Hopping on the O1E bandwagon

[NerdyDeeds]

5HP24 is on it's way out. Doesn't make financial sense to me to have it rebuilt just for it to fail in another 30k miles so I'm going down the path of the 01E conversion.

Plan is to use the SteveKen kit with his starter and I picked up a 2.7T donor car (sans motor/trans) for driveshafts, axles and pedals. For the transmission itself I'm debating whether I should get a good used one or a bad one and rebuild it. The good used would obviously be easier on the wallet but I also don't want to have to pull the engine again anytime soon. I'll be deleting the rear O2 sensors and SAI while everything is out.

Things I haven't decided on are gutting the cats (I don't have emissions in MN, so no concern there) and the clutch/flywheel combo.

The only other concern area I have is the health of the turbos since there has been quite a bit of oil in the driver side intercooler pipe.

[NerdyDeeds]

I started last weekend, got most of the work done towards pulling the engine/trans out. I'm got the TotalTechnik video, definitely worth the $30!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/34Ai-93WsW502D1LzB6IUYhUebtHBjUdvKqu12oGdIFYk9t-GeXkCmpeQh7aS6w0pnCRqViLQUUeOZpLpCwrsBf4wyXztzJ-yfBCi1HpXR-JIITjO0Y738Pt8kCIcP-p005bLVrBOQ-IQkuUhZusDKm-A0YEGrWCDw0USQbtFKqyHPIu78_Zoddwa_1Sm-WRnqaruWUouC9IasGZiee0BE2Gtjprt7wBHMVRGVgNZWGnzOv2 nSPOEINLT9cyG4sA-rPDBlFMGTMso49ev_kv-MgxnnF8P6seiFxplhGokjWxrwyAmLix3KHZsQRT-gaJLK5xZmTDS_YEzlSV7_lAzRkHrB_K1g_HPa6BYd1nWXDBuK_ 7giiClughgk643ruyPhA_CMCTB3Eis-rA9lELylREK5JDAD1X5PDVvMQgEbwLVKI6AWCyylxhRwiH4Vk5 W6zq5wcXK0SbX2Htm1zzqDxuoKzVBL4kUDb78P9NssJv23TIna FeshDQ0a1FvCvNzOaMGzWQ9LWI0lPOYolW4UUzQeUOWB9RtHHK cYkP3_aLpIiP5Sv78FnrkNu9qvKGeAoKGwRTh-dy-LvbqRzQTYOJOuuqjwDuV9FGBus3_CVALOFsQ_kIJffUZGLcOB0 G47O1dPCQQGrWMtsF86rhxXacshGz9ktDbIs8IN5dzgfjE5p4H wYH9XK0DsmUCEz8H2XC6KWYjKP6iCOyCKDfN1G5=w3040-h1478-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q5Put3X-M6QwSzjx3n63aI1eEf_oQiIXZpCZHhA0b3mi4Ax0c1ImGhAgNE zGhQ1UQeApqTFO7iWNAZpWPDiT9aZkCVH1B4eXVu4-nCeV1PkxhAgkemiiQdP-6Zl-0zVRhCYxMHE5kFX06kNqJ0vXFnfix9jAUW3u9DTN1JThhG_cKC igV1UUiQn_5rDbb4VDFyvXYlKZ1IAi2FvKvqV3uk_4WGhQep9I UKbGER-MAalve1XW-4Nwxzh89IUh85ZDfABSO55eADRvSx6MGFLxx3z84Xykrvokpji gMf6PTwjactgZjOQDpqPjRhEAOuISZk_4f4ynznDqVObT9ZraW L8R_6YUa2KJDQLb9xyWuHMploycvUJNv0HBKeodqM4y5cH5m66 MjWzLJ6ExWjXprytuRE2C3iCzAR5QaA5DHXG6TmWERkyTphwzz hhn7gquCuEAZJw2YM3b2Ag9_79YJ9rDzkIMx1bRouKlJhnqwlS sMGS3g6v7SHqcQq7_3VnGTJ6uBddQbV3Ye8ApCBoPhoRtOHSoA NcgolG1vNSB1lCcCN2z8N2hlvtI174DIVBu7ILwQbvnlgxYg6H ILRpHTpJCiUyjZZKtLuZ0xu08oenlEFtG9cTsKzdTngBoPLMSJ 1dopQf4-exrxYEITZcPVuJojh0jF-xchsvVCUQeBS6nRhU6vVfQ6fZ8gWs4Ex0nVANyXISeTZtPbqLc T7WAg7YC=w1605-h780-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4RHIDF6HzMr1y-5mDhRbqJfIbTEr4Ybs-P-1qpxnDJM-Uflrdf9TkBSAmNKXsB7NGBCIftEgpl4pe67udfllqdKG9n53EO epydsJZZiLSqJfTtpvMpeCewAKuil_gs2um6w0ay8XokMTwVT1 Hd0qg5bWBFO4MYi6TKg3_ohoE3_5i8voHLl_KagAthVwc4rkwH Yq0UAVOgLJvqyQQ1H49DCzuSv0yRXVfUxGiq09PGwMz7oZUEiC 7uyIbr9-zOQAUQtBReAzs-YN-ES2JDqdcyeEOXcWe0PkAMfnBwnp6cxFZbzE4d80w8tz1Zk73IO jxd_B1a2RhdNtsDBCEfWsE99qAq2LcNpyId4dlBaVXeusorNTm nETBFOeg8FY57ZBnN7aUmLuf6bQe5XYUo1AXKjjnHguoPTcRCf Cn-Y2KXrbS-UFV4uRi9bBiLh5bYLnVti59GW9Vd-Pdxp74C6dgJsybjbagICu1jAZzpKRcithDs7EJwsxDScB7naXu TI8P4CIXbfD8shd5FSZOqZMt3gAzYBETT2Nr4tn3kTxt8768GC smOoIUTAczEc13ffPHXVI_dqQmT2f0QVZXhvXvPYf29CdNj9FH WvxWeIiR6vshlaUST_STbpKFnO6Se6i-ZjLJJuOPSfllvUA2WtjiDBNkgt86Qg1QRjHA1T4X99QMJ-EGZNn3LMh3-IIvWnnRF302nGiz0xiXER_udTd0I4p=w1605-h780-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hmfsfOgV7IfIWVNjWoRALhFU6WaBTpJuHHtr1gU1_pMVZGlxP3 pM1xruHcUBQOfvP5giK685YgJUnMJ15soR2_3Yq1YyV5BCTEki FCsBBh7arLqM2LQLmcICp7inJDMIuey7ZSEQo_xyp_m8wCa9Fw 9RySQCdQBDvf1MQk9tvvCJk7WawZgqGRgrBJ6xmQfqS157MBU8 8k6OTlOcxPfs1ERCzB8Y8xEiSiR7FwWIKA-JsQJCCqfgoyStOhdfTYErbKPLqOV5ZqFZz_7qxyh9H5nDUiMjR pgEFx-ZYYICztJ6xk7wDC4OOhLJb_BcSL3ixRMQxSTEYVSKNGnK_yfpT M70U9h1A3BSnkwAh4X0yPgpouYYelWVg-UX-ehDxAodYDRjxNBSg0pwC7Ukjj-zRmCBo8s3J1V1YePHgF9Ncg8tzT3QHQ-n2rW-Yvaz2F6cv7KzEGyPicljRqdE9zd7XH57HoXmszQDZBHIU-WOxGfd8DGp4i9uiP93pRuRzrKGvN8mbjJAsFmVBnhPzQzO3nLz N6KI9ywOjmluG9c0gTtWdqfTAF9BqJrV5leLnkZB59za0sr4n6 D7oNcYVCUh1ggx_6MNRBx-dzxQGFBIRKlW-ufvKMAK0un2NnV0VSKeKjFa5G-0kXpb9HiYHE_o9PF-QEA6eqYAOwy205k9jwa2DXBRTVoF67j8fP3eHGzuJTFaMXOSuy JsoRWNXV4q0u2u=w1605-h780-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Pn5xP7uH1sdRIfCq0j5VzVXJfeiNVIbrZVXTFSxq842HAB7jrD vEBRN_oJ7_jgq1FkCeadeihtx_KKe2AYhwRo5-95-A2BV8BZ0RW4KEwIjoMG1OAkTt-uOmBLAnVYGPF4T2oXRHK7A-9rHSK34zbGWp2lumrNnGPrxaMTdVM34MEdrAcdSVsuMA2Xyfqw RxTg2q73Eowp9jHRV6e3d9GkHw1wXrlKV0RgkaIzxVbftgMjko 5DD7JWMA7yt2Naf2VPeYPMPmNbYWmqyGr32iTy0K_b8kF6FakB 4f_fG1n7uSv6u5_h7cBGyydUklat8U0IMSjKrfmtUnN6janbe7 A78b2KJRhVX15LtG6uL3G9J7I1EwYpEzXfmmH1W7k1yXcU7x6k 8aCV8br8MeCTL9ENhDDvmXXjAhOmbTWbqDqQdvqbW9wWXQq59G h7V4KdIFGA6jXE8UV18CKUVJneQw-6sxU7gezViEJyLim2s2BmqR2wHf5hElJO3kNjdozYz7hI2MkuK 8iTeHobVOZ1NOLBmGh7bpgWN0xUBy7O3XgN_1sT4wzDrJAmH-DSvmlj-XCOKEV5dkKrNYw31rK5FAuohsiF4slxaFmQe6dMuj1PqWvmOpf dNpnY30AjlhDCq5TAnVGfjpKmKZ2W0m7_dGfbh8zQmQ_VCmrkg GYa3dCZwX0-Y_YOfC8uuoH6kYNkrk9RsXJLXpbVnrKEPwQnIsl1_l=w1605-h780-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Pn5xP7uH1sdRIfCq0j5VzVXJfeiNVIbrZVXTFSxq842HAB7jrD vEBRN_oJ7_jgq1FkCeadeihtx_KKe2AYhwRo5-95-A2BV8BZ0RW4KEwIjoMG1OAkTt-uOmBLAnVYGPF4T2oXRHK7A-9rHSK34zbGWp2lumrNnGPrxaMTdVM34MEdrAcdSVsuMA2Xyfqw RxTg2q73Eowp9jHRV6e3d9GkHw1wXrlKV0RgkaIzxVbftgMjko 5DD7JWMA7yt2Naf2VPeYPMPmNbYWmqyGr32iTy0K_b8kF6FakB 4f_fG1n7uSv6u5_h7cBGyydUklat8U0IMSjKrfmtUnN6janbe7 A78b2KJRhVX15LtG6uL3G9J7I1EwYpEzXfmmH1W7k1yXcU7x6k 8aCV8br8MeCTL9ENhDDvmXXjAhOmbTWbqDqQdvqbW9wWXQq59G h7V4KdIFGA6jXE8UV18CKUVJneQw-6sxU7gezViEJyLim2s2BmqR2wHf5hElJO3kNjdozYz7hI2MkuK 8iTeHobVOZ1NOLBmGh7bpgWN0xUBy7O3XgN_1sT4wzDrJAmH-DSvmlj-XCOKEV5dkKrNYw31rK5FAuohsiF4slxaFmQe6dMuj1PqWvmOpf dNpnY30AjlhDCq5TAnVGfjpKmKZ2W0m7_dGfbh8zQmQ_VCmrkg GYa3dCZwX0-Y_YOfC8uuoH6kYNkrk9RsXJLXpbVnrKEPwQnIsl1_l=w1605-h780-no?authuser=0

