The maintenance blues

[midwest1275]

So I thought buying a clean title, low mile (52K), and well-maintained RS would be the way to go. Not the case. In the 15 months I have owned it I have put on barely 9000 miles, haven't beat on it, no hard launches, no over heating, etc. All of the maintenance issues clearly laid out in the forum that I read over and over before purchasing have materialized, and quickly. First it was the brakes, then the front suspension/bushings, then the valve covers, then CV boots, then the camshaft seals, then the EGT's, then the DRC, and now the TC/possibly the tranny. They all went out. I'm glad I went with my gut and got the warranty. Some of this has been covered so I'm almost even with the pricey $5500 I ponied up for the 3 year warranty (Zurich-standard plan). In retrospect, I probably should have bought a higher mile RS that had already been sorted out. I don't think low miles RS's help at all, in fact there will probably be more to do when you get it in your hands.

Today's scan shows 4 faults:

16826 -EVAP Emission Control sys PO442-001-Small leak-Mil on

16389-EVAP System P0455-001- Large Leak detected-Mil on

17125 - Torque Converter Clutch P0741-003-Stuck OFF/ No power being transferred

18161 - Tiptronic Switch (F189) P1753-003-Implausible Signal-Intermittent

So I think the first 2 show that I need to replace a "purge valve" near the gas tank. Is that right? The third shows that my TC is toast. And the fourth, I'm not sure what that means, as my Tip is shifting/working fine.

Luckily this Zurich contract has pretty strong coverage for the TC and transmission. We'll see on Monday if they will replace both. Tranny is slipping a bit.

I searched but I couldn't find a website or email for Tozo. He seems to be the man for this. Can anyone share that with me? I'd at least like to get an upgraded TC to put in.

[Aronis]

The EVAP leaks can be very simple. The small leak is a dirty seal on the gas cap. You can clean the filler tube lip and also the gasket on the gas cap.

There are several vac tubes which come off of various components in the SAI pump system which just need to be popped back on.

"The Clutch Stuck Off" is bad.

The switch is usually a dirty connector on the wire harness, very common on 13 year old cars.....same if you get an Airbag warning, disconnect it, clean with contact cleaner and you're set.


Mike

[lswing]

What Mike said^^^

Exactly as you stated though, all those parts wear or fail. Did you get an early VIN model, what is your VIN? the TC usually fails on them.

I'll dig up TOZO's info.

[midwest1275]

Thanks for the clarification. Also the sneaky/resolder fix for the EGT's is still working. No code on that. I have an early VIN model. Tranny/TC in it are the originals. I have had a tune for the past 9000 miles. Been easy on the throttle.

[lswing]

Thanks for the clarification. Also the sneaky/resolder fix for the EGT's is still working. No code on that. I have an early VIN model. Tranny/TC in it are the originals. I have had a tune for the past 9000 miles. Been easy on the throttle.

Yep, sounds about right. The TC will fail even on stock tune, bad seal in the early ones. Get the new TC and trans put in and you should be good for 100k if not driven too hard.

[DHall1]

Did someone say early vin transmission failure at 50k?

[lswing]

Did someone say early vin transmission failure at 50k?

It's all rumor...nothing to see here.

[ttboost]

Did someone say early vin transmission failure at 50k?

Hmmm, my transmission if fine...oh wait...wrong forum...sorry....

[lswing]

Hmmm, my transmission if fine...oh wait...wrong forum...sorry....

Sure it is...how's the interior built like Legoland?

[DHall1]

Mine are all good too.

And i have a built 517 trans in the wings.

:rs6kiss:

Making turbo upgrade plans and 517 to go in #2. Project 11.99


Hmmm, my transmission if fine...oh wait...wrong forum...sorry....

[midwest1275]

So I figured I would give a little update after the big refresh.

I think I now know why members are selling their RS6's after a 6 speed swap. You dump tons of money in and it's always something else that starts to break.

So I'm at approx 1600 miles post-refresh now. When it went into the shop it had about 62k miles on it, clear title, and recent full eval from the Audi Dealership giving it a clear bill of health and stating it barely needed any maintenance.

