2-3 times as quickly:bigeyes: . Might run in to some $$$ issues!:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[nyrs6]

i went to tirerack website they had a tire goodyear eagle f1 Fiorano that they use on ferraris i dont know if its the one you guys are talking about.

the reason i would think its a good tire is because low stock and the price of 330 per tire and they have separate for the rear and front does anybody know if those tires are made for the track. or what is best for track use.

they look like they are the best tire thats u can get from there i might be wrong.

[nyrs6]

are these good for the track these are racing tires

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=Advan+A048&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=24YR8048&fromCompare1=yes

and what is the chepest wheel for that tire that fits the beast

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by nyrs6
[B]are these good for the track these are racing tires

Since these Yokohamas don't have the 96 load rating that's recommended above, my guess is that they shouldn't be used on the RS6 for racing, the track, or anything else. I mean, if ever there was a place where loads are high, it's the track! At the same time, tho, keep in mind that I'm no expert.

[highrustler]

Nordschleife -

I mounted the Pilot Sport PS2's on Saturday. I think all RS6 owners will be glad to know that the 255/35-19 PS2 is a "high load" tire with a load rating of 96. This information is printed on the side of each tire. I don't know if there is an 18" replacement, but if anyone has plans to go with a 19, this should be a top choice. I will shoot some pics and post them later today.

James

[highrustler]

Pilot Sport 2 (PS2) load rating on 255/35-19 tire.

[nyrs6]

hows the ride and hows the performance?

anybody know. What would be the best tire for track use, with a lot of turns?

[Benman]

Originally posted by nyrs6
What would be the best tire for track use, with a lot of turns?

What the best is i don't know. What i do know is that the Toyo Proxes RA-1 are the exact same tires used in the World Speed Challenge GT series. Those are the tires i have on order. If they are good enough for the Champion Audi Team (and for that matter the entire series) then they should work just great on my Beast!:cheers:

Ben:addict: (and they ARE street legal!)

[nyrs6]

Originally posted by Benman
What the best is i don't know. What i do know is that the Toyo Proxes RA-1 are the exact same tires used in the World Speed Challenge GT series. Those are the tires i have on order. If they are good enough for the Champion Audi Team (and for that matter the entire series) then they should work just great on my Beast!:cheers:

Ben:addict: (and they ARE street legal!)

Where do u get them?
How much do they cost?
What are you going to mount it on?18or 19s

[Nordschleife]

Guys
Some cautions about using the Toyo RA-1 as a regular street tyre - this information is from Toyo themselves:

1. The tread compound on the Proxes RA-1 is designed to operate under racing conditions.
2. To achieve optimum adhesion levels the tread must operate within a narrow temperature range.
3. This temperature range is very difficult to achieve under legal and normal street operating conditions.
4. The Proxes RA-1 tire starts with a tread depth of 8/32 of an inch which is approximately 2/3rds of the depth of a premium all season tire.
5. The combination of shallower tread and temperature sensitive tread compound requires the user to be fully aware of the performance limitations of the tire under normal legal street use.
6. The performance limitations are particularly evident during low ambient temperatures or during times of the year when the ambient temperatures fluctuate considerably as in the spring or fall periods.
7. Wet performance limitations are also evident on damp or wet roads when operating outside the optimum temperature envelope of the compound and when the tire is at less than full tread depth.
8. Winter or cold weather storage of the Proxes RA-1 is important. The tire should never be stored during the off season in temperatures lower than 0 degrees C. The tires should not be stored in an inflated condition. The optimum is completely deflated.

Best operating temperature 160 to 220 degrees F. Higher than 220 degrees F the tire performance will start to go off, although temperatures as high as 300 degrees F have been seen before blistering takes place.

Camber: Negative 2.5 degrees to negative 5 degrees acceptable. Anything less than 2.5 degrees or higher than 5 degrees negative will create some irregular wear.



This is pretty much true of all street legal semi-race tyres. All the warnings about using them in cold weather should be heeded.

A lot of guys in Europe run 3 sets of tyres through the year:

1. A Winter tyre with as low a speed rating as they can live with. Although now you can get quite good winter tyres that are ok to 240 kph. These are mounted on small diameter narrow rims for better snow performance. Examples are the Dunlop M3, Michelin Pilot Alpin Sport and the Yokohama Winter AVS. This last is good for Europe as it is designed to work in the temp range -15 to +15 Celcius. Much of the Continental US is colder than that and real snow and ice tyres should be fitted by the hardy souls who live places like ND, MN and similar.

2. A Spring and Autumn tyre for the end of Autumn and beginning of Spring, when its not hot and you want some 'squidgy meat' on the tyre and good pattern for the wet. Examples are Michelin PilotSport 2, Pirelli PZero Nero, Yokohama AVS Sport, Continental Sport Contact 2. These are the tyres most people regard as summer tyres. They are high performance (expensive) and usually very satisfactory.

3. A Summer tyre. This is a street legal semi-race tyre, such as the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (the fastest), Pirelli PZero Corsa, Toyo RA-1. These tyres offer great performance but must be treated carefully and usually give poor economy and are frequently noisy.

People who are dedicated track day drivers would be well advised to buy a set of slicks which they take to the track each time. If you have never driven with slicks, its something to be experienced, nothing else is quite like it.

Finally, all tyres are not the same, even if all the labels say they are. Let me explain, Michelin, for example, will officially support a handful of race teams in each important race series. This means each team gets their own Michelin tyre engineer. It also means they get the latest highest performance tyre, which are significantly faster than the spec tyres which are supplied to all the other teams. SO talented drivers who want to win go to a team which has official factory support.

Finally, if I lived somewhere where it got very wet during the warm season I would not select one of the semi-race tyres, their wet performance is not good enough.

HTH
R+C

[Benman]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Guys
Some cautions about using the Toyo RA-1 as a regular street tyre - this information is from Toyo themselves:
HTH
R+C

What Nordschleife says is true. That is why i was responding to what tire is good for track use. The fact that they are street legal is so that i don't have to take them off on my way back to the hotel at night.

And as for slicks at an Audi event, I'd much rather be in the Toyos than slicks if the rain should fall (which is a good possibility at some of the Audi events!). Slicks have a lot less traction then the Toyos used in the World Speed Challenge!

Ben:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Weeks of researching choices for the RS6 with Tirerack (a major US tire distributor, selling to dealers & individuals nationwide) and two dealer motorsports divisions has revealed that there are only three tire options available in the US that a) come in 18" size, b) fit the RS6, and c) have the "heavy load" designation.

