is there an actual turbo upgrade that will bolt to RS6 manifolds?

[travish325]

I have been searching all day and all I can find are dead threads. Mostly people starting build threads saying they are going to do this and that, then 2 pages later its dead...


I am going to have my car apart for a 6 speed swap, and I want to upgrade the turbos. I don't want to go to the extent of building custom manifolds and all that jazz. That being said, is there a turbo option that will bolt up to the factory manifolds? I see SRM has hybrids but I read they aren't the best made. I also read that the RS6 manifold has the same mount as the 2.7t, If that is the case would running something like gt28s be possible? like these: https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-224&Category_Code=27T

I understand some custom work will still be required for the turbo inlets and plumbing.

I cant find any info on this so I appreciate any input.

[travish325]

https://www.etektuning.com/tte650-turbocharger-for-audi-4-2t-rs6-c5/

anyone tried these?

[GreggPDX]

I'm not an expert, but I've done a lot of reading and I'm definitely interested in upgrading my turbos at some point too.

Generally speaking, the only turbos that are true bolt-on are the "hybrid turbos" available from multiple sources. All of these are essentially stock turbos where the compressor housing is machined to accept a bigger wheel. Nothing is done to the turbine housing, but sometimes the turbine wheels will be clipped to increase flow. The SRM and TTE units fall into this category. There are several other companies that will do the same (Blouch, Scroll, etc...)

The eliminator kit from ATP will bolt-up to the exhaust manifold, but the inlets won't. You should be able to make them fit with some custom fab work, and I've heard of several people have done similar things on the RS6. The downpipes will probably need to be modified or replaced too, but that should be pretty easy.

AMD in Seattle is building a car right now with the Tial 880's using stock manifolds, but custom inlets. I believe the 880's are similar physically to the GT28's, but I'm not 100% sure.

Personally, I'm starting with rebuilt stock turbos, gutted downpipes and a custom tune. Once that is sorted and I'm comfortable that everything is working well, I'm going to start upgrading parts like intercoolers and fuel system, then polish up my welding skills and get the GT2871r Eliminators. We shall see how far I get :)

[GreggPDX]

Also, go follow timhaugan (https://www.instagram.com/timhaugan/) on Instagram and check his pictures. He owns the car AMD is building and has posted some pics of the turbos bolted up. Not a lot of details, but you can get an idea of what they are doing. You can also follow fastaudi, that's the account for AMD.

Finally, you can search rs246.com for info as well. They are focused on cars across the pond, but they have done some interesting builds.

I have yet to find anywhere that has a good, comprehensive description of a big-turbo RS6 build, but with some research, you can piece together a lot of info. If you decide to go down that path, you can be the first!

[GreggPDX]

Tease...

18377

[Aronis]

When my engine was out and all apart I was very tempted to upgrade the turbos.....but I was already spending too much on the repair to consider it. And I did not want to add a 'new transmission' to the parts list.

Mike

[ttboost]

Unless you are willing to commit to custom headers or different manifolds, you are stuck with stock compressor housings. As I recall, there is a compressor wheel upgrade, but not sure they are even still doing that? There isn't a lot of room under there for anything huge. I also looked into this when I did my swap and gave up.

[travish325]

Unless you are willing to commit to custom headers or different manifolds, you are stuck with stock compressor housings. As I recall, there is a compressor wheel upgrade, but not sure they are even still doing that? There isn't a lot of room under there for anything huge. I also looked into this when I did my swap and gave up.

So with a manual transmission gt2871's wouldn't fit? I know some modifications would be needed to get the inlets and charge piping to work correctly. But would they bolt up and fit?

[ttboost]

It's not just the space limitation. Have you seen your engine out yet? Have you seen how tiny the compressor housing is? And how close it is to the factory manifold? I might have a picture, but I'd have to hunt for it...

[ttboost]

This may help.

18378

[travish325]

So.... With custom work will the GT28rs eliminator kit bolt to the factory manifolds?

[ttboost]

I don't know what that is, but if it requires using the stock manifolds, it will be a waste of time, IMO. The stock turbos are TINY, both on the exhaust and the intake sides. EVERYTHING on that hot side is too small. Any improvement with factory parts will be minimal. Anyone who has gotten reasonable gains, has started from scratch.