My Big Helper:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uSCUjg1DM4P7_tPdMEPqddirqYA5Ih5uTAaBmcSpaok6LphAS6 RDTmDWgNhwCugAE9dDf9lY89Gn9FzdR3xbq1HEbtrS8IrEZmXg u3DA4XTVxHd_oMOAm5jh4imrE0-w3PYx4BCE2iW5gmQpAPZuFP2ddfE09vv3UpPIuO-iW3R8s4hzvAuKs6_cSJHLmlytlv2qKCxoXGu246Qioi1rTYy1p lEyQkksNi22vtCFeR2ZwL0Hp9SKGX-9ZNwBn9Lv8Qnc5kWhDCuYltKPB-bJm4FIWS9Zpw3V-1fu7iJrIkCcTRPMBBuwNnazHZdbQby2UbYJSPqbIDxx7U-CmwcnrOHzWYO8fkGoVSEA_sclRuLDZ8D24ckDv-yCAqazEiEMX50wUeM1c5KlrmUMkPoxOz19c8-rubMF9jyE4CxPLyHl9JuaRd0cAF5dLAeZmoa6o5O846Stp0qPi z6l76LDnDjKyDzpnwXLcUuVqkEHwi039ghGpzMlw9lF2vOLJZk cXSEZMiMruwt46J6-Pjhqeqem_vWnXWj_1BX3moA-_DvStmyJBuiXaJr7gitBU_83En-7ks4UmsAA4vyx_UhpeCw4rUQiKZFnP8fRXqWvFUyP5Y_lMo9_l KW-lzCIGFGyK_kLHwdf9X0axU32iYEWO9FRdRfINSt_6aDhvHVQYr fyP2WzY2e9JwLnHBVVUEoEccfelpXHaMrxYGYZAvpgZgFS=w16 05-h780-no?authuser=0

[NerdyDeeds]

Continuing disassembly, I got the cats off. There's one turbo to manifold nut that's stuck, the one on the driver turbo nearest to the transmission. There wasn't enough of the triple square exposed for the bit to engage and I've managed to round the exterior hex a bit.

I'm thinking that drilling out the stud is going to be the way to go, then I can get the turbo free from the flange. Then hopefully there's enough meat left that I can extract the stud with a vice grips or weld a nut back on to torque it out.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AGGK3I97mMIiM5ii5afU_J5jKtryLo_ilhYRDNvra4ER8PXTUh b_qYFOB9oVHVhjIwkMZo1yByTrY644PYuLwyJN1mHFaeJDYxfD r4p0WVnp44-k5kPv2y7AgZ6sm5iwpCkBO3tzfmfenqlonv8sz3VYtjjbtuloS NaGV74uM_kozx1dUg_3Rra1nf3m77rYRhabY0ErZMtimnLQ1zl JfVmuDLqX7wX9Ivi_sdbEGKOKtZRcB_wSXlwI_0x-5HfE2GOVv98NjMi3InVyoBvzgamXyWyH48IOtHRiPkQMtjYuBj Yq_nlRFH6V8NZ9ldi4W1rTi8vL-NFMIzmnqXklEpfnGCHlsZAyXYk6cZ33AK5rQJONWmIcYb9delE 5GjEpArNQoFUguYXCZg1_shpny3JTXC93vDzwCSU5pZAZYIMqh iihX5XUpva0OdtUJges-d24jPTeNW-2QbDT94JqK1EWezTr7VWcnt19U39qh0H_u6rvQhnJBp5T8XMHg WkVZ2dPRE_uzMHg2tnhTo9jczk6axXdwqbAhBxWEwYwTUIy8P0 ZHKyyCmd56-OEcwTP-iuohs5Ddqm3cu5XXWhSEA0AjsKVdc-plbPG4CbCsd7GBtEDqMOOKxpbVJs5hF1FX7duJPlQMIt6XC2zO YJnYUVIMeK9SGLLbaufGJJbvfe1qxIXxenfLksIF0kpXlwvf72 b0t-l8IDIqseI2ASNqfSE=w949-h1952-no?authuser=0

[Muggy]

Congrats on jumping in on your project! I'd definitely do a turbo rebuild if you have everything apart...I did it and it's easy and not very expensive with some Melett CHRAs. Also, I totally agree on the TotalTechnik video...saved me a lot of time and headache with some of the simple tricks that matter if you haven't pulled the RS6 motor before. Good luck on getting that stud out...it was one on my biggest fears on my disassembly, but I got all of mine out ok.

Keep us posted on your progress!

[NerdyDeeds]

Muggy, where'd you source the CHRAs from?

Stud came out pretty easy once I cross drilled and put a screwdriver through it.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rvlwNsRwI3vujRMR7TlKbtvWbH_vT4AR-hUX_dFgtmN3fNFPxazsTyO8G43E1lsgEiniKtSmg-UOzaSXP7-Z-vD1jovor38qCIcyJM5pd6oXQays5DjlQ4iBgJ-z5ffGAT8U-zmdAgraFmph9K39bJHGsguYE9FhHnjy1xVJJJ__AcOuyAxKRvp wwaxW53GGGf0DkctyEK1k5kXXKX4HvuuaSo1Whcizbyr8A-yZ1iR-QYBRPuFUBWG3w3-XUzuGLxJUZrUpc-CbSUDEibUTTuxGmy0lqmFbsfPWvE8huysLN1jxQZo87FlF3CgX 7W_fCF25rhZFEtaHI5Kt5mmNZZMKuTWTWmozNoFRrKg15bpqNQ ExWsnHRJrWaZGjj_OqtfyiXb-ajpIhW5rCZge09ApM1imQd0_QIXTBUy4aROZDnM6EfdBMCRCxR Ure907sMYvAsNEKhYCkj9C8YsYapf4kvl8pDgZUzyJuPn2EfCm 53m4130Z4tznuu3IlLtRS2Y1atDjOKJV3oazsnQLqR0R4dbzau RiKQz88f75tNJS7_QRmkr4LsOYYTMqRNpUYdPa9KdaNcNCZlvg 0s0FK3HAIvZsl6qnvsCRF15q3SOZiJqPyTvcEsj5ewOrX-hih2L8rv2v0-twMReSWQj6uCRFE1-zgZ2RUnC5zI8H4OtuRumPnqv7EflLYs1ioVeu5ORhRfECqScoj FFo1BY2_Goo8=w648-h1332-no?authuser=0

Next up is separating the transmission from the engine.