This is the list of things I had done at a local indy shop:
New transmission & TC- $10,000 (warranty covered it). Only TC code, tranny was prob on the beginnings of its way out.
Wagner IC's w/hose kit- $1,940 ($1700+$240 to install while engine was out). Originals were filled with Black sludge and were leaking.
Full timing belt kit ($650+$750 to install kit while engine was out). Not quite due yet, but wanted to get it done.
Both front O2 sensors ($350ish? for both and $120 for install while engine was out). No codes, preventative
Both EGT sensors ($515 for both and $120 for install while the engine was out)*Sneaky soldering fix was still working but decided to go new.
Diverter Valve and N75 ($200 for both no install charge). Preventative
Coolant sensor/retaining clip & alternator voltage regulator (parts were cheap, no charge for install while the engine was out). Preventative
Bufkin pipe ($30 of eBay for pipe & $480 for install charge, they provided gaskets-engine was out). No leak, preventative.
Auxiliary radiators were replaced ($460 for both & $120 for install with engine out). These were just beginning to leak. These took forever to come from Germany.
All four tires Michelin tires needed to be replaced due to cracks and beginning of rot (Another reason to avoid low mile RS6's, especially ones stored in bad weather states-Minnesota).
Got 4 new Michelin Pilot Super Sports for approx $1100 installed through tirerack. (255/35/19)


There were alot of small exhaust gaskets and other minor bits that they fixed no charge

Got the car out, but it was running a little rough. Brought back in and they tightened up the exhaust and then it was running 100%.

For a minute I had the perfect 4 door sleeper that I always wanted. Car handled great with new Michelins, Hotchkis, and Koni's. Transmission was much better (but with some issues, still clunky, not always smooth) and the power was strong and the throttle response was sooo much better (no leaky IC's).

Then it started throwing TRANSMISSION CODES and going into limp mode. Apparently a sensor that's involved with the tiptronic shifting was intermittently going out. Great. Then the car started running horrible and the brake pedal felt like mush and braking was bad. Then the left rear window would barely go up. Then the front window started fogging when running letting me know that the heater core was going out.

It's like this car was laughing and saying "Nice try buddy, you will never fix me".

So the main culprit was a brake booster vacuum pump (part 058133753B). Which is of course easily accessible when the engine is out. But now that I had it all torn apart and put back together it needed to be redone. They were able to replace it by taking the head off of the engine to get to this part. There goes another $2000 out of pocket for that job. Once they put the pump on the car, it ran great, and braking was 100%. I highly recommend for anybody doing an engine out job to preventively replace this part, it's less than $30.

So now that all this been done, I'm kind of over this car. In 1.5 years of ownership I have had to put quite a bit more (replaced DRC, stereo upgrade, full brake job, cam seals, sway bars, valve cover gaskets, vacuum leaks, etc) just to be operational. Warranty has helped with quite a bit of this. But the car has still been out of commission for me. It is just shocking that a low mile and well maintained (with documentation proving this) RS is so unreliable. To have to put the worth of the car in maintenance in the 1.5 years of owning it, is just ridiculous.

So at this moment the car is amazing, but I'm always wincing waiting for something else to go wrong. Which it will....

[ttboost]

LOL...laughing with you, not at you...

[DHall1]

I have put 35k on my Avus late vin car over the years. Been to the dealer 1 time in over 9 years of ownership for the DRC recall. No other failures

I have put 55k on my Daytona early vin car. Been to the dealer 1 time for the transmission on Fidelity's dime. No other failures

I have put 5k on my other Daytona early vin car. Never went to the dealer for anything and I only performed a couple of service items.

I just purchased yet another RS6. Time will tell.

I hear your frustration and maybe your car was treated well? But you purchased it sight unseen and only had PPI done. A PPI is not the best method on these cars. In most cases.

My latest RS6 was serviced by a Audi master tech but still had several issues that were missed causing a lack of performance and other sorted problems. Most techs will not go the extra mile and verify/data log and ensure proper performance. If no codes..that's good enough. Big problem if you want top performance from one of these cars. Ha

[midwest1275]

Glad to hear you have had such good luck with your cars. Were they all sorted out before you purchased them? The only way I can see anyone having trouble free miles is when the previous owner spent the $$ to dial in the usual problem areas. I think with the low mileage ones like mine (got it with 52k miles) you are just lining up to take care of all of the maintenance that was never done. Also, if you are providing the labor and have a cheap source for parts that appears to be a way to live with these cars and not go broke. The level of maintenance these need is ridiculous for what they are worth now.

[DHall1]

I have owned from 20k

from 30k

from 50k

from 113k

and now from 147k

20 and 30k cars were mint stock examples. One of them currently at 88k. 1 trip to the repair shop period everything else was routine maint. Ditto for the 20k car

yes the 113 and 140k cars had some repairs done but that didn't stop me after I personally inspected them

[Other_Erik]

I bought mine from Tech_Gurru (former service writer for Audi of Portland) - picked up June 2013 with 124,5xx miles.

In the past 11,8xx miles I've put north of $17k into maintenance and another ~$8500 into damage from a pothole at 4mph (to be fair, it was a big pothole, just full of water so it blended with the rest of the pavement). All of the 17k has been routine type of maintenance and a good chunk of that was at a shop that cuts me an awesome deal on labor rates for bringing them a good number of referrals. Add to that the fact that I've got maintenance records from day one, and you'd think it would be an easy sell at KBB value adjusted for the R badge - I've had this thing up for sale since late April and have had maybe 2 serious inquiries in that time, neither of which panned out.

Meanwhile, I'm shelling out for insurance and local property taxes, and the odd repair to keep it tip-top for the next owner... analysis says I should've traded it in on my new vehicle and just taken the loss then, even with the trade-in offer coming in at $11k, I'd still be doing better overall than if I get $15k today. What a shame. Then I see horror stories like this one, and look through the forsale lists on cars.com - 103k miles with zero maintenance records sold for $13k and will probably need another 8-10k to get set straight, 46k miles with records sold for $27k, 71k miles in non-running condition sold for $12k, even the part-out wreckers are selling at $9-12k depending on airbag deployment. This has really soured me to RS6 ownership - I paid a premium for maintenance records and being well-sorted, and I'm not seeing any of that back.

O_E

[makaveli42]

$750 to install the timing belt WHILE THE ENGINE IS OUT?!?? My Indy shop charged $300 with the engine will in! Some of those install prices are absurd IMO since the engine was already out and very easily accessible

[midwest1275]

Yeah the $750 for the timing belt install was a bit high, but they did the full kit plus a few extras I added in there. Since they battled hard to get the tranny/TC covered and replaced at no cost (along w/other items that popped up) I was feeling pretty generous.

[Aronis]

Stealers price it that way also. I asked about a TB service if I had them pull the engine to fix the oil leak. They quoted me the same price I had paid for the last timing belt service (without an engine pull). I called them on the difference and they had not answer. They quoted $4500 minimum just to pull the engine, and then from there who knows. I paid 12k to have it done by my Independent mechanic, so God knows what the dealer would have charged me.

If they have the engine out to fix a leak, and you ask for an oil change, they will charge you the full oil change price (even though they have to empty the oil to take the friggen engine out of the car and fix the leak).

Thus the name "Stealers"

LOL

Mike

[kismetcapitan]

just had the car in to fix the ABS/TC unit, and to track down an oil leak I could smell, but damned leak wouldn't leak enough to leave a trace before burning off. they found the oil leak, and in doing so found the cam tensioner to be dying. Rebuilt the front axles - the boots had cracked. One would think that if we can put men in space, we can make a front axle CV boot that won't crack....so a quick $500 job turned into a 4 week $3000 job, and that was with getting some generous discounts.

but that's not all! rear driveshaft seal is leaking. can't see it, it doesn't leave a puddle or even a drop on the garage floor, but you can smell it while driving. I'm about to put my car on the market but I don't want to sell a car with a ticking time bomb in the transmission. Doing the rear seal will delay things further, but it'll have to get done. Pretty easy fix so I'm told, but now I'm paranoid about transmission fluid level - what happens if it gets a little low?

And front pads and rotors are getting a bit thin. This isn't my first rodeo with an older high performance car; it wouldn't be so irritating if I were keeping the car. But I want to get it on the market in as good condition as possible, but quickly as well; I keep seeing cars I want come and go :/

[Aronis]

Cam tensioners dying? What? According to some on this site, only a few have failed! D'ooh. Sounds like DRC all over again. One guy here who had the DRC fail at 30k miles stated that they will ALL FAIL. And guess what? They did, thus the Audi DRC recall! Who was that guy? ME!

The Cam Tensioners are DESIGNED to fail. Period. Hot Oil, Metal on plastic, High Speeds...what does that sound like? I don't know? A SAW? There should be a warning right next to the "use our oil or Die" warning about parts due to fail at 100,000 miles. We don't mind paying but it should not be a surprise to us or our mechanics.

The rear driveshaft seal leaking? You mean off the rear differential or the rear main seal? The rear main seal can leak at the flange and not actually at the seal part.

Mike

[SteveKen]

Please be more specific on the leaking seal.

If it's the output seal going from the transmission to the prop shaft, then it's leaking front and center diff fluid and not trans fluid. It has a separate fill plug and be usure to use gear oil ans not trans fluid.

Any leaking from the prop shaft would just be a boot, similar to your front axles.

Leaking form the rear differential is a pretty straight forward fix, putting in a new seal. I don't think I've ever seen what happens when the front, center or rear diffs get low on fluid, so I'm not much help there. I do know that they are pretty easy to fill. Also make sure you can open the fill plugs before draining any fluids.

[kismetcapitan]

not sure exactly, but I'm taking the car into my local independent Audi tech to get the whatever seal he's talking about replaced. My understanding is that it's the seal for the driveshaft from the transmission to the rear differential. He was talking about doing the transmission fluid and filter as well.

Gear oil makes sense though - I used to use Redline gear oil in my last car - red stuff that was so viscous it was barely liquid lol. That's the exact smell I'm getting, from whatever is dripping onto my exhaust.

[midwest1275]

I have to say at this moment, I'm really loving my RS6. After all that maintenance$$$$$ and time spent, the car is dialed. The power, handling, new sound system, and ride feel are all what I was looking for. Every time I have had these moments in the past something has quickly broken and needed repair. So that means something is probably on its way out right now. Oh well. But at least right now I am really enjoying this car that I can fill pack full of friends, transport ton of stuff, take my kid to day care w/his recaro toddler seat, blast the canyon roads, and roast most cars on the straights. It does it all and looks pretty damn good doing it. Still get thumbs up from the enthusiasts that know and double take to check the rear badge.

Optimistically, I just signed up for a 2 day track weekend at Buttonwillow Raceway in central California. I live in west Los Angeles. It will be Nov 18-20. Fingers crossed that this sweet spot will extend through that weekend and keep her running tight. It will be the first track weekend for this car. Audi Club of North America-Southern California chapter is putting this track weekend together.

[lswing]

Glad to hear the car is performing well. I've gone through the same thing a few times, luckily with a great mechanic. After dropping $5-10k in parts and labor the car is an absolute rocket and can keep up or beat most anything on the road. Buttoned up and performing like new is a great driving experience. Plus that great V8 rumble, keeps me in the game. There's always the worry of the next i$$ue though...

[midwest1275]

Like clockwork, as soon as I say something positive about this car it throws a code. Got it scanned today and luckily it was just an EVAP code. The shop said they can fix it with a new gas cap and a "purge filter?". Looks like a cheap fix. (exhale.......) The filter is in the left front of the engine bay right next to the air intake tube. No engine pull, it's just hanging right there. Amazing.

[lswing]

Like clockwork, as soon as I say something positive about this car it throws a code. Got it scanned today and luckily it was just an EVAP code. The shop said they can fix it with a new gas cap and a "purge filter?". Looks like a cheap fix. (exhale.......) The filter is in the left front of the engine bay right next to the air intake tube. No engine pull, it's just hanging right there. Amazing.

Last time I got that, 3 years ago, just tightened the gas cap and cleared codes. Hasn't come back...

[ttboost]

Congrats...it'll get you next time...

[lswing]

Congrats...it'll get you next time...

Don't worry, I'm leaking fuel from the secondary pump or a line, or the dreaded tank valve...yay for 13 year old plastic!!!

[midwest1275]

I was at Eurotech in Marina del Rey today getting my RS looked at. There was a Dolphin Grey RS6 with grey stock wheels up on a lift with the engine/tranny out getting some major work done. Forum members car?? I live really close to this shop.