[travish325]

The GT28rs don't use anything but the manifold.

[Bigglezworth]

The reason the threads all die is because just like you as a new owner hoped to change turbos to "make more power" and will quickly find out there simply isn't sufficient space to undertake things. The engineers spent a host of time shoehorning this powerplant in to this chassis and you're left with what you're left with. I have spent many hours repairing everything engine and chassis related on this car and over the years have even gone as far as dreaming up new configurations for turbos. This includes splitting the manifolds, using dual throttle bodies, sandwiching turbos between the heads (like they have since done on the new 4.0TT, etc. Hell, I've even tossed around the idea to put turbos on the sides of the engine up front just behind the intercoolers like is commonly done with a TT Buick, but there is simply too much rework to support.

Yes, once you have removed the spaghetti for the SAI off the back of the heads, you have a bit more room, but the front differential makes everything on the passenger side stupidly tight. If you have never gone through the efforts to R&R a stock turbo on this car, then you simply can't appreciate what I'm saying. Swapping to a manual tranny will indeed give you some additional room, but not leaps and bounds. If you are really in love with the idea of taking this tank of a car and trying to make it go quicker than things like a tune, minor head work, and cams can do, then you may consider hacking up your center tunnel to eek out more interior volume to house larger turbos. That IMO is the ONLY way you will shoehorn in anything else than the OEM configuration......

Once you are considering something as drastic as what I've outlined above, it would beg the question why you wouldn't put all that money and effort in to a ride in which it's easier to execute and which would provide better end result - i.e. a purpose built ride with high power vs. a luxury sport saloon.

[Bigglezworth]

That said, anything is possible if you have big $$ to throw at it. Personally, those $ are better realized in my NSX or my modded GNX. I'm just fine with a quicker than average sedan as it is.

[nubcake]

Guys, with all due respect. Check the picture that Gregg posted. Those babies will easily support 700hp. And it's not too much work to get them to fit. It's not a walk in the park either, but with MT it's very doable.
2.7 GT28 Eliminators do fit as well, with even less changes required. We have a car with those locally, hopefully should go in for tuning when spring comes. Power still remains to be seen, but I'm thinking 650-700.

Pic:
18381

Placing turbos on the sides also has been accomplished (https://www.drive2.ru/l/10106084/).
It all depends on how much you're willing to spend (and/or how good you are with fabricating).

[Bigglezworth]

Guys, with all due respect. Check the picture that Gregg posted. Those babies will easily support 700hp. And it's not too much work to get them to fit. It's not a walk in the park either, but with MT it's very doable.
2.7 GT28 Eliminators do fit as well, with even less changes required. We have a car with those locally, hopefully should go in for tuning when spring comes. Power still remains to be seen, but I'm thinking 650-700.

Pic:
18381

Placing turbos on the sides also has been accomplished (https://www.drive2.ru/l/10106084/).
It all depends on how much you're willing to spend (and/or how good you are with fabricating).A host of fuss IMO that takes lots of $ to eek out possibly 100hp more in a 4400lb car.

[travish325]

I would just like to know what all will and wont work with the gt2871 eliminator kit. Aka, will the oil lines, coolants lines, and wastegates all work with what is there? I am not worried about fabbing up inlets and outlets to get the plumbing to work.

I think a lot of these threads die because no one has the means or the money to actually do this. Yes I could easily drop money in something else. But this has been my dream car since I was a kid and I have the means and the money to build it. I'm not looking for a 1000hp monster. Rather 650-700hp with decent boost response.

[lswing]

I think a lot of these threads die because no one has the means or the money to actually do this. Yes I could easily drop money in something else. But this has been my dream car since I was a kid and I have the means and the money to build it. I'm not looking for a 1000hp monster. Rather 650-700hp with decent boost response.

I think you're about the 10-15th person to go down this path in the last 5 years. There have been a few I think that hit their mark, but most move on or keep moderately modified due to the trouble/time/cost. Not that the money isn't there, but how much $ per hp do you want to put into this type of car I guess. Tim's at AMD is interesting, maybe he'll chime in here, it's only been in the AMD shop for two years and $k? Keep in mind your daily driving ease is going out the window with a big clutch and high hp...