[Muggy]

I picked up mine from
https://www.turborebuild.co.uk

Shocked that they came in about a week from the UK! Seem like quality units with balance sheets for each included. I haven't run them yet as my motor is still out though...

[hahnmgh63]

A lot of the oil you see in the Intercoolers comes from the PVC system and not from the Turbos. How many miles on the car? If it is a fairly high mileage car it's still a good idea to rebuild the Turbos while the engine is out. RS6 motor is a great candidate for dual Oil Catch cans.

[NerdyDeeds]

@hahnmgh63, it has 155k on the car so it's probably due anyways for a turbo rebuild.

Update:
I have the car and engine pretty much stripped as far down as I was planning on. The valve cover gaskets had a little bit of weeping but once they were off it looks like the left side cam chain tensioner is shot. The guides are worn out for sure. The right side tensioner guides look good and the chain is tight and when I push down on the tensioner it gives a little then pops back up. With the left side the chain is loose and there's no give/return of the tensioner which makes me pretty sure that it needs to be replaced. Does that sound right?
Right tensioner:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d92GjMqWSVGHdDs2a44HrefD7JPqR8bQmHeu4IYdPEWbwo3o_ DBOte7gI42PWZCEIk0xA2TQGzYIcTf2ZuOKvPOSmF1RcdfrpyX XIIjVevsUs1wtmoVQS0QEMHs80J1QsGA0m5fCBJv1Khu_m_39c Yow=w1724-h839-no?authuser=0

Left Tensioner:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c7FC0jV7lcZuiMm_kr9bsTxaAIo5_lcH9dyPSA3HSVya2Kmru sGSXsRxMxUbFaTVDL_m9IsTDkQGMgAy7EJJYgJjbF2OVaBkqdE 4pnQJQ1czjIkBMHImtsbq5oG4M-EdK1T_odu4OTBFty7fIm3k371g=w655-h1346-no?authuser=0
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cXuQ27mb3yl7p2pqCnP6FI705jEOWhsa-jXBXEBxO4laC1s7WZh0Kni5BbFG6kNwDFd0eUuLBqd-OYT3MGu1d0nVaqHh7R105V23gMsNYLbfLjC22YW6IjKShw8bX_ 0Mg1EUPpwIeRMAkukajiKTMusg=w655-h1346-no?authuser=0

The other area of concern is the rear main seal. There's a *little* bit of oil weeping through the seal, you can kind of see the light reflecting off of it. The bigger worry is where the rest of the oil on the back of the block is coming from. Could this just be oil from other parts of the engine migrating up from below?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e6mxfS0hyFhZwHZzJzoMC3PHlFUs9R2P7ww_nDc1uwWb1M4BY 5lGvF_aUIG5X_sGDt2Igb-IwoCXZ_g1tldS5LiA5aPnJly4Aglh8ADUhjSp2dr9HmJA1Vxkn vofLv-67cEdbxk5PVshbGOPAuYZVTtw=w1724-h839-no?authuser=0

[Muggy]

Tensioner shoes are shot for sure, but you know that. For the tensioner itself, there is a point in the rotation that it will be slack on the top side...do you have a lock pin in the crank yet? If yes, then the tensioner is toast, but I can't imagine that it didn't sound like a jackhammer under the valve cover being that loose while running and even jump time on the cam. I'd give it a few rotations and see what the action is on the tensioners before replacing.

On the oil leak, mine was the same...I actually had drips coming down from the crank which were hard to see in pics, but definitely there. I was getting drips out of the two holes in the bell housing and running back on the transmission pan. I replaced my rear main seal with the whole plate assembly OEM from Audi...you can buy just the large gasket aftermarket, and some have been successful with this, but I'm not taking a chance on this part. Replacing is very easy, just not cheap, IIRC about $375 for the plate/seal combo OEM.

Quick note on the crank bearing spacer that you need to remove, go with the tap method...I tried pulling, but was unsuccessful...ended up cutting and grinding for a few days very carefully not to damage the crank...go with the drill, tap, and bolt method first.

Unfortunately, my photo hosting site crapped on me and went black...I've used it for 20 years...real bummer as my thread is now photo less for the most part....:cry:

I do have all of the pics on my phone, and may try to reload through my new host if/when I can find time....

[NerdyDeeds]

I don't have the crank pin in yet and it tightened up after rotating 45 degrees or so. Now, is there a part number for just the guides??

Thanks for the heads up on the bearing spacer. I don't have a good bearing puller for that so the drill and tap method sounds the best.

[Muggy]

Unfortunately, Audi doesn't sell just the plastic shoes...lots available on eBay and that's where I picked mine up. Kind of hit or miss on these...I tried the RKX ones to support a US based business, but found that they did not fit correctly. The issue with them was the area where they snap on to the tensioner, it was more rounded and not squared off like the OEM and wouldn't stay put to my satisfaction. Good thing I guess is they are cheap if you don't like the first set that you find. I also sprung for the Audi tool...about $25 I think from Europa, but no issues with it cracking to pieces like the cheap copy that comes with some of the shoes.

[NerdyDeeds]

New shoes are on hand, hopefully they fit.

I have the new CHRAs installed and spinning free. Unfortunately when I was taking them apart the nut on the drivers side wastegate rod was frozen and I sheared the rod. I'm going to cut another length off then thread the end to put a coupling nut in the middle along with a new piece of threaded rod that will go into the arm, so no big deal there. A little bit of researched I did looked like the wastegate should open between 6-9psi, but I didn't find a clear value. Any input here would be appreciated.

It also looks like I have been spinning the engine backwards while taking the transmission off and getting to TDC. TotalTechnik says to turn it COUNTER-clockwise and everyone else, including the Audi shop manual, says to turn it clockwise. Could I have damaged anything by going around a few times the wrong way?

[Muggy]

Cool, just make sure the shoes snap on and stay on...my first set would click on either side, but not both together.

On the wastegate, pretty sure that Nubcake mentioned further back in my thread to tighten enough so you can't spin the flapper around easily and then 2 more turns on the nut. Opening is controlled by the N75, so it's not like the old school way of changing the tension on this to mess with the boost on non computer cars. The only reason really to test would be to rule out any issues with the wastegate actuators, not so much for opening "pressure" settings.

On the reverse turning, I always heard clockwise...not sure of possible damage, but I doubt it with a few turns. Main issue I can think of would be for setting timing...definitely needs to go in the right direction for proper cam timing when you get to that point. That said, someone may chime in with other things to think about with a reverse rotation...I didn't think that resting the wheels on the ground without the axles torqued would be an issue, but apparently it destroys the bearings immediately. Check Jolio's old thread and see some balls rolling around in the street on one of his early test drives...I have new bearings to install when the time comes on mine.

You source a trans yet?

[jibberjive]

The only reason really to test would be to rule out any issues with the wastegate actuators, not so much for opening "pressure" settings.
I disagree. I would absolutely test wastegate cracking with every turbo replacement. A mityvac is cheap, and synchronization between the two sides is more important than the exact absolute cracking spec.

[nubcake]

Sync is important indeed.
That's why I usually tell people to use "it's just fully closed now" as a reference point & then add some more preload (same to both turbos!)
You will "automatically" get them syncronized this way. Sure, double-checking with a mityvac won't hurt anything, but won't bring any additional benefit either.

[jibberjive]

Different strokes for different folks. I would always recommend verification of synchronized opening. Wastegate troubleshooting is not fun with the engine in the car. It obviously comes down to preference though, and your way is not wrong.

[NerdyDeeds]

Since the passenger side wastegate didn't get disturbed I'm inclined to use the mityvac to find the cracking pressure then adjust the drivers side to match. They should open at the same pressure right?

I'm picking up a gearbox this weekend. I'm going to chance it on it being a good used box and spend the money on injectors and fuel pump for E85 conversion.

[Muggy]

Different strokes for different folks. I would always recommend verification of synchronized opening. Wastegate troubleshooting is not fun with the engine in the car. It obviously comes down to preference though, and your way is not wrong.

I appreciate the inputs from you and nubcake on this...so, for a double check, is there a good opening pressure to shoot for? I totally understand that balancing the 2 to open at equal pressures is the primary goal, but there is a big difference between 6 and 9 psi...do you have a target suggestion? I'm inclined to assume closer to 6, but a solid number from those that know would be appreciated.