One is Dunlop, but I'm eliminating them based on a report here of chunks flying off during track use plus some other less than positive owner feedback.

The remaining two are the Pirelli P Zero Rossos, which came with my RS6 & seem to be fine for street use; and, Michelin Pilot Sports. But the Michelin PS2s meeting criteria a-b-c above won't be in the US for several months, according to a Champion Motorsports guy who said he talked to Michelin today (actually Tuesday).

Luke at Tirerack says the Pilot Sports are better than the Pirellis for track use, but are noticeably noisier than the Pirellis. The guy at Champion recommends the Michelins & claims there is not a big difference in noise. Neither is recommending Dunlop.

As much as I want a good track tire, I don't want to spend the rest of the 20,000 mile tread life listening to more loudness than my current Pirellis produce. They're not loud for performance tires, but they do get noisy on some pavement, and ... well, let me put it this way: I didn't order the sound enhancing exhaust because I don't want to live with that sound all the time, either. The standard exhaust is just right: Loud enough & sounding mean & wonderful when I put down the pedal, but relatively quiet at cruising speeds. Seems the older I get (59 now), the less intrusion my ears are willing to tolerate.

Not that I'm shutting out all loudness; I still enjoyed the Stones in Detroit year before last! But by and large, for everyday driving, quiet is good when I'm cruising.

I'm at 18,400 miles now & the inside groove of my Pirellis tread is down to 4/32nds of an inch. Not desperation time, but I think I'll need new rubber in the next month or so.

I'm about 80% certain now that I won't be tracking the RS6. Too many reports of brake issues; Audi refusing to honor warranty for brake damage if I use fluid with higher temperature tolerance (confirmed this week by my AOA owner advocate), not to mention more expensive upgrades & lack of warranty coverage for them too; and, I have a 2000 S4 up north that's probably a better track car. It also poses less risk if something drastic happens; i.e. it would happen to a car worth $20K rather than $65-70K. So, I may use it instead if I decide to do track events. I haven't been to a track with my RS6 & can't do it before buying new tires anyway because tread is too thin now. Sort of a Catch 22 of Tracks & Tiredom, if you know what I mean.

So I'm wondering ... has anyone out there -- especially in Europe, with its longer RS6 history -- experienced both the Pirelli Rossos and the Michelin Pilot Sports? How would you compare noise levels & other issues (especially traction & wear)? Owners who've had only the Pilot Sports also encouraged to reply. :rs6kiss::rs6kiss: :rs6kiss:

[sturs6]

Thnaks for this thread Jax I am in the same position so you are helping me out. On another note have you checked the Onstar thread lately. There is new news. :)

[Erik]

All we can say is that the Pirelli P Zero Corsa (R-tire) with a load index of 670 is not recommended. At least not with too high pressure or too much load...
N.B. The dirt is not from the explosion.

We exploded a tire on track on Nürburgring doing 150 km/h.
No problems holding the car on track due to quattro, but still
a bit too exiting for everyday experience.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=25231

[schackman]

I orderd Bridgstone Pole Position 3 Tires for my new FIKSE Profil 10's

Anyone have any input on the Pole Position 3 tire before I get it on the car????

:mech:

Thanks !

[JAXRS6]

Shackman, I presume you're not in the US -- correct? My sources tell me Bridgestone doesn't have an 18" tire with extra load rating that will fit in US.

Re TOYO -- Champion just advised me that the Toyo T1S, 255-45 size (18" of course), will fit here & has appropriate heavy load rating. Problem is, it's not sold by Tirerack, so the abundant information available from them for other brands is not available on the T1S, including user feedback. SO ... can anyone here comment on that tire?:confused:

Especially noise, traction, comfort & tread wear.

[schackman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JAXRS6
[B]Shackman, I presume you're not in the US -- correct? My sources tell me Bridgestone doesn't have an 18" tire with extra load rating that will fit in US.

I am in the USA.....NW Indiana to be exact.

I am told by FIKSE that they do have them for the car. They are shipping them Installed on the rims.

?????????????????????????????:vhmmm:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by schackman
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JAXRS6
[B]I am in the USA.....NW Indiana to be exact. I am told by FIKSE that they do have them for the car. They are shipping them Installed on the rims.

Shackman, I just want to be clear on this, since it contradicts what I'm being told by two other sources -- Tirerack and Champion Motorsports, the folks who race the RS6 at Sebring and other ALMS competition. Both have told me this week that Bridgestone does not offer a tire for the RS6 that meets criteria mentioned above & repeated below. If they did I would probably buy them because I have S03s on my S4 & like them a lot. Also, Pole Position doesn't necessarily mean S03s.

Has FIKSE assured you that 1) the Bridgestone you're getting are 18" tires; 2) that they will fit the RS6; and 3) that they have a Heavy Load rating, per numerous posts earlier in this thread; and 4) that they are Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position S03s (all of that description rather than just some of it) or, if not, what are they?

If the answer to all is yes, please tell me how I can get in touch with FIKSE! Also would appreciate more info on FIKSE -- from you or others -- because I don't know who they are.
:)
I guess that if they're already on the way to you, the bottom line is how they fit & perform. Hope you'll keep us posted on that, too...but other info sooner would help me because I need to order tires soon.

[schackman]

You can find out info on the company under a web search for
Fikse USA. There you will find their entire product line.

I had contacted Jim Fikse after reading your thread and he is looking into the info on:

Bridgestone Pole Position S03 255/40YR-18

For an 18''+8.5" Profil 5 wheel

With the "proper load rating"

.................But thats what I bought from them on a reccomendation for the new set..............I HOPE it works out.

I will keep you posted !:idea:

[DAB01]

Greetings everyone,

I have the Micelin PS 2 255/ 35 X 19 mounted on the factory 9X19 wheels and cannot say enough about them... what an amazing combination.

DAB.

[JAXRS6]

DAB, that's great info for 19" wheels, but mine are 18" and I don't want to spend for wheels right now, plus the ride already is plenty firm for me. How is your ride quality with 19"? Have you had a chance to compare it with an RS6 that has 18"?

[DAB01]

JAX,
The car feels a bit more "taught" than in standard trim but is by no means harsh or uncomfortable. The handling and braking, especially in the wet is incredible. The only negative I have to offer is that the Michelins are a bit noisy. One other thing, they are great looking!

Regards,

DAB.

[avdh]

According to Bridgestone Europen website, the S-03 PP is available in 255/40/18. It is a Y rated tyre, however I have no idea if it is 94Y or 96Y.

