On-Star Tracks your speed

[Aronis]

I have heard radio ads for new GM/AC sponsered auto insurance where they use the ON-STAR system to track your milage and max speeds, etc. With this data they offer lower premiums if you don't drive that often and don't speed, but increase your premiums if you speed.

This is interesting, but it does tell us that On-Star has the ability via it's GPS module to create such data and share it with On-Star.

Perhaps this could also alert the cop sleeping under the bridge 10 miles ahead of you that you are speeding. This is too much BIG BROTHER WATCHING YOU For me.

Any opinions?

Mike

[Aronis]

oh, don't forget, On-Star knows you model, make, color and license number.

Mike

[GoFastKindaGuy]

WE are their customers. If they used it in that way, OnStar would lose 99.9% of its customers:vgrumpy:

[Aronis]

I disagree with that.

Remember those with upscale cars and upscale fast cars are in the minority.

Most people who have on-star actually wish you do DIE simply because you passed them.

Most will welcome an automatic ticket based on your evil speeding. Of course speeding is a relative thing, and some ass going 55 pulling a boat trailor is far more dangerous to others than someone going 85 in a properly equiped car.

I think many who use ON-Star and actually ask for it as an option (mine was there, so I use the cell phone function only) are looking for the ultimate in SAFETY. They actually think they are safer at 55 (panicing of course).

So, I doubt On-Star would loose many customers over such a automatic ticketing system.

We have accepted traffic radar and traffic cameras, we have accepted NOT facing our accuser when a cop gives you a ticket and you go to fight it (the issuing police officer does not have to be there in court - not been there as a defendant, but know others who have).

We accept the assertion that Males should have to pay higher insurance rates based on BS statistics about drying safely, while your own safe driving record gets you no cuts in insurance...etc...

Mike

[Bauer]

If that is the case, that GM is tracking my speed...then yes it is WAY too much big brother in my mind. I also agree that if people found out they are being watched regardless of the price or speed capabilities of their car that they would be very up set. People in general want to protect their privicy....I don't personally know anyone who would be fine with the fact that someone was watching them ALL the time. It kind of makes me want to rip the NAV and the On Spy out of my car.:w:

[UrQ]

Have you read the privacy policy on On Star, you give them the right to do anything, its a nasty policy if you care about the data they can collect about you.

[gjg]

There is detailed information available about any trip (time, distance, place, speeds, etc.) - thanks to GPS.

System like that is fully capable to provide this information without
driver's input (providing NAV info is passed to the service provider) .... you have no control of what is being transmitted from a car and how is this information being used (as per your service agreement).

At the end of the day it is:

1. your money - either in form of speeding fines and/or significantly increased insurance premiums.

We can argue how the spedding ticket would be collected without any driver info (outside of ticketing the vehicle owner). Fortunately in US the speed enforcement did not (yet) reach the communist approach of many European countries, at least in some states.

2. your privacy - this is more important to me than any potential service I can EVER receive.

One solution could be to switch this equipment completely off - no
power..... and turn it on when needed.

gg

[Aronis]

It is definitely an eye opener.

You do know of the 'black box' in GM cars that will be used in most soon, in many now.

The last few monements of driving speed, angle, turning input from steering angle, etc, are saved and can be found from the car's computer.

They are using this to study accidents, but you know it will be used for more.

In my business most physicians thought it was ok to 'collect outcome data' on physicians with the naive belief that information would be kept confidential. NOT, it gets to the public sector and has been used to exclude physicians from insurance programs. Such data included the length of stay of a patient, total care cost for a patient's hospitalization, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PATIENTS SAFE SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME, but the cost! The problem is that each individual physician cares for two few patients in a given time with similar medical problems to use any proper STATISTICAL analysis to arrive at any fair conclusions.

The same can be true for drivers.

Let say for example you live 1.2 hours from Boston where you work. Thus you drive down 93 south every day and back up north every afternoon. The traffic MOVES at 85 or 90 at long periods of the rush hour. Any attempt to travel 55 or 65 (speed limit) will be disasterous to the commute of thousands of people. Yet your On-Star then reports that you are traveling for 2 to 2.5 hours per day at CRAZY SPEEDS, your evil without consideration of the real facts.

The real existance of such monitoring systems is alarming and will be hard to fight.

