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View Full Version : Autobahn on History Channel raises some questions



JAXRS6
February 5th, 2004, 08:30
The History Channel currently is airing a program on the Autobahn as part of its Modern Marvels series. Pretty interesting show -- for example, statistics show there are fewer fatalities per miles driven on the Autobahn than on US Interstates! Of course the program makes me want to go there so I can drive as fast as I want (at least on the portion that doesn't have speed limits yet).

Program said a driver's license costing $1500-$2000 is required. Assuming that's true, I wonder if it's possible for an American citizen to get such a license. And -- does it require a lot of study or preparation? Can test be taken in English? How long does it take to sign up, take test, get results & license?

Bottom line is, I'd like to consider an Autobahn excursion if/when I <a href="http://go-advertising.com?go=travel" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: travel';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">travel</a> to Europe. So besides the driver's license issue, there are other questions -- such as does anyone conduct tours that include such an experience? And, could I bring over my RS6 to drive on the Autobahn (and elsewhere in Europe)?

Any help with these questions would be appreciated. If you don't have answers but know of someone who might (e.g. a specialized <a href="http://0-2u.com?go=travel" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: travel';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">travel</a> agency), please pass it on. Thanks!

PS -- The TV program said about half the Autobahn remains without a speed limit, but the trend towards setting limits is growing -- and the program seems to be a few years old (since it referred to something in 2003 as being in the future). Is it now less than 50% without a speed limit, or does anyone know the miles available without limits?
:D

Erik
February 5th, 2004, 09:42
I'm certainly not the expert on Autobahn but I sure have done my miles there.

Germany is crowded, so you can sometimes find yourself stuck in "Stau," i.e. standing still. However, if you're in the right place at the right time you should certainly be able to see how fast your car can go. And even if there's traffic there's a huge satisfaction in flooring it as much as you like whenever traffic opens up.
Beware of cars and trucks passing others trucks :MTM: that can be really dangerous and you have to read the traffic all the time.
If in doubt, slow down and always be prepared to slam the brakes!

As far as I know no special license is needed, sounds like hoax. :eye:

PS. Danham's company has an RS6 for rent ;)

oswald
February 7th, 2004, 04:40
since I come from Poland let me tell you - there's NO special license needed to use the Autobahn's. As for bringing your US spec RS6 to germany - I don't know how are the lights configured in the US version - but if your turning lights(?) are glowing all the time you could get stopped and get a ticket.

Erik
February 10th, 2004, 13:41
Read this! :burnout:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,588-996280,00.html

"The right to travel without speed restrictions on the motorway is the German equivalent to the American right to own a gun"

Klint
February 10th, 2004, 14:41
Originally posted by Erik
Read this! :burnout:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,588-996280,00.html

"The right to travel without speed restrictions on the motorway is the German equivalent to the American right to own a gun"

That quote seems to sum it up correctly. If it's not mistaken, and there are strict gun laws in the states? :harass:

Or the alternative is to visit my home land, here on the Isle of Man. Not exactly autobahn straights with triple carriageways as such but wide twisty roads which are currently derestricted are available for anyone to use. :cheers:

JAXRS6
February 11th, 2004, 08:43
Originally posted by Klint
Not exactly autobahn straights with triple carriageways as such but wide twisty roads which are currently derestricted are available for anyone to use. :cheers:

Wow, that's encouraging! Any suggestions on how I can find out more? Web site, photos, info on what sort of performance car(s) I might be able to rent etc.

JAXRS6
February 11th, 2004, 08:51
Originally posted by Erik
Read this! :burnout:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,588-996280,00.html


Interesting; thanks, Erik! Do you have any idea how to reach the <a href="http://get-certified.net?go=travel" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: travel';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">travel</a> agent mentioned in the article who caters to Asian tourists? I'm not Asian but would like to inquire.

Klint
February 11th, 2004, 14:36
Originally posted by JAXRS6
Wow, that's encouraging! Any suggestions on how I can find out more? Web site, photos, info on what sort of performance car(s) I might be able to rent etc.

Unfortunately there are no high performance car rentals available on the island it may be possible to use an English high performance rental on the Island though.... There was a good link given by Erik in the lifestyle section, I'll try dig that up.