[nubcake]

You can't adjust the opening pressure, it's regulated by the spring stiffness, regardless of how much you tighten them up. Spring ratio is linear & it's the spring ultimately "deciding" when to open the flapper in "boost-off" operation.

It would appear to make a difference when you do a mityvac test (since the volume of air is so tiny), but it's wrong. If overtightened - you're essentially just restricting the arm motion (thus, opening time & max flow through the flapper if it can't open completely anymore).

[NerdyDeeds]

You can't adjust the opening pressure, it's regulated by the spring stiffness, regardless of how much you tighten them up. Spring ratio is linear & it's the spring ultimately "deciding" when to open the flapper in "boost-off" operation.

The opening pressure would be regulated by the spring PRELOAD, not the stiffness. Once the wastegate is closed, any additional tightening of the adjustment rod is going to increase the PRELOAD of the spring effectively changing the opening pressure.




It would appear to make a difference when you do a mityvac test (since the volume of air is so tiny), but it's wrong. If overtightened - you're essentially just restricting the arm motion (thus, opening time & max flow through the flapper if it can't open completely anymore).

You are right here though and this is where the spring rate comes into play. The more you increase the preload of the spring the more you're also increasing the amount of pressure in the actuator required to open the wastegate fully.

[nubcake]

Again: spring rate is linear. You do not change it by preloading.
I'm not going to argue, you're welcome to listen to the info or keep thinking otherwise.

EDIT:
If you want to test it - don't use a mityvac. Take an air compressor with good flow & a precise pressure regulator.
You'll see, that preload doesn't change the cracking pressure. It'll always be ~0.35 bars with RS6 turbos.

[NerdyDeeds]

Yes, spring rate is linear, but the point at which the wastegate opens is determine by the spring preload set by the adjustment nut

Here's a diagram of the system with the actuator on the left and the wastegate arms on the right.
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19408&stc=1

The amount of force that the spring puts out is Fs=kx where k is the rate and x is the amount of compression. This is where the linear spring rate lives. The spring force is pushing left on the diagram above. Pushing right to open the wastegate is the force of the pressure inside the actuator Fp=PA where P is the pressure and A is the surface area of the piston.

If Fs is greater than Fp, the wastegate will be closed since Fs is pushing left in the diagram above and holding the flap against the housing. The cracking pressure of the wastegate is when Fs = Fp or kx = PA.

Since k and A are constants we can see that the spring preload (x) affects the cracking pressure (P).

So nubcake, your way of setting the wastegates works because you set the preload of the springs equally between the two sides by turning the nut around twice. I'm going to go the other route of determining the cracking pressure from one side (since I don't know how many turns of the nut they went at the factory) and adjust the preload of the spring on the other side until the cracking pressures are equal.

[nubcake]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.
What you describe there seems to make sense, but it doesn't really jive with the real world logs for some reason.
Possibly, the pressure change is very minimal, unless you really overtighten it.
I'll need to ponder this for a while.

Sorry for my tone, I was wrong.

[NerdyDeeds]

No worries. It could be very possible that the spring is already preloaded in the actuator and any ADDITIONAL preload that is added by the rod is minimal which would match what you see in the real world.

For example, it feels like it's maybe preloaded around 5lbs and if we assume the spring has a 1lb/in rate then moving the nut two turns only compresses the spring an additional 2mm or .080" which means we only add another .08lbs on top of the 5lb of preload in the actuator which is pretty negligible. I'll try to get some force and spring rate data, but I'm now leaning towards it doesn't make any difference like you said :D:D

[jibberjive]

Since the passenger side wastegate didn't get disturbed I'm inclined to use the mityvac to find the cracking pressure then adjust the drivers side to match. They should open at the same pressure right?

I'm picking up a gearbox this weekend. I'm going to chance it on it being a good used box and spend the money on injectors and fuel pump for E85 conversion.
You can do that, or even better, you can get a T-fitting and do both at the same time, for guaranteed synchronization.

[Muggy]

You can do that, or even better, you can get a T-fitting and do both at the same time, for guaranteed synchronization.

So I did a little fiddling this morning....Set up a quick T fitting and used my brake power bleeder which gives pretty accurate low pressure readings since it has the reservoir tank to pump up by hand, rather than just pressurizing with a compressor....each hand pump on the power bleeder is less than .1 psi, giving pretty good control over pressure.

When I re-set my wastegate actuators, I did the closed plus two turns of a nut to snug them up. This made it so you can still spin the flappers if you try, but can't get any tighter with more turns of the nut due to the springs. What I found was the flappers would just start to crack at about 3.7-3.8 psi, just enough so I could spin them with equal resistance with my fingers...did a pump at a time for just a hair more psi, and followed the resistance so they would match. I did make about a 1/5 to 1/4 turn on one nut to get them to match up, but the initial setting was pretty spot-on. Looks like they really open up from 4.3-4.5 psi. Purged and re-started a few times to compare, and results came out the same. So, it was definitely helpful to T this up to do them with absolutely identical pressure since the tolerance is too close to measure with most gauges...probably being .1-.3 PSI variance if you don't test as a pair.

https://i.ibb.co/R6qs1MT/9-E38-C07-E-BDF6-412-A-8-BFB-30-EE3-A3-F2701.jpg (https://ibb.co/9471JfH)

https://i.ibb.co/BVL1gHq/94-A3-EDEA-50-FE-456-D-9390-04-D8-DFE2-C7-F9.jpg (https://ibb.co/zhskSWG)

[NerdyDeeds]

Nice! I didn't get a chance to play with the force gauge this weekend, but it's still on my to do list. I'll definitely tee the two together when I do the final adjustments though. What happens, or what do you feel in the car, if the wastegates aren't sync'd or opening when they're supposed to?

[NerdyDeeds]

I made some progress on a couple of the mini-projects, but haven't really completed any of them yet.

First was to remove the spacer on the back of the crank shaft. Drilled out and tapped a 7/8" hole then threaded a bolt in to push the spacer out. It worked really well except I went a little further than I meant to with the drill.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eLvfCQYTBHuniqnzqkXGqk6r55SCE2SQfdw07HJkaVWYOJJbw yBgRZYlWRUAd4ezEDPz4R1m7_alW8F5rJ5SR_ZkLeeh-upTh6rPvnOvL0iAHmDmz7uG9daKPSPhQTt4IyjV7rto5adO35M W2g_Gz-mA=w1724-h839-no?authuser=0
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d3LDw6uKMcQQictuKLny7F8TVitE0oQPT9rbiaWR8dYXlkaPm X47LI67TOrLiG0S3JtYAnw9J3p8HHUevixqdoVboYPlh_T6ab5 yRGlSE6KY9G0EdDjB9hKbGi-GTGe4kNHbaOmjBrMMYt-LO6GpdkPg=w1724-h839-no?authuser=0
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3edXYhZ0wCD62u7QRQCxJRilLbGfhEYm8u_doyFYxXAbuRSQuv HN9GQH1zHaxm-qemV7Jvovo71fY7ZVjAEU0pyB-ad-6D4XE0HeOMPDEww2Vr4sxJmgWl8GVQbaA_vzpy3UEk0xgKHYKG 77DxHUJRxXQ=w1724-h839-no?authuser=0
Once that was out I wanted to replace the rear main seal since there was just a whiff of oil on the seal. Got the plate off and now waiting for the gasket.

A bonus project is now a water pump replacement (done 7000 miles ago) since there's coolant leaking from the freeze plug ::)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eX_mR8Q7pOhgF8BdkOYI96jqPhvcmuQWFtIsYoblfXlcSvzRB HGp3y49q5OVqSlUMK9FEmIKkV-crEFB1TiXSYHzPWMol6m63GlrgWtT4J-8gI7eyL-JonSJlma39bXFzm1qYK85Rc8648KM0h1JyFQQ=w655-h1346-no?authuser=0

Bigger injectors for E85 are in. I went with the Bosch/Porsche 630cc units. I noticed some insulation and other signs of old mouse activity under the intake manifold. I was going to leave it since it doesn't seem to be causing any problems, but then the knock sensor plug (green plug next to the injectors) decided to completely dissolve while I unplugged it so the manifold is coming off to replace it.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dDnmpnynBhI1w9xKwYZus5EUI2mIdxyMjZxKexQQoxjL5o7ld 9KqAyCWr_Qct1pjkbxgRDrhFCJfl3h1le1jeDNGJHj9Iz7_Cop MIyoZXqzzSg3TevT1sWvDHW5_SikE99jyd8FEw8xU6iLsRBgxP ukg=w655-h1346-no?authuser=1
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dxyncaOEbK3aVVDWTD9PtG8SJ51RiOwIVbgCmoERti4HAFZ7h YXD3OgI_SDuIyF7Uyd-hdWRT_eEd8GhljBsizDFbuf28ncxDM0W-OocK84iUB2sOBArLL0w9jMOHlw-8EjnIUT6-ZrNKfn_Ii2j2HEA=w655-h1346-no?authuser=0
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3evcVW2QdlladFCXEhgUC1yKN1_FKV0LzxJl0iK7PSJvZGJ_RS ByO2OHZi43becHl34EmFMXimnJT6jo0zvLV4dE27D3iBn9q_i6 hnGemu5OYeeDEzARSVwPjlf3onpvWEnwKGVCZfrwuqzuUHKHNc N1w=w655-h1346-no?authuser=0

I also have the camshafts out and the shoes replaced on the tensioner so that can go back together this week. I picked up the new(old) transmission locally which is most likely in need of a rebuild. I'm going to pull it apart and check but I'm 99% it's getting new parts. I'm thinking/hoping just the 1-2 shift collar and syncros from JHM should be enough. Otherwise the full rebuild kit isn't too much more. I do need to find a shifter box as well if anyone has one laying around they don't need let me know.