On the other hand, the only tyre which fits the RS6's 19" wheels, 255/35/19 is the RE050 RFD. This is a Run Flat Tyre, again Y rated, but no mention as to 94 or 96.

http://www.bridgestone-eu.com/articles.asp?ID=136

You can download a PDF file which gives all available sizes.

Well, I wanted S-03 PP's... :( but no 255/35/19 S-03's, so I think I'll have to settle for the Michelin PS2, which BTW cost US $ 538.- each in South Africa. The Pirelli P Zero Rosso is even more expensive....
Do I feel ripped off or what?

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Shackman, I just want to be clear on this, since it contradicts what I'm being told by two other sources -- Tirerack and Champion Motorsports, the folks who race the RS6 at Sebring and other ALMS competition. Both have told me this week that Bridgestone does not offer a tire for the RS6 that meets criteria mentioned above & repeated below. If they did I would probably buy them because I have S03s on my S4 & like them a lot. Also, Pole Position doesn't necessarily mean S03s.


Remember that Nordschleife brought up the Load rating in the first place due to the tight regulations in Germany. There you are regularly able to drive at speed in excess of 150mph at length. I'm not sure if the rating of 94 (vs. 96) is going to be relavent here in the U.S. where if you attempt 150 for even 10 or 15 SECONDS you will lose your license no questions asked.

I am not saying these tires are just as safe. But I think is IS safe to say that almost none of us here we be subjecting these tires to long periods of HIGH speed driving. :cheers:
Ben:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Nordschleife may have brought up load rating here, but he's not the only one concerned. So is Luke at the Tirerack, who said it's the reason that only the Pilot Sports, Michelin Rossos and Dunlops are suitable for the RS6.

I've eliminated the Dunlops as said before. Today I called a Toyo dealer, since Tirerack doesn't sell Toyo; he checked & called back to say they have nothing to fit (and the Toyo website said they rely on dealers for fitment questions from consumers). So, it's down to the Pilot Sports and Rossos in terms of what's available for the US in 18" with heavy load rating.

Luke recommends the Pilot Sports over the Rossos -- but the Rossos are a little quieter, he said. Then I re-checked the owner's survey from Tirerack that I linked to early in this thread: It rated the Pilot Sports higher, but said THEY were quieter! So I called Luke back; he said the Pilots are quiet at first but get noisier as they wear down.

Geez -- will this ever end?:vhmmm: Some times I feel like I'm spending more time on this tire issue than I did in research before buying the RS6!

Anyhow, based on what Luke said, I have a couple more questions. But I started this thread six weeks ago, am rapidly approaching 19K miles & gotta order tires soon or I'll be running on rims!:bigeyes:

For owners who have been through a set of Pilot Sports, or have lots of miles on them: Do they get noisier as they wear down?

And, for owners who have experienced both the Pilot Sports & Rossos: Which do you prefer, and why?

For the record my OEM Pirelli Rossos show the following on the sidewall: 255/40 ZR 18 99Y Another part says MAX LOAD 1709 lbs

[gjg]

out of the two my vote goes to OEM Pirelli Rossos.

My experience with Michelins on the roads here was not the best (wear and noise). Also - out of the 3 (Dunlop, Pirelli, Mich) they (mich) had the worse roadholding on wet roads and Dunlops are the noisiest (worse with wear) - we used all three in the past on S4/S6/A6q/A4q. This was before we stopped buying Michelins at all.

Road conditions/surface would be different in FL and MI.

my 0.02 $ :vhmmm:

[JAXRS6]

But just so I'm clear on this: You're rating the Pirellis over the Michelins in noise, wear, and wet traction?

Any noticeable difference in dry traction?

[gjg]

I could not tell difference in dry traction (no track on any of the cars) between M, D and P on same road. This is no track, just daily drive

Wear I do not remember on Mich, Dunlop seemed to do little better than others.

Dunlop was nosiest with lower tread.

I liked the SO3 the best but they will not work on rs6 unfortunately.

hope this help

gg

:rs6kiss:

[schackman]

Originally posted by gjg
I could not tell difference in dry traction (no track on any of the cars) between M, D and P on same road. This is no track, just daily drive

Wear I do not remember on Mich, Dunlop seemed to do little better than others.

Dunlop was nosiest with lower tread.

I liked the SO3 the best but they will not work on rs6 unfortunately.

hope this help

gg

:rs6kiss:


I am finding this to be not the case........On the Bridgestone Potenzza S03 pole positions.

The tire rack + my wheel manufacturer reccomended these tires specifically for my RS6.

The ammount each tire is rated to carry is sufficient to carry the weight of the RS6 in all 4 corners...........although is is not XL rated.

The size will fit the wheel 255/40YR-18

So what are you guys finding issue on.??

My wheels and tires should be here by the end of the month.

[gjg]

Problem with SO3 in Europe is that once you drive in Germany, with all regulations, the tire does not have the required loading - Nordeschliefe menitoned that one already.

It may work well in States and, as someone already pointed out, it is unlikely you'd drive at 150+ mph for too long in US (not sure about Montana) ..... :cry:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by schackman
The tire rack + my wheel manufacturer reccomended these tires specifically for my RS6.

That's very interesting because my guy at Tirerack is recommending against the S03s because they have no extra load designation. Too bad because I love the S03s on my 2000 S4.

Maybe your Tirerack guy and my Tirerack guy should have a talk. If you want to propose that, mine can be reached two ways:

luke@tirerack.com (tho I've had some trouble getting email through to him lately); or

phone 877.522.8473, ext 362 -- no problem reaching Luke this way

I don't plan to pursue this communication myself because I am satisfied to limit my selection to only those tires that have the extra load rating, as reportedly specified by the mfr. I may or may not track the car or reach 150 mph anytime soon, but load is not wear and I can envision an emergency avoidance maneuver which would put extra load on the tires. Car already weighs 4250 lbs, has 58% of weight on front tires, and it seems to me a quick turn or turns at high speed certainly could make extra load capacity useful. :incar:

[avdh]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Car already weighs 4250 lbs, has 58% of weight on front tires,

Not to mention that when you brake and corner hard, a greater proportion of the car's weight is on the outer front tyre.

BTW, the Toyo T1S is available for 19" wheels, 255/35/19 96Y.

I am seriously considering that one as it is 23% cheaper (in SA) than the equivalent Pilot Sport II.

However I understand that within the next six months Toyo will have a new replacement tyre, which suits me fine as I have about six or eight month to go with my SP9000RS.

