OMG, another 6MT conversion thread.

[redwoodkiwi]

Long time lurker - and, after a few false starts, now an actual member (thank you Erik for letting me through the net).

I recently added a Daytona RS6 C5 to the fleet. Beautifully maintained by the previous owner - but he decided he wanted out when he got the quote to repair the failing transmission. So, because I don’t have enough projects (sarcasm), I acquired the beast thinking that it would be an ideal candidate for a 6MT conversion.

These pics taken in August – at time of acquisition.

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Over the last couple of months, it has been sitting in the garage while I research, collect the necessary parts, and find the confidence to begin the task.

Full disclosure: I barely know what I am doing. Despite owning and driving Audi’s for the last 20 years, I have spent little time beneath the hood. That said, during the last year, I have been learning my way around the 2.7T C5 platform (as I have a C5 A6 build in Lemons race-spec, and an Allroad daily beater) – but I don’t know the RS6 at all.

It looks like several members have already accomplished the task and I have learned a lot, and found inspiration, from those that have documented their experience in the conversion. I plan on doing the same, as I fully expect to encounter the need for help and guidance.

I think I have most of the parts needed, save a few seals, etc. I am using the adapter kit from Steve Kendrish, the transmission (01E and various other driveline bits’n’bobs) I acquired from audis4parts, and I decided upon the Ringer Racing stage 4 clutch.

I started the process in earnest the weekend before last. Got the motor and trans out. Took me the best part of two days working alone, and I realize now that I should have just brought it out on the subframe. But I didn’t.

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No turning back now.

[jolio1994]

Woot! Get er done man!!

[DHall1]

C5 City FTW!!!

way to hang in there.

[redwoodkiwi]

@jolio1994, your posted experience was a major inspiration for taking on this project myself. Cheers mate!

Question for you, and for others with conversion experience, what gotcha’s, tricks, tips, etc, can you share. I am still a little daunted by the entire procedure and I’d rather just do the motor-out-in thing just once.

Downpipes – leave as stock? Or what?

I do plan on doing a full timing belt job (car has 106k mi – last timing job was at 80k mi), valve cover gaskets, cam seals, etc. Am also considering replacing the tensioner guides while I’m in there (any one got experience with those guide found on eBay/AMZN guides? – they are cheap, but they are only plastic/resin after all). The oil cooler pipe issue has, apparently, already been dealt with (according to service records and receipts).

[redwoodkiwi]

A little more progress made yesterday:

Separated the trans from the block. A non-trivial process as the passenger side turbo had to come off, which meant a lot of faff had to be disconnected and/or removed along with it – and two exhaust/turbo flange studs refused to let go which meant having to resort to cutting/grinding them off. Nothing is ever simple.

Things may have gone a little smoother if I’d been able to get the exhaust manifold off. But I got completely stumped with removing the two fasteners that are deeply recessed into the manifold. What are they? They are not 10mm like all the others. They feel like they may be 12mm – as a 12mm socket begins to bite – but even my thinnest wall 12mm socket will not get over the fastener deep enough to apply leverage. I spent waaay too much time trying to figure it out. I remain baffled, and in the meantime the manifold stays on. Anyone?

This trans is a hugely biggly - heavy AF too. The 01E looks anorexic next to it.

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Then, onto the next challenge: removing the flexplate.

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Yup – sheared my m10. Seems like this is common occurrence for those that travel this road. So, outside she goes in prep for some cutting/grinding action.

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Used a bolt extractor on what remained.

Then, removing the pilot bearing. I used the Kendrish method of tapping then winding in a bolt to push it it out. First had to drill it out a little to accept a tap.
Drill bit used: 21/32
Tap bit used: 3/4 10nc

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Q: I had purchased a rear crank seal to replace while in here - but the existing one shows no sign of weeping, so I'm inclined to sleeping dogs lie. Thoughts?

[GreggPDX]

One tip I would share is to take a lot of pictures while you are tearing things down. I took tons, and found them useful many times. Regarding the tensioner pads, I used the Blauparts kit and it seemed to work well. I also replaced all the cam-cap bolts when I did mine, since technically they are supposed to single-use.

Another tip, I used 1stvwparts.com for a lot of the the various small parts (bolts, gaskets, seals, etc...). If you can get a part number for it, they usually have it, and their prices were consistently as good or better than most places. (For example, the cam-cap bolts are much cheaper here, and you need 52 of them!) They are up in Washington, so shipping is usually quick. I also compiled a list of part numbers, so let me know if you are looking for anything specific.

Will emissions testing be an issue? Do you have to pass a visual test? If not, I'd suggest removing the secondary air system. It free's up a ton of space in the crowded space behind the motor. Also, a good tuner (aka Nubcake) can tune it out while still showing it functional for an OBD test. I have to do the OBD test up in Oregon, and mine has passed several times now. I also gutted the pre-cats and used O2 "cheaters" to keep the rear O2 sensors working. This probably would not pass a visual test, however.

Have you tried to remove the flex plate yet? The bolts are usually a total bitch. You're welcome to try and loosen them with tools if you want, but most of us ended up grinding the heads off (which is actually not a big deal, since you are grinding on a part you're going to toss anyway.)

The SteveKen kit is really good, but I found a couple of the bellhousing bolts were shorter than I liked, so I ended up getting longer versions. You can check yourself and make the call, it's probably fine either way. Also, I messed around with oil line routing quite a bit. One issue you may have read about is starter heat-soak. I believe this is caused by the metal oil line being wedged between the exhaust manifold and starter solenoid, causing the solenoid to become a heat sink. I worked very hard to make sure there was a distinct air gap between the manifold and oil lines. I also wrapped the the starter in a heat blanket. Nothing fancy, just a piece of heat-shield fabric secured with a stainless zip-tie. I also ended up grinding down one of the unused metal "bosses" on the passenger turbo compressor housing. It was close to pinching the oil feed line, so grinding it down freed up space for the line to fit better. When you are fitting this stuff back together, you'll see what I mean. I probably spent more time getting the oil line where I wanted it, than any other single thing. Some people seem to have no issues, but not me!

Another thing while I'm brain-dumping, do you have the Elsa-Win software (aka factory service manuals)? It was invaluable during the whole process, I highly recommend tracking it down. There are copies floating around if you search.

Do you have a small torque wrench that measures inch-pounds? I picked one up for the cam-cap bolts and timing tensioner adjustment.

That's enough for now, good luck and ask questions, we are here to help!

[GreggPDX]

I see you figured out the flex plate, good job!

Regarding the exhaust manifold, you need to find a really thin-wall socket. I found a 1/4' drive, six point that worked. Once you get them out, I highly recommend replacing with new ones. The updated version that Audi sells is a much better design.

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[GreggPDX]

Regarding the rear main, I left mine. It looked good and I was concerned that replacing it could just make things worse.

[redwoodkiwi]

Thanks for the braindump @GreggPDX - all good advice. Thanks for validating my inclination on the rear seal - that's exactly my worry (that messing with it might induce a problem).

re: SAI and emissions. I'm in CA, and emissions are pretty strictly monitored here. Checking via OBD is the method, and I expect that visual checking is a requirement of the state too. That said, my observations of the emission techs actually performing the visual is hit-and-miss. I suspect that if you drive up with a car that looks modified (think slammed civic with 3inch tips) then you are more than likely going to be subjected to a thorough visual. If, on the other hand, you drive up in a well groomed executive sedan, then you might just get a cursory look over. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking, but I have had recent experiences showing up in 2.7T's with cheaters on the rear 02's (to mask failing cat efficiency codes) and passed with no issues.