[Bigglezworth]

I would just like to know what all will and wont work with the gt2871 eliminator kit. Aka, will the oil lines, coolants lines, and wastegates all work with what is there? I am not worried about fabbing up inlets and outlets to get the plumbing to work.

I think a lot of these threads die because no one has the means or the money to actually do this. Yes I could easily drop money in something else. But this has been my dream car since I was a kid and I have the means and the money to build it. I'm not looking for a 1000hp monster. Rather 650-700hp with decent boost response.Sounds to be like you're part of the new trifecta (with NubCake, GregPDX, and yourself) that are going to finally pull the plug and dump the time and money in modding things. No one else on this board has completed this extensive of a modification to gain additional power possibilities over what you can already do with cams, porting, meth injection and a decent tune. You are clearly going to need to consider transmission efforts also as a few of us on this board are already pushing our luck with their tranny's holding out with power levels that are easily 600hp....

Best of luck!

[ttboost]

I would just like to know what all will and wont work with the gt2871 eliminator kit. Aka, will the oil lines, coolants lines, and wastegates all work with what is there? I am not worried about fabbing up inlets and outlets to get the plumbing to work.

I think a lot of these threads die because no one has the means or the money to actually do this. Yes I could easily drop money in something else. But this has been my dream car since I was a kid and I have the means and the money to build it. I'm not looking for a 1000hp monster. Rather 650-700hp with decent boost response.

As has been said...it will be a tough and expensive road... and you "likely" won't hit your goal, whatever that may be. Along with turbos, you need intercoolers and piping, all of which is an engineering marvel/nightmare in this car. Most of "us" that have started this "project", bailed because "we" determined that it will be a tremendous amount of time and money (lost time and money, if you care about that) to dump into a 15yr old car, and realized there are better and easier cars to mod, with greater results.

My tuned 6sp RS6 made ~480awhp and ~560awtq, with stock turbos, and could "only" muster a 4.2-4.0 0-60 on it's best day. My 2013 S8 runs consistent 3.5's bone stock. Understandably, a huge price comparison with regard to price of entry, but at the end of the day, I determined I would rather spend the money here than there.
Good luck on your travels. With enough time and money, you can do anything. "we" chose not to.

[vtraudt]

the only turbos that are true bolt-on are the "hybrid turbos" available from multiple sources. All of these are essentially stock turbos where the compressor housing is machined to accept a bigger wheel. Nothing is done to the turbine housing, but sometimes the turbine wheels will be clipped to increase flow. The SRM and TTE units fall into this category. There are several other companies that will do the same (Blouch, Scroll, etc...)

Obviously, the first limit is the 5HP24 transmission. Pushing the stock turbos a bit more, we saw 730 lb ft at the crank on the dyno with a so-so tune on pump gas.
If the transmission limitation is taken car of (or simply ignore), then hybrid turbos should provide enough power to max out the stock block.
While standard hybrid turbos in deed often only upgrade the compressor ("machined out, larger wheel"), we have also addressed the flow restriction on the hot side. We are using a less restrictive, higher flowing turbine wheel in conjunction with a big (similar to GT2867) billet, extended tip compressor housing/wheel.

Wondering what power is made with 2871 or Tial 880 (and what trannies are use; even the 01E has its limits, or?)

[travish325]

Obviously, the first limit is the 5HP24 transmission. Pushing the stock turbos a bit more, we saw 730 lb ft at the crank on the dyno with a so-so tune on pump gas.
If the transmission limitation is taken car of (or simply ignore), then hybrid turbos should provide enough power to max out the stock block.
While standard hybrid turbos in deed often only upgrade the compressor ("machined out, larger wheel"), we have also addressed the flow restriction on the hot side. We are using a less restrictive, higher flowing turbine wheel in conjunction with a big (similar to GT2867) billet, extended tip compressor housing/wheel.

Wondering what power is made with 2871 or Tial 880 (and what trannies are use; even the 01E has its limits, or?)

Interesting.

Well I will be pushing the limits if the stick turbos. I'm working with Steve Ken on the swap and nubcake on the tune. When it's all said and done it will have an aeromotive 340 in tank, 044 inline, 750cc injectors and e85. After I see what that does I will look into running the gt2871s.

