Have we seen the best of Audi?

[DHall1]

Global forces at play with fines and costs piling up from diesel gate to both Audi and VW.

The cost cutting will influence models and designs moving forward. Most likely evident already.

The new models feel "cheap" in my opinion. Just yesterday I spoke with a new Audi customer with a 2017 lease that she is in the process of returning and paying close to 7000 dollars to get out of the lease. Her reason? It lacks any driving excitement......and she was a long time Audi driver.

Not a good sign.

[nene]

I think it is too soon to tell, and DieselGate should have not affected in any way a 2017 model. The car was in development was likely signed off before DieselGate was known. Full impact could take a couple of years. Immediate impact would be on "halo" type cars. People will say anything to get off a lease in my opinion. I am not in the market for another Audi at this time, but my nephew's 2017 S4 is darn good looking and nice to drive.

I think the latest offerings by Mercedes are much worse looking than what Audi provides. I have been impressed by BMW.
Just lots of options attracting your hard earned cash out there.

[DHall1]

True, maybe the overall cost cutting was well on schedule. Which means it could ramp up even more.

S4, SQ5, S5 all feel cheap to me. We have a SQ5....not buying another. Door panels creak and feel plastic. Interior is blah. Nothing like the RS6.

My 13 E63 feels nice inside. Much the way the RS6 feels.

[Turbowned]

Possibly? But I would like to think not; I was very excited going to my local dealer recently. I can't think of any other carmaker that puts gigantic pictures of its race cars practically everywhere, can you? There's no mistaking where Audi's true passion lies. They're giving quattro GmbH a lot of work to do with the new RS models on the horizon and whatever racing efforts they decide to pursue after FIA WEC, in addition to their customer racing, rallycross and Formula E. So, I'd like to think the best is yet to come, but we'll see, won't we?

[DHall1]

Hanging photos of race cars is one thing.

How your current product offerings perform is another.

Many segments of the line are getting long on the tooth.

[CBeau]

I wouldn't come on here and initiate saying it myself, but since somebody else brought it up.... I'm not a fan. Multiple reasons but prime ex. would be, take current S4, its total blah, cheap, all leather-textured plastic everywhere.... and that's the S!! RS models are nowhere near as special as they used to be, by numbers or quality, the performance is there, for now, but still cheaply built 10 yr. engineered life max. All cars are like that now, but still I'd say Audi has fallen off from MB/AMG and even BMW/M which I personally have never been a big fan of, or should I say bottom of the big 3 for me.. I'm pretty sure any segment to segment match up b/w Audi, BMW, MB... Audi is probably going to be at the bottom, with some personal exceptions for me, i.e. I'd probably take a S8 over a top line BMW 7...maybe... but over a AMG S63, I don't think so, not even close. An S4 vs. a M4... I don't like Audi in that one either... at all. European RS6 here in states, maybe we'd have something to compete with AMG E and M5 but the S6/S5?? I don't think so. For me AMG is substantially ahead of S/RS and M by pretty far and all the way around = interior, body design and powertrain.

Pulling out of WEC/LeMans, for Audi - being what Audi was to LeMans for forever, is pretty much like saying we're not racing anymore. That Formula E series is lackluster at best, at least as of now IMO, and nowhere near the earthshaking storm-surge Audi produced when it brought its TDIs to LMP1. Sigh.... nostalgia of the days of seeing the ALMS P1 diesel Audis in perpetual tooth and nail street fights with the U.S. / Penske debuted P2 Porsche Spyders. Granted, VW group has shifted a lot of those racing assets to Porsche but still. How far we have fallen in road racing since those times that seem so not long ago. Audi is out of even LeMans, NASCAR took over IMSA/ALMS and made it a redneck sideshow... pitiful. The "auto industry" as we know it is doomed.... time to find a new hobby.

[SteveKen]

Probably embedded in some other threads but I've mentioned this before. To me, I's been downgrading since after the B5, C5 ans D2 cars. I might throw in a caveat for anything over a 120K price tag on some NLA in US cars like some RS models. The R8 is a big meh, too.

Just not exciting and there's not much fun in driving them. They get more powerful, but heavier too though. Nothing worthy of scaring me.