There was also plenty of forbidden espressogunk built up in the PCV hoses. I'm thinking this may have been why I was getting so much oil in the drivers side charge piping.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dmYCy9AlHEylAP0VEgs9Q3lh7n34i6gVvqE12_9eGc-hOLg74DmM7eJhP8F28qJs8UOoZXnSqApoTZwYjv4loB01Uf1ma s4nqw8PfcVTxiRnMwmC_h21jdUXWCnmfJpJlHdrGZxXN09CScd BCxNfoOTg=w655-h1346-no?authuser=0

[nubcake]

What happens, or what do you feel in the car, if the wastegates aren't sync'd or opening when they're supposed to?

One's too loose - you're not getting the boost you should be.
One's too tight - car feels very strong, but one turbo is always working too hard. You might occasionally throw an overboost DTC.

[RS8]

Why did you buy so small injectors when you are going to use E85 ?
630cc will only work for about 500 -550 crank hp on E85 and 3bar fuel pressure.

I have driven on 1000cc EV14 with E85 with RS6 ECU and air mass meter and it worked great with correct tune and 600hp+

but now I have changed to 1500cc but then without air mass meter and instead MaxxEcu Pro that controls everything.

[nubcake]

630s are fine for stock turbos & stock 4 bar FPR.
Which is also in the ballpark of power figures you quoted. :)

1500cc are way overkill, unless you're aiming for like 1k+++ chp.
1000cc are a good choice & readily available, but they need some mods to fit.

[RS8]

But you can buy different EV14 with adapters in top or bottom so it fits and there is several to choose on between 700-957cc

What I can read these 630cc flow this:
3 bar: 612cc / min
4 bar: 708cc / min

With 4bar
BSFC at 0.85 = for turbo and E85
Duty cycle 0.85
Then 708cc will work for 540 crank hp
With BSFC at 0.75 it will work to 600hp

I have seen a stock RS6 engine in a Ultima kit car so it had free flow air filters etc, this made over 600hp on E85 on stock Rs6 turbo's


And the big problem is when NerdyDeeds want more than 550hp then he must buy 8pcs new injectors again..
So better to buy "to big" now then have to change later.

[nubcake]

Your calculations are both correct & wrong at the same time.
Bottom line is these injectors are more than enough for stock rs6 turbos & E85.

[NerdyDeeds]

@RS8 I'm not planning on chasing HP with this car and the 630s are recommended from various people. I am going with a 5 bar regulator while I'm in there since that's pretty easy and inexpensive.

I was pretty satisfied with the stock power. The reasons I'm going to E85 are that it's easy to find in the midwest, I don't have to worry about the transmission anymore, and since I'm already having a tune done because of the swap I might as well have it tuned for E85 instead of paying for another tune later.

[nubcake]

I'd stay away from 5 bar FPR. Putting unnecessary strain on fuel pumps.
If anything, a 3.8 bar from Porsche 997tt is a much better option (it has a bigger return internally, which might behave properly with bigger fuel pumps).

[RS8]

Your calculations are both correct & wrong at the same time.
Bottom line is these injectors are more than enough for stock rs6 turbos & E85.

I'm using a injector calculator, and what I found out myself is to always go bigger than you think will work.

These are just kind tips from me so he do not have to buy new ones again in a year or so.

[RS8]

An example: These 1000cc injectors I used is rated to 3 bar/ 946cc, 4 bar/ 1080cc
With 3bar FPR and E85 they was open 79% on a dyno pull where I got 770hp or 642whp at 1.1 bar boost,
and if I use the same injector calculator it shows that I need 960cc to reach 770hp with 79% duty and BSFC set to 0.75

To reach 1000 hp I need 1246cc injectors, for 1200hp I need 1495cc injectors.

The flow can also vary 5-10% on these injectors, so you do not know exactly how much they flow if you do not buy them with flow paper.
So these 630cc perhaps only flows 590cc or less !

These new 1500cc I now have can vary up to 15% !! (This is what the Bosch factory in Germany told me when I asked them)
The one I have shows 1470cc on the flowpapier and all in 0% difference = 100% flow matched.

So you should ALWAYS buy flowmatched injectors and get papier on this !!

[nubcake]

I don't get what you're arguing about.
OP had already bought & installed those injectors & they're sufficient for his goals.

For your car - just by installing a 4 bar FPR you're going to 880hp "max" with 1000ccs at the same max IDC.
Then by pushing it to 90% (which is far from static and still within safety overhead), you get to ~1k.
(I'm not even talking how unrelated those figures are to the OPs car).

Flow variation is another subject & I know at least Bosch 1000cc have several "tolerance groups". I'm fairly sure the variation you're quoting is for overall "spectrum" of them all.
I don't have any papier proof, but in my experience "off the shelf" 1000cc 040 injectors are just fine, if all are marked with the same color dot (same tolerance group). Some clients had them flow-tested & ended up within 1-3%. Which is perfectly fine.
YMMV.

[RS8]

These were just kind warnings and help, if he has not used them yet then maybe it is possible to get them exchanged for bigger, but of course he does not have to do it if he does not want more power.


Regarding flow variation, I bought 8pcs 1500cc from a webshop that said that they were matched by Bosch but I did not get a paper on this so I let another company measure them and there was a difference of up to 11% between them! If I had mounted them, there would have been a risk that I would have melted some engine pistons.
It was after this that I researched and even talked to Bosch, so I returned these injectors and bought from another company that has flow-matched injectors, have since heard of others who discovered this flow variation from other companies.
One guy bought 1300cc injectors and after flow test it showed all had different flow and it showed between 1187cc to 1264cc

Bosch answered me: A normal tolerance is less as 5 % but this high flow injectors are without an orifice plate so it is possible to have 15 %.

So this is just a nice warning and something you should keep in mind when buying injectors.

[nubcake]

Do you have part numbers?
I have a strong suspicion you're talking CNG high-flow injectors & it's very typical for them to be so different.
1000cc 040s do have the orifice plate, and they're normally close together "as is".

I'm not sure why you extrapolate the issues with bigger (likely CNG!) injectors onto the smaller ones & still keep insisting the bigger ones are absolutely necessary, when it's not even the case.
A bit of a "unnecessarily create more issues for myself!" mindset.

Either way, I think that's a bit offtopic for this thread, so I suggest we stop this discussion. OP surely has enough info by now.

[RS8]

This is NOT CNG injectors.
My 1500cc has part no 0280158333

I don't know the part number on the EV14 1300cc.

The 1000cc I used before is 0280158040, they was bought as flow matched set.

But even the smaller ones like 630cc can have 5% difference!

[NerdyDeeds]

Slowly making progress here. Mostly still finding more things to replace/repair. The good news I had is that the transmission I bought looks to be in really good shape. No brinelling/wear on the gears/bearing races and all the syncros look like they're in good shape. I've still decided to do a full rebuild using the JHM syncros and upgraded 1-2 shift collar. I am also going to do the 4:1 center diff mod using the JHM shims which should be a hoot with the 6sp.

1st gear in gear condition:
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19426&stc=1

Someone had made a home under the intake at some point. I had to remove this because of the knock sensor connectors had disintegrated and needed to be replaced. Along with the sensors I'm also replacing the after-run coolant pump.
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19425&stc=1

The RS6 coolant pump part number comes with the mounting bracket and is no longer available. I bought 078121601 (Gates part number 41530E from Rock Auto) which is the pump and rubber isolator only. With this pump the inlet/outlet ports needed to be switched which was just a matter of unscrewing the cover and rotating it 180 degrees. I don't have a lot of confidence in the gasket so I need to do a pressure test before I reinstall it still.
Old on the left, new on the right. Notice the arrows.
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19427&stc=1

I've also taken off the oil cooler and found the bufkin pipe to be broken. I'm going to turn a new one out of aluminum as a replacement. Definitely use a high quality allen wrench when breaking the bolts loose on the housing. I used some sunex sockets and they stripped out. Luckily the Irwin screw extractors that grab on the OD of the bolt worked as they should and I got them out without much fuss. The Bondhaus allen keys with some taps of a hammer got the rest out.
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19428&stc=1

Aside from that I've replaced the intake cam seal on the passenger side and the crankshaft seal on the front and spent a lot of time cleaning up the block from the previous leaks. The water pump leak that I thought was from the freeze plug was actually just coolant wicking up around the gasket. When I did the water pump last time I had to put in a helicoil and left a burr on the sealing surface that didn't get knocked down. Should be good to go now with a new pump and hardware. The drivers side cams are back in and the valve covers on.