Its always easy to justify and vote for laws which on the surface make things 'safer' for people, while potentially hurting the freedoms we enjoy.

How many times have you been passed by a police officer who does not have his lights/siren on, who is driving well above the speed limit? While that commuter drives 2 to 3 hours per day in high speed traffic through all sorts of weather, his/her driving skills safely aquired without ever having an accident are negated by the so-called skills of the professional drivers - state troopers - who spend perhaps 8 hours per day on the roads (much of the time on the side of the road watching others drive).

The safety utility of On-Star comes into play when you are in an accident which is not witnessed on a not-so well travelled road, and helps is no where to be found. Then on-star can send rescuers to your aid. This is clearly a great idea! But the potential negative effect on hundreds of thousands of drivers in a real measurable financial sense perhaps negates the true social benifits to the few in that very rare situation. I mean more than the fine, your insurance rates can sky rocket, you can loose the privalege to drive and not be able to get to work; not because you WERE DRUNK and KILLED SOMEONE, but because you and your cohort were GOING TO WORK.

No image your making the top 100 drivers in the NY Times for speeding on a daily basis? Such fame! All for traveling WITH THE FLOW OF traffic.

Now I could go somewhere with this comment which will get us all in trouble so I will stop here! It suffices to say that the mix of DRIVERS GOING TO WORK has become more heterogeneous.

Mike

[Snow]

Whoa, if such a system would be used against me, I would be seriously bothered. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and unknowingly tracking speed and mileage in my eyes shouldn't be tolerated if it's a private car. If it's a company car, then I would have to think twice about it. :eye:

[Finnus]

Just think how the On-Star data could be used in a lawsuit! :vgrumpy:

Finnus
:addict:

[nene]

I think it's time for me to call On-Star and turn it to Off-Star!!!

[Bauer]

After my 1 yr "free" membership is up I am not going to re-sign up. So the question becomes......do they stop watching..I would assume yes but who knows. This is a VERY disturbing topic for me and I think it is something that deserves to be watched VERY closely.

[Audihead]

I'm not jumping into the privacy aspect of this. I just thought you'd like to know they can run on-board diagnostics on your car from the dealer when you're on the road. I just thought that was pretty cool use of this techno stuff.

:s4addict: -Bimmerhead

[Bauer]

just thought you'd like to know they can run on-board diagnostics on your car from the dealer when you're on the road.

Yes that is pretty cool....However if it is between that and someone tracking me...well off it goes. Plus if you have a lap top amd the proper connector you can do it yourself.:cheers:

[Audihead]

Originally posted by Bauer
Yes that is pretty cool....However if it is between that and someone tracking me...well off it goes. Plus if you have a lap top amd the proper connector you can do it yourself.:cheers:

The tracking works both ways, if someone stole your ride they could find them as well. I like that feature, especally living in Detroit.

:s4addict: -Bimmerhead

[Bauer]

I totally understand the merrits of the system and think they are great. However GM is going to use the info to offer insurnace...which means you are being watched and all of that data is now being SAVED. Think about that everytime you speed.....there is someone tracking you and saving the data. That REALLY bothers me and to me the merrits of the system do not out weigh my privicy.

Also, if the car gets stolen...I have insurance that is what it is there for or I could look into a lo jack system depending on their privicy agreement.

It is a shame because the system is such a great idea but my privicy is more important to me.:cheers:

[Aronis]

Tracking a stolen car is a great idea, but as with Lojac, there has to be an available police officer to go get 'em.

So, do you call On-Star to have them tell you where your car is, grab a few friends and a couple of guns and go after the car?

I agree that you need to consider the actual utility of that system. You have to weigh the actual risk of your car being stolen, vs. the risk of being 'noted' somewhere everytime you pass the speed limit.

I think it is safe to say that everyone on this board (poster or reader only) speeds, and I don't mean once in a while. How many of you go 30 in a 30 zone? You drive at a speed which feels comfortable for you. But if you are going 40 in that 30 zone, you are breaking the law and can be fined. If you have an automatic system to tract this then they will go after 100% of the fine money they can.

[Audihead]

So if you take your car to the track or do an autocross your insurance will go up because of your speeds. I think this is something that the courts will have a field day with. I can see the court system jammed with lawsuits for insuance red-lining and privacy violations. This information is for our benefit. There have been court battles over this already and they will set a precedent for the future. So keep you system and enjoy it, if your insuance messes with you change it.