I'd also say it's not just Audi. Pretty much anything new out there is a big snoozefest.

[mdegracia]

Having worked on all of these, MB, BMW, Audi -

I would have to say I am still partial to Audi.

In my opinion, BMW has declined drastically in both fit and finish, not to mention reliability. We see many N63 and N55 motors with under 30k miles needing turbos; injectors; timing chains; and plenty of bent valve jobs because BMW had the genius idea to NOT key the crankshaft! The new 3-series offering is complete junk with more plastic trim than a KIA. Does BMW even make a true M car - i.e., all individual throttle bodies any more?

And I would never ever consider a MB. Too much emphasis on gaudy curb appeal for the young generation and always good for an electrical nightmare.

If I leased cars, I guess my point of view might change.

Last I saw, the RS7 Performance edition was pretty impressive for its class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gN6hFTCkEM

[DHall1]

Yes, we have talked about the content loss over the last 10 years. I get it, cost cutting and inflation pressures keep the constant tug of war between pricing and content.

I will I'll say my 13 E63 is fun/exciting to drive. It's the last year of rwd and it has LSD. Nice chassis dynamics and feels nimble.

Now the 13 550 msport I tried before the AMG was a snoozefest 100% spot on.


Probably embedded in some other threads but I've mentioned this before. To me, I's been downgrading since after the B5, C5 ans D2 cars. I might throw in a caveat for anything over a 120K price tag on some NLA in US cars like some RS models. The R8 is a big meh, too.

Just not exciting and there's not much fun in driving them. They get more powerful, but heavier too though. Nothing worthy of scaring me.

I'd also say it's not just Audi. Pretty much anything new out there is a big snoozefest.

[DHall1]

I agree the prev gen N63 had issues but I would have kept my daily driver if it had the chassis dynamics of my 13 E63.

I don't see the gaudy curb appeal in my 13 E63. It's just a bad fast hot rod with a decent chassis. Nothing too fancy inside just nice leather touches on dash and door panels. It's comfortable and feels like the C5 RS6


Having worked on all of these, MB, BMW, Audi -

I would have to say I am still partial to Audi.

In my opinion, BMW has declined drastically in both fit and finish, not to mention reliability. We see many N63 and N55 motors with under 30k miles needing turbos; injectors; timing chains; and plenty of bent valve jobs because BMW had the genius idea to NOT key the crankshaft! The new 3-series offering is complete junk with more plastic trim than a KIA. Does BMW even make a true M car - i.e., all individual throttle bodies any more?

And I would never ever consider a MB. Too much emphasis on gaudy curb appeal for the young generation and always good for an electrical nightmare.

If I leased cars, I guess my point of view might change.

Last I saw, the RS7 Performance edition was pretty impressive for its class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gN6hFTCkEM

[DHall1]

Pretty much my observations. I did choose my 13 E63 as my daily driver for many of the reasons noted.

Nascar.....oh boy, that's all we yanks have? What a joke we are


I wouldn't come on here and initiate saying it myself, but since somebody else brought it up.... I'm not a fan. Multiple reasons but prime ex. would be, take current S4, its total blah, cheap, all leather-textured plastic everywhere.... and that's the S!! RS models are nowhere near as special as they used to be, by numbers or quality, the performance is there, for now, but still cheaply built 10 yr. engineered life max. All cars are like that now, but still I'd say Audi has fallen off from MB/AMG and even BMW/M which I personally have never been a big fan of, or should I say bottom of the big 3 for me.. I'm pretty sure any segment to segment match up b/w Audi, BMW, MB... Audi is probably going to be at the bottom, with some personal exceptions for me, i.e. I'd probably take a S8 over a top line BMW 7...maybe... but over a AMG S63, I don't think so, not even close. An S4 vs. a M4... I don't like Audi in that one either... at all. European RS6 here in states, maybe we'd have something to compete with AMG E and M5 but the S6/S5?? I don't think so. For me AMG is substantially ahead of S/RS and M by pretty far and all the way around = interior, body design and powertrain.

Pulling out of WEC/LeMans, for Audi - being what Audi was to LeMans for forever, is pretty much like saying we're not racing anymore. That Formula E series is lackluster at best, at least as of now IMO, and nowhere near the earthshaking storm-surge Audi produced when it brought its TDIs to LMP1. Sigh.... nostalgia of the days of seeing the ALMS P1 diesel Audis in perpetual tooth and nail street fights with the U.S. / Penske debuted P2 Porsche Spyders. Granted, VW group has shifted a lot of those racing assets to Porsche but still. How far we have fallen in road racing since those times that seem so not long ago. Audi is out of even LeMans, NASCAR took over IMSA/ALMS and made it a redneck sideshow... pitiful. The "auto industry" as we know it is doomed.... time to find a new hobby.

[fbatwork]

"The "auto industry" as we know it is doomed.... time to find a new hobby."

Or just look to older models and keep them alive. I still haven't found that URQ that checks all of my boxes (price being the big one) but...

[Aronis]

This thread is too depressing.

No one mentioned the trend toward full Auto Drive and No ability to drive the dam thing anymore! That is really where this is all heading. So performance and chassis dynamics will be a thing of the past and our GrandChildren will look at us and marvel saying "they used to let YOU drive the car?"

Mike

[mrdave]

Here's what I see happening in the next 10 years:
1. Big push towards Uber-like driverless transportation. You won't even need to own a car. Just order a ride on your phone and you can Snapchat your BFFs all the way to your destination. Kids these days don't even want to drive since their whole life is online anyway. (p.s. it's already happening (https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/31/daimler-will-build-self-driving-cars-for-uber/))
2. Phasing out fossil fuels, more electric. Although, Trump may slow that down a little.
3. That means that any auto company that wants to remain in business will need to produce low cost self-driving electric fleet vehicles. At some point it won't even make sense to produce manually operated cars any longer.
4. My main concern is that once the insurance companies (and lawmakers) see how much safer it is to not operate your own vehicle, what will happen to insurance rates? And vehicle taxes? And driving regulations? And roads?

Oh and then there's this concern: http://jalopnik.com/the-cia-has-looked-into-hacking-connected-vehicles-sinc-1793052458

[Aronis]

Cool, 'coal' burning cars. Nice idea.

[fbatwork]

Makes me shudder... Thank goodness I live in a land with snow, ice and a challenging environment for autonomous driving 1/2 the year.

[DHall1]

You will need to pry my steering wheels out my cold dead hands.

I can keep my cars running even if I have to use one as a parts car

[Cmnair]

One reason I went with the base Golf R with 6 MT with no DCC or DAP. Just a well setup machine with no settings and adjustments and with great feel and feedback (at least for a modern car). I think one of the few cars left that you feel like you are driving it with some involvement.

[vitalian]

I've been reading really good things about the RS 3 (5-cylinder turbo, 400 hp), which comes to the US this summer (I'm partial to smaller cars, my previous ride was a MINI Cooper S with a tune), but I'll be curious to see what the interior looks like. It seems like pretty much everyone is going cheaper on materials these days, which is disappointing. I love the feeling of luxury in my RS 6.

[SAF]

After a long history of running Audis, I've about given up. Waiting on an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio.

[DHall1]

Hey Scott

No kidding on the Alfa! That thing came right out of a black hole.

AoA is sleeping at the wheel for sure. RS content is MIA and nothing 75-100k. Even AMG has several choices under 100k that pack a punch.

Where is Audi?


After a long history of running Audis, I've about given up. Waiting on an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio.

[ZCD2.7T]

Interesting comments.

In my view, Audi has moved from being mostly an also-ran in the German "Big 3" 15-20 years ago to now being on equal footing overall. Whether it's performance, reliability, model range or whatever, Audi is in the best place it has ever been.

The cars routinely win comparison tests these days, and in addition the 58+ months of record-setting sales in the US without the benefit of lower transaction prices than BMW and Benz prove that Audi is on to something...

[BoiseAudi]

Never knew what these were SAF - saw one yesterday - http://i.imgur.com/ELUbG6e.jpg

[DHall1]

Yeah, that's the base model. Take a look on YouTube for the bad boy model.


Never knew what these were SAF - saw one yesterday - http://i.imgur.com/ELUbG6e.jpg

[DHall1]

I see the Kool-aid still flows for some of us. Lol

AoA is sleeping at the wheel. They are content selling xxx A3, A4s, Q5s. Period

[Turbowned]

Let's convince Audi to build a C7 RS6 saloon and sell it stateside. Let's all lie and say we'll buy them (I clearly cannot afford to buy one)

[DHall1]

Never going to happen.

We beg for any current production S or RS Avant and we all get the middle finger.

I tried the SQ5 with poor results. I'll never make that mistake again. Target income for the typical SQ5 buyer? 180k. Blah blah blah AoA. I don't even drive mine

As I sit here and watch E63 AMG wagons command 20k over the sedans and MB continue to supply wagons.

I guess we know what that means.



Let's convince Audi to build a C7 RS6 saloon and sell it stateside. Let's all lie and say we'll buy them (I clearly cannot afford to buy one)

[Cmnair]

The Alfa is great but might have to wait a couple of years for them to work out initial bugs etc. Plus you can only get them from clueless Fiat dealers. I don't think there is a manual transmission option in the Alfa for the US. The new biturbo RS5 looks promising but also only available with auto tranny.

[DHall1]

Yes the thrill of 2.9L thumping V6!!!!

lol

[Cmnair]

Twin turbo harkening back to the B5 days

[ZCD2.7T]

Yes the thrill of 2.9L thumping V6!!!!

lol

It will murder your RS6s in any contest of performance.

LOL that, speaking of Kool-Aid...

[ZCD2.7T]

The Alfa is great but might have to wait a couple of years for them to work out initial bugs etc. Plus you can only get them from clueless Fiat dealers. I don't think there is a manual transmission option in the Alfa for the US...

Exactly, and no, no manual trans.

[DHall1]

So glad you stopped by....you were coming down with a S6 the last time you posted here. I got something for ya alittle more apples to apples


It will murder your RS6s in any contest of performance.

LOL that, speaking of Kool-Aid...

[DHall1]

It's time to bash the 15yr old C5 RS6 platform again.

May it RIP

https://youtu.be/rz1V_piTsrc



https://youtu.be/rz1V_piTsrc

[Cmnair]

Yes the thrill of 2.9L thumping V6!!!!

lol

Are you referring to the Alfa or new RS5 since they are both 2.9l V6s

[ZCD2.7T]

I see the Kool-aid still flows for some of us...

Someone who has owned multiple examples of the same 15-year old car accusing others of drinking Kool-Aid is so ironic that it's hilarious, and also a little sad.

[hahnmgh63]

Was just at the factory for a tour a few weeks ago and I would say for at least ROW they are not "has beens". Audi is in it full steam. Gonna try for a Quattro GMBh tour in May but not sure if they give tours also. A lot of technology being used at the factory and a lot of attention to detail. Now, as far as N.A. goes, they will/may scale back here a bit, VAG as a whole except probably Porsche as they have the highest profit ratio right now.

[fbatwork]

It would be nice if they would bring more product stateside... But as long as they don't stop making 5 cylinder and V8's... We only have to wait 15 years to import into Canada... I like Kool aid, but on my terms.

[DHall1]

Interesting to note ROW to NA.

My finger has been pointed at AoA specifically for market decisions on US vehicles for my needs.

I tried the SQ5 as a Avant substitute and it just fails for me. That platform is cheap feeling and not well sorted from a product design perspective. There are many flaws in driving characteristics of the SQ5.

I have nothing against the S6, S7, S8 sedans but really I have mint RS6s that pretty much take that space. Two of my RS6s have been with me forever and kool aid or not the RS6 is a quality driving experience to this day.

So for my vehicle needs the current Audi's in NA are lacking and some have poorly engineered driving characteristics. Thus my topic at hand.


Was just at the factory for a tour a few weeks ago and I would say for at least ROW they are not "has beens". Audi is in it full steam. Gonna try for a Quattro GMBh tour in May but not sure if they give tours also. A lot of technology being used at the factory and a lot of attention to detail. Now, as far as N.A. goes, they will/may scale back here a bit, VAG as a whole except probably Porsche as they have the highest profit ratio right now.

[DHall1]

If all I cared about was brute speed and lap times a GTR would be in the garage.

I dont know know if I can own any 2.9L vehicle. RS5 or Alfa

[ZCD2.7T]

...I tried the SQ5 as a Avant substitute and it just fails for me. That platform is cheap feeling and not well sorted from a product design perspective. There are many flaws in driving characteristics of the SQ5...

Please expand on these points a bit, if you don't mind.

We we also own a Q5 (TDi) and to us, it feels extremely well put together and well judged from a design perspective...

[Cmnair]

If all I cared about was brute speed and lap times a GTR would be in the garage.

I dont know know if I can own any 2.9L vehicle. RS5 or Alfa

F40 was a 2.9l engine

[Cmnair]

So for my vehicle needs the current Audi's in NA are lacking and some have poorly engineered driving characteristics. Thus my topic at hand.

I get what you are saying... these newer cars are packed with technology and performance but there seems to be something missing.. level of involvement maybe? The RS6 was considered to have numb steering compared to the E39 M5 when it first came out, but a recent article I saw had favorable reviews of the RS6 hydraulic steering compared to the modern electric steering systems.

[eurovintage]

Unfortunately the trend is not driver friendly for active drivers, and is actually unsafe, just for the reason because people expect the car now to correct
them in all situations ! Which leads to even less attention on the road. My Noble M 400 has no Nannies (not even ABS) and only power assist steering.
Had chance to drive the Mc Laren and the 911 S (last model before turbo motors) and they both feel numb in comparison and way less fun.
Also the possibility of things going wrong are endless. Not that I am against technology in general, just not needed everywhere.
Good idea would be to replace all those cables with optic fiber, as the Volvo S 80 did. Saved 100 kg !
Ivan
2007 Noble M 400, 1958 Austin Healy BN6, 1994 Ford Taurus SHO 5 spd. manual (has ABS)

[paperchase]

I get what you are saying... these newer cars are packed with technology and performance but there seems to be something missing.. level of involvement maybe? The RS6 was considered to have numb steering compared to the E39 M5 when it first came out, but a recent article I saw had favorable reviews of the RS6 hydraulic steering compared to the modern electric steering systems.

The market is a bit depressing. The more I earn the less there is to spend it on. Very little moves me that doesn't push 6 figures and that's a used value. I recently test drove an S7 after reading about how receptive it is to tuning. It was a 2014 and it's an awful lot of car for the $50K asking but it did not stir my soul. The RS7 stirs my soul but it's out of my price range. Porsche moves me but the ones I can afford either have no or little warranty remaining and that scares me. And there are a bunch of new car enthusiasts clamoring for the P85 Tesla which tells me people are caring less and less about the driving experience. At least Porsche is bringing back a real 6 speed in the 911 Turbo GT3 which I'll never afford. Lately I've been rationalizing having an older mechanical German daily driver and a weekend only exotic.

[fbatwork]

Lexus has a new commercial talking about autonomous driving and suggesting that you should enjoy driving while you can!

It would be nice to see more of the products from ROW available in NAM...

[Aronis]

Want is ROW?

Mike

[fbatwork]

Sorry... rest of the world

[hahnmgh63]

Yea Mike, ROW is how most auto manufacturers call there cars that are not sold in N. America. There are some that are also specific to Japan, China, etc.. but no manufacturer runs through hoops and messes with their original cars as the N. American model, but of course it's a huge market so they do it.

[DHall1]

Unfortunately the more we buy China products the bigger that market becomes for the big 3 German car makers.

China makes the US look like a third world market to Audi.

[Cmnair]

The market is a bit depressing. The more I earn the less there is to spend it on. Very little moves me that doesn't push 6 figures and that's a used value. I recently test drove an S7 after reading about how receptive it is to tuning. It was a 2014 and it's an awful lot of car for the $50K asking but it did not stir my soul. The RS7 stirs my soul but it's out of my price range. Porsche moves me but the ones I can afford either have no or little warranty remaining and that scares me. And there are a bunch of new car enthusiasts clamoring for the P85 Tesla which tells me people are caring less and less about the driving experience. At least Porsche is bringing back a real 6 speed in the 911 Turbo GT3 which I'll never afford. Lately I've been rationalizing having an older mechanical German daily driver and a weekend only exotic.

Agreed...all the remotely desirable cars are way out of my price range. I went with the Golf R 6MT because it offered the best combination of involvement, power and usability for my DD needs (AWD was a requirement). I would have gone with an older car (perhaps a C4 S6 or even a nicely sorted B5 S4) but maintaining two older cars would not be reasonable for me at this stage of my life.

[Aronis]

I was looking at the new S5, don't care for the hood design, but I'd have to see one in person.

Still would like an RS5.......

Mike

[ben916]

I have to agree with Dave on this one:

The current RS badging is, in my opinion, rather lackluster, boring, pedestrian, and soulless.
The 03 RS6 and several versions of the RS4 were "a bomb arching in" yet subtle at the same time.

As DuckWingDuck once said "it is all of nothing" to which he explained that it isn't the fastest, the quickest, the lowest, the lightest, etc etc etc.
With the RS6 being none of the above, I knew coming into ownership that it was exactly that and that is EXACTLY what I wanted.

The current quiver of Audi (minus the R8) are something like an 4 cylinder 1984 Ford Mustang: yeah its a Mustang and it looks decent; gutless motor, cheap shit interior, reused Pinto parts, craptastic 4 cylinder motor, possibly rebadged Fiesta, wont get out of its own way because of terrible power under hood/bonnet. Cars for the sheeple...

The A4 became the size of an A6.
The A3 is now the new A4.
The A5 is a fat wide slow pig.
The S5 is a slightly faster turbo fat wide pig.
The S6 is.... well.... awesome...

The RS6 is .... 14yo and still sweet!

The A7/S7/RS7 .... Please remove the designer from the gene pool... just because it's somewhat quick, doesn't been it has a soul.

Q3/5/7 .... yawn to the mall crawlers... There once was a V12 diesel twin turbo... never to be seen in the USA


I know the EXACT CASA person GRANDE to get in contact with if I ever get the bug again...

[DHall1]

^^ Ben...We moved to the big city of Mesa. North side....5 minutes riding to some of the best Mtn bike trails in the valley.

:-)

6+car garage w parking for the motorhome and car trailer in city limits w no HOA. Ask me how I pulled that off. Ha

I guess AoA has less to offer as you move up the model lines. I like the S6 but it's too much like the RS6s that I already have. AoA is content selling xxx A3s, A4s, Q5s and the lower model S versions of the same. How is that exciting? Q5s now made in Mexico? I'm clearly not buying any Audi made in Mexico. Period

So does Audi lose this loyal customer to AMG because the E63 wagon is still out there? Or do I go ahead and convert my own C5 RS6 Avant? I have the donor car ready to go. Do I import a C5 RS6 to Canada and pay someone to drive it across the border?

If we don't plug into the S6, S7, S8.....which are all very similar....then AoA really has nothing of quality for the US consumer. Why choose 3 S model high line sedans and not offer even one Avant? Blooming idiots and the NA market manager should be shot.

Toyota lost me 20 yrs ago when they dropped the Supra twin turbo then there were a few years of SC400 and LS400s before the Audi's. Now at that fork in the road again.

[paperchase]

I was looking at the new S5, don't care for the hood design, but I'd have to see one in person.

Still would like an RS5.......

Mike

If only it had a manual and the twin turbo V8 from the S6 or S7.

[Turbowned]

Upcoming RS5 will do 0-62 in 3.9 seconds; holy crap!!!

I will say now that Audi has gone more mainstream, their special models seem less special. Especially if you spend any time in a major suburban area; in Boston I would see an RS5 or RS7 at least once a week. I still see RS6's once in a while albeit considerably less frequently; I think I have seen maybe five or six since buying my car in 2013. I feel the same with BMW's; there's an M3 or M5 sighting almost weekly. My mind tells me I should buy an Aston Martin if I want something really rare... still can't find that elusive '07/08 DB9 Sports Pack with manual trans...

[ZCD2.7T]

Upcoming RS5 will do 0-62 in 3.9 seconds; holy crap!!!...

I wouldn't be surprised if it tests at more like 3.7, hella quick either way.

[Cmnair]

I have not seen a single RS6 in my area in 5 years but arcleast 2 RS7s

[4everRS]

More bad news this morning

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSKBN16M0XP

[ben916]

More bad news this morning

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSKBN16M0XP

Saw that...

[kismetcapitan]

I'm going to guess that this diesel fiasco killed Audi's endurance racing program?

I'll be honest; I'm far more concerned about how this might affect Ducati and Ducati's MotoGP/World Superbike racing budgets. It's unlikely I'll be shopping for an Audi (or perhaps any car at all) anytime soon, but I buy a new Ducati every two years. They've reached very un-Italian levels of reliability, low maintenance, and build quality; it'd be a shame to see that all fall apart.

[Aronis]

Dam, you are reading my mind.(response to the RS5 comment above) (I have not issue with a nice dual clutch auto though).

Mike

[DHall1]

I guess Jaguar listened

2018 XF Sportbrake

AoA what a bunch of a$$hats

Out goes the SQ5



Never going to happen.

We beg for any current production S or RS Avant and we all get the middle finger.

I tried the SQ5 with poor results. I'll never make that mistake again. Target income for the typical SQ5 buyer? 180k. Blah blah blah AoA. I don't even drive mine

As I sit here and watch E63 AMG wagons command 20k over the sedans and MB continue to supply wagons.

I guess we know what that means.

[kismetcapitan]

not gonna lie, to me Mercedes has the most compelling lineup currently of the big 3 German luxury makes. BMW disappoints every time I test drive one, no matter how much I want to love it. And ironically it's the AMG cars that have the sound and edginess that I'd have expected from an RS model.

My concerns with Dieselgate remain apart from Audi's product planning - watching 24 hours of Le Mans last weekend felt truly empty with Audi missing. And the rumors that VAG is exploring the possibility of selling off Ducati...their quality and product lineup has improved dramatically since Audi took over ownership. Ducati's flagship superbikes were once vicious machines that really only ran well on the track; in the city random sudden stalling and left-hand cramps from the racing dry clutch used to be part of the "Italian character" inherent in the riding experience. My Audi-era Ducatis have every bit of potency on the track yet are perfectly usable as city commuters, and my 200+ horsepower Panigale has been as reliable as a Toyota Camry. No Ducatista wants to see Ducati sold off.

In any event, my opinion is that Audi's lineup would be just as staid without the diesel scandal. Much has to do with styling, and we can blame the Koreans (well other Koreans, not me lol) for that - Kia poached Audi's Peter Schreyer (the man who penned the design of our RS6s) and whoever took over hasn't really inspired me visually. Kia's remain mediocre cars but they look pretty decent now, so to me it's plainly evident where the styling talent went.

[DHall1]

Uhhhh

Kia Stinger GT

All I need to say



not gonna lie, to me Mercedes has the most compelling lineup currently of the big 3 German luxury makes. BMW disappoints every time I test drive one, no matter how much I want to love it. And ironically it's the AMG cars that have the sound and edginess that I'd have expected from an RS model.

My concerns with Dieselgate remain apart from Audi's product planning - watching 24 hours of Le Mans last weekend felt truly empty with Audi missing. And the rumors that VAG is exploring the possibility of selling off Ducati...their quality and product lineup has improved dramatically since Audi took over ownership. Ducati's flagship superbikes were once vicious machines that really only ran well on the track; in the city random sudden stalling and left-hand cramps from the racing dry clutch used to be part of the "Italian character" inherent in the riding experience. My Audi-era Ducatis have every bit of potency on the track yet are perfectly usable as city commuters, and my 200+ horsepower Panigale has been as reliable as a Toyota Camry. No Ducatista wants to see Ducati sold off.

In any event, my opinion is that Audi's lineup would be just as staid without the diesel scandal. Much has to do with styling, and we can blame the Koreans (well other Koreans, not me lol) for that - Kia poached Audi's Peter Schreyer (the man who penned the design of our RS6s) and whoever took over hasn't really inspired me visually. Kia's remain mediocre cars but they look pretty decent now, so to me it's plainly evident where the styling talent went.