Next steps are to finish the rebuild of the transmission, replace the broken hose under the intake and get that back on, and re-install the oil cooler and filter mount.

[NerdyDeeds]

Lots of progress since the last update.

I got the trans rebuilt without any issues (as far as I can tell at this point). The 4:1 center diff mod was an easy swap of some shims.

The motor is put back together with the aluminum "bufkin" pipe to replace the broken plastic one along with new hoses and all new vacuum lines. I've spent quite a bit of time cleaning up all the oil/dirt that's been accumulating over the years so hopefully new oil leaks will be easy to spot. New timing belt, water pump, and idlers even though they were just a few thousand miles old.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVGl85W7IFbbFAi-hU144qo73LA4oOVXPiT5uWup1Q687AZwahMEIGiIyrrQuNrjEu TOh_iKy0vupQ2UfmrRx6Z76LpOo0Czt0JFjU_Ah0ovt5z3fqOW YdBV69OOI3iv-6rOM-sITXM0hAkLHlrlVLYig=w1556-h758-no?authuser=0

I gutted the cat's and wrapped the exhaust headers and down pipes as best I could. Got rid of the downstream O2 sensor. I sync'd the wastegates by putting the open end of a wrench on the actuator, then pulling with a spring hooked on the box end. I started with the wastegate that wasn't taken apart and pulled the spring so it was perpendicular to the wrench and measured the length of the spring when the wrench just started to move. I then did the same thing on the other side, adjusting the pre-load until wrench started moving at the same spring length as the other side.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVrBkL_9fA7VlMNL6QICwOCz-ZpAfb5dT6BWdIUbTvC4qjqYzjDO6oTQWXnq-eMblihoa7FQAVDHs-L62cZr_5KPCvBCzX240NF3sI_zx7jrJSmw3BLHQ0IsBlr3z2CW AZ7FkKn738y3r2s1-zmcTVgNg=w1556-h758-no?authuser=0

I've gotten the pedals swapped over and the wiring updated so we should be good from that side of things now. I started putting the engine back into the car, it really doesn't look like it should fit in there.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUTPe5Ad3FBS4VZN2BUR_cbgVAYKB8FjjFWiIaJmHTI-RBxV1gnCbSWWqCAJf99TxsfcX31mGskPlMqnsfCflDcNiUO3As Y5XFO-iUDCPuLsQYoQUv8_-Pu9VhKEwCFhSmc38eOb7gKxXL2JlCz9wlCEA=w1556-h758-no?authuser=0

I have the clutch bled, I hope. I did lock up the front output flanges and then spun the rear output flange by hand with the clutch engaged and disengaged and it seems to be working. There's just a weird feeling in the pedal when it's returning. The brakes need to be bled too, so maybe that's it?

I was going to re-use the stock motor mounts but I broke the connector off of one so now I'm waiting for the 034 mounts to come in before I set the engine down all the way. Just connecting up as much as I can at this point.

Another thing that seems weird is that I can't feel the stop between first/second gates and the reverse gate. My other manual cars have had the push down reverse to get into the gate. It looks like there may be some shifter boxes that don't have that feature, is that right? The part number I bought was 8D0711055Q - https://www.ebay.com/itm/203263161715?ViewItem=&item=203263161715

[Muggy]

Good progress! You should definitely have a push down lock on the reverse...the used shifter assembly that I got with my swap kit was trash and the reverse lockout tab was smashed off...
I went with the JHM setup that has a nice crisp lockout now, but should be the same with an OEM assembly in good shape. Let me see if I can take a pic of my junk OEM one to point out what to look for...

On the clutch bleed, even though it is technically attached to the braking system, it's really totally independent except for the fluid reservoir...that said, if it had enough fluid to fill the clutch system, the brakes needing a bleed really should not matter for the clutch. I used a power bleeder on mine to put a little positive pressure on the master, cracked the nipple open twice, and I was good! If the return feels funky, I hope that you have the clutch slave and throwout bearing all installed properly...the fluid shouldn't have much effect on the return action from what I can tell so far with mine.

[Muggy]

Take a look at this area on the shifter assembly...it should have a bit of a hook on the shifter (white) and beveled edge on the box (black, mangled on mine in the pic) that you need to push the shifter down to be able to engage.

https://i.ibb.co/6RBZ7M1/DFA8-CAD8-383-A-4486-B266-2-BA289-F9-A47-C.jpg (https://ibb.co/BVNP5pr)

https://i.ibb.co/B439HbQ/0-CF179-DE-5887-4510-AD7-C-A427-F6-EDE0-DE.jpg (https://ibb.co/rb0VKYz)

[hahnmgh63]

Also, with the O1E, due to the placement of the Slave cylinder, you get the best bleed obviously with a Power Bleeder but it helps if you have the rear of the car a little higher than the front, at least with the metal Slave cylinder, can't remember what the plastic one looks like.

[NerdyDeeds]

I used a power bleeder on the clutch but the grommet doesn't seal great around the bleed nipple and was letting air into the lines so it was hard to see when the fluid was coming out consistently. The weird feeling in the pedal happens when I pull my foot back quickly the pedal doesn't keep up and so the pressure on my foot drops away.

For the shifter, it looks like my shifter is a one piece shaft so it doesn't have a push-down ability. I think my path forward now is to get the JHM solid shift kit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWYMczaZnHvlSjNb6TzKCr90T6NJu_Ippm9sGvoqZrMSRpq9 0D3lp1rm_1iKedyzXuv9YrT3woAZL7C0OjYi_W5Aqj9ihRDsBf 2L2mmQwvZOTDJSKQVY6Mg8vgYiHVDw3JsVHr1dN8sCZlIbS11G VgtJw=w640-h1315-no?authuser=0

[Muggy]

Interesting about the pedal feel...I'd be concerned about that. The power bleeder that I used actually screws onto the master up top and pressurizes from the top down, so no suction issues trying to pull it down through the lines like the Mity-Vac style things do on the bleeder nipple. Mine so far has no issues at all on the clutch pedal and springs back quickly, hopefully someone else has additional thoughts...just hoping that everything is cool on your clutch assembly and pressure plate which I imagine would give feedback to the slave and then to the pedal. I've heard that it can be easy to install the slave so that the plunger doesn't line up right with the throwout bearing fork. Since the fork kind of floats on the hinge, I could see how that could happen pretty easily, resulting in a funky clutch feel...just a thought.

Also, did you re-use old lines for the master to slave line? Many times, the inside of the rubber hose portion will fail and collapse where you can't see from the outside...lets pressure go in when you stomp on it, but doesn't allow much fluid back with the lighter pressure from the clutch side...image a clogged artery when you see the pics of cholesterol clogging it up, kind of like a check valve in a bad way! I replaced mine with the braided stainless line and metal slave (and metal master too). In fact, the more I think about it, I'd say that this is a strong possibility for your problem if you re-used an old line.

For the shifter, I don't think that yours will work...just go with the JHM, its a beast! I also ordered the new plastic housing from them that it goes into for another $80 or so...mine was junk and not sure if their shifter would fit into what you have now.

[NerdyDeeds]

The hydraulics of the clutch feel good so I think it's something with the return spring. Did I get the torsion spring in correctly?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXmcn29PbJ2aArtYoTCf6j6OZttaLCy-P657syI_tKCbsTJ66lZVIg-8JEqrmyd3O1_nERwX4eidQqIFTscfErsduVQVcBkIMqhfSF-mVrbALb2_STV9ilOhsaxZufeWgl4-N7D32Am0_iahkJJUER5jw=w1316-h641-no?authuser=0

For the shifter assembly, it looks like I may have an early style unit that's just missing the reverse lockout. I'm working with JHM to figure out what I'm missing or if their kit takes care of my problem.