Might be a small market for it , good thinking. Take advantage of the de-restricted roads. :p

You can find some pictures of the roads, along with a mulitutde of pictures related to the island in the link titled "My Pictures" in my sig. :thumb:

Klint
February 11th, 2004, 14:42
Here's the exotic car rentals: http://www.drivenimage.com/

Check out the inventory in London. It costs approx. £150-200 for a 10 day return ferry to the Island from Liverpool (2hr each way), that's about circa. 350 miles away from London.

Erik
February 18th, 2004, 10:47
Originally posted by Erik
Read this! :burnout:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,588-996280,00.html


Rolf was convicted to 1 1/2 years in prison last week.

JAXRS6
February 18th, 2004, 20:59
Personally, altho I hope to drive the Autobahn unfettered some day, I'm glad to hear that Herr Fischer will be doing some time. He did flee the scene of a fatal accident that involved him, right?

I guess the debate is over his role in "forcing" her to change lanes, right? And the lane change she made resulted in an accident; right? So, high speed advocates are, I presume, arguing that it was her fault rather than his.

Personally I'm not taking sides on that aspect because I don't know much about it. But I'm wondering, among you who have followed this story closer, whether the nature of his "forcing" has been discovered & publicized. For example, was he cruising behind her at a reasonably safe distance when he gave his signal for her to move over? Or did he roar up with no warning, scaring the sh*t out of her?

Also: Was he required to give her a signal, and if so what type? If not, is it her obligation to keep an eye out rearward & move over if fast traffic appears? And if no to both questions, on whose shoulders does German law place the burden -- his or hers?

Nordschleife
February 19th, 2004, 11:48
Turbo Rolf got time because he tried to make it appear as if he had not been on the autobahn at the time the accident occurred.

As far as following distances are concerned, the 2 second rule applies. This can be hard to maintain in traffic as opportunistic drivers in the inside lane often pull out into the perceived gap between you and the car in front.

It is the obligation of all drivers to move out of the left or fast lane when not overtaking, if another vehicle comes up behind them, then they are obliged to move to the right lane.

All manoevers should be accompanied by use of the turn indicators. When travelling fast on the autobahn use of the headlights is advised, this is where xenons become useful, they shout big fast car coming up fast! Driving/fog lights, if still installed, should be used as speed rise, they add depth to the wall of light. Finally, use the turn indicator - anything to help catch the eye of the driver in front.

I have coached a number of drivers in how to drive fast and safely on the Autobahn. It is a demanding business which requires considerable concentration. After correcting the seating position, gear-changing technique and hand position, I start off by having the driver start to run a spoken commentary on all the vehicles in front and behind. This is a very useful exercise, it teaches the driver to become positionally aware, makes the driver aware of different types of car behaviour, raises awareness of how one's actions have an effect on the behaviour of others, and acts as an indicator of how well the driver is coping with the current traffic level and speed, as confidence and skill improves, so does the commentary become more fluid and accurate. As speeds rise, the concentration point moves further and further down the road, this is important, it gives one adequate reaction time and prevents any incipient vertigo from visual chunking - the effect of staring fixedly at the road just in front of the car and seeing everying coming towards you in 'chunks', rather than as a smooth continuous ribbon. By this stage the driver should be comfortable at speeds in excess of 280kph. It is time for the driver to start making judgements on the likely behaviour of each driver in front, using all the visual clues offered, the result of this analysis allows the driver to select the best method of drawing attention to the fact that there is a very fast car coming up from behind and the driver in front needs to get out of the way, pronto!
I try and teach drivers to adjust their speed as early as possible so that they arrive immediately behind the car in front just as it pulls into the right lane. Rarely for Germany, I also encourage drivers to thank, by way of a wave, people who pull over. My thinking is that being polite makes others less resentful, less likely to complain about fast drivers.
A well driven car will make its way through traffic at speed and without being noticed by other drivers, being unobtrusive is the key to not attracting the attention of the Police or the anti-speed lobby.
For several reasons I'm not particularly keen of hords of US drivers descending on the Autobahn for high speed driving thrills. Its not just their lack of experience, in the event of anything happening its likely to become a cause celebre, as in Rolf's case, and bring closer the day when all roads are speed controlled.
By a quirk of US Constitutional law, not all US drivers licenses are recognised in Germany, there are 16 States whose licenses are not recognised.

