Group buy interest for Manual Specific or Auto all Aluminum Radiator. Wizard Cooling

[hahnmgh63]

Figured I would separate this thread. So far Muggy and I are both in for Manual Radiators. The manual Radiator will be the same size as the Auto Radiator so the ATF cooling portion of the circuit will be all used for engine cooling to increase capacity. Being that they are all Aluminum they the Auto radiator should also be a nice improvement over OEM and no plastic side tanks to leak. I actually don't need one now but I know how much the OEM radiators cost so I'm stockpiling it away. This post is for interest to get some rough numbers and I'll see what his price(s) will be. On their website you will see their BMW & Mercedes radiators go for $500~$600 so hoping for 10%~20% depending on group numbers. OEM radiator prices out around $1242.00+ 4B3121251F. If you haven't already check out the other thread here from Performify titled "What's cooler than being cool?" Wizard Cooling website: https://wizardcooling.com/

[P1054]

If that price range ends up accurate, then I'd be interested in a manual specific one.

[Muggy]

I'm very excited about this and thanks for organizing! I know how much better my Callaway Rabbit was with just an inexpensive Chinese full aluminum radiator over the stock one...night and day...and I expect nothing less from this for the RS6.

Next question is ETA thoughts, if any yet? As most of you know, I'm in the middle of a 6 speed conversion with the front end off...would be nice to fit before that goes back on. Most likely still many weeks away from this though, so no immediate rush. Probably still 3-4 weeks to get my trans parts, then work on the conversion stuff and motor re-install. That and working 6 days a week, you get my point.

[CornersWell]

Sent an email.

CW

[lswing]

I'm in, thanks!

Wasn't this being organized by the guy who just got one put in his car?

[Muggy]

I'm in, thanks!

Wasn't this being organized by the guy who just got one put in his car?

Pretty sure that hahnmgh63 took the reigns on setting this up...looking forward to hearing more on delivery time (and price, but I'm in either way!).

[lswing]

Pretty sure that hahnmgh63 took the reigns on setting this up...looking forward to hearing more on delivery time (and price, but I'm in either way!).

Sounds good, just wanted to check as the other guy was rounding up a good amount of folks from some FB groups, the more the better I figure to make it happen and reduce the price.

[boca rat]

I'd be in for a manual one. Thx

[hahnmgh63]

lswing, just so we can get more numbers if possible can you point me to the facebook link you're talking about? I'm on the RS6 facebook page, not sure if it was created by you or Gary but I don't see any posts on there. Mark

[hahnmgh63]

Got this back from Wizard Cooling:
"Mark,
The automatic radiators would have a 10" center to center transmission cooler in them with 1/4" NPT fittings...meaning there will be some fab work required.
I would make sure the automatic guys understand that fully before committing to anything."
That may be some of the Modificatioons Performify was talking about, the oil cooler inlet/outlet connections for the ATF. That would affect you Cornerswell & Lswing. Can ask Performify what he used for adapters or where he got them from? Mark

[lswing]

Got this back from Wizard Cooling:
"Mark,
The automatic radiators would have a 10" center to center transmission cooler in them with 1/4" NPT fittings...meaning there will be some fab work required.
I would make sure the automatic guys understand that fully before committing to anything."
That may be some of the Modificatioons Performify was talking about, the oil cooler inlet/outlet connections for the ATF. That would affect you Cornerswell & Lswing. Can ask Performify what he used for adapters or where he got them from? Mark

Mark,

Here's the info to the FB site and post, by George V, March 24th 2020. It's a bit of a scroll but all the comments and interested parties are there.

Group is Audi RS6 Builds and Performance, lots of good info and not just people posting pics of the new cars.

Hmmm, if he's not going to make Automatic specific radiators I might be out, didn't realize that. I would assume they could do the fab work in house to make them ready for an automatic before shipping out if interested in making the sales.

[eurovintage]

Any estimate on weight savings versus stock radiator ?
I have auto tranny, but we added a separate oil cooler for the transmission, and are using the stock shared cooler for engine oil only now.
Which alum rad. version would I need ?
Thanks,
Ivan

[lswing]

Maybe I read it wrong before, but Wizard already has made the auto spec radiator. So I'm in 100% if we can get a few people, Mark not sure if you want to organize the manual and auto group buy, or maybe I could try and cover the auto side of things?

https://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/34055-What-s-cooler-than-being-cool

[hahnmgh63]

lswing, I'm trying to see if we can group both into one buy to get our total numbers up. I heard through the Grapevine that a certain individual was charge almost $1000 for his radiator. Maybe because at that time it was a one-off? Like I said above, there Merc & BMW radiators seem to be going in the $400~$600 range?
Eurovintage, I don't think there is going to be any weight savings. Your stock radiator has an Aluminum core but has plastic crimped on side tanks. These will most likely weight slightly more but have more cooling capacity. When you added the separate cooler for the transmission did you pipe it in along the cooling lines to the radiator or did you bypass the radiator's ATF cooling circuit?