I also got the firewall fuse block wired back in. I couldn't find a good picture so here's what I did.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUO7rHjMQUCNuUZybW918gDdHUL6vkyu6xTXvgHLOTcE8dmn VE57YCs_2lMgZiSv0hg1k198gRZogGtcuhUswHOFzfQqpKEARm k79e1zNQ7KVKpwoCuXwlCO3INBCJ5bKT9ZOO8JEkDVnTyI7wHi t5jCA=w640-h1315-no?authuser=0

And here's a shot of the wiring for the clutch switch where the white wire is spliced into the white wire on the brake switch.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLU24crgNDUgn7jX7AwIS5EDOeZoqcz8X3GfnYvsEiPoP0_nP Rer_2iTRlEyWemMnOYiPp4MJtAF6l4oRfodul0REikahBSL5fw 2QAsmd-Xl39PMhnZIC-o7NfBVURZoXYNxQY5C-_v_cbcyytlnTIehZA=w1316-h670-no?authuser=0

[Muggy]

Return spring looks good...I think there is really only one way to get it in there...I'd still be suspicious of the soft part of the slave line...if you used an old one, they are definitely known to fail and not just on Audis, had a similar issue on my old Mini too. Pushing in should feel ok as you are putting positive pressure on it..but the return has a lot less pressure from the throwout bearing/clutch and return spring on the pedal.

Wiring looks good on both firewall and clutch, assuming that the other wire on clutch switch heads up to the ECU pin 39.

[NerdyDeeds]

I have the braided clutch lines. It could be I'm imagining something and when I'm actually driving it's fine. I checked the bleed again and I'm confident that's done correctly. The engagement is pretty close to the floor but I don't think there's much to do in terms of adjusting that at this point.


I went ahead with the full JHM solid short throw shifter and bushing trio. It sounds like all the plastic shifter bases are the same, and it looked like my shifter shaft was from an early style so I went with the early kit. I'm missing the clamping nut for the linkage still but it seems like the shifter more or less works right.

I checked all the electrical connectors and gave it a test fire for a couple of seconds and it fired right up which gives me the green light to start putting the front clip back on and getting coolant/oil back into the engine. I'm hoping I can get it driving sometime this weekend. I have half a tank of gas to get through before I can refill with E85 and put a tune on it and get the auto trans coded out.

One hiccup I ran into was with the alternator. While trying to get it back in I grabbed the back side and snapped off the connector. I bought a new voltage regulator but the connector on the harness was broken too. I cut one off the parts car but I forgot to write down which pin is used. Can anyone verify that there's just one wire going to the regulator and that it's in pin 2 of the connector?

[NerdyDeeds]

IT RUNS!!!

Still a handful of items to button up, but I was able to drive it around the block last night then to work this morning. With the bigger injectors and higher FPR it took a while for the long term fuel trim to settle down and lean out but it finally did. First impressions now that it runs OK is that first gear seems to be worthless, it's still fast even though I haven't gone past 3/4 throttle and 4000 rpm, shifting is nice but still needs some adjustment to get into reverse, and I don't like how high the brake pedal is compared to the throttle/clutch pedals.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVV4tXiWWu2HYA7E2MIYgiiSKUEI0MtZjUC-W9L7yJ9gkfpniv4-oqMkwu9AWQpoy1_HLN6g0EPQWfOQMWAw4Xgj3rjx9NhR3tSVZG 99B6tycmfuXDkeNJg9QFoU_aFW4PGlK-p3DyYz5c9NZgSeDRZuw=w1716-h835-no?authuser=0

[Muggy]

Great to hear! Congrats! I agree on the 1st gear...winds out instantly. Fortunately, I've never really been a launch and bang through the gears type of driver, more of a roll on to the power type, so hoping I get used to my gearing as well.

Brake and clutch pedal do have some adjustability...I was able to get mine to match up nicely without too much hassle, just be careful with that flimsy brake light switch as I broke mine right away...fortunately fairly cheap to replace and the new supersessions seem to be a bit better design and still plug/play.

My biggest issue now is trying to get some of the notchiness out of the shifting...while still being able to get into reverse. I have the full JHM shifter and linkage, and hope to do some more playing around with adjustments this weekend. I know that mine will be somewhat stiff, so we'll see. My power is nuts with the Nubcake tune, and have to turn off the ESP under hard throttle in lower gears as it just cuts power if active.

Enjoy some drive time after all of the hard work!

[NerdyDeeds]

I've been playing with the shifter linkage and I have it where it stays in reverse now and the shifts don't feel very notchy, but going into first and second is a bear. There's no way to shift quickly between 1 and 2 because it takes about half a second before it drops into gear. There's no way to "force" it, just need to hold it and wait. Is this something with the updated 1-2 shift collar? The odd thing to me is that while it's parked with the engine off it will be difficult to shift into 2nd, but then if I go to neutral and back into 2nd it engages fine. I can do that multiple times, but if I release and re-engage the clutch it resets and slows the shift into 2nd.

[IchBautAuto]

May not be the only reason but it still smacks of adjustment issues. There are a variety of linkage sets for the 01E, are you confident that your whole setup from shifter to gearbox is homogeneous. I mentioned in another post that my setup with short shifter doesn't exhibit any of the issues mentioned here. I have a spare 01E with everything JHM offers installed in and out and the PO (who totalled his car) was able to set the quickest 0-100 times recorded for a tte550 equipped car, so shift quality cannot have been an issue either.

Over time people have mentioned issues with the plastic vs metal slave cylinders, deteriorating hydraulic hose, gearbox spacer issues and difficulty in adapting some clutch systems plus of course flywheel issues of all sorts.

[Muggy]

I was disappointed at mine...fiddled several times, now changed to the 10% reduction instead of the 35% on the JHM shifter...so much better now!

[NerdyDeeds]

A couple of things I found. First was I didn't clearance/cut off enough of the bottom of the shift linkage when putting the solid bearing in. After grinding that away I was able to get it into reverse a lot easier but was still having trouble with 1st and 2nd. I've probably adjusted it 3 dozen times and can feel when it should be good because the other gears feel awesome. I switched to the 10% since I read a few places that the 35% reduction doesn't always work right. Just by chance, at the same time the clutch decided to stop disengaging so I couldn't get any gears easily. I've been suspecting that the line may not have been bleed all the way and this pretty much confirms it. The odd thing, I think, is that the when I went to bleed it the fluid came out pretty dark grey. I'm working on flushing it out and doing a better job getting it bled, but I'm worried that there could be something wrong with the master clutch cylinder. I don't see any fluid leaking from it inside the car but I also don't know if the donor car had any problems before I took the pedals out.

[IchBautAuto]

No doubt we all have variations in our setups but I haven't ever heard of the need to grind any section of the shift linkage. I'm guessing that you are absolutely sure that your whole linkage setup is from the one variant. One of the lessons I learnt with Audi is many jobs are difficult, so not refurbishing stuff before installation has the potential to be a major PIA.

I have a number of Audi with manual gearboxes and while the standard setup can be a bit long throw and soft with the clutch, I can say they all work perfectly. Add a short shifter and a properly designed clutch and they still work perfectly. The point of the comment is that if the correct parts are used, you guys really shouldn't be having the issues with the 01E shift that you are having. It's really a reasonable setup and although there are better boxes and shifts out there, it can be made quite respectable with a short shifter and +15 clutch. All the JHM upgrade parts are supposed to be good and I have the full internal and external catalogue in my spare box but I have yet to install it so can't say for sure. The car I'm driving today has the straight from factory box with short shifter and +15 clutch and 290,000 Km up and it's just fine. All gears are available without any baulking or any of the issues that are being raised on here.

Fingers crossed that you can put your finger on the cause and get to enjoy the car.

[NerdyDeeds]

So it appears that I have a bigger problem that just getting the linkage aligned. After 400 miles or so I lost the ability to disengage the clutch. After re-bleeding the clutch, adding a bleed valve in the highest point of the system, replacing the mastery cylinder, and bringing it to a shop to have them bleed it I now have a really well bled clutch line that still doesn't allow the clutch to fully disengage from the flywheel. I pulled the slave cylinder and tested the clutch pedal and the pedal becomes rock hard when the slave cylinder is bottomed out.

I'm 95% sure that the flywheels bolts and pressure plate bolts were torqued and have red loctite on them. The loctite may have gone bad and/or I may not have torqued them.

The metal slave cylinder from USP should be a direct drop in for this conversion correct? I didn't need to do anything on the transmission side in terms of the position of the throw-out bearing?

I was thinking I could make a longer rod for the slave cylinder, but that could just be masking a problem with they pressure plate/flywheel and I will be in the same boat in a couple hundred miles again or worse screw something up. The longer rod could also prevent the clutch from fully engaging.

I'm afraid my only path now is to pull the engine/trans out of the car again and separate them to check torques and measure stack-ups. Does anyone have any better suggestions or things to check before I go down that road?

[IchBautAuto]

Before you spend some time on removing the gearbox, it is worth doing a hunt as I have a vague recollection from years ago with the B5 RS4 and 01E gearbox that there were occasions when a different pushrod was required. I think I have one in my car, the take up point is very different from others. I'll have a hunt through my stuff but you won't go wrong if you chase up that idea before ripping out the box.