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
That's very interesting because my guy at Tirerack is recommending against the S03s because they have no extra load designation. Too bad because I love the S03s on my 2000 S4.


Well it would seem that the S-03 will not be recommended by the Tirerack any longer. Due to the Load Rating being below the standards set by Audi they will not be listing them as replacement tires in the future.

A shame as they are great and more than likely none of us in the States would have any issues (different story in Germany) but if the tire were to blow then Audi would have nothing to do with it as the tire does not meet the manufactures requirements.

Makes you wonder about all those big SUVs rolling around on "Dubs".:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
My sources tell me Bridgestone doesn't have an 18" tire with extra load rating that will fit in US.

Re TOYO -- Champion just advised me that the Toyo T1S, 255-45 size (18" of course), will fit here & has appropriate heavy load rating.
Sorry to beat a dead horse but I was just wondering if you're willing to go a different size then factory (255/40/18) then why not try out the Potenza S-03? If you go 255/45/18 (the size that Champion is telling you will fit) you have the proper load (1709lbs) and rating (99). And you can get them from the tirerack.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by Benman
Sorry to beat a dead horse but I was just wondering if you're willing to go a different size then factory (255/40/18) then why not try out the Potenza S-03? If you go 255/45/18 (the size that Champion is telling you will fit) you have the proper load (1709lbs) and rating (99). And you can get them from the tirerack.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

Thanks -- I'll call Champion on Monday & maybe ask Suncoast (Gulf Coast dealer) too, since I'll be there anyway to meet a factory rep re repeated instances (4 now) of Onstar red light coming on.

One concern I have is that while Champion said the 255/45 Toyos would fit, Toyo itself -- and my local Toyo dealer -- said they don't have a tire to fit the RS6. The 45 number refers to sidewall height, right? Meaning a 45 is taller than the 40 Pirellis that came with my car? Which might increase ride comfort? Not a bad thing, but it's still puzzling that for the Toyos, Champion says they'll work but Toyo says otherwise.:argue:

Sometimes the RS6 being so "rare" is a pain in the arse, if you know what I mean. But I do appreciate your bringing this to my attention because if the SO3s will work, that's great -- and on Monday I'll have a chance to not only call Champion but ask a factory rep, too!:thumb:

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Thanks -- I'll call Champion on Monday & maybe ask Suncoast (Gulf Coast dealer) too, since I'll be there anyway to meet a factory rep re repeated instances (4 now) of Onstar red light coming on.
Please keep me posted of what you find out as I'm interested in the results and think the S-03s are fantastic (not to take anything away from Toyo, just haven't tried them).

And in theory 45s should give a spec more comfort vs. the stock 40s although the rotations per mile will be less and tire will be slightly heavier: slight dip in mpg.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by Benman
the rotations per mile will be less

Hmmm...does that mean the tread may last longer? Also, would it have an effect on calculations/readings of speedometer & odometer?:confused:

I will of course keep you posted. Already have emailed Luke@tirerack.com & hope to hear from him before I leave for dealer appt with AOA tech around noon.:thumb:

[avdh]

By going from a 40 profile to a 45 profile, you'll get the following changes.

Tire height: +1.01"
Tire rollout: + 3.17"
Wheels RPM @ 75mph: -36
Actual speed at 75 mph: 78 mph
Speedo error: +4%
Engine RPM (around 2500 rpm): -92
Effective gear ratio with new tire/wheel combination: - 0.117

Do you really want longer gears with your RS6? Specially 4th which is already a bit too long..... ?

[JAXRS6]

Luke at the Tirerack looked up sizes; the 40 is listed as 26.1 inches tall, the 45 at 27.0. Fitment would be a serious problem; in addition to throwing off calculations of the speedo, odo and tach, I would risk damaging upper wheel well portion of the fenders when turning. So, as much as I love the S03s, I'm not going run these risks to get the 45 size.

Will there ever be a heavy load S03 that properly fits the RS6? Luke didn't know but said Bridgestone generally announces such things in advance. He added, however, that even if they made such an announcement today, count on 5-6 weeks before such tires would be available at Tirerack.

There is a bit of good news. While at my Gulf Coast dealer today, I asked the asst service mgr to measure the remaining tread on my Pirellis. He came up with 5/32nds & said I might get another 5K miles out of them. Earlier I may have reported 4/32nds, but that was on the far inside groove -- more critical for track than road use, and I have no track plans now.

5K miles seems a bit optimistic, but even if I can get 4K that should be enough to get me back to Michigan. And if I get lucky, maybe Bridgestone will announce something good before my need for new rubber becomes critical.

In view of what Luke said, and what advh just posted, I saw no need to contact Champion about this.

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Fitment would be a serious problem; in addition to throwing off calculations of the speedo, odo and tach, I would risk damaging upper wheel well portion of the fenders when turning.
5K miles seems a bit optimistic, but even if I can get 4K that should be enough to get me back to Michigan. And if I get lucky, maybe Bridgestone will announce something good before my need for new rubber becomes critical.


Thanks for the update. I would think that as long as you're just cruising you should have enough to get back to Michigan. I may end up going with the same Pirellis as I've been happy with them. I have noticed that they do get a bit louder as the miles pile on but overall a good tire. An S-03 though they are not.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[sturs6]

Has anyone looked at the new Goodyear? The Eagle F1 GS-D3...
Luke at Tire Rack Thread (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62470) Its the second one.

[Benman]

Originally posted by sturs6
Has anyone looked at the new Goodyear? The Eagle F1 GS-D3...
Luke at Tire Rack Thread (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62470) Its the second one.
Because of the same problem with the Bridgestones. You have to go 255/45/18 to get the approved load rating.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[sturs6]

I justed ordered a set of 19 inch BBS CH and they will have PS2's on them. Should have them mounted on Tuesday.
-Stuart

[Bauer]

Dont forget the Pics:D

[sturs6]

Oh do not worry I well take plenty. If I could just find the Canon I am looking for but I guess I will have to put that off since buying new wheels and tires.

[avdh]

Originally posted by sturs6
I justed ordered a set of 19 inch BBS CH and they will have PS2's on them. Should have them mounted on Tuesday.
-Stuart

Once you have done a few miles, please let us know what you think of them.

[griff]

I am interested in runflats, Dunlop and Bridgestone are available in 245/40/18,275/40/18 and 274/35/18

Does anyone have any experienece?