[eurovintage]

We bypassed the ATF fluid completely using the new cooler.
The engine oil is running through the original cooler inf full.
Cheers,
Ivan

[lswing]

lswing, I'm trying to see if we can group both into one buy to get our total numbers up. I heard through the Grapevine that a certain individual was charge almost $1000 for his radiator. Maybe because at that time it was a one-off? Like I said above, there Merc & BMW radiators seem to be going in the $400~$600 range?
Eurovintage, I don't think there is going to be any weight savings. Your stock radiator has an Aluminum core but has plastic crimped on side tanks. These will most likely weight slightly more but have more cooling capacity. When you added the separate cooler for the transmission did you pipe it in along the cooling lines to the radiator or did you bypass the radiator's ATF cooling circuit?

Sounds good, thanks for going over all this. Cost is just fine as OEM is now going for around $1,250-1,500. My concern is it seems like the first guy that got one had to weld on his own fittings, as in the radiators are not truly complete, but I may be wrong. I'd be happy to pay $750-1k for a complete radiator ready to plug and play.

[Muggy]

Bringing this back up....I'd like to get rolling on this...how's the GB looking? I've had enough hang ups with parts, so I'd prefer to have the radiator on deck when the time comes...

[hahnmgh63]

I'll hit Wizard up again. He doesn't seem to be good about replying.

[YONTB]

I’ll be in for it mines still auto so lmk if I’m still good

[lswing]

Still in if we can get a plug and play radiator for the auto config...thanks!

[pwm]

I'm in for an automatic version, but same as lswing, only if it is plug and play.

There's got to be a price that makes it worth it for them to assemble install parts kit and not require the consumer to need welding done.

-bill

[hahnmgh63]

I'm gonna try and call the guy at Wizard and/or maybe track down another place as I've E-mailed him multiple times but he has not replied? I personally would like a spare as I now an 18yr old radiators days are numberred. An all Aluminum would most likely be a life of the car radiator than a composite plastic/Aluminum OEM one.

[Muggy]

Thanks for checking...I'd buy today if available!

[lswing]

Yep, I'd be in also for auto specific with all connections, same as OEM but all aluminum. Around $1k would be great.

[kruat]

Well I might have just blown my OEM radiator. (Hoping it's just the upper hose that popped off, as unlikely as that is),

So...is this going on? I'd be in for a auto version as long as it is plug and play.

[Muggy]

And I'm ready for a manual version...:stick:

[boca rat]

Same here


And I'm ready for a manual version...:stick:

[mi021le]

Yes interested in manual version and

[Muggy]

Bringing this back up....I have a little weeping on my OEM...any thoughts on where this left off for a manual version? I'd think that this one would be easier than the auto without the additional internal trans cooler, but I'm not the fabricator either. Happy to pay $1k for a custom unit if needed, but just need someone to commit to actually making them...

Looks like the biggest issue on the non RS6 v8 radiator is the lack of an outlet for the after run pump, but not sure about mounting points, hose compatibility, etc...any thoughts?

[IchBautAuto]

Bringing this back up....I have a little weeping on my OEM...any thoughts on where this left off for a manual version? I'd think that this one would be easier than the auto without the additional internal trans cooler, but I'm not the fabricator either. Happy to pay $1k for a custom unit if needed, but just need someone to commit to actually making them...

Looks like the biggest issue on the non RS6 v8 radiator is the lack of an outlet for the after run pump, but not sure about mounting points, hose compatibility, etc...any thoughts?

I use a CSF 7071 in the RS4. Why not contact CSFrace for a radiator. The RS4 OEM radiator uses an Auto system with the (01E manual) gearbox oil passing through the radiator. It's as hot here as anywhere in the US and it hasn't caused me any issues plus an advantage is it helps to heat the oil as the 01E is much smoother once hot. It isn't as good if you only put up a few miles and the box isn't at full op temp.