:s4addict: -Bimmerhead

[bilbozilla]

I obey the speed limits in residential and school zones. Anywhere else ,and I'm looking for the clean line through the corner.

I do not like this idea of On* tracking you the way they have the ability to. GM offereing insurance AND have thing their vehicles with On*? That's just not right. I second the comment about not resubscribing when my subscription is up. Also, how in the hell does one lock their keys in this car? You really have to work at it. But it is nice to know On* can open it for you.

As far as getting your car stolen, my feeling is if they want it bad enough, take it - but I don't ever want to see it again. I have no idea how the cretins abused it, nor do I want to know. I simply know that I don't want it back. I had a superbike stolen out of my garage once, and it was recovered with scratches on the fairings several weeks later. I argued with my insurer as to the abuse the vehicle encountered and the potential danger such abuse could have on me, and the insurance company totaled it out.

Now, if this was a Lambo or an Enzo or something really exotic, I'd be singing a different tune. I also, however, wouldn't be parking it in the street for all to see.

[Aronis]

People who have such exotic cars typically would like the publicity caused by having their car stolen!

:D

[Benman]

Originally posted by bilbozilla
I obey the speed limits in residential and school zones. Anywhere else ,and I'm looking for the clean line through the corner.



:D :D Wrong or right, i have similar feelings.

As for the On Star, i will not be renewing after the 1 year free trial membership is over.

Ben:addict:

[Aronis]

I want the Cell Phone Function without the other bs......

can you do that?

Mike

[gmbh6]

Originally posted by UrQ
Have you read the privacy policy on On Star, you give them the right to do anything, its a nasty policy if you care about the data they can collect about you.

Policy Schmolicy ... any good attorney will have a field day with OnStar if they were to give Insurance companies this information without you "expressively" giving consent.

Not just burying it deep somewhere in 6 pt. Font.

OnStar sucks, they charge you extra for everything..........I've never renewed it on any of my cars.

Question: If you're not using it you can still access it in an emergency right?

[Klint]

Originally posted by nene
I think it's time for me to call On-Star and turn it to Off-Star!!!

I was thinking along the lines of "Death star" as a more appropriate name for it....:looking:

If this is true, which I seriously doubt then they also would have "warning systems", with radars, bleepers and flashing lights within the control centre...everyone should then start exceeding the local speed limits. That'll get you popular, while expressing your views through your actions. (Not the wisest thing to do but the most fun) :D

Here's some entertaining stories I grabbed from another forum: (Unedited)


Melodie's 20 year-old son worked in a body shop. He was screwing around with some buttons on a customer's OnStar system today. Ten minutes later, three cops showed up at the business with full lights and sirens! I guess the owner works for the DOD and had some special codes plugged into his OnStar unit! I laughed my a$$ off over that one!


When I used to work at Avis, my service agents would come running in saying the car was talking to them. They would hit the Onstar button cleaning the rearview and the operator would start talking to them.


This lady had onstar in her SUV. Her husband borrowed the car and was gone for quite a while. She got worried that something might have happened to him, so she called onstar to locate the vehicle... they located it alright - it was at a motel where her husband was having an affair!


Friend had just bought a new truck with O.S. We were all camping that night ready to go rafting the next morning in a campground with ~150 other campers. After a few select beverages, he decided to show us how O.S. worked, but instead of hitting the info button, he hit the 911 red button. We got an operator, but just like a cell phone, where we were, the reception was spotty at best. We could hear her, but she could not hear us. She kept saying " Mr. Beck, are you injured..over and over and over" Finally, we gave up trying to get directions to the local liquor store, and closed the connection. 15 minutes later, 4 Volunteer Fire trucks show up and cross the river on a dirt road,a Helicopter and more CHP and Sheriff then we knew what to do with. We were still all drinking around the campfire wondering what all the commotion was, and decided to head to bed around 1-. At 3.30, the Sheriff came to the truck, read the VIN (as he still had dealer plates on) and went to each tent in our area, looking for Mr. Beck.

Apparently, the On-star signal had sent an "AirBag deployed signal", and the GPS was about 30 feet off, on the other side of the river/in the river.

Oh, and all the Firefighters, were guides on the raft trip, so they were not to happy with Mr Beck, as the day started at 7am, and they were on a bogus call till 3.30.