[Nordschleife]

I've driven with runflats on a couple of cars. On one they were fine on the other they were not as good as the normal street performance tyre.
They are a pain in the neck as very few stockists carry them. You generally need special rims for run-flats.
Finally, run flats like slicks come in metric sizes, so they don't exist in sizes anybody recognises. So on the A8 the 8.5 J x 19 rims become 235 x 500 and the tyres are 245/690 R 500 rather than 255/40 R 19.
Can you trust your local garage to fit run flats onto these special sims without damaging them? Americans with experience frequently don't think so, so Bruce Canepa, for example, changes the US legal 959s to normal tims and tyres.
Make sure the US is ready for this technology.

R+C

[noushy]

Jax,
I am about to purchase a set of tires for new wheels, sized 19x9 HRE 547 wheels. I had to go witht he larger size to clear the brakes. I am now looking at tires, and the bridgestone, michelin ps2, continentals, and gy f1 in 19 inch is a load rating 96. In the stock size it is a lr of 95, but that is a very small difference. Check the tirerack web site, and under tire specs, it will give you all of the load ratings for a particular tire. Easy to find what works. They will also spec the correct tire for you.

Noushy

[sturs6]

noushy
I would recommend the PS2's!

[noushy]

Hi all,
I happen to be a huge michelin fan, purely for the quality of the tire. I had settled for pilot xgtz4 tires before and they rode and wore excellent on my tuned gs400. I like the dunlops but they seem to wear poorly, particularly on the edges. This seems to be a fault of the tire, not of use. I had only 5k on the car, mostly highway, gentle driving and chunks of the edges were coming off. I hear that the ps2 tires are noisy and harsh, so I am a little reserved about that tire. The bridgestones and the goodyear tires seem to be quiet and easy riding, yet still decent performance. I cannot imagine that any performance tire, sized 255-35-19 cannot give good grip for a 4000lb car. Anyways keep the feedback and input coming since I have to order the tires in the next few days to get them with the wheels.

Noushy

[JAXRS6]

Thanks for suggestions, but for 18" in the US, which is what I need, the only tires that meet the heavy load designation required by Audi AND won't cause fitment problems (due to height or width) are the Pirellis, Dunlops, and Michelin Pilot Sports. Nothing else, including PS2, meets those criteria in 18".

I've been checking in on Tirerack since the early days of this thread, talking with & emailing Luke there, and as of a couple of weeks ago nothing had changed. Last time we talked I asked about Bridgestone Potenza S03 since I like them so much on my 2000 S4; he said even if Bridgestone announced an 18" S03 that will work on the RS6, several weeks would pass between the announcement and availability -- and there has been no announcement.

If anyone has heard something new or different for 18", please post!:D

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6

If anyone has heard something new or different for 18", please post!:D
Not exactly ground breaking news but I got a set of the Pilot Sports for a replacement on my P Zeros. They were only $20.00 a tire more so I decided to give them a shot. After a few thousand miles I can honestly say that I don't like them any better than the Rossos. They're great tires, just not better than the Pirellis. Handling in wet and dry is on par. Ride comfort and noise might be a tiny smiget better but the P Zeros are hard to beat after these wear down I'll be going back to them. And they're the OEM tire of choice for the RS 6+! Hard to beat that.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[nyrs6]

Anybody know if the Goodyear GS-D3 its a new tire? Is it good? :rolleyes:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by Benman
Not exactly ground breaking news but I got a set of the Pilot Sports for a replacement on my P Zeros. They were only $20.00 a tire more so I decided to give them a shot. After a few thousand miles I can honestly say that I don't like them any better than the Rossos. They're great tires, just not better than the Pirellis. Handling in wet and dry is on par. Ride comfort and noise might be a tiny smiget better but the P Zeros are hard to beat after these wear down I'll be going back to them. And they're the OEM tire of choice for the RS 6+! Hard to beat that.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

Great info -- thanks!:applause:

One question: If the ride comfort & noise are better with the Michelins (tho only slightly), why would you return to the Pirellis? How are they better?

I leave today for a 1500 mi trip that will pretty much toast my OEM Pirellis. I agree they've been good tires, but until you wrote I had only the Tirerack owner survey results for direct comparison. I may order tires Monday & your input is most useful; thanks again!

For me, ride quality is more important once I return to Michigan. Roads there suck compared to California or Florida.:incar:

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Great info -- thanks!:applause:

One question: If the ride comfort & noise are better with the Michelins (tho only slightly), why would you return to the Pirellis? How are they better?

For me, ride quality is more important once I return to Michigan. Roads there suck compared to California or Florida.:incar: JAX:cheers:
I wrote that (maybe a tiny smiget) because it is just that, maybe. It is hard to tell since when I first took delivery almost a year ago I was too busy smiling from EAR TO EAR to pay attention to the ride quality. Once the Pirrelis wore down compared to the BRAND NEW PSs of course I can tell there's a difference in ride comfort, but again is this because they are any better or just new (cause feet always feel better with a brand new set of sneakers:D ). And as for the handling even the wore down Rossos handled the same as the new PSs. Impressive. That is why I'll be going back to the Rossos. Besides they have that cool red logo on the sidewall:D . Hope my rambling helps

Ben:addict:

[avdh]

are you tlaking about the original Pilot Sport or the Pilot Sport II?

As for the original Pilot Sport, one of my friends had the original PS on his RS6 (19") and fitted recently the PZero Rosso and, to my surprise, much prefers the Pirellis.

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by avdh
As for the original Pilot Sport, one of my friends had the original PS on his RS6 (19") and fitted recently the PZero Rosso and, to my surprise, much prefers the Pirellis.

Wow -- that is surprising, and pretty convincing when added to Benman's comments.

So now we have two RS6ers with direct experience comparing the Michelin Pilot Sports & Pirelli Rossos, and both prefer the Pirellis. That "score" of Pirelli 2, Michelin 0 is surprising because it contradicts the owner feedback survey published by Tirerack, the link for which I'll repeat here for convenience:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/max.jsp

As the link shows, owners ranked the Pilot Sports well above the Pirelli Rossos (tho not all Pirellis). Now I'm really confused!

Still, based on what you guys are reporting as well as my own experience, it would seem foolish to switch away from something I like (i.e. the Pirellis).

I've completed my 1500 trek northward & now show 23,178 on the odo. Just checked the tires and they are close to the wear marks, so I'll need to order something soon. Can anyone else compare personal experience with these Pirellis & Michelins? :confused:

PS -- I'm talking Pilot Sports here, not PS2s, since PS2s are not available in the US in 18" that will properly fit an RS6.