Bonus is you only need one style radiator for both transmissions (if you have the oil pump in your gearbox)

[hahnmgh63]

I did E-mail CSF and they quoted me a minimum purchase of 50 units. If I had money to put them aside then I'd stock them for future purchases but it's beyond my scope. Plus 1/2 or more wanted Manual and the other half wanted for an Auto. Sure you can use a Auto radiator for manual, which most of us with the 6spd conversion are but if you have a manual why not get more cooling capacity with the dedicated manual radiator, and probably slightly cheaper.
BTW, the core on the B5 S4 radiator is 1.7" total lenght and and only about 1/4" shorter in height, the thickness of both are pretty much identical.

[IchBautAuto]

More's the pity the connections and locations are totally incompatible. The price is certainly right. I thought they did custom radiators so they would be one off. Can't say I'm convinced extra cooling is needed for a manual. Sort of thing you call for and then run around with the thermostat at 50% open. Real world outcomes is the manual gearbox seems to operate better with the oil at around 90C.

[hahnmgh63]

A lot of us out there have removed the weight and complexity of the Hot Weater package extra radiators and lines so a little extra cooling insurance would be great if available. All N. America cars got the Hot Weather package and cars in the Mid east but for most of the world it was an option and they just got the central main radiator.

[IchBautAuto]

Happy to say we aren't rest of the world then as we have the hot weather package, plus all the euro options the US seemed to have missed out on as standard. Many of you guys list your RS6 as a weekend hobby car so from my perspective a slick shifting gearbox came out ahead of the race hot engine temps. I have found engine oil temps more of an issue than coolant under some load. We go from snow to the 40's (centigrade) in my area so we need to cater to both ends of the spectrum.

[hahnmgh63]

In my case, when converting to the manual I removed the RS6 shared Engine Oil/Transmission oil front Air to Oil cooler and swapped in a BMW 3 series engine oil cooler that has a little larger capacity than the engine oil portion of the stock front cooler, so I am definitely gettting more engine oil cooling capacity than stock.

[IchBautAuto]

Good solution. I haven't yet made an improvement to my oil cooling and had been tossing up using one of the Serck range but that may be a good alternative. Dumping the AC or getting rid of the plethora of stacked cooling matrix up front would do wonders.

[hahnmgh63]

I can't take credit for the Oil cooler, got that idea from Steve Ken, found a used BMW 325i oil cooler on Ebay, flushed it when I got it and it is about the same width as the stock cooler and close to the size of the combined stock Tranny/Engine cooler but all for the engine now :)

[CornersWell]

I'm still in, FYI.

CW

[Kgnast]

Im in for Auto for the time being, will need to wait to next year for the manual swap. Auto radiator for me. I have a pin hole and the car has that coolant smell. It's also going in for some much needed maintenance in which everything is coming off the front of the motor, it would be a good to to just swap it when the other one comes out anyway. So count me in for an Auto Rad.

[lswing]

Im in for Auto for the time being, will need to wait to next year for the manual swap. Auto radiator for me. I have a pin hole and the car has that coolant smell. It's also going in for some much needed maintenance in which everything is coming off the front of the motor, it would be a good to to just swap it when the other one comes out anyway. So count me in for an Auto Rad.

Same here, would buy a new custom auto radiator for $1k or so no problem. I've got a small crack on one of the plastic connecting parts, only leaks when below freezing thankfully, and has sort of gummed itself up for now.

You have a good shop you use in Brooklyn, or did you run one I thought? Might be moving there this summer and bringing RS6 in tow eventually, need to find car storage...

[papadoc]

Well I had a small leak in my radiator and you all probably know that one can no longer be found via Audi or aftermarket. Found one in Calgary with fellow RS6.com member who parted out a car. When adding up the costs since I don't wrench myself, I decided to give LiquiMoly Radiator Stop Leak a try. Not one drop has leaked since then. Really surprised how well the stuff worked, but if you are in the same boat I was in, consider giving it a try before sinking $$ into a new radiator.

[Muggy]

Well I had a small leak in my radiator and you all probably know that one can no longer be found via Audi or aftermarket. Found one in Calgary with fellow RS6.com member who parted out a car. When adding up the costs since I don't wrench myself, I decided to give LiquiMoly Radiator Stop Leak a try. Not one drop has leaked since then. Really surprised how well the stuff worked, but if you are in the same boat I was in, consider giving it a try before sinking $$ into a new radiator.

