Best (easiest) way to check timing?

[UrS6]

I had my timing belt service done recently and my idle is a little lumpy now. The car drives fine I think (as fine as ever since it always seems to have some sort of BS going on with it that prevents it from ever running perfectly). There was some knock recorded and some timing pulled in a recent log but I updated my SW and it seems to run better. I have not logged with the new SW yet. I checked VCDS block 93 and i'm getting "Phase position 1> -5.0 degrees KW" "Phase position 2> -8.0 degrees KW". I understand that at least one of those figures is out of spec but the more I read the more I find that many peoples cars are similar or worse. Is there a way for me to check the timing, say by removing the valve covers, which I need to do in order to do my gaskets, and ascertain if the timing is indeed off? I need to make sure it truly is off before I bring it back. I'm not one to roll back to the shop and throw a chair through a window only to find out the belt was done properly and it is something else that is throwing off the numbers. I was told that the numbers are close enough to live with but I don't want to leave any HP on the table if I don't need to.

[Wide-66]

I wouldnt be happy with that at all if I just paid for it. Those phases should be + or - 1 each bank or better. If doing VCGs look on the cam gear side. The cam caps each have an arrow (4 total) these will align with a tiny square cut out in the cam gear when at tdc. Which bring me to where you should start which is putting in the crank lock pin. A lot of people skip this step which when dealing with synching 5 different things can add up. Though deeper then you may want to look check for a dimple on the end of the cam gear bolt. This will tell you if they broke cam gears free and set the timing the correct way.

[UrS6]

That's why I want to check it out. I don't want to roll into the shop accusing them of not doing it right I want to find out that it was not the timing belt but something else is causing issue. so if I can see the marks and they are not lined up properly I think the they will have to plead no contest to doing it over again.

[UrS6]

Also, can you get both valve cover gasket's off without removing the engine? I was looking at the Bentley today and it says that you cannot get the right side off without removing the engine. If I read correctly over the years that is not true.

[Wide-66]

Hmmm i deleted my sai so i dont want to tell you a definite yes. But with sai deleted I did it in the car. I think the real issue is the pass coolant tube. You have to remove the 2 allen bolts and move to the side. I also meant to add have replacement cam tensioner guides on hand just in case they are broken when you open it up.

[Aronis]

Both my valve covers have been off without pulling the engine or even dropping it three times. The same mechanic did it each time LOL.

It require very careful movement of the components on the rear of the passenger side bank. The coolant pipe needs to be carefully flexed.

Riddle Me this.....how come no one has come up with an aftermarket coolant pipe that either does not cross the front of the valve cover or perhaps a two piece setup you can separate on the side of the engine?

Mike

[UrS6]

Both my valve covers have been off without pulling the engine or even dropping it three times. The same mechanic did it each time LOL.

It require very careful movement of the components on the rear of the passenger side bank. The coolant pipe needs to be carefully flexed.

Riddle Me this.....how come no one has come up with an aftermarket coolant pipe that either does not cross the front of the valve cover or perhaps a two piece setup you can separate on the side of the engine?

Mike
Cut off wheel + flare tool+ hose clamps and rubber coolant tubing=2 piece.

[Aronis]

Yes, that is interesting, have you looked at that friggen pipe? IT IS NOT ROUND! It's RECTANGULAR so the clamp method would leak! I was considering that. I had the pipe in my hands at my engine pull and was looking for a way to do just that. It's an oddball pipe engineered to make our lives miserable on purpose. JK.

Mike

[UrS6]

I haven't seen it then. I must be thinking it is something else.

[Aronis]

Photo of said EVIL shaped pipe.

LOL


18038

[Aronis]

1803918040

more angles.

[Aronis]

18041

it's the last 6 inches which is just DUMB......:)

[G2]

Sounds like the sync process wasn't properly done. And/or the belt setup process. Both could stack up enough to deviate angles by that much. Were the VVT tensioner gaskets or cam seals replaced?

Looking at the cams are unlikely to help. Firmly advise against taking anything apart. It will boomerang in regards to resolving things with the shop.

- even if there are no dimples in the cam bolts, they may have been replaced (no dimples); see repair invoice. I replace them on every car, just did a RS6 couple weeks ago. The new bolts have a smaller hex, 15mm if I recall.

If they don't regularly do V8 Audi's, then it's likely a process/knowledge issue. The shop should be notified of the potential issue.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[UrS6]

Sounds like the sync process wasn't properly done. And/or the belt setup process. Both could stack up enough to deviate angles by that much. Were the VVT tensioner gaskets or cam seals replaced?

Looking at the cams are unlikely to help. Firmly advise against taking anything apart. It will boomerang in regards to resolving things with the shop.

- even if there are no dimples in the cam bolts, they may have been replaced (no dimples); see repair invoice. I replace them on every car, just did a RS6 couple weeks ago. The new bolts have a smaller hex, 15mm if I recall.

If they don't regularly do V8 Audi's, then it's likely a process/knowledge issue. The shop should be notified of the potential issue.

Good luck, keep us posted.

They do V8s regularly. Is this reading a 100% certain way to tell
if the timing wasn't set right? Sounds like it. I'd just like to know for sure when I go back.

[Bigglezworth]

They do V8s regularly. Is this reading a 100% certain way to tell
if the timing wasn't set right? Sounds like it. I'd just like to know for sure when I go back.The use of a cam bar guarantees the cams are in alignment with one another. The use of a lock-pin to guarantee the crank is at TDC is optimal, but not a dealbreaker if it's not used. You can easily check TDC by putting the damper back in alignment with TB cover.

There is a SPECIFIC way to install the tensioner to guarantee you take up the appropriate slack in the belt between crank and drivers cam sprocket. If this step wasn't performed properly, you can easily be out of time a tooth - OR more......between cam and crank timing. You need you apply 50ftlbs of torque to tensioner #1 (the large round one with the offset centre mounting so that when you rotate it, it applies tension - not the one with the pin that gets pulled) prior to tightening it in place.

I also am a strong proponent of not torquing down cam sprockets (permitting them to rotate on the cams that are locked in place with bar)until the belt is fully tentioned correcctly. This way you can guarantee cam to cam alignment also. I have seen far to many stories w/photos showing cams not aligning properly to attach a cam bar which meant the belt wasn't tensioned properly priorhand.