I am inclined to remove the SAI plumbing to recover the space (as you suggest) - but I am still not decided on what to do with the downpipes/exhaust. One thought is to put away the stock downpipes (hanging on to them in case I need to restore stock hardware for emission compliance at a later date) and to use some thing like these (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-S4-4-2L-V8-RS6-4-2L-DOWNPIPES-WITH-CAT-Ko4-028-Ko4-029-Audi-Upgrade/123525995704?fits=Model%3ARS6&hash=item1cc2b91cb8:g:ZHYAAOSwcnJcBp5L) in their place - while retaining stock exhaust downstream.

re: recessed manifold fasteners: So, they are 12mm? And you managed to find a thin-wall socket to fit? I just had two thin-wall alternatives arrive today from AMZN - and neither fit. What brand do you have?

And, no, I do not have the Elsa-win manuals. Off searching now.

BTW: Stephen Kendrish introduced me to a tuner - Alex - of whom, I began an email dialogue with a couple of months back (and with me promising to be back in touch when I got nearer to completing the conversion). Wondering if nubcake and Alex are one and the same?

[GreggPDX]

The manifold socket is 12mm, and I'm not sure the brand. They are only marked 'Taiwan" and I'm sure it came form some cheap set I acquired over the years. I think being 1/4" drive and light duty is the reason it's so thin. You might try putting one of your sockets on a drill or impact and sanding/grinding the outside diameter down a bit to get it to fit. If nothing else, I'd be happy to ship mine down.

I'm not familiar with those downpipes, it would be interesting to see how they fit. The price is definitely good! The driver's side upper O2 sensor and shift linkage are very cozy with the stock pipes, so hard to say if the aftermarket pipes would be better or worse. I kept the stock pipes and gutted the pre-cats, which is generally accepted to be good enough for stock turbos. Gutting the pre-cats necessitates the O2 cheaters, and the placement of the sensors on those ebay pipes looks like they need the cheaters as well.

And Yes, Alex is the right tuner, you are in good hands with him.

[bethridg]

OG 6-speed swappers coming out of the wood work to share the knowledge :)


GreggPDX covered most everything.

Manifold: I'm pretty sure the manifold nuts should be hex key centered. I don't remember the exact size but used an extra long hex key socket to remove. You could probably get away with a regular hex key wrench, a pair of vise grips or box wrench for leverage.

RMS: I replaced it on my original motor but found it leaking when swapping in BCY #2. I elected not to do it the second go round as there were no signs the factory seal failed. YMMV.

Downpipes: The DPs you linked look to be exactly what I received from SRM. They are Chinese but do the job. The threads on the rear O2 bungs tore out when I went to remove them only after 15k miles (even though I used a anti-seize). The sensors had been coded out anyway so I just ground down the threads on the included plugs and welded them on.


Memories.

[hahnmgh63]

Yes to Nubcake and Alex being the same. He is great. I think with CA emissions it will have a hard time passing with the SAI system removed. Nubcake can code the SAI system out, he did on mine but not sure if the readiness tests show, ask him. I had Miltek Catless downpipes and they don't work with the stock transmission mounts (really only the left side). I bought the Steel mounts from AudS4parts.com and they work fine, except once again on the Miltek's, I had to have the front O2 sensor bung moved as it interfered with the manual shift linkage.

[redwoodkiwi]

Excellent. I'm really appreciating and enjoying the advice from all. Respect!

You lads are getting me a little worried about the emission situation though. I will send Nubcake a note and get his POV on the SAi delete. Depending upon the outcome of that conversation will determine whether or not I'll get those downpipes.

re: Manifold fasteners. They are definitely not hex keyed. That would be smart and make things so much easier for sure. I wonder if that is what @GreggPDX is referring to when he mentions the newer design (above)?

re: RMS. Ok, that's 2 for not. So, not doing it.

[bethridg]

re: Manifold fasteners. They are definitely not hex keyed. That would be smart and make things so much easier for sure. I wonder if that is what @GreggPDX is referring to when he mentions the newer design (above)?

I just pulled these fasteners off my spare block. 7mm hex socket. If you have something different it's something I haven't come across one these motors and I'm really curious.

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Edit: I soaked the set that went on BCY #2 in vinegar for a few days. Shaking occasionally. Really cleaned up the built up corrosion.

[GreggPDX]

Yeah the old style has both inner and outer hex. @redwoodkiwi, it's possible that the inner hex is stripped out on yours.

The new style is much longer and actually sticks out beyond the manifold, so it's a lot easier to get wrench on it:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/locking-nut-priced-each/077253158a/

[GreggPDX]

Regarding the SAI, nubcake can definitely code around it to make it pass the readiness test, even with all the hardware removed. We did that on my car. The visual test is the real problem. Removing and replacing the pump is easy, so it would certainly be possible to temporarily reinstall it for a visual test. The plumbing behind the heads is much harder to remove/replace with the engine installed, so if the visual test was thorough enough to check that, it would be a problem.

If you choose to leave the system intact, then there is no point in coding it out, it doesn't do anything that affects performance.

[redwoodkiwi]

@bethridg @GreggPDX - You are both, indeed, correct. The manifold recessed fasteners are 7mm hex. However, on the passenger manifold I cannot get purchase - a 7mm hex key just spins in both of the recessed fasteners. Someone has been here before me and stripped them both good (odd, because the manifolds do not look like they have ever been off and no service record suggest that they have). I get purchase just fine on the drivers side. This is a problem, as a need the manifold off. This afternoon I installed the flywheel, pressure plate and clutch and then moved on to the starter. The starter will not come close to mating because of a bracket that secures a coolant and oil return line occupies the same space that the starter solenoid wants to have. To modify necessitates the removal of the manifold. Bah. This weekend I'll get to grinding down a 12mm socket in an attempt to get it on the outer hex as per @GreggPDX's suggestion.

[redwoodkiwi]

After getting a little discouraged with the starter situation, I moved on to something that could give some immediate gratification...

Got this from JHM - a 4:1 ratio center differential.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19015&stc=1


And, into the ass-end of the 01E she goes..

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19016&stc=1

[jolio1994]

Redwoodkiwi, you'll come across a lot of moments that seem discouraging, I'll tell you right now... keep pushing through it man. Theres a workaround for everything. I'd suggest getting a good set of ez outs. The set Irwin has at Advanced is great, and they'll remove hex sockets like its nothing. It's how I removed my oil cooler/engine mount bracket as well as flywheel studs once I grounded the heads off. Keep pushing through and dont be scurd to bend that oil feed line next to the starter.

Cant wait to see this beast running. Also curious as to how that 4:1 diff is going to come into play in terms of hard driving. If you need any parts or specific bolts such as the intake manifold ones don't hesitate to reach out... I have 2 complete BCY engines in my garage! :race:

[Muggy]

Dammit....I'm not going to follow this! I've already talked myself out of this project a couple of times, but keep getting lured back in with these build threads. I have a perfectly fine '03 A6 6spd sedan sitting on the outside of my garage for the swap parts and my wife Ok'd my garage expansion plans from a single to a 28-30' wide & extra deep option...time to talk to my architect friend and builder neighbor to get this done!

My son and I have discussed parting the A6 for a fun project...seems like now is the time...