[iconcls]

I just replaced the stock Pirelli PZeros with Pilot Sports and I prefer the handling of the Michelins thus far with street driving; however, the definitive comparison will be done next month at the track.

[Benman]

avdh,
yep. Talking @ the PS 1s.

JAXRS6,

I also went with what was posted at the tirerack survey (should have listened to Bauer). I have yet to feel any gain with the PSs. I think the rating for the Rossos posted in their website is totally not accurate. Not sure if the high load rating can somehow affect the handling for the good but in my experience with the P Zeros they've been nothing but good.

Unfortunately due to what I read on the reader's survey I thought that the PSs would be even better. Again the PSs are good, very good, just not better IMO than the Rossos.

iconcls,
You now make it Michelin:1, Pirelli:2:D :cheers:
Ben:addict:

[noushy]

Hello All,
I decided on the ps2 just because of the quality of michelin tires. I had a set of pirelli p-zero tires, asymmetricos I think, on my gs430 and was not pleased with the wear. They do not wear even and then they begin to shake the car. No matter how much you try to balance them on a force balancer, it does not make a difference. My opinion is on a heavy car that burns up tires, stick with the michelins for durability and quality. I have not tried the pirellis on my rs6, but the dunlops are burning up in chunks. And I tend to be a gentle driver, mostly highway at 75-80mph, without much stop and go.

Let me know what the rest of you think.

Noushy

[JAXRS6]

Pirelli Rossos or Michelin Pilot Sport -- those were my final choices, per prior posts.

After months of researching, these factors led me to the decision:

1. Tirerack test results. When selecting the test icon for the Pirellis at tirerack.com they were shown to be superior to the PS in Ride Comfort and Noise Comfort as well as Wet Traction. The Owner Survey elsewhere on the Tirerack site showed otherwise, but, hey, I had to make a choice, and...

2. My salesman at Tirerack, luke@tirerack.com, said that if ride comfort was a key priority, "definitely go with the Pirellis."

3. Benman, per post above & on other sites I found, expected to find the PS to be superior but found otherwise.

4. I've been satisfied with my OEM Pirellis & don't want anything that would ride rougher or be noisier. There's still some tread left above the wear marks. Not much, but in my opinion that's pretty good for 23,500 miles considering they're high performance tires (up to 186 mph) on such a heavy car, with extra pressure on front tires due to weight bias.

5. I'm saving $104 compared to the price of the Michelins.

But there are definitely some if's that might have made me go for the Michelins: If I was younger and less sensitive to rough roads ... If I didn't spend half my life in Michigan, where roads ARE rough ... If I planned to track the car a lot -- all those might have caused me to pick the Michelins. The Tirerack tests showed them to be superior for Handling in the "real world" ratings, and most of the Dry categories under the "performance test track" ratings. Plus, the Owners Survey favored them in every category.

So that's my story nearly five months after starting this thread. Have appointment next Wednesday for installation at the dealer.

Here's a link to the above-mentioned Tirerack test results:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/pzero_rosso.jsp

And here, once again for convenience, is the link to Tirerack's owner survey:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/max.jsp

[noushy]

Jax,
I wanted to post earlier but have been very busy with work. I finally got my wheels from HRE (after almost 3 months) and they are mounted on the car. I went with the pirelli p-zero rosso tires because they were more easily available, oem on the factory 19 inch wheels, and all around seemed to be what the people on the net liked. I have only put about 200 miles on them so I am not really sure about the plus and minuses of the tires. They seem to be more sensistive to expansion joints, but that may also be because they are 19 inch sized 255/35/19 tires instead of the 40 series 18 inch stock size. I will post pictures and more details a little later today, but I wanted to tell you that I was overall pleased with the tires. They seem high quality, corner very well, and without much fuss. The dunlops seemed quieter, a little softer and more forgiving, but not as edgy or sharp around turns. Sometimes they seemed to float in the rain (not very reassuring in a 90k car). Email me at noushyk@hotmail.com if you want more specifics or questions. The wheels they are mounted to are HRE 547 sized 19x9.5, with supposedly a stock offset. However when compared to the 18 inch wheels they stick out almost an inch more. There seems to be an issue with the front brakes, necessitating the change in offet. I do not know anyone with the factory or replica 19 inch wheels to compare to.

[JAXRS6]

Noushy,

Thanks for your info -- I look forward to the pix!

The "more comfy" ride you describe for the Dunlops sounds nice, but I am still bothered by a long-ago post saying chunks flew off during track use. Also, my Pirellis have been very good in the wet; no hydroplaning in rain per se but sometimes a little if I hit a big puddle at speed. I'm not sure that's avoidable in any tire, tho.

I look foward to the pix & more comments on ride quality of 19" vs 18" as time goes by, since I may pop for bigger wheels next time if the penalty isn't too high.

[Benman]

JAX:cheers:
Glad to hear you were able to decide. As mentioned earlier I think the P Zeros get a bum rap on Tirerack. All the feedback suggests them to be inferior to the Pilot Sports but we both know that not to be the case;) . Hope you get another 20K+ out of your next set.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by Benman
All the feedback suggests them to be inferior to the Pilot Sports but we both know that not to be the case

Feedback from customers says the Pirellis are inferior, yes, but not test results. Check the first link I gave above.

Why the conflict between test results and owner feedback? Here's a theory: Michelin has done such a great marketing job over the years, and has built such an outstanding reputation, that some owners may tend to rank them higher than they sometimes deserve.

Whaddya think?

[noushy]

Jax,
I now have spent a few days with the tires and wheels. First off, HRE has set the offset a little different to clear the brakes. As I mentioned, the wheels stick out about an inch which gives the car a wider stance. The good news is it does not rub because the suspension is so stiff. The ride quality is a little more taut, mainly because of the stiffness of the sidewalls. Now that I have put some miles on it, the pirellis seem much sharper and they run out perfectly. I drove from 70 to 120mph today down 275 to work and it was beautiful. Crisp, sharp turn ins, smooth ride, and really no harsher than the dunlops. The dunlop tread compound is just too soft. The dunlops may work well in cooler climates, and smooth roads, but in michigan it breaks down. I had little chunks coming off and I do not even drive hard or race it. My RS6 is my 1-2day per week driver to work and back. I take my wife in it when we go out together to dinner or a show. I think you will be very pleased with the pirellis, as they are really warming up to me. I have to get my digital camera out to take some pixs, maybe tonight. Overall I am starting to get used to the 19 inch wheels and I think the penalty is not that much. I also went with a lighter wheel than stock, it is about 5lbs lighter per wheel/tire setup and that plays a huge factor in ride quality. The drop in unsprung weight is noticeable. If you are in the neighborhood and want to take it out for a drive let me know. Since you have the same tires you should be able to assess the difference in size well. I also have the stock wheels/tires around if you are curious to try a swap.