HTH

R+C

JAXRS6
February 20th, 2004, 05:42
Seems like sound advice to me! Maybe I'll contact you for some possible coaching if I ever make it over there.

:incar: :incar:
One question: If a car that's in the fast/left Autobahn lane doesn't move over like it should, what is the following faster car supposed to do? Moving to the right lane seems risky (and maybe illegal?). So if slowing down is the only option, one had better be focusing well ahead & prepare accordingly -- that's one of your points, right? I imagine the Autobahn as a place where "better late than never" isn't good enough -- to say the least.

Nordschleife
February 20th, 2004, 09:43
Originally posted by JAXRS6

One question: If a car that's in the fast/left Autobahn lane doesn't move over like it should, what is the following faster car supposed to do? Moving to the right lane seems risky (and maybe illegal?). So if slowing down is the only option, one had better be focusing well ahead & prepare accordingly -- that's one of your points, right? I imagine the Autobahn as a place where "better late than never" isn't good enough -- to say the least.


You've got it - slowing down IS the ONLY option. When focussing ahead, you also have to look out for the old VW Campervan from Holland wobbling out into your path and only looking in their rear view mirror once you are filling it.
Passing on the right provokes calls to the police who will send a car ahead and catch the perpetrator.
Very good brakes are most important. Recently at my brake engineer of choice there were RS6s, M3CSLs, a 959 ClubSport, Bentley Turbo, 2 Lambos, a C5 (R ish), a Viper...... almost nobody builds cars with brake systems up to the task of coping with the German Autobahn!


R+C
PS never make insulting gestures on the roads in Germany - flipping the finger can cost upwards of $2000!!!

Erik
February 20th, 2004, 11:21
There is a driver's training, I think at Nürburgring, that teaches you the best way to get the car to stop in an emegency (either failure of the brakes or if you simply can't stop in time).

I've heard that they teach you to move the car towards, and drive as parallell as possible to the armco and then start turning fast towards the armco. I.e. using the wheels and the body of the car to slow down, plus the brakes of course if there are any left...
It may sound dramatic, but the option of rear-tailing someone at high-speed isn't at all better.
And it is much easier and less expensive to repair the side of the car than the front.
I've done enough stage 1 driving trainings, I'd like to try something that takes driving to the next level.

Nordschleife
February 20th, 2004, 11:43
Originally posted by Erik
There is a driver's training, I think at Nürburgring, that teaches you the best way to get the car to stop in an emegency (either failure of the brakes or if you simply can't stop in time).

I've heard that they teach you to move the car towards, and drive as parallell as possible to the armco and then start turning fast towards the armco. I.e. using the wheels and the body of the car to slow down, plus the brakes of course if there are any left...
It may sound dramatic, but the option of rear-tailing someone at high-speed isn't at all better.
And it is much easier and less expensive to repair the side of the car than the front.
I've done enough stage 1 driving trainings, I'd like to try something that takes driving to the next level.

Erik
This is a very interesting, but debatable point.
I have been told about an incident where a driver was legally travelling at speed on the Autobahn, another driver pulled out in front of him. He had a choice, rear end the car in front or slow down on the armco. Well he opted for the armco, he didn't get it right and he ended up flipping his car. He was badly hurt and in hospital for some time, when get got out he had to face the fact he has to drive an automatic as he has lost control of his left foot, he had been convicted for a driving offence (dangerous, I think) and had an over EUR 2000 fine and he lost he license for 2 months. Had he rear-ended the car, none of this would have happened.
I emphasise I have only been told about this. One possibility is to say that he would not have been convicted if he had learned to put the car into the armco, properly.
I would say, however, that one should defer going into the armco as long as possible. Firstly one should get on the brakes as HARD as possible, the ABS will let you steer carefully, explore the possibility of moving into the right lane, perhaps there will be a place where the space on the left widens out, it frequently does when crtossing a bridge or culvert. When you do decide to go into the armco, try to avoid one of the uprights and let the barrier embrace the car. But, usually, a gap opens in the right hand lane.

R+C