Glad to hear that this actually worked...LiquiMoly seems like a very solid product line as well. I have a small weep at the seal between my end tank and aluminum that just leaves a few drops of antifreeze hanging on the lower IC pipe after driving...I may go ahead and give this stuff a shot after watching the vid. Certainly not like the old "Barr's Leak" stuff that was like dumping chili in your radiator, but that was back in the 80's and american iron, it did work on those cars!

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to pay for an OEM unit or custom aluminum unit if either were available...:rolleyes:

[nubcake]

Slightly off topic, but:
I just had aftermarket S6 radiator fitted. Nissens brand, part number 60424, super cheap (like $200). VAG OEM part number 4B3121251D.
It's a direct drop-in replacement to the early RS6 one (if both tanks are plastic). With one important caveat: S6 is approx 1cm thinner, so less dissipation capacity. Use it cautiously in hotter environments.

If you have one metal tank in your original radiator, S6 is NOT a direct fit. You will need to redo the aftercooling path.

Just throwing this out here for everybody to see.

[Muggy]

Slightly off topic, but:
I just had aftermarket S6 radiator fitted. Nissens brand, part number 60424, super cheap (like $200). VAG OEM part number 4B3121251D.
It's a direct drop-in replacement to the early RS6 one (if both tanks are plastic). With one important caveat: S6 is approx 1cm thinner, so less dissipation capacity. Use it cautiously in hotter environments.

If you have one metal tank in your original radiator, S6 is NOT a direct fit. You will need to redo the aftercooling path.

Just throwing this out here for everybody to see.

Good to know...still trying to figure mine out and hoping that it's actually just the o-ring leaking on the bottom hose. Remembering now that I bought new ones, but were the wrong size when I was getting everything back together...in the weekend crunch, this would have stopped my progress, and just so anxious after 18 months to get mine running, that I used the original o-rings. Going to put mine in service position this weekend so I can actually SEE where it's leaking from.

Anyone know what the o-ring size or part number is on these???

Mine has the aftercooling, so concerned about that if I have to re-arrange plumbing on that if needed...may be time to study cooling paths...

[eurovintage]

Hi Nubcake,
nice to hear.
Having radiator issues, but part # with D is missing the conncetion (barblet) at lower transmission .
At least the one we got with part ....D. Does the Nissens part have this ?
Do YOU have pictures ?
Cheers,
Ivan

[nubcake]

Hi Ivan.

That's the difference between early and late styles.
Early style has aftercooling plumbed away from rad.
Later style has aftercooling plumbed via the electrically controlled "flow reversal" valve located under the driver's side frame rail.
As such, it has metal driver's side radiator tank with an extra fitting for that. I believe you're talking about that.

[eurovintage]

Yes indeed,
Will use sealer for now, as leak was minor.
Thanks
Ivan

[hahnmgh63]

FYI for those looking into it, I believe N.America only received the later style Radiators. At least looking through the parts catalogs and the 5 or 6 RS6's I've worked on have all had the later style to of course include the Aux Radiators (Hot Wx package) that all U.S spec (Canada?) got.

[SteveKen]

FYI for those looking into it, I believe N.America only received the later style Radiators. At least looking through the parts catalogs and the 5 or 6 RS6's I've worked on have all had the later style to of course include the Aux Radiators (Hot Wx package) that all U.S spec (Canada?) got.


I think the rad on all the NA cars supports the feed to the afterrun pump.

Over the weekend, I just disabled the aux rads on my latest purchase and they are independent of the radiator.

My last project ran just the C5 S6 or A6 4.2 radiator which is the same P/N as certain spec'd RS6 that are non hot weather which do not run the afterrun pump. This also requires a few different components that change the flow of the coolant. Actually I think the coolant moves in the opposite direction through the turbos sans the afterrun pump.

[nubcake]

Steve, correction: there actually is an afterrun pump in both configurations. Just two different flow directions. "Early style" just ties into the "normal water feed", thus doesn't really aftercool much. The "later" (or hot weather?) style actually reverses the whole coolant flow after shutoff.

Pic shows the early style aftercooling configuration:
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19636&stc=1

[SteveKen]

Ah yes. Thanks for this, as I was going off of some old memories in my head.


Steve, correction: there actually is an afterrun pump in both configurations. Just two different flow directions. "Early style" just ties into the "normal water feed", thus doesn't really aftercool much. The "later" (or hot weather?) style actually reverses the whole coolant flow after shutoff.

Pic shows the early style aftercooling configuration:
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19636&stc=1