At this point I just want to drive the car again lol the auto is basically dead and it's no fun anymore

[vtraudt]

What is the commonly assumed (no one know, no exact science) limit for the stock block as far as torque goes (torque breaks rods, not HP)?

[nubcake]

Good for at least 1000-1100 newtons.
With big turbos and that torque carried over - should be able to see 700-800hp easily.

[vtraudt]

Good for at least 1000-1100 newtons.
With big turbos and that torque carried over - should be able to see 700-800hp easily.

I was (just for kicks) once doing the math. Using the often cited "tranny is good for 600 lbft" figured I mod the engine (upgraded turbos, fueling, breathing, maybe some WM for octane) and tune to just 'hold that torque' to say 7200 rpm. Voila: 822 HP.

Ditto using the 550 awTQ = 735 lbft from the (poorly tuned) dyno run we had: 1k HP
Now, just have to put that into the real world. Would make a nice Grand Touring car.

[GreggPDX]

Obviously, the first limit is the 5HP24 transmission. Pushing the stock turbos a bit more, we saw 730 lb ft at the crank on the dyno with a so-so tune on pump gas.
If the transmission limitation is taken car of (or simply ignore), then hybrid turbos should provide enough power to max out the stock block.
While standard hybrid turbos in deed often only upgrade the compressor ("machined out, larger wheel"), we have also addressed the flow restriction on the hot side. We are using a less restrictive, higher flowing turbine wheel in conjunction with a big (similar to GT2867) billet, extended tip compressor housing/wheel.

Wondering what power is made with 2871 or Tial 880 (and what trannies are use; even the 01E has its limits, or?)

Can you elaborate a bit on the turbo you're using? You say you are using a less restrictive turbine wheel, does that mean "clipped"? What else have you done on the turbine side to help flow?

I was reading a bit about The Turbo Engineers TTE780 which uses an RS6 hotside that is machined to take a larger turbine wheel. They only sell that turbo paired with a modified RS4 cold side, so still not a bolt-on for us.

[ttboost]

IMO, the stock RS6 turbine housing is too small no matter what you do to it, or in it...even if you get it to make some power, it won't last and will plummet...quickly...

[vtraudt]

Can you elaborate a bit on the turbo you're using? You say you are using a less restrictive turbine wheel, does that mean "clipped"? What else have you done on the turbine side to help flow?


The turbo we installed on the RS6 (currently in winter storage, to be tuned in April) has slightly larger diameter and less blades, in a slightly enlarged OEM turbin housing. The compressor is a larger, extended tip billet compressor wheel. Given the transmission limitations, I don't think the turbo will be maxed about. We are not planning to run more that (stock MAP limit) 22 psi boost. We would be very pleased to run run 20 psi to a higher redline (but we had issue when tuning this car with Daz back with stock turbos to get rpm threshold (TCU or ECU) raised IIRC. We were running 18 psi at 6250 at 75% duty cycle.

[nubcake]

Given the transmission limitations, I don't think the turbo will be maxed about. We are not planning to run more that (stock MAP limit) 22 psi boost. We would be very pleased to run run 20 psi to a higher redline (but we had issue when tuning this car with Daz back with stock turbos to get rpm threshold (TCU or ECU) raised IIRC. We were running 18 psi at 6250 at 75% duty cycle.

No! That's exactly the problem with RS6 hybrids! They don't allow enough flow through the hotside.
Therefore, you don't need raised redline, since by the time you get there - yes, you're making boost, but not power. It's getting eaten by enormous backpressure and general lack of flow. You will actually get more power by aggressively tapering that boost while ramping up ignition advance. One of "hybridized" RS6s I've seen was peaking 620ish horses at ~4500 RPM (!), but at redline it was down to 450! Obviously, this is example of a particularly badly tuned car, but the actual challenge of carrying over the power is really there.

[ttboost]

No! That's exactly the problem with RS6 hybrids! They don't allow enough flow through the hotside.
Therefore, you don't need raised redline, since by the time you get there - yes, you're making boost, but not power. It's getting eaten by enormous backpressure and general lack of flow. You will actually get more power by aggressively tapering that boost while ramping up ignition advance. One of "hybridized" RS6s I've seen was peaking 620ish horses at ~4500 RPM (!), but at redline it was down to 450! Obviously, this is example of a particularly badly tuned car, but the actual challenge of carrying over the power is really there.