:dig:

[jolio1994]

Dammit....I'm not going to follow this! I've already talked myself out of this project a couple of times, but keep getting lured back in with these build threads. I have a perfectly fine '03 A6 6spd sedan sitting on the outside of my garage for the swap parts and my wife Ok'd my garage expansion plans from a single to a 28-30' wide & extra deep option...time to talk to my architect friend and builder neighbor to get this done!

My son and I have discussed parting the A6 for a fun project...seems like now is the time...

:dig:

We're all waiting my friend

[redwoodkiwi]

Got the passenger side manifold off! But crikey, what an ordeal.

Ground down an already-thin-wall socket, to fit into the recess, thinking that it was 12 outer hex in there.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19017&stc=1

Only to find that it is not a 12mm outer hex. It's 13mm. No way is a 13mm socket getting in there (it would have to be ground so much that the integrity of the socket would break at the slightest bit of torque).

So what's a lad to do? A 7mm hex just turns freely in the inner hex.

So, I took an 8mm hex, ground off the end-bevels (to give it a more aggressive bite). ever-so-slightly ground off .5mm off each flat side of the shank and hammered it in.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19018&stc=1

And, got the little bugger out.



So with the manifold off, I could then get to repositioning the turbo oil line so that it would not interfere with the starter.

Q: The image below shows how I have bent the bracket 90 degrees moving the oil line position from where it had been (shown by yellow circle) to its new position (red circle). By doing so, I have moved it very close to the manifold - it's hard to see, but there is about a 1 to 2mm gap between the line and the manifold. Could this become an issue? (I'm worried about heat exchange from the manifold). Before moving/bending the oil line it was running with about 5mm clearance.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19019&stc=1


And then as it comes around the front, it is just kisses the manifold (whereas, before bending, it had about 3mm clearance).

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19020&stc=1

I do like getting it well away from the starter solenoid - but I am a little worried about heat induction from the manifold into the oil line (although, to what extent that it be greater than what it was before - I don't know). Or, am I just overthinking all of this?

[nubcake]

I do like getting it well away from the starter solenoid - but I am a little worried about heat induction from the manifold into the oil line (although, to what extent that it be greater than what it was before - I don't know). Or, am I just overthinking all of this?

I don't like it, and would prefer the tube being too close to starter, than too close to the manifold.
That being said, under normal operation it's unlikely to cause any issues:
1) The manifold outer shell has an "internal" air gap with the actual manifold.
2) The tube in question carries oil, so oil will cool any "excess" heat.

The reason I don't like it: oil coking after you shut the car off.
I don't know how big of a deal extra 2-3 mils of air gap are, but every little bit helps.
Also, using a heat-resistant blanket for starter is probably a good idea.
Shrug.

[redwoodkiwi]

Thanks @nubcake - I had a feeling there would be a general dislike for it being that close to the manifold. I spent far too long wrestling with it this afternoon, but it did pay off in yielding another couple of mm's all round.

[SteveKen]

Got the passenger side manifold off! But crikey, what an ordeal.

Ground down an already-thin-wall socket, to fit into the recess, thinking that it was 12 outer hex in there.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19017&stc=1

Only to find that it is not a 12mm outer hex. It's 13mm. No way is a 13mm socket getting in there (it would have to be ground so much that the integrity of the socket would break at the slightest bit of torque).

So what's a lad to do? A 7mm hex just turns freely in the inner hex.

So, I took an 8mm hex, ground off the end-bevels (to give it a more aggressive bite). ever-so-slightly ground off .5mm off each flat side of the shank and hammered it in.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19018&stc=1

And, got the little bugger out.



So with the manifold off, I could then get to repositioning the turbo oil line so that it would not interfere with the starter.

Q: The image below shows how I have bent the bracket 90 degrees moving the oil line position from where it had been (shown by yellow circle) to its new position (red circle). By doing so, I have moved it very close to the manifold - it's hard to see, but there is about a 1 to 2mm gap between the line and the manifold. Could this become an issue? (I'm worried about heat exchange from the manifold). Before moving/bending the oil line it was running with about 5mm clearance.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19019&stc=1


And then as it comes around the front, it is just kisses the manifold (whereas, before bending, it had about 3mm clearance).

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19020&stc=1

I do like getting it well away from the starter solenoid - but I am a little worried about heat induction from the manifold into the oil line (although, to what extent that it be greater than what it was before - I don't know). Or, am I just overthinking all of this?

I've often thought of this but have not way of proving whether the conduction causes any appreciable difference in temperature to harm anything. It's the supply line so in essence it's elevating the temp of the oil prior to it hitting the turbos.

One thing that you need to be super mindful of is not to ground out the starter voltage to this supply line. I know if 2 people that did this and the result could be very bad when it's arcs a hole in the supply line and oil spills over everything.

[redwoodkiwi]

One thing that you need to be super mindful of is not to ground out the starter voltage to this supply line. I know if 2 people that did this and the result could be very bad when it's arcs a hole in the supply line and oil spills over everything.

Yes. I'm very mindful of that. I think I may have read something you wrote (either on this forum or another) alluding to the potential for short. In this configuration above, there appears plenty of room for the live starter feed to coexist as the oil line has been elevated up and well out of the way. The downside being that it is now much closer to the manifold. @nubcake's comment re: the manifold having an outer jacket gives me some comfort.

[boca rat]

Consider heat wrapping the starter. There are threads on this, where solenoid I think overheats and car won't start for 5 hours. My first 6 speed had this issue, until we wrapped the starter.

HTH

[redwoodkiwi]

Ordered a starter blanket. Thanks for the reco @nubcake and @boca_rat

[SteveKen]

The SteveKen kit is really good, but I found a couple of the bellhousing bolts were shorter than I liked, so I ended up getting longer versions. You can check yourself and make the call, it's probably fine either way. Also, I messed around with oil line routing quite a bit. One issue you may have read about is starter heat-soak. I believe this is caused by the metal oil line being wedged between the exhaust manifold and starter solenoid, causing the solenoid to become a heat sink. I worked very hard to make sure there was a distinct air gap between the manifold and oil lines. I also wrapped the the starter in a heat blanket. Nothing fancy, just a piece of heat-shield fabric secured with a stainless zip-tie. I also ended up grinding down one of the unused metal "bosses" on the passenger turbo compressor housing. It was close to pinching the oil feed line, so grinding it down freed up space for the line to fit better. When you are fitting this stuff back together, you'll see what I mean. I probably spent more time getting the oil line where I wanted it, than any other single thing. Some people seem to have no issues, but not me!

I actually listened to your feedback and have changed out all the hardware so that none of the existing bolts are used. I just needed to personally verify whether some of the 75mm long stock bolts could be swapped safely with 80mm ones among others. All shouldered bolts and nylon lock nuts as well so no need for washers.

http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/kit/kit_hw.jpg


Ordered a starter blanket. Thanks for the reco @nubcake and @boca_rat

The heat soak issues haven't been seen lately since I switched to the MSD starter. I was really unhappy with the quality of the Tilton unit and switched it out. The original factory in Japan that produced Tilton's starters was wiped out in the tsunami and after that, there were dimensional issues as well as the hot start issues. I personally never had any issues with heat soak. Since the ground is through the nose, the mating surfaces have to be super clean and also the same goes for the strap between the block and body.