Noushy

[JAXRS6]

Noushy, I just sent you a PM. Hope to hear from you soon.

[gjg]

Why the conflict between test results and owner feedback? Here's a theory: Michelin has done such a great marketing job over the years, and has built such an outstanding reputation, that some owners may tend to rank them higher than they sometimes deserve.

this is a good point - based on user rating I purchased winter Michelins on my old S4 few years back and they just sucked, specially on wet road - snow performance was nothing to write home about either. Replaced with Dunlop Winter M2 and the difference in handling (wet and snow) on heavy car was significant.

One of my kids used Mich Alpin on Subaru and it was ok, replaced with Blizzaks last year and the difference, once again, was noticeable .....

At the moment I have a loaner from dealer with Pilot Sports and on wet road they have long way to go to match Pirellis - and this car is about 400 kg lighter than RS6.

Live and learn .......

:cheers:

[Benman]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Here's a theory: Michelin has done such a great marketing job over the years, and has built such an outstanding reputation, that some owners may tend to rank them higher than they sometimes deserve.

Whaddya think?
Agreed. "Because so much is riding on your tires":D
Make mine P Zeros:cheers:
Ben:addict:

[JAXRS6]

Got my new Pirelli Rossos put on Thursday -- they feel really good! But in looking at the old tires, one in particular was bothersome due to extreme wear on the inboard shoulder.

I tried to post the picture here but got a message saying it was too large. I don't know how to re-size, could find no instructions on my computer re re-sizing, so posted it here instead (with no problems -- rare!):

http://forums.audiworld.com/rs6/msgs/7286.phtml

[gjg]

this looks like alignment problem more than on-ramp driving. Did the dealer check that?

:mech:

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by gjg
this looks like alignment problem more than on-ramp driving. Did the dealer check that?

I don't think so; nothing about it on my receipt, and I don't think the issue was even discovered until I took the old tires out of their bags. Someone at the other forum suggested same re alignment, so I will call dealer about it Monday.

[gjg]

I had similar wear of inboard shoulder wear like this on S before, always caused by bad alignment - one time they had to replace ball joints ..... imho the dealer must tell you about this problem the moment they see it. They unfortunately not always do :mech:

[Benman]

Originally posted by gjg
this looks like alignment problem more than on-ramp driving. Did the dealer check that?

:mech:
You will usually mot have the Audi dealers perform this service. They don't even rotate tires (not part of the free maintenance). It does look like an alignment isssue more than anything else. An 24K is great mileage out of a set of high performance summer tires. Nothing to indicate being inferior!
Ben:addict:

[gjg]

You will usually mot have the Audi dealers perform this service.

well, good mechanic should let you know that you do have uneven wear on your tires because that would indicate a problem somewhere in the driveline.

Fact is that some of the stealer services sucks and they would not even take a second look at the tires. It gets so bad that I had alignment done ona car which had joint boot ruptured and grease all over and the certified mechanic did not even notice although he worked 4 inches away from it .....

I absolutely agree 24k miles is not bad mileage but the wear is bad and should be addressed asap specially with new rubber already on.

BTW on S6 alignment was part of the maintenance package - for that matter I would take the tire back with me and ask them to check it because of this problem - it maybe be part of the service agreement.

gg

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by gjg
I absolutely agree 24k miles is not bad mileage but the wear is bad and should be addressed asap specially with new rubber already on.

That is an excellent point, and so far dealer response has not been encouraging. I'm now waiting to hear back from Tirerack re pix I have emailed to them, to get their opinion re the cause of the uneven wear. More later.

[JAXRS6]

The uneven wear on my one Pirelli is due to "too much negative camber," according to luke@tirerack.com This is alignment-related, so I called my dealer. Service writer there remained skeptical, tho I don't think he's a wheel/tire expert. "Your car has been tracked, right?" he asked -- to which I answered emphatically, "No! I've had it up to speed, but never tracked it."
He seemed to ease up a bit after that & did give me a break on alignment price ($99 sted of $199). Alignment is not covered under warranty, of course.

Bottom line: I take my car to dealer on Wednesday.:mech:

Dealer guy said there was no vibration when he test drove the car, and I agree, but Tirerack says misalignment doesn't cause vibration -- at least not always. Is Tirerack right?:vhmmm:

[nene]

That is interesing, the part on the alignment that is. My dealer gives me at least 1 free alignment per year while car is under warranty. They even did it when my car had aftmkt wheels!
I guess dealership service does differ from one place to another. What a shame.

Good luck, at least $99 does not sound too bad, but still money you could spend on taking the chika out!!!

[iconcls]

Originally posted by nene
I guess dealership service does differ from one place to another.

I nominate this for rs6.com understatement of the year. ;)

[Benman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nene
[B]
I guess dealership service does differ from one place to another. What a shame.

Yes, this is the MAIN point. One dealer does things great another blows chunks. Most are somewhere in between.

gjg,

you are absolutely correct but unfortunately most view it as not their job as long as it's not written down as part of their "job description" i.e. under warranty.
:(

[rs6_newyork]

I'm riding around on new rims and tires! BBS 19" and PS2s ...

they feel better. vs dunlop. For a start they definitely felt more nimble from the first mile, but when pushing a bit, they don't sing and scrub like the dunlops did.

only issue is there is now a definite vibration zone from 80 to 90mph now. It runs through the chassis of the car i can feel it vibro-massaging my foot thru the dead pedal.

they came from tirerack. Sould I take them somewhere for balancing on the car? Is tirerack.com responsible for delivering perfectly balanced wheels?

[gjg]

Originally posted by JAX

Dealer guy said there was no vibration when he test drove the car, and I agree, but Tirerack says misalignment doesn't cause vibration -- at least not always. Is Tirerack right?