Exactly. You'll spike a great number on the Dyno, then it will dive like mad. Mine made almost 650ft/lbs at 4200, and I was at 400 by 6k.

[Stephencl]

As has been said...it will be a tough and expensive road... and you "likely" won't hit your goal, whatever that may be. Along with turbos, you need intercoolers and piping, all of which is an engineering marvel/nightmare in this car. Most of "us" that have started this "project", bailed because "we" determined that it will be a tremendous amount of time and money (lost time and money, if you care about that) to dump into a 15yr old car, and realized there are better and easier cars to mod, with greater results.

My tuned 6sp RS6 made ~480awhp and ~560awtq, with stock turbos, and could "only" muster a 4.2-4.0 0-60 on it's best day. My 2013 S8 runs consistent 3.5's bone stock. Understandably, a huge price comparison with regard to price of entry, but at the end of the day, I determined I would rather spend the money here than there.
Good luck on your travels. With enough time and money, you can do anything. "we" chose not to.

The MTM and Sportec cars were in the 3.5-3.7 range. As long as you dont go crazy with the brembos as the 20 inch cast wheels....

My testing would support that.. :).... I would say that in an average everyday drive, my MTM is everybit as fast as my 2016 Porsche Panamera Turbo S, at least to 120...

But the MTM has:

Different intake runners
Different Head gastket
Different Turbos
Different Headers and exhaust
Different TCU
Programmable ECU

Im sure I am missing something...in 2003 the bill was over $40K at Joe Hoppens....

But it is reliable and repeatable power...and is an absolute blast to drive....

[ttboost]

The MTM and Sportec cars were in the 3.5-3.7 range. As long as you dont go crazy with the brembos as the 20 inch cast wheels....

My testing would support that.. :).... I would say that in an average everyday drive, my MTM is everybit as fast as my 2016 Porsche Panamera Turbo S, at least to 120...

But the MTM has:

Different intake runners
Different Head gastket
Different Turbos
Different Headers and exhaust
Different TCU
Programmable ECU

Im sure I am missing something...in 2003 the bill was over $40K at Joe Hoppens....

But it is reliable and repeatable power...and is an absolute blast to drive....

Acknowledged. My point was and is, even if you could do it for half now...$20k, you're still dumping $20k into a 15yr old car, worth $12k-$15k, ...I elected not to...For that same money, I have 10 times the technology...which I prefer...but to each his own...for what it's worth, I love seeing these older cars on the road...

[vtraudt]

Acknowledged. My point was and is, even if you could do it for half now...$20k, you're still dumping $20k into a 15yr old car, worth $12k-$15k, ...I elected not to...For that same money, I have 10 times the technology...which I prefer...but to each his own...for what it's worth, I love seeing these older cars on the road...

Best bang for buck still seems to be an aggressive stage 2 tune on stock turbo (downpipe). Or an upgraded turbo, injectors. Figure your $12k car and say $8k upgrades for total $20 invested, I cannot find a similar (4 door luxury Grand Tourer) car in that power and performance range.

[vtraudt]

Exactly. You'll spike a great number on the Dyno, then it will dive like mad. Mine made almost 650ft/lbs at 4200, and I was at 400 by 6k.
Same or similar here. Hit a wall at 6k.
Now trying a higher flowing turbine wheel.

[ttboost]

Same or similar here. Hit a wall at 6k.
Now trying a higher flowing turbine wheel.

Yep, factory manifolds and turbines just. don't. flow. enough.

[vtraudt]

Yep, factory manifolds and turbines just. don't. flow. enough.
This is a side effect of the "Eco Boost" (just done by Audi 30 years earlier) of using the turbo to supplement low/mid torque by adding it to a highly efficient naturally aspirated car. In order to spool up (until recently, it was unheard of that a turbo spools up fast and peak torque arrives at under 2k rpm), small turbos (hot and colds side) are used. And in order to provide better response, fairly restrictive exhaust manifolds (and again small 'snails' in the turbine) were used.