[boca rat]

Sorry all, never saw the earlier comment about heat soak....doh. One other thing. I have stage 4 clutch in mine and it slips, and seems previous owner had issues from the get go. There was mention somewhere that a clutch line was also too close to an oil line. I haven't pursued this yet though so take this with a grain of salt at this point. HTH

[hahnmgh63]

Oh no, I think I have the Tilton starter, don't know if I'm pre or post Tsunami :) I went with the cast iron slave cylinder and got a Stainless line from USP motorsports and I ran the line behind the tin heatshield that lines the inside of the transmission tunnel, you can run it from the slave at the bottom and right out the top.

[GreggPDX]

Oh no, I think I have the Tilton starter, don't know if I'm pre or post Tsunami :) I went with the cast iron slave cylinder and got a Stainless line from USP motorsports and I ran the line behind the tin heatshield that lines the inside of the transmission tunnel, you can run it from the slave at the bottom and right out the top.

Tsunami was 2011, so probably post, but FWIW, I have the Tilton and have had zero problems.

[redwoodkiwi]

Good info @SteveKen. Having the MSD starter gives me comfort. I'll still wrap it though. Might also wrap the turbo oil feed line.

Not much progress made over last couple of days - waiting for parts and other projects interfered. But today I did get to gutting the pre-cats from the stock downpipes. I had previously thought to use aftermarket downpipes, but after reading about others struggling to work with the placement of the 02 sensor bung holes (getting in the way of shifter linkage) and at the suggestion from @nubcake, I decided to stick with stock and remove the pre-cats.

A job I do not care to do ever again. What a mess, and what a fight these cats put up. Took me the best part of five hours. Wish i had welding skills.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19022&stc=1

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19023&stc=1

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19024&stc=1

I tore out the braided shield from the flexipipe on one of the downpipes while wrestling with it. Didn't realize it was happening until it was over. Not sure what do about it. Annoyed.

[SteveKen]

Good info @SteveKen. Having the MSD starter gives me comfort. I'll still wrap it though. Might also wrap the turbo oil feed line.

Not much progress made over last couple of days - waiting for parts and other projects interfered. But today I did get to gutting the pre-cats from the stock downpipes. I had previously thought to use aftermarket downpipes, but after reading about others struggling to work with the placement of the 02 sensor bung holes (getting in the way of shifter linkage) and at the suggestion from @nubcake, I decided to stick with stock and remove the pre-cats.

A job I do not care to do ever again. What a mess, and what a fight these cats put up. Took me the best part of five hours. Wish i had welding skills.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19022&stc=1

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19023&stc=1

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19024&stc=1

I tore out the braided shield from the flexipipe on one of the downpipes while wrestling with it. Didn't realize it was happening until it was over. Not sure what do about it. Annoyed.

At this point, you can get new vibrant flex joints but chances are they will not match the exact dimensions of what you have now.

I'd still recommend the XSpower ones. The left front O2 sensor bung can be bent out of the way of the shift rod when it's in 5-6 pretty easily. I just heat it up with a propane torch and insert a long 1/2" socket extension in the bung and then bend it out of the way.

http://kendrish.com/galleries/blackS6/misc/new_01E_linkage_positions.JPG

If you have everything setup outside of the car before you put it in, it's not too bad and you can test it out.

The only pipes I've worked with that needed no modifications at all were Millteks. Otherwise, the stock ones you need to clearance the stock left side trans mount and add some abrasion resistance to the left rear O2 sensor. With the XSPower ones, you need to adjust the bung position on the left front and clearance the stock left side trans mount.

I dug up some pictures of the mods needed ot the left side trans mount and also the axle shield that hits the turbine housing.


After mod:
http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/Travis/2018_04_02/20180402_154923.jpg

It's a repetitive process until you get it right:
http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/Travis/2018_04_02/20180402_154942.jpg

Axle shield clearanced:
http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/Travis/2018_04_02/20180402_160850.jpg

I put a piece of DEI heat tape on both sides to add some heat resistance:
http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/Travis/2018_04_02/20180402_161058.jpg

Installed:
http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/Travis/2018_04_02/20180402_161402.jpg

http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/Travis/2018_04_02/20180402_161407.jpg

[SteveKen]

So what's a lad to do? A 7mm hex just turns freely in the inner hex.

So, I took an 8mm hex, ground off the end-bevels (to give it a more aggressive bite). ever-so-slightly ground off .5mm off each flat side of the shank and hammered it in.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19018&stc=1

And, got the little bugger out.


I assume that you are going to use a new replacement when you re-install it? Check to see that the accompanying stud is inserted far enough. If too much of it is sticking out, then it could be hindering the amount of bite you have on the inner hex. I've also seen replacement nuts that look like long shafts so that the hex is outside of the manifold. I might have some lying around here somewhere....

[SteveKen]

Sorry all, never saw the earlier comment about heat soak....doh. One other thing. I have stage 4 clutch in mine and it slips, and seems previous owner had issues from the get go. There was mention somewhere that a clutch line was also too close to an oil line. I haven't pursued this yet though so take this with a grain of salt at this point. HTH

The clutch line is essentially a brake line with brake fluid so it should be comparable to the brake lines when it comes to heat resistance. The issue I've seen is with used 2.7t slave lines that have seen better days that are ruptured internally and are otherwise visually ok until you actuate the clutch and can see the line swell or even leak shortly after being installed.

[redwoodkiwi]

I assume that you are going to use a new replacement when you re-install it? Check to see that the accompanying stud is inserted far enough. If too much of it is sticking out, then it could be hindering the amount of bite you have on the inner hex. I've also seen replacement nuts that look like long shafts so that the hex is outside of the manifold. I might have some lying around here somewhere....

Hah. You assume correctly sir. I've ordered the newer longer manifold fasteners that fit the manifold recesses as per the suggestion of @GreggPDX earlier in the thread. They should arrive tomorrow.

[redwoodkiwi]

While waiting for other bits'n'bobs I got to disassembling the front of the motor in prep for a full timing belt change - cleaned her up a bit too...

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19027&stc=1


And, also the valve covers in prep for changing all gaskets and seals - and also the tensioner pads.
Look what I found though...

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19028&stc=1

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19029&stc=1


Notice anything? Yeah, the 'L' and 'R' painted references (AFIK it is not factory procedure to label them in this fashion). And clean! There is barely any varnishing on the hardware (I recently had the valve covers off the Allroad with similar mileage (100k-ish) and the difference between that and this is night-vs-day). These heads have been either reconditioned or replaced entirely - and I'd guess, sometime in the last 20-25k miles.

The valve covers are original though...

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19030&stc=1

The valve covers show the varnishing you'd expect from a car with 100-ish thousand miles under its belt - and that's after a degreasing and washing down.

I wonder what happened?

The previous owner kept a very good record of maintenance - although he was the second owner and acquired the car at around 85k miles. Records from the previous owner clearly have a few gaps because there is nothing to suggest this level of work (and expense). But it does explain the utterly ruined manifold bolts.

I don't think I'll be changing the tensioner pads. The tensioners look like they were replaced at the same time - and the pads still look new. That makes things easier. I will still do the half moons, caps and cam seals since I'm in here though.

It kinda suggests a snapped belt (or broken belt roller) that, in turn, led to catastrophic valve damage - necessitating head replacement. That can't have a been a cheap repair.


Couple of questions to the grouo:

I noticed no sign of RTV sealant on the gasket or head surface. On the 2.7T's it is considered a good procedure to use RTV sealant at the lower corners of the cover and in the valleys between the tensioner actuator and the end-cam-cap. Is this not the case for the RS6 4.2? (there was no sign of leaking anywhere - not at the half moons, the cam seals, the tensioner gasket, or the valve cover gasket).

Also, what are the correct bolts for the crank pulley? (mine had a mix of 6mm m8 hex that were all stripped and triple square m8's of different lengths) (it took me over an hour to get the hex bolts out - all stripped and no room for EZ outs. bah.

[redwoodkiwi]

BTW: @SteveKen - thanks for sharing the photo's of the mods you've had to make to the trans mount and axle heat shield. I'd not seen reference to those before, and it's good to know what's coming. Very helpful.

[hahnmgh63]

Same as the 2.7t as far as the sealant goes. Factory manual shows just a small button of sealant in all of the corners you mentioned where the gasket makes a sharp angle (cam tensioner). My Crankshaft pulley is held on by the triple-square.
Although at 71k, my valve covers looked cleaner than those in your picture (after cleaning). I think a lot of it has to do with the oil being used and the frequency of change. I use Redline 5w-40 and change it about every 5~7k.

[bethridg]

I'm not saying your motor hasn't been apart recently but I had the same sharpie L & R on the two BCYs I have in my possession. Change the tensioner pads! You truly don't know the history, especially with the shoddy work/mismatch hardware. Added peace of mind you won't have to tear it apart again so soon. Just ask Jolio.

Use a bit of RTV on the cam seals.


BCY #1 ~101k miles
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19031&stc=1

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19032&stc=1

BCY #2 ~59k miles
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19033&stc=1

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19034&stc=1

[redwoodkiwi]

I'm not saying your motor hasn't been apart recently but I had the same sharpie L & R on the two BCYs I have in my possession. Change the tensioner pads! You truly don't know the history, especially with the shoddy work/mismatch hardware. Added peace of mind you won't have to tear it apart again so soon. Just ask Jolio.


Oh, now that's interesting. Maybe that is factory procedure to label them that way. Actually, now that I think about it - it's not that surprising, given that these limited edition motors were all assembled by Cosworth, by hand, in the UK. Sloppy Brits (kidding).

I'm still of the firm belief that the heads on mine have been apart and reco'd (or replaced). The varnishing is not consistent between the valve covers and the head hardware. My heads look closest to your 59k miles version (yet mine have 106k miles on them). Still, point taken about not knowing the history - I'll change the tensioner pads. Thank's for the nudge @bethridg.

[redwoodkiwi]

Well, crap. Note to all messing with chain tensioners - don't compress the pistons too much, or it could get stuck - real stuck.

Removed the chain tensioners to replace the pads. One done fine - but the other, not so much. As I was pressing hard to get the pad on, the piston went so far down into the chamber that it got stuck. No worries, just pull it out. Except it wont come it - nothing get's it out. In my attempt to retract, I broke one of the guide posts (cast aluminium - it didn't take much to break it). Sucks! Anyone been here before? Or am I the only chump?

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19037&stc=1

So, a replacement is ordered (a used one from Wolf Auto - I don't feel good about trusting one of the the cheap AMZN/eBay ones - thoughts?), but I can't proceed under the valve covers until it arrives.

[redwoodkiwi]

In the meantime, these arrived (starter blanket, and the newer longer manifold fasteners for the recesses) - so I can get back to the part of the procedure.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19038&stc=1

[redwoodkiwi]

Paging @SteveKen

I'm testing the mesh of the starter, but doing so by pulling out the pinion manually. I don't want to test crank and turn it over as I've got the crankshaft locked and the cams are out while I wait for the replacement tensioner - but I do want to button all this up and get the gearbox on. Can you eyeball this and give your blessing:

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19039&stc=1

The pinion teeth find their place at about half way in. As best as I can tell (by examining the scouring on the stock ring-gear, that's about where things were with the stock-starter/auto).


https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19040&stc=1

[SteveKen]

I think what you have in the picture looks good.

I've never had any issue with starter engagement, even though there is some wiggle room. Axially it's fixed and the guide says it shouldn't protrude past the back of the ring gear on the flywheel. half to 2/3rds into the flywheel is optimal, so this is built into the adapter.

Radially, there is some wiggle room.

How do you currently have it attached now without the transmission in place? I keep a bolt that matches the thread in lower starter hole of the block (M14 x 1 I think) to get the bottom completely centered and try to eyeball the top based on where I think it's centered as it pivots on the lower hole. Then with that lower bolt tightened, I actually run the starter using a makeshift harness to crank over the engine to check engagement. I've never had to adjust one, though with everything just visually centered. If you just have it attached with an M12 and a nut then you can't install the adapter & transmission unless you remove it and you have to readjust it again.

The starter can stay locked into position for mating the transmission if the temporary bolt on the lower is flush or protrudes a mm or so. Then when the trans and adapter are in place you can remove the lower bolt after the top is tightened and then use the lower 120mm bolt and nut to sandwich everything together.

[redwoodkiwi]

Ok, good.


How do you currently have it attached now without the transmission in place? I keep a bolt that matches the thread in lower starter hole of the block (M14 x 1 I think) to get the bottom completely centered and try to eyeball the top based on where I think it's centered as it pivots on the lower hole.

I'm doing exactly that. For the bottom bolt, I'm using a long wheel-lug bolt with a cone shoulder - which ensures a centered fit and does not protrude. For the top, I eyeballed-it as as I could with an eye-line through the ring-gear to the pinion teeth - and that got me the result you see above.


Then with that lower bolt tightened, I actually run the starter using a makeshift harness to crank over the engine to check engagement.

I can't do that with my cams out. So, I'm just going to go with how things are based on nothing looking our of order.

Thanks Steve.

[RS6-2-NJOY]

Great project and great work too. Love this kind of work.... cleaning and updating

[SteveKen]

I can't do that with my cams out. So, I'm just going to go with how things are based on nothing looking our of order.




You could actually crank the engine over if all the cams, timing belt and plugs are removed. All the valves will remain closed so there's no risk for interference.

It's probably not worth it unless you wanted to do a cold compression or leakdown test. I've fond that leakdown testing isn't reliable all the time when the cams are installed since the adjusters could never let all 5 valves completely close when I want them to. Anyway, I digress.

[redwoodkiwi]

Not a lot of progress during past couple of weeks - the focus shifted to the C5 A6 6MT race-spec Lemons car in prep for last weekends '24 Hours of Lemons Arse-Freeze Apalooza' endurance race at Sonoma Raceway. Torrential rain on the first day made for a stressful race - but we did well overall.

This is us:
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19056&stc=1


Anyway, with that now behind me I hope to find a little time in-between navigating the usual holiday madness typical of this time of year. Today I did get the tensioners in (including the replacement one) with new pads, all new seals under the valve covers, a full timing belt front-end job - and got Steve's adapter plate onto the gearbox.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19057&stc=1

A fine pice of work it is too.

[hahnmgh63]

I would think that the Quattro would shine during the rain. I know on my 944T trackcar the rain scares me on the track, and I live in the NW so I should be more use to it than most.

[redwoodkiwi]

Yes, being Quattro we did very well in the rain. The stress was in avoiding the carnage occurring all around with other cars spinning out and leaving the track in very slick conditions. The field comprised 136 cars - so very busy, especially in the corners. The second day, while still wet, was less treacherous and things settled down. It was actually the first race we completed without something catastrophic happening and taking us out for an extended period (like disintegrating CV axles or shearing tie-rods, etc). There were at least four 944's in the race - but we easily got around them in the rain.

[hahnmgh63]

Were the 944's Turbos or normally aspirated cars? I'd have to look up the rules but I was thinking the 944T's weren't allowed for some reason?

[redwoodkiwi]

Not entirely sure whether NA or T - but, at least one of them of them had an LS1 transplant (and very hard to keep up with). Regarding rules for 24 Hours of Lemons: there are few of them, and most are to do with safety not performance. The fundamental rules: You have to prove you acquired your car for no more than $500.00 (if the judges suspect you spent more, then you will get penalty laps and you will be shamed). You can spend as much as you like on anything from the hubs out (brakes, wheels+tires) and on safety (full roll-cage, fire suppression, harnesses, kill switch, fuel cell, race seat, etc - are mandatory) - but anything you spend on improving performance that doesn't look like it came in under the $500 acquisition cost will earn penalties. A lot of teams cheat their cars to the max and don't really care about the penalties (most of the BMW e30's and spec-Miata's fall into this category) - they are just in it for the low-cost wheel-to-wheel experience - others, like us, respect the Lemons spirit and stay within the rules (for that, the judges like and respect us, and go easy on us during black-flag situations, etc). Essentially '24 hours of Lemons' is for cars that shouldn't really be racing, and for teams that don't take things too seriously. We race a fat-executive luxury sedan that has no business racing - and it's incredibly good fun! <Grin>.

[redwoodkiwi]

Back at it yesterday. Gearbox on, shifter and linkages attached. Passenger turbo back on along with all associated in/out coolant/oil lines, new gaskets, seals and crush washers.

Happy with clearance of turbo oil feeder line as it tucks in behind the manifold (this was a discussion point earlier in thread). Final position has it clear of the manifold by 5mm all round.

Spent far too long removing a couple of sheared studs on the turbo-downpipe flange (that I had conveniently forgotten about since removal) - necessitating requisite amounts of heat, brute strength, cursing, drilling, more cursing, beer, and re-tapping. Glad that's behind me.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19059&stc=1

Question to the OG conversion wizards regarding the Crank Position Sensor: Is the 2.7T CPS required? Or can I use the stock RS6 sensor with a spacer? AFAICT, the sensor is the same mechanism for both - but the RS6 auto version is longer (which, if used, would surely get messed up). Anybody been down this path before? I find no mention on the forum. Actually, what I find on the forum is people referring to the speed sensor - which, I thought was the sensor located at the driver axle flange on the transmission - does that need to be changed too? I'm a bit confused (and not helped by people using the nomenclature to describe one when I think they mean the other).

[nubcake]

Spacer works for CPS.
Speed sensor works as is IIRC.

[redwoodkiwi]

Spacer works for CPS.
Speed sensor works as is IIRC.

Thank you @nubcake. Did you do this? If so, what did you use as a spacer? (said, while looking around the garage for something that a I can use).

Pedal assembly today. Not looking forward to squeezing my upsidedown arse into the footwell.

[hahnmgh63]

I used the 2.7t CPS but as Nubcake said you can use the OEM with a spacer but it will be sticking out a ways.

078906435 distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1
distance piece, impulse sender, for this use: 10,5MM, 059 906 435 A, 078 906 435

059906435A distance piece, impulse sender 6,5MM 1

078906435 distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1

059906435 distance piece, impulse sender 10,5MM 1

07806435 distance piece, impulse sender 4,0MM 1

[redwoodkiwi]

@hahnmgh63 - where did you pull that detail from? Not questioning it, just curious as to where I need to go to find that level of detail on my own.

Anyway, as it turned out, I could not get the stock RS6/Tip CPS into place. After fabricating a spacer and getting that on the shaft I just could not find the clearance needed for a clean insertion - not without moving the turbo housing (which I did not want to do). It was close, very close, but the angle was off just enough so that force would have been required. So, after conceding defeat, I ran down to OReilly's and picked up a Bosch 2.7T version. Even that, with a shaft length 10mm shorter than the stock version, it was difficult getting into place. Wouldn't want to replace that with the motor in the car!

Got the pedals in. I opted for the method that involves leaving the existing assembly in place while swapping out, and adding, just the components needed to make it a so that one can row (the brake pedal is swapped for the narrower version, the clutch pedal is added along with the master cylinder, the clutch spring, and a couple of switches). For those considering this path, it's possible to do this as the main pedal assembly bracket is the same for both Auto and Manual c5 platform cars. However, it is fiddly, and challenging to do while inverted upside down in the foot-well. That clutch spring almost got the better of me. The other method is to remove the entire assembly as one unit and replace with the other. Each method has it's gotcha's and I'm not sure if one is actually easier/quicker than the other. To remove the entire assembly you do need to disassemble the booster at the firewall to gain access to a couple of important bolts - not a trivial task, as the reservoir and brake master cylinder need to come out as well. That said, the latter method may be easier than what I just went through.

Routed the line from the clutch master, through the steering rack cavity, so that it is now in place for connecting to the slave. A task made easier by using the flexible braided line from USP Motorsports.

Wiring is half done. I'm finding it time-consuming (partly because I have OCD and require every join to be cleanly soldered and heatshrunk). I had to re-route the speed sensor cable (across the top of the block) as the tail wasn't long enough to reach the sensor switch on the 01E when coming from its stock route low on the left side). I haven't quite figured out how to wire up the reverse switch yet - but I'm sure the interwebs will help. Anybody got a pinout of the round plug that would otherwise be connected to the TIP? I'm pretty sure that's where I'll find what I need.

Just a couple of minor things to be done and she's ready to go back in. I realized today that I don't have gear oil to fill the 01E - so there's that. Complete the wiring, get the transmission mounts on, the down-pipes - and that's about it. Very close.

[hahnmgh63]

An old version of ETKA. If the numbers have been superseded you should still be able to plug those part numbers into a site like Genuine Audi or Sunset and they should show the superseded part #.
I was one of those that swapped out the whole pedal assembly, not sure which one is easier as it's tight under the dash either way. I did have both front seats out as I was swapping in Euro Recaros at the same time. I also used the USP braided line and ran it under the transmission tunnel heat shield, attached it to a cast iron clutch slave cylinder.

[rah]

I just got on board reading this project. I have been wanting to do a manual swap on mine for a long time but never pulled the trigger from the fear of the involvement and shear volume of work that has to be done. Also, just like you, i can wrench, but the basics and never got that deep into a project outside of a couple clutches and regular maintenance.

Nice work and looking forward to the conclusion of your project, it gives me hope to do mine eventually!

[redwoodkiwi]

Not much progress over last few days given the obligations of the holidays, etc.
(Umm, actually, no progress whatsoever.)

But, I did get the motor and trans back in the car before Christmas - just never got to posting the pics.

Going back in...

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19088&stc=1

I did not take the motor/trans out with the subframe - I should have - installation would be so much easier. I think.


And, in.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19089&stc=1


Question:

Notice the alignment at the front engine mount. I do not recall how this was before removal, but there are tell-tale marks on the bracket that suggest that the alignment of the rail mount anchor and the engine mount anchor were true. These photos indicate that the alignment is off by about 15mm. Or, said another way; the motor is set back 15mm from where it had been earlier.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19090&stc=1

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19091&stc=1

The motor and trans are comfortably sitting in all other mount locations - with the main motor mounts sitting at their center-most positions. So, I do not understand how this is even possible. That is, of course, if I am even right that it was true and not skew to begin with (I'd not be thinking this way if it were not for the marks on the rail mount suggesting that it was aligned true).

Installed anyway:

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19092&stc=1

Thoughts?


Oil Cooler:
Would have started her up - but, realized that I have an oil cooler issue to deal with. On removal, I could not get the return line off the combination oil/trans-oil cooler. Got the feeder side off, but not the other. In my attempt to breaker it off, I shifted it just enough to crack the seal - so it now leaks. I somehow have to get it tight again, or off completely - but I am unable to budge it in either direction. Heat has not worked. Not sure what to do just yet - but, for the moment, it means I am unable to fill the motor with oil and unable to start. Bah.

[nubcake]

You used incorrect part to bolt it on.
This small "aluminum looking" piece is just a spacer, meant to be placed on the leftmost 2 bolts in your pic.
You need a big steel (black) part with 3 holes, which goes above it.

I don't have a pic on hand.

[redwoodkiwi]

You used incorrect part to bolt it on.
This small "aluminum looking" piece is just a spacer, meant to be placed on the leftmost 2 bolts in your pic.
You need a big steel (black) part with 3 holes, which goes above it.

I don't have a pic on hand.

ah. well, that's because I'm an idiot.
Damn. Ok. Now I need to find what you're talking about.

[hahnmgh63]

What Nubcake said, that is the wrong bracket. Here is a pic that you can see the bracket in.
19093
And that spacer you are using goes under this bracket. Right off hand it looks like the engine/trans are too far back.

[Muggy]

I'm not so sure about the motor being too far back...from the pic in hahnmgh63's post, there is an angle in that bracket which looks about the same as the OP's offset to match. We'll see once the bracket is located though and if it fits or not.

Really enjoying the thread, keep up the good work!

Thanks to a strong business year and generous family, holiday bonus and gifts have fully funded my garage expansion...architect and contractors are working on it now...I'll be sooo much more inclined to pull off a project like this once I have more than a skinny single garage!

:cheers:

[hahnmgh63]

I've got one of those video inspection cameras I can snake in there and take a look at mine since it's altogether and see if it sits back, I should be able to take some pics with it too.
P.S. Ok, a little grainy but you can see how the mount goes. The pic is take with the camera going from the left side of the car looking towards the motor mount on the right side, crossways in front of the engine.
19094
I'll E-mail you the picture itself which is a little better definition than get uploaded on here.

[redwoodkiwi]

Gents,

Many thanks for lending a hand to solve this. I'm not able to lay may hands on the correct mounting bracket as I am not near the car - and will not be until the new year (traveling). But, I do have a vague recollection of seeing it and wondering what it was (somehow, I failed to place it in my otherwise orderly collection of bits for reverse-order installation).

@muggy is right, the bracket is shaped in a way that validates the motor being situated where I show it in the photos. The image shared by @hahnmh63 validates this as well - despite being grainy, you can see the bend in the bracket. The tell-tale marks on the rail-side mount location must be from the spacer that @nubcake refers to. All is right in the universe.

[redwoodkiwi]

Ok. Back at the car.

...and found the front mount bracket.

Installed.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19100&stc=1

Much better. :-)

Conversion bits that came from audis4parts.com included shifter console insert and boot from a b5 not a c5 - so had to mod existing auto-shifter insert to get this result (hint, patience required for the procedure):

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19101&stc=1

Happy with the result though.

Hoping to get the car buttoned up, remainder of drive-train installed, exhaust on, started, put on the ground and driven out of the garage today (all pending successes with oil cooler, clutch bleeding, leak testing, and no hidden surprises). Nothing like a bit of enthusiastic optimism for the new year.

[jolio1994]

Glad to hear you're on the home stretch. Just some advice for when you bleed the clutch, make sure the rear end is about 1-2 ft above the front. The 01e slave cylinder will never properly bleed if it's not.

Also with that, there should be plenty of room to get your hand in from the top if you deleted the SAI and disconnect the breather hose that comes off the driverside turbo inlet. Takes about 5 minutes to fully bleed by yourself and a 3' 2x4 for the clutch pedal. Can't wait to see it on the road!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48048189548_37bd7bef86_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gcRwMb)20190608_231330 (https://flic.kr/p/2gcRwMb) by Joel Francisco (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150736981@N05/)

[redwoodkiwi]

Good news. Bad news.

Drove the car yesterday and day before - putting about 50mi on it. Felt GREAT, solid, sorted. So far, only two minor issues. A coolant leak at the radiator main hose (requiring bumper-removal and re-seating) and no reverse. The no-reverse was a bit concerning, but turned out to be an adjustment required at the shifter end of the linkage. Both were easily fixed.

As others have reported while at this stage, the idle is a little wobbly (hunting between 700-800rpm), and the ABS and Traction Control lamps are lit. No CEL (which surprised me - I expected that the SAI delete would have flipped that switch).

I had not driven the car much at all since acquisition - putting only a few miles on it with a dodgy trans in limp mode. So this was really the first time uninhibited. The car feels a lot like my RS4. A lot of low down torque - surprisingly little lag. Pushed-back-into-the-seat torque - and this is while babying the clutch. Oh, the clutch - a stage 4 ringer (non-puck) - it bites hard (and will take a little getting used to), but not so hard that it will be uncomfortable to drive. This car wants to play. Excellent!

So, onto the tune.

The bad news:

Reached out to nubcake to begin the tune process. Nubcake, despite being on a very different time-zone is very responsive and quick. With a nubcake tune ready for flashing (and with nubcake online with remote access to my PC, and ready to guide) we started the process. Long story short - we bricked the ECU - and boot loading is extremely tricky. Turns out, the ECU was already sporting a tune -and was hardware modded. Had no clue of this until opening it up.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19102&stc=1

Notice the daughter board. It has been installed and takes the place of the OEM AM29F800BB chip.


Board removed:

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19103&stc=1


And close ups of board:

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19104&stc=1


There are no markings to suggest origin tuner. Hoping that someone can identify.

Options:
Determine original tuner - locate and send in for reverse-mod/crypto
Source AM29F800BB chip and find someone that can reverse the mod.
Source and a used ECU.

Very frustrating to be at this point. Anti-climatic.

My thoughts are, with this type of tune already installed, that it will be one of the bigger shops - APR, MTM, or similar. Does anyone have any experience with these style of tunes and/or experience that can identity the above?

[bethridg]

I ran into the exact same situation when Daz remote tuned my car. It's how I found out mine had an MTM chipped ecu & tcu. Fortunately at the time he had one on his shelf he sent to me.


I don't have anything else to offer for identification other than a picture of my MTM chip. I would bet your easiest solution out of those options is to try sourcing a used one. Hit up all the part outs.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19105&stc=1

[Muggy]

That's a bummer...you should be able to find a used one with a little searching...

Good thing that nubcake never sleeps...he did a great tune on mine and will certainly help you get sorted once you get the hardware situated.

Glad to hear that you like the car so far!

[jolio1994]

I suppose I could sell my spare. I know you messaged me earlier, but shoot me a PM w/ offer

[redwoodkiwi]

Thanks @jolio1994 - hang on to it for now. @nubcake is attempting to source one also - and I'm also exploring the path to restoring the ECU to OEM spec. I've got a couple of the AM29F800BB CMOS chips on the way (cheap as they are 20+ years old tech now) and with those, all I need to do is find someone w/surface-mount soldering skills. I'll have a better idea of where I'm standing in a few days.