[IchBautAuto]

Following on there have been a raft of issues people have encountered including not resetting self adjusting clutch, internal failure of the hydraulic flexible pipe between master and slave, throw out bearing etc etc. The adjustment on the push rod seems to only have been a few mm. Many, inc ECS back in the day provided a different pushrod with their kits.

[hahnmgh63]

Seems like something just came up if it worked for 400mi. I would double check the linkage at the Master cylinder first since that's the easiest. Then if it comes down to it you should be able to slighlty lower the engine and drop the rear of the transmission down even more to get at the slave where you could check the linkage. If it worked fine before then something came loose or popped out. I would bet on the Slave and/or linkage or the Clutch Master before I would think it was something with the clutch itself.

[Muggy]

The USP metal slave is a direct drop in...so that should work for you. As far as the throwout bearing, it does have a little notch that it sits in on the lever arm.

Here's mine installed...

https://i.ibb.co/kcq4ST3/EF21-A02-D-679-A-41-A7-B071-5586-BDCB2-ED9.jpg (https://ibb.co/zfPX4g8)

And the little tabs that line up and snap into the arm from the back side that keep it from just floating around on the shaft...

https://i.ibb.co/Hpj58m3/1063091-x800.webp (https://ibb.co/XkqcRmM)

[IchBautAuto]

Seems like something just came up if it worked for 400mi. I would double check the linkage at the Master cylinder first since that's the easiest. Then if it comes down to it you should be able to slighlty lower the engine and drop the rear of the transmission down even more to get at the slave where you could check the linkage. If it worked fine before then something came loose or popped out. I would bet on the Slave and/or linkage or the Clutch Master before I would think it was something with the clutch itself.

I'd agree with that, only the process has been muddied by the possible linkage issue so it really isn't that clear if it has ever been operating perfectly in the short time before this happened. You're no the only one to have issues as B5 RS4 and S4 owners regularly run into problems when they deviate from the OE setup and that a from the factory manual setup.

[NerdyDeeds]

Thanks everyone. So the linkage issue definitely muddied the waters. At the beginning, when I would come to a stop in gear with the clutch in I didn't feel the car trying to pull forward when I let off the brakes which is why I thought it was a linkage alignment issue and not a clutch/flywheel issue. After maybe 300 miles I could tell something wasn't right because I could feel the clutch and flywheel chattering and starting to make contact even with the clutch all the way in. It then continued to get worse until the clutch wouldn't disengage at all.

It sounds like if I added a couple mm to the slave cylinder rod it may fix the issue and I shouldn't be risking damaging anything by trying it.

I should add that I have the metal USP cylinder, their braided lines, and have put in a new master clutch cylinder so that side of things should be good, and it does feel completely solid now that the slave is out of the transmission and bottomed out.

[NerdyDeeds]

I got the slave cylinder out and added a 3mm shim between the rod and the piston. I was really trying to avoid cracking the bleeder valve in order to get it back in though and I was successful in that I got the slave cylinder back into the transmission. When I went to go press the pedal with my hand though I popped the piston out of the cylinder. Now I definitely have to pull the engine and trans out to separate them and clean everything up. Damn.

[Muggy]

Sorry to hear this...frustrating for sure. Definitely one of my fears as well to do a re-pull after getting all buttoned up thinking that the hard part was over.

[hahnmgh63]

You should be able to just lower the engine a little and tilt it down at the back and pull the transmission separately, much more room with the manual. Sorry to hear about it, but at least you'll be able to double check everything at the back.

[SteveKen]

I've done this before, but only with the engine and transmission already out. I got the piston a little.crooked when retracting it and it popped back and broke the ring land that holds the piston in. I cheat and bleed the clutch slave using a clamp but it has to be pushed in straight and not allowed to pop back.

I think.your initial issue is that you have a bad clutch master cylinder.

[NerdyDeeds]

Turns out the torque spec on the pressure bolts wasn't enough to fully seat them so the pressure plate wasn't completely tightened down.:doh: Oh well, live and learn.

I don't see how it would be possible to remove the trans without pulling the engine. I had to take the pass side turbo off to get to some of the upper bolts on the bell housing. Has anyone actually been able to do that?

Anyways, I got the engine back in and running, but it doesn't want to rev past 3000 rpm. The intake box is seated well and I believe all the sensors are hooked up as far as I can tell. The only faults that are showing for the engine module are the downstream o2 sensors because they're not there. The engine was working well with the swap before I pulled it. Could some of the soft coding get changed? Any other ideas?

[nubcake]

Sounds like a crankshaft position sensor issue.

[hahnmgh63]

Sounds like a crankshaft position sensor issue.

This almost for sure. Especially since you had just pulled it apart. Did you pull and re-install the sensor or leave it in the whole time? Easy enough to pull and take a look at it.

[NerdyDeeds]

I left the sensor in the bell housing the whole time. I just checked and it is connected so I'm not convinced about that. Is there a block I can monitor to see if it is OK or not?


Going through the coding in VCDS:
17-Instruments -> Adaptation -> Ch 60 is set to 1025 (+0001 Engine & +1024 Instrument Cluster)
01-Engine -> Coding -> set to 0006752 but I think it should be 006712. I get an Out of Range error when I try that.
03-ABS Brakes -> Login: 07197 (6mt code doesn't work)-> Coding is set to 06697 but should be 06695. I cannot get this to change, probably because I can't clear the Missing Message from TCU error because. Guessing I can't clear this until I can get the Engine coding changed?

I have the TCU removed fyiy.

[hahnmgh63]

I'd have to hook it up to mine to see if there is a measuring block but I would assume there is. I would actually removed it and see if it was damaged during the install. The Flywheel should have protected it but you may want to check it anyway.

[nubcake]

There are little to none "idiot checks" with the CPS. It can behave like you're describing when the sensor is giving erratic readings.
Coding has nothing to do with it (nor you can really change it anyway).

If you're inclined to test the sensor without taking it out - either scope the output, or get some high-frequency logger (me7logger works) & log engine RPM (nmot_w).

[hahnmgh63]

Also, since you did a manual conversion, Are you using a CPS from a 2.7t or are you using the OEM RS6 one with a bigger spacer? There is a spec for clearance but I know it will still work with a much larger gap than spec. Audi makes different thickness spacers:

078906435
distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1 ARE,BES
(15) distance piece, impulse sender, for this use: 10,5MM, 059 906 435 A, 078 906 435 manual gearbox+, diesel eng.
(15) 059906435A
distance piece, impulse sender 6,5MM 1
(15) 078906435
distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1
(15) 059906435
distance piece, impulse sender 10,5MM 1 manual gearbox+, diesel eng.
(15) 078906435
distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1 automatic+, diesel eng.

Found the Ohm spec was 730-1000 at 20'C measured between pins 1 & 3. Sensor gap 1mm +/- 0.4mm

[NerdyDeeds]

Thanks guys. I'll log it and check resistance tonight.

I used the 2.7t sensor and I'm ordering a replacement 06A906433C since it is likely it got damaged.

[NerdyDeeds]

Alright, I got the sensor replaced and still don't have any power past 1/4 throttle. Note for future reference, I pulled the axle and heat shield from the transmission, then with the aid of a scope I was able to get just a standard socket wrench with a 10mm on the bolt. Getting back in was trickier, but the scope made it 1000x easier.

So the sensor *should* be working OK and I'm still not getting power. What's going on? I remembered when I first got the swap running it ran like s#!t so maybe it's just a matter of the ECU needing to learn the bigger injectors. Logging was showing O2 sensor voltages of .88 so I'm getting too much fuel, which was backed up by the smell of the exhaust. I decided now is the time to start modifying the tune. Running the Bosch 0280158123 injectors I reduced KRKTE to .05334 and multiplied the LAMFA table by (Stock injector flow/New injector flow) or 0.56497. I should mention that I was only changing one variable at a time while doing this. These changes didn't seem to make any difference, so I'm pretty much at a loss now. I've linked my latest log below. Suggestions welcome!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gptp5n_zx1ND0zPApcoN-nLO7hzVg-7o/view?usp=sharing

[nubcake]

You didn't mention you were messing with the tune.
Revert LAMFA. Stop doing what you don't really understand.

[nubcake]

Also, you have A LOT of vacuum in the charge pipe (!!!) under WOT.
Forgot rags in the intake piping or something?

[NerdyDeeds]

First thing I did was only KRKTE, with no affect on drivability and O2 sensor voltages remained high.

It's possible there's rags. I'll scope it to be sure. This whole thing feels like it's something dumb like that.

[NerdyDeeds]

Thank you so much Nubcake. It was a f'n used rag that fell into the pass side charge pipe.