This general concepts applies to other VAG turbo engines (1.8T, 2.7T). Over the last few years, those "K04" framed turbos' performance have been pushed quite a bit, first on the 1.8T, later the 2.7T to provide an alternative to the "big and slow" "Big Turbo" that are readily available, but tend to provide a fairly narrow, peaky power band. It appears that not a lot has yet been done for the RS6 in this respect, probably because there are simply not that many around (and the limitation of the transmission).

I hope to have an upgraded engine (rods!) installed in my TT this summer. The TT225 turbo is similar (turbine and compressor wheel) as the RS6 turbo, and we have built a much less restrictive turbine and a big, 67mm billet compressor cold side. The turbo is already installed and running with only minor loss in spool up, but is curently heavily detuned in light of the stock rods (18-20 psi).

I am hoping for 450 cHP on E85 from this 1.8T and a 3000-7200 power band.

[mdegracia]

I went with the srms.

If I were to do it all over, probably would have went with TTE units.

As all have said before, there is no room, too many lines, too much custom fab to stray away from stock format etc. Also as everyone has said, money can be better spent on newer tech car and be way faster. I love my rs6, but i also love my c7 3.0 with pulley upgrade. I will never sell the rs6, way too invested.

I foresee a tt-rs as my next ride...

[GreggPDX]

I went with the srms.

If I were to do it all over, probably would have went with TTE units...

Just curious, why?

[mdegracia]

Level of quality and attention to detail "seems" to be better.

My SRMs came in BW boxes, so I felt they were legit. However, one of the compressor housing inlets was never bored out to properly accept the RS6 inlet adapter...

[travish325]

Thanks for all the info everyone!

The car is on its way to Steve Kendrish for the 6mt swap right now. For now I am only doing the 6mt swap, fuel pumps, injectors, and e85. Figure I'll drive it like this for a while and save up some cash to put a proper set of turbos on it.

[DHall1]

TTE.......FTW

2nd

A member here....not to be mentioned is going whole hog on another build.

Lets say turbos and some custom fab exhaust manifolds are on the agenda

[Stephencl]

HAHAHAHAH!!!!

Let's just say that TTE makes the Turbo's for a few of the well known tuners. I am convinced after my discussions with them...

Just for grins, MTM quoted me $8600 for a set of Turbos to replace my exitsing MTM Turbo's...

Stephen

[jibberjive]

Guys, with all due respect. Check the picture that Gregg posted. Those babies will easily support 700hp. And it's not too much work to get them to fit. It's not a walk in the park either, but with MT it's very doable.
2.7 GT28 Eliminators do fit as well, with even less changes required. We have a car with those locally, hopefully should go in for tuning when spring comes. Power still remains to be seen, but I'm thinking 650-700.

Pic:
https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18381&stc=1

Placing turbos on the sides also has been accomplished (https://www.drive2.ru/l/10106084/).
It all depends on how much you're willing to spend (and/or how good you are with fabricating).Hey nubcake, any update on this ATP eliminator setup? It looks like the driver's side used the unmodified wastegate location (and compressor housing outlet location) that ATP has for the 2.7. I assume the passenger side wastegate mounting had to be modified? How about the passenger side compressor housing outlet, did it need to be modified? This is the only instance I could find of someone running these on the RS6, so I'm curious how it turned out.

[nubcake]

These were never dynoed & never properly tuned, so can't really provide more solid info.
Passenger side WG had to be modded yes. Outlet fit "as is" if I recall correctly, maybe with a bit of grinding.
This car has a tough life, turbos were eventually sold elsewhere.

I think a gentleman in the UK is currently attempting the same setup.

These turbos pretty much fix the biggest exhaust restriction (turbine), but intake still needs a better solution.

[Corbett]

I don't know what that is, but if it requires using the stock manifolds, it will be a waste of time, IMO. The stock turbos are TINY, both on the exhaust and the intake sides. EVERYTHING on that hot side is too small. Any improvement with factory parts will be minimal. Anyone who has gotten reasonable gains, has started from scratch.


fake news!

We made 898WHP on stock manifolds. And a huge wide powerband.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SdLSSoKYeQ

[hahnmgh63]

I think that might be the guy known as Mario on Audizine. Some really strange looking setups and big numbers claimed but nothing ever verified. He usually slams other builds and tries to promote his own. I think he's on multiple forums with multiple usernames so you never know which one is him.