I have yet to see misaligned car to vibrate ..... perhaps the stealer should hire more competent people - do they realy believe their customers are so stupid? :doh:

[noushy]

Hello guys,
First of all, alignment issues do not cause vibration. They will cause the car to pull to one side, and/or uneven tire wear. There are multiple settings on most cars, and this determines the camber/pitch (I think it is called the caster), etc. I used to know these terms, but my brain is now stuck dealing with medical info. Anyways, the vibration is caused by only one thing. Something is out of balance with the wheel/tire/hub of the car. I doubt the hub very much, since it is an rs6 and relatively new. My experience with a vibration at certain speeds is usually a tire balance issue. However, most aftermarket wheels (including bbs) are not hubcentric, and if so, you will always have problems. This is because the car was designed to take a hub-centric wheel, that is, a wheel that aligns with the wheel hub, not the bolts. This is how almost every german and japanese car is designed. Most aftermarket wheel manufacturers do not build hub-centric wheels because of cost. They make a standard wheel center/bolt pattern, and then fit adapters for various cars. This never works well. Trust me, I have spent thousands on high end wheels, only to find I will have vibrations at certain speeds. Even the most high end force balancers cannot fix it. Let me know how your wheels mount onto the car. Do they use hub-centric rings, or do they fit perfectly on the hub?

Noushy

[gjg]

I've used BBS RK II with the center ring on S6 Avant for approx. 160k miles and had absolutely no problem with any vibrations (outside of normal wear and tear out of balance tire) in any speed up to 170 mph :thumb:

Ring was actually about 3 mm wide 5 mm high on the outer side of the rim only - I will check that when I see the car again next month - I think the ring's function was to hold in bbs center cap ... not sure though

George

[rs6_newyork]

Originally posted by noushy
Even the most high end force balancers cannot fix it. Let me know how your wheels mount onto the car. Do they use hub-centric rings, or do they fit perfectly on the hub?

Noushy
In the case of my vibration, which is fairly subtle really, and seems to be around 75mph, the BBS R-GRs came from tirerack with some kind of adaptor ring pre-pressed into the wheel. So strictly speaking they are not hub-centric, no.

but I found this advice on another forum:


Do you realize that many many rims are not hubcentric for other cars and work just fine? It's all about the proper torque sequence.

Hand tighten it off the gournd, then torque down while on the ground in a star pattern.

what do you think?

[gjg]

yep, proper procedure saves a lot of headaches .... star pattern that is. But I would start with wheel balance anyway..:mech:

[Luke@tirerack]

Originally posted by JAXRS6
Is Tirerack right?:vhmmm:


of course I am right !!!

:D


Howdy Jack

[Bauer]

of course I am right !!!


ok, here is one for you, which tires can I use on the stock rims that have the proper sidewall strenght rating?


:vhmmm:

Cheers,

[Luke@tirerack]

18's
SPORT 9000 XL
PILOT SPORT XL
P-ZERO ROSSO ASY

19's
POTENZA RE050 A
SPORT CONTACT 2
SPORT 9000
EAGLE F1 GS-D3
PILOT SPORT PS2
P-ZERO ROSSO ASYMETRICO
P-ZERO ASYMETRICO

[Bauer]

thanks

[noushy]

Hello again,
I realize that proper wheel torque on the bolts also makes a difference. However again, the whole idea of centering the wheel on the hub is what matters. Aligning the wheels perfectly on the spindle by the bolts does not mean that the wheel is centered perfectly. If the spec is for hubcentric, it means that the wheel hub is perfectly centered on the drive axis. If it is bolt centric, then the bolts will align the wheel on the drive axis. Even a few millimeters off will have a huge effect on the way the car drives (ie. vibrations). If your wheels have pressed in hubcentric rings, it is not the same as the wheel being machined perfectly through the hub for the car. This is because you have added another source of error. Trust me on this. One caveat is that most german cars (ie mercedes, bmw) do not seem to mind using hubcentric rings as much as japanese cars. This may have to do with a certain tolerance built into their drivelines. I had a heavily modified gs430 and I went through 12k in wheels. I finally settled on HRE and, to no surprise, perfect the first mount.

Noushy

[Luke@tirerack]

many lower quality wheels (which we find in the Japanese car market more often) use plastic centering rings not metal versions. Use of a properly sized centering and proper material of the ring does provide a good hubcentric fitment and does not cause vibrations

[noushy]

Here is a pix of the pirelli tire on my HRE wheel. This is the exact OEM tire that comes from the factory with the 19 inch wheel setup. It is the proper load rating (states extra load on sidewall). I thought you guys would enjoy.

Noushy

[nyrs6]

Anybody tracked the RS6 with the pilot sport yet?

[alexo]

Hi guys whats the verdict? Is the PS2 better than the Pirelli?

Just received my rs6avant this november & noticed that the back tires are from way back 2003, when the car was produced. Have to replace them. Currently have contis on them 19".

[DuckWingDuck]

I think there are no doubts that PS2s are better than Pirelli. I've run Conti, Toyo, and Bridgestone, going to try PS2 next.

[Copper]

I tracked my other RS6 with 18" stock wheels and PS2s. Great! Really the weak link tracking these cars are the brakes due to the weight of the car. Thus, the reason for the Extra Load (XL) rating required for the tires on the RS6.

You will burn through a set of front brake pads and greatly reduce the life of the rear brake pads. I think this is one of the reasons the B6 RS6 has the ceramic big brake option. Use your manual shift to provide engine braking as much as possible and don't stay on it 100% for more than 4 laps. Come in or take it easy for 2-3 laps before getting back to 80-100% of the car's capabilities. If you are on a track with lots of long, open sweepers than your results may vary. No tires issues with PS2s and 18" wheels at all. Very grippy and stable at high speeds. Check your tire pressure (of course) before and after every run. I ran mine at Road Atlanta just FYI.

[hahnmgh63]

I have found that I like the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 as good as the Michelin in the dry and much better in the wet since you live in Michelin, take a look at the tire tests. They do have the XL load rating that our car requires.

[DuckWingDuck]

Goodyear Eagle F1 is the #1 rated tyre on tirerack, so, ya, take a look at that shit.

[hahnmgh63]

So much for my spelling two post up, that is Michigan and not Michelin.

[Copper]

Goodyear? Hahahahaha. More like Goodluck. Enjoy replacing those F1s at 10K miles.

[Spidercat]

I have found that I like the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 as good as the Michelin in the dry and much better in the wet since you live in Michelin, take a look at the tire tests. They do have the XL load rating that our car requires.

+1

FWIW, I've put around 13K mi on the F1s, and will likely need to replace them soon (From reviews that I had read, I was only expecting around 15K mi from them, given the compound and the car's weight, so I'm happy). They are great in the dry (quiet and tons of grip) and in the wet, there's no equal. It rains frequently here, and I demand the all-weather interceptor capability. :thumb: