ideas? cleared and it's back

[EINHORN]

3 Faults Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 001 - - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 001 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
17819 - Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 2
P1411 - 002 - Insufficient Flow - MIL ON
Readiness: 0000 0000

[lswing]

Coil plug, SAI leak...single cylinder leads me to plug, swap plugs.

[ttboost]

Yep...make 1 change at a time...move a coil pack around, as that's the easiest...if it doesn't change...either swap plugs or just change them all, if it hasn't been done lately......

[EINHORN]

nothing has been done in awhile. Any plug rec's?

[mrdave]

Stock? NGK PFR7Q

Although I think I'm going to give the Denso IK20TT a try next.

[EINHORN]

Going with stock and an 8 pack of coil packs just to be on safe side. OEM on CPs?

[HPO-DK]

I had the same problem on mine some time ago with misfire just nr 8,i changed the plugs and problem was gone,the sad thing was when i went to replace
the plugs i damage a coilpack on nr 3 so i needed a new one for that,I just went for a random from a sparepart pusher no problems in that,not oem
Car is stock

[nubcake]

You can use TFSI coils (e.g. 077 905 115 T), optionally with 077 905 390 adapters.
However, for best longevity you'd also want to mod the binary. These run with lower dwell times, so the stock settings will put extra (unneeded) strain on them.

[EINHORN]

Thanks all. ordered stock aka oem replacements. Driving the TT in interim, awaiting arrival of parts. Trying to hook up the (i know old school) hacked phatbox to the recently and can bus emulated concert II in the TT.

[rs6BC]

What recommendation for R8 packs?

[Aronis]

Check Cam Phase numbers........forgot which block....will not trip CEL by it self, but can cause misfire in one cylinder......

[EINHORN]

Coil packs, plugs done misfire gone (fingers crossed)

[Aronis]

nice....

[EINHORN]

So>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's back. Haven't had a chance to VAG it yet but the CEL/MIL is back. Great! TT's going in for fender and some dent extraction on Monday. Will check tomorrow 1st thing. Arrgh!

On the upside, mileage seems better though.

[EINHORN]

8 faults found
17772 - Cylinder 4 Ignition Circuit
P1364 004 Open Circuit Intermittent
17769 - Cylinder 3 Ignition Circuit
P1361 004 Open Circuit Intermittent
17766 - Clylinder 2 Ignition Circuit
P1358 004 Open Circuit Intermittent
16684 - Random multiple cylinder misfire Detected
P0300-001 Intermittent
16688 -Cylinder 4
P0304 -001 Misfire Detected- Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 001 Misfire Detected- Intermittent
16686 - Cylinder 2
P0302 - 001 Misfire Detected- Intermittent
17819 Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 2
P1411 - 02 Insufficient Flow -Mil On

Ok now what? SAI gone?

[lswing]

You mean your SAI is removed and coded out? Be clearer:) SAI is still there, just a leak...

With multiple cylinders showing misfire on the same side, you know what's coming...cam adjusters failed/failing...specifically bad on that one side. I'm sure you've seen the recent threads discussing just replacing pads, still a 15 hour job.

[Aronis]

You mean your SAI is removed and coded out? Be clearer:) SAI is still there, just a leak...

With multiple cylinders showing misfire on the same side, you know what's coming...cam adjusters failed/failing...specifically bad on that one side. I'm sure you've seen the recent threads discussing just replacing pads, still a 15 hour job.

Look up a few posts!


The cam phase can be read with VAG com, I don't recall which block, but will look up. If the tensioners are out of spec this can happen. The range is -6 to +6 degrees, mine was -12 on one and plus 7 on the other.

Mike

[Aronis]

ISWING POSTED THIS:

"Hope it's not a cam adjust pad. You had those done a few years back though? Look at blocks 70-74, how do your cam adjust degrees look at idle? I have a few threads on the numbers and details.

Edit, blocks 91-93. http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/32...ht=#post283409"

those are the blocks to check!

Mike

[Aronis]

Just like the DRC, I am call this one....ALL THE CAM TENSIONERS ON ALL THE RS6's are going to fail.....Heat, Oil, Metal on plastic at high speeds, and TIME.....BANG...

Buy a pair now, $750 each......

Mike

[EINHORN]

Ok, SAI still there in the car, no coding out. Already have and was the discoverer of the Blauparts kit with the plastic bits, do not yet have the cam tensioners, just the guides at this point.

Would have done the logging except the computer decided to lose all of the usb ports this morning which makes VAGCOMing a little difficult. Uninstall and rebooting finally fixed that after figuring our what that problem was as the VaG wouldn't work in the TT or the Q5. Initially thought the dongle had decided to check out.

[EINHORN]

Mike:

BTW OEM 685 now at ECS free shipping.

[EINHORN]

ISWING POSTED THIS:

"Hope it's not a cam adjust pad. You had those done a few years back though? Look at blocks 70-74, how do your cam adjust degrees look at idle? I have a few threads on the numbers and details.

Edit, blocks 91-93. http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/32...ht=#post283409"

those are the blocks to check!

Mike

Wrong thread here. Leads to a Bentley GT post.

[Aronis]

Mike:

BTW OEM 685 now at ECS free shipping.

Nice....I paid $720 at dealer, knocked down 10% or something like that...LOL and no shipping, I picked them up...I ship to myself for free.

Mike

[EINHORN]

So Saturday morning cam chain tensioner gurus. Here's the log of einhorn. Help, do I have $1500 worth of parts and a similar amount of labor in my future?:


<tbody>

Group A:
'091



Group B:
'092



Group C:
'093







Engine Speed
Engine Load
Adjustment
Adjustment
Engine Speed
Engine Load
Adjustment
Adjustment
Engine Speed
Engine Load
Phase Position
Phase Position



TIME
(G28)

Status
Bank 1
TIME
(G28)

Status
Bank 2
TIME
(G28)

Bank 1
Bank 2


Marker
STAMP
/min
%

°KW
STAMP
/min
%

°KW
STAMP
/min
%
°KW
°KW



0.29
760
20.3
OFF
-1
0.46
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
0.11
760
20.3
-7
-9



0.8
760
20.3
OFF
-1
0.97
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
0.63
760
19.5
-7
-9



1.32
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
1.5
760
20.3
OFF
0
1.14
760
19.5
-7
-9



1.83
760
20.3
OFF
-2
2
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
1.66
760
20.3
-7
-9



2.35
760
19.5
OFF
-1
2.52
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
2.17
760
19.5
-7
-9



2.86
760
20.3
OFF
-1
3.03
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
2.69
760
20.3
-7
-9



3.38
760
20.3
OFF
-1
3.55
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
3.2
760
20.3
-7
-9



3.9
760
20.3
OFF
-1
4.07
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
3.73
760
20.3
-7
-9



4.41
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
4.59
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
4.25
760
19.5
-7
-9



4.94
760
19.5
OFF
-1
5.12
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
4.77
760
19.5
-7
-9



5.47
760
20.3
OFF
-1.5
5.65
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
5.3
760
20.3
-7
-9



5.99
760
20.3
OFF
-2
6.16
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
5.82
760
20.3
-7
-9



6.52
760
19.5
OFF
-1
6.7
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
6.33
760
19.5
-7
-9



7.03
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
7.22
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
6.86
760
19.5
-7
-9



7.55
760
20.3
OFF
-1
7.72
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
7.38
760
20.3
-7
-9



8.07
760
19.5
OFF
-1
8.25
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
7.89
760
19.5
-7
-9



8.58
760
20.3
OFF
-1.5
8.75
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
8.41
760
20.3
-7
-9



10.13
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
10.3
760
19.5
OFF
0
9.96
760
19.5
-7
-9



10.67
760
20.3
OFF
-1
10.85
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
10.49
760
20.3
-7
-9



11.2
760
20.3
OFF
-1.5
11.37
760
20.3
OFF
0
11.02
760
20.3
-7
-9



11.72
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
11.89
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
11.54
760
19.5
-7
-9



12.23
760
19.5
OFF
-1
12.41
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
12.05
760
19.5
-7
-9



12.75
760
20.3
OFF
-1.5
12.92
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
12.59
760
19.5
-7
-9



13.28
760
20.3
OFF
-1
13.44
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
13.1
760
20.3
-7
-9



13.78
760
19.5
OFF
-1
13.96
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
13.61
760
19.5
-7
-9



14.3
760
19.5
OFF
-2
14.47
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
14.13
760
19.5
-7
-9



14.83
760
19.5
OFF
-1
15
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
14.65
760
19.5
-7
-9



15.34
760
19.5
OFF
-1
15.51
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
15.17
760
20.3
-7
-9



15.85
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
16.02
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
15.68
760
19.5
-7
-9



16.37
760
19.5
OFF
-1
16.56
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
16.19
760
19.5
-7
-9



16.92
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
17.09
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
16.73
760
19.5
-7
-9



17.43
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
17.6
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
17.27
760
19.5
-7
-9



17.94
760
19.5
OFF
-1
18.11
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
17.77
760
19.5
-7
-9



18.46
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
18.64
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
18.28
760
19.5
-7
-9



18.97
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
19.14
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
18.8
760
19.5
-7
-9



19.49
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
19.66
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
19.32
760
19.5
-7
-9



20
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
20.18
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
19.83
760
19.5
-7
-9



20.52
760
19.5
OFF
-1
20.7
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
20.36
760
19.5
-7
-9



21.04
760
19.5
OFF
-1
21.21
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
20.86
760
19.5
-7
-9



21.55
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
21.74
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
21.38
760
19.5
-7
-9



22.07
760
19.5
OFF
-1
22.24
760
19.5
OFF
-1
21.9
760
19.5
-7
-9



22.59
760
20.3
OFF
-1.5
22.77
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
22.42
760
19.5
-7
-9



23.13
760
19.5
OFF
-1
23.31
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
22.95
760
19.5
-7
-9



23.66
760
19.5
OFF
-1
23.83
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
23.49
760
19.5
-7
-9



24.18
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
24.35
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
24
760
19.5
-7
-9



24.69
760
19.5
OFF
-1
24.86
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
24.52
760
19.5
-7
-9



25.2
760
19.5
OFF
-1
25.36
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
25.03
760
19.5
-7
-9



25.71
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
25.88
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
25.53
760
19.5
-7
-9



26.22
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
26.4
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
26.05
760
19.5
-7
-9



26.74
760
19.5
OFF
-1
26.91
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
26.57
760
19.5
-7
-9



27.26
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
27.43
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
27.09
760
19.5
-7
-9



27.77
760
19.5
OFF
-1
27.95
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
27.6
760
19.5
-7
-9



28.31
760
19.5
OFF
-1.5
28.49
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
28.13
760
19.5
-7
-9



28.84
760
19.5
OFF
-1
29.01
760
19.5
OFF
-0.5
28.66
760
19.5
-7
-9



29.35
760
19.5
OFF
-1
29.52
760
19.5
OFF
-1
29.18
760
19.5
-7
-9



29.86
760
20.3
OFF
-1.5
30.03
760
20.3
OFF
-0.5
29.69
760
19.5
-7
-9



















</tbody>

[lswing]

I think you're fine with the phase positions being -7 and -9, meaning pads are in place/not broken and cam adjusters aren't having to try and push out of where they should be at idle.

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/32957-Blinking-MIL-on-running-rough-where-to-start-with-repair

[EINHORN]

So leak? Deceased SAI? >

17819 Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 2
P1411 - 02 Insufficient Flow -Mil On

[hahnmgh63]

Normal position -3.0' to 6.0' KW
Shifted position: 16.0' to 25.0' KW

[lswing]

So leak? Deceased SAI? >

17819 Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 2
P1411 - 02 Insufficient Flow -Mil On

Had the same code last year, just a leak. Took 30 minutes for shop to find and fix...

[EINHORN]

Normal position -3.0' to 6.0' KW
Shifted position: 16.0' to 25.0' KW

?so?ok?yes/no

[Aronis]

The numbers I recalled were -6 to +6, but I double checked in manual. it's -3 to +6 as said above. My car showed
-12 and +7 at idle and the cam tensioners were fried.

1775117752

I'd consider looking in oil pain vs under valve cover? I found parts of the shoes in the oil pain, so that's a 'quick' way to look beside taking off the valve covers. The seal on the Oil pain would have to be re-done, it's a paste in a tube not a gasket. That is where the broken parts end up. Looking at the cam tensioners from above can only yield a false sense of security. I'd be concerned that the numbers are out of the normal range.

17754

[Aronis]

note in the text shows this:

17755

[Aronis]

Had the same code last year, just a leak. Took 30 minutes for shop to find and fix...

Iswing, where was the leak? My guy said he smoke tested and did not find a leak. LOL. I think it takes 20 minutes just to take the air cleaner off! :)

Do you think the pump could be weak and not supplying quite enough flow to yield an intermittent code?

Mike

[hahnmgh63]

What Aronis said but you should also do a lot and rev it up a little like lswing's above so you see the readings with the solenoid's on. Yours log is just at idle. Your probably going to have to take it on the road to put a load on it for it to kick the solenoids over.

[EINHORN]

Really thanks to everyone, Noob appreciates. Taking her for a ride shortly.

[Aronis]

I had another clue....my engine was running VERY rough LOL....(I know that is cheating....)!

Now it runs soooooo nice......more power......but that dam Secondary Air Pump Error LOL.......I'll fix that soon enough.

Mike

[EINHORN]

Logged during drive, for some reason couldn't figure put how to save it. I didn't see much change from my numbers above. Pretty consistent at idle 0 - 5, both banks, under load as high as 21.5, both sides, the negative 7 and 9 persist in block 93. So park it, buy the good tensioners, prepare for wallet draining?

[Aronis]

You can take a look at least on drivers side.....might see clear evidence of pad wear, it's the bottom that you can not see unless you remove the thing. How many miles on the car?

Mike

[EINHORN]

90k, just barely.

[Aronis]

Unless there is some other cause of the problem, I am not sure what else it could be, then you don't have much choice. You would be replacing the Cam Chains also, and the 52 bolts as well as the seals.

[EINHORN]

thanks, I think. BTW, mid atlantic audi has the tensioners at 653.

[EINHORN]

Mike do you have the part numbers for this stuff. Tried to PM you but box is full.

[Aronis]

Sorry, did not know my inbox was so full :) explains why I never get a new messages.

Camshaft Tensioners

ECS site:

Bank 1 to 4 077109088P $685.91
Bank 5 to 8 077109087P $685.91

aftermarket ones are $374.00 I could not verify if these are made by the same manufacture as the Audi part. Most of the time they would be listed as "OEM supplier" implying made at the same place. I cannot image that the 'aftermarket' ones are made by some other company since tooling up to make a limited use product like that would be CRAZY. But I did not want to risk it. Both had same warrantee.

I went with Audi parts right from Audi dealer, paid $720 if I recall...The cam tensioners and bolts came in 1 day from supply house in New Jersey. No idea of the supply available. That part is common to all the Audi 4.2 V8's since 1999. Last Revision "P" was 1/1/2007.

Cam Chains at ECS:
Audi part: 058109229B $142.91
Aftermarket: $29.95...yikes..why the difference? Audi ones are Special?...

I got them from pelican, same price, went OEM manufacture without Audi name.

Kit with all the seals including valve cover gaskets.
Blauparts.com site: Pretty nice kit and a good price.

http://www.blauparts.com/blau-news/20150114-new-product-audi-rs6-cam-chain-tensioner-valve-cover-gasket-kit

$139, on sale. LOL I paid $149.

The Bolts, don't forget the Magic 52 bolts! I got them from Audi $60 or so. Local VW dealer had 10 in stock and wanted $2.50 each.

Runs about 15 or so hours of labor if not screwing around. The passenger side requires carefully moving the coolant pipe since it is in the way of getting the valve cover off.

Of course consider timing belt service if due and a new serpentine belt and idlers, "since your there."

Mike

[lswing]

Logged during drive, for some reason couldn't figure put how to save it. I didn't see much change from my numbers above. Pretty consistent at idle 0 - 5, both banks, under load as high as 21.5, both sides, the negative 7 and 9 persist in block 93. So park it, buy the good tensioners, prepare for wallet draining?

Your car should be running like complete crap yes? If not, maybe it's not the cam tensioner pads. Remember, you can just replace pads for $30 parts. My car basically wouldn't drive with failed pads. You're getting the flashing CEL right? Maybe some other electrical issue to the plugs causing misfires?

[EINHORN]

1st, thanks Mike.
lswing:

No. Car is running great. Noticed slight misfire when cold started after a four day rest. NO flashing CEL, just on. Will clear, and stay off for a couple of days. Then slight misfire that clears quickly. Seems to get better gas mileage with new plugs and coilpacks.

[EINHORN]

trying to figure whether I can continue to drive it. TT going in for fender paint and some odds and ends.