[Muggy]

So I realized a few days ago that my A6 2.7t 6 speed that I've been trying to sell has never really run at it's full potential until yesterday...had intermittent EGT issues throwing it into limp. Got that fixed and now running a strong stage 1+....you are going to absolutely love the RS6 on the manual!

Really makes me re-think selling my A6 donor now, but I've committed to a buyer and I don't want to be that guy. I won't be able to get it through emissions and he's from a neighboring state without any emissions laws (WVA)...if he doesn't buy it, I'm parting it and keeping the 6 speed stuff when my emissions extensions run out!

[redwoodkiwi]

Back at it. @Nubcake was able to source a replacement ECU - received it a couple of days ago. Flashed with his base map, and we're out driving again. Nice!


https://youtu.be/DNzdIM8QhbA

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DNzdIM8QhbA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Really like how it feels. Sorted.

[redwoodkiwi]

Things were going so well, until things didn't.

<sigh>

On the drive back home (see above). This happened

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19108&stc=1

Gave it the wellies a bit on a short stretch and as soon as came-off-the-gas, the car choked and stalled. Lost all power. Coasted to a stop, started and it went into a lumpy reluctant idle. Gave it gas and it just wanted to stall. The country road was narrow and with no shoulder. So, here we are stranded in the road. Sucks.

It seemed symptomatic of a big air leak. Like a charge hose came off a turbo. It was hard to tell, but a visual inspection on the road didn't reveal anything.

After getting the car home on a trailer, eventually discovered this using an endoscope camera:

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19109&stc=1


What you see there is an acorn wedged into the butterfly flap of the throttle body.

AN ACORN !!??

Well, that explained a lot.

Getting it out meant getting it into service position - bah.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KjW8fJoKhEQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

With the throttle body removed...

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19110&stc=1

Yup, two more in the intake.

Extracted all the acorns, back together and all is ok.

I'm having a hard job explaining how those got in there. All I can think may have happened is that a rodent stored a few acorns in one of the intercoolers while I had the car disassembled. And then, under pressure/vacuum they got sucked into the manifold through the throttle body when WOT. Kinda made me want to go on a rodent hunting revenge mission.

Also explains what I thought was a lifter tick. Nope, just acorns bouncing around in the intake manifold.
(acorns gone, so has the tick). heh.

Amazing.

So, lesson learned. Must get cats.

[kruat]

Wow man, that could have been much worse.

[hahnmgh63]

I think I'd still do a compression check on all cylinders to make sure the valves are fine. 40 valves out there to damage.

[Muggy]

Geez...that's nuts! Glad it was a simple fix...I'm sure your heart was in your shorts for a few hours though...

[redwoodkiwi]

Wow man, that could have been much worse.
Yes. I consider myself lucky. Hard to know what would have happened if an acorn had made its way into a valve port. As best as we could, we used the camera to view into each of the ports, and also into the intercooler cavities (on the cold side) to check for any additional acorns - it all came out clear.


Geez...that's nuts! Glad it was a simple fix...I'm sure your heart was in your shorts for a few hours though...
Yeah, that's kinda an understatement.

@Muggy, BTW - selling the donor? What, with permission from the wife to get more working space - essentially, all lights green - and you go and get rid of the parts bin !!??



I think I'd still do a compression check on all cylinders to make sure the valves are fine. 40 valves out there to damage.
That's very good advice - and something that I should do regardless. I can tell you that after clearing the acorns on Sunday, I have put close to 300miles on the car (including a round trip to Sacramento resulting in the purchase of another project car - a Porsche 928 - oops) and all feels fine.

[redwoodkiwi]

A few general comments regarding my experience so far with a Ringer Racing Stage 4 Clutch (non-puck):

I had posted earlier my first initial thoughts on the clutch stating that it was not too harsh and would probably be fine as a daily as it felt quite similar to the stock clutch feel on my RS4. I don't know what I was thinking, and I take that back. I put a lot of miles on the car yesterday, and today I ventured into San Francisco city traffic (hills, lots of stop-and-go etc) - and it has been difficult. I am doing my best to observe break-in protocol - not exceeding 3500-4000 rpm, rev matching on shift, not loading on low rpm, etc - and for the most part I've been a very good boy. I am experiencing shudder at launch - and also when slowing below 1200 rpm in second. Feathering the clutch (or slipping the clutch) is almost impossible. It is just so grabby. It seems like as soon as the clutch plate finds the flywheel, it bites hard. Fast shifts in higher gears and higher rpms are fine - its just while at low rpm and in low gear.

To summarize: it's hard work.

A question for those with stage 3 or 4 clutch kits. Did you experience this? Does it it get better? When?

[jolio1994]

I had the Ringer Racing Stage 4+ as well and while it was never able to hold the full tq (due to my poor break in procedure) it was amazing; so great that I bought another one for my current build.

I'd say the first 1000 miles it shutter and engage rather harshly, but after that it was glorious. My father has a B5 S4 on K24's and some clutch he bought from SoloMotorsports and theres no comparison. He actually bought one he liked it so much and will be installing it on my next venture home.

I will add that I've had the RS4 clutch and even a Southbend Stage 2+ on my K04 B5 S4, and the Ringer Racing was less bite'y, smoother, and softer... almost as soft as a stock B5 S4.

[GreggPDX]

My AMD Stage 3+ has an 8-puck ceramic disk, and it's always been grabby with shudder at launch. Over time, it has improved, but I'm at 7K+ miles, and it's still not anywhere near smooth. Hopefully the Ringer Racing clutch will improve over time since I was seriously considering using it at some point in the future.

[Ian]

nice project, I'm just about to embark on a manual conversion too.

[redwoodkiwi]

Well, it’s been a couple of weeks since checking in here – and during that time I’ve driven the RS6 a good 1500+ miles (including a round trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles, taking in Sacramento and other parts of the central valley). I’d say that she’s pretty well bedded-in and the conversion was a success.

I’ve been meaning to compile a comprehensive re-cap of the conversion paying attention to the gotcha’s and head-scratchers that might be useful to those considering the process – and I will do so. In the meantime, I’m happy to say that the clutch has settled down a bit. It’s still very grabby, and it still requires focus at launch – but it’s not as harsh as it was at the outset. This is consistent with comments above from @jolio1994 and @GreggPDX. I expect that it will continue to settle in. The grabby nature of the clutch was to be expected and is only really is a pain at launch. Once moving, rowing is easy and feels ‘stock’.


https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19125&stc=1

So much better with a stick - don't you think?

[jolio1994]

Glad to hear!

I was in Bakersfield this past week! Damn, you couldn't have asked for better driving weather

[parkertseng]

hey redwoodkiwi, thanks for you effort. just wondering when will your recap and tips available to share with us?
Thanks

[Muggy]

hey redwoodkiwi, thanks for you effort. just wondering when will your recap and tips available to share with us?
Thanks

X2! I can possibly see mine going this route in a year or so...I want to be sure that my refresh efforts are all correct and I can drive & enjoy the car for a while before starting on another major project. Between yours, Jolio's, SteveKen's, and a few others, this info is really invaluable when documenting thoroughly.... thanks to all for sharing! :0: