6spd swap using an 077 block?

[p8nt]

Greeting! I'm new to rs6.com, but not audis. Sorry if this has been covered, my searches haven't brought up the info I'm looking for.

I realize Steve Ken's kit is proven and well documented, but i'm curious if anyone here has done a 01e swap using an 077 block? I know that MTM and Advanced Automotion have done this, but there's no documented "build thread". I'm really just looking for the pros and cons with going this route.

I've currently got an 02 S6, and have stumbled upon a rs6 with a bad trans. I'm guessing you see the wheels turning in my head...

Thanks in advance!

[SteveKen]

I guess it depends on how comfortable you are in having the internals swapped over. Price wise, I think it's most likely a wash or more spendy on the engine rebuild if you do the math.

Also I'm not 100 percent but i think advanced hasnt done the 077 swap.

[littleredwagen]

Steve I am thinking the same thing, starting to look for an RS6 and I have a spare 077 block, but I was curious if the A6/S6 crank is forged. I would like you use it so I can run more readily available 2.7t flywheels

[nubcake]

A friend of mine is currently in the process of doing this. Although his build is going very slowly. :)
I can try asking for details within a couple of days.

As far as I know for now, the only difference - and the most important one - is the gidle/upper oil pan, it lacks oil drain holes for turbos.
EDIT: he's going to reuse the RS crank though.

[p8nt]

I guess it depends on how comfortable you are in having the internals swapped over. Price wise, I think it's most likely a wash or more spendy on the engine rebuild if you do the math.

Also I'm not 100 percent but i think advanced hasnt done the 077 swap.

This is really the meat of my question. I would do new rod/crank bearings, but the Alusil obviously presents some real challenges with new rings. I know others have done this, but the idea of swapping used pistons/rings into another used block seems contrary to everything I've ever been told about best practices during a rebuild.

Obviously MTM does this successfully, I just wish someone could explain the process and put my mind at ease.

I sent you a PM about Advanced.

[p8nt]

A friend of mine is currently in the process of doing this. Although his build is going very slowly. :)
I can try asking for details within a couple of days.

As far as I know for now, the only difference - and the most important one - is the gidle/upper oil pan, it lacks oil drain holes for turbos.
EDIT: he's going to reuse the RS crank though.

But couldn't you swap that pan over from the rs block to the 077 block? I thought I had read that was one of the required steps.

[nubcake]

But couldn't you swap that pan over from the rs block to the 077 block? I thought I had read that was one of the required steps.

a) This defeats the whole purpose of swapping the block, since that's the only different bellhousing part. Upper bellhousing (engine block itself) is mostly the same.
b) Girdle & block are usually machined as one piece, then separated. Using girdle from the other block might lead to seized crankshaft. Or so they say.

In fact, you can skip the whole adapter plate deal altogether and bolt the tranny only using the upper/side bolts. It's strong enough. You will also need an early V8 10-bolt flywheel and will have to machine 60-2 timing marks on it. My current car has this setup (I bought it this way) and it holds strong. Hybrid turbos, 600+hp. Just letting you know that it's possible, not persuading to skip whatever you have in mind. :)

[Bigglezworth]

Why anyone would start to piss around with the engine in an attempt to mitigate a transmission matter is beyond me. The engine is the most solid part on this car. Use an adapter and be done with it.

[p8nt]

a) This defeats the whole purpose of swapping the block, since that's the only different bellhousing part. Upper bellhousing (engine block itself) is mostly the same.
b) Girdle & block are usually machined as one piece, then separated. Using girdle from the other block might lead to seized crankshaft. Or so they say.

In fact, you can skip the whole adapter plate deal altogether and bolt the tranny only using the upper/side bolts. It's strong enough. You will also need an early V8 10-bolt flywheel and will have to machine 60-2 timing marks on it. My current car has this setup (I bought it this way) and it holds strong. Hybrid turbos, 600+hp. Just letting you know that it's possible, not persuading to skip whatever you have in mind. :)

Gotcha. Thanks for the info! These are the tidbits I've been trying to find.

So your buddy then; does he have a workaround in mind? is there room to tap/plumb return lines?

[p8nt]

Why anyone would start to piss around with the engine in an attempt to mitigate a transmission matter is beyond me. The engine is the most solid part on this car. Use an adapter and be done with it.

Cant argue with you there. But, inquiring minds want to know.

I'm sure Steve's kit is the way to go, just trying to understand the alternative.

[littleredwagen]

a) This defeats the whole purpose of swapping the block, since that's the only different bellhousing part. Upper bellhousing (engine block itself) is mostly the same.
b) Girdle & block are usually machined as one piece, then separated. Using girdle from the other block might lead to seized crankshaft. Or so they say.

In fact, you can skip the whole adapter plate deal altogether and bolt the tranny only using the upper/side bolts. It's strong enough. You will also need an early V8 10-bolt flywheel and will have to machine 60-2 timing marks on it. My current car has this setup (I bought it this way) and it holds strong. Hybrid turbos, 600+hp. Just letting you know that it's possible, not persuading to skip whatever you have in mind. :)

The upper oil pan is not a girdle/upper oil pan like the newer V8 engines. The upper pan is a direct swap.

[nubcake]

The upper oil pan is not a girdle/upper oil pan like the newer V8 engines. The upper pan is a direct swap.

Cool! Didn't look at it thoroughly myself and assumed that it was the same as newer V8s. So, it means you can swap only this S6 piece & drill/tap for oil return lines and have tranny bolted correctly.
EDIT: although it only makes sense if you already have your engine apart for some reason.

p8nt: Will ask him for details and probably some pics. Gonna post back once I have the info.

[littleredwagen]

Cool! Didn't look at it thoroughly myself and assumed that it was the same as newer V8s. So, it means you can swap only this S6 piece & drill/tap for oil return lines and have tranny bolted correctly.
EDIT: although it only makes sense if you already have your engine apart for some reason.

p8nt: Will ask him for details and probably some pics. Gonna post back once I have the info.

On my A6 with S6 Motor /w 01e swap I'm not using the bottom three holes that are in the upper oil pan. I have it bolted in all the other holes to the block. So I would use the RS6 upper pan bolted to the block. I have a spare 077 block and crank that I wanted to used to swap into a RS6 (when I find one) So I can use Standard 2.7t flywheel and clutch combo's to keep future upgrades easier and affordable. As long as the A6/S6 crank is forged of course.

[SteveKen]

http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/adapter/RS6_w_spcr_s.JPG
RS6 block with the 2.7T spacer showing the 01E holes

[wes]

hi SteveKen, could you please assist with which colours are for what side of the powertain ie, gearbox/transmission and engine. Much appreciated.

[Bigglezworth]

If I was a betting man, that would be 3 green holes that line up to existing locations, 2 yellow that line up with an undrilled location in the casting, and 4 red that don't line up at all. Great photo for showing why a custom adapter plate is required to mate the two components.

[SteveKen]

If I was a betting man, that would be 3 green holes that line up to existing locations, 2 yellow that line up with an undrilled location in the casting, and 4 red that don't line up at all. Great photo for showing why a custom adapter plate is required to mate the two components.

^^^
Exactly this.

Also on the 077 block, the red hole at 4 o'clock doesn't line up and you have to drill it out.

[scottmandu]

Also I'm not 100 percent but i think advanced hasnt done the 077 swap. Your percentage estimate should be zero.

Using the 077 block is straight forward. If your feeling lucky you can re-use bearings etc, but after you add up all the cost of all the parts etc your at or near the cost of the adapter, a big benefit is you can use a stock starter and have all the 2.7/2.8/4.2 flywheel choices which could be a big plus if you need a multi plate clutch.

[Bigglezworth]

Your percentage estimate should be zero.

Using the 077 block is straight forward. If your feeling lucky you can re-use bearings etc, but after you add up all the cost of all the parts etc your at or near the cost of the adapter, a big benefit is you can use a stock starter and have all the 2.7/2.8/4.2 flywheel choices which could be a big plus if you need a multi plate clutch.

Not to mention the host of hours working on an engine just to get some bolt holes to line up.

[ttboost]

In fact, you can skip the whole adapter plate deal altogether and bolt the tranny only using the upper/side bolts. It's strong enough.

This is what I did. Worked fine for many miles...new owner still driving it...

[Bigglezworth]

This is what I did. Worked fine for many miles...new owner still driving it...?? Please clarify. Only 3 of the holes line up though. There remain 2 that mate with undrilled parts of the block and 1 that doesn't line up at all. I would agree that a tranny doesn't need to be bolted all the way around and will suffice with 6 of the 10 holes being bolted up. Hell, GM has done that for decades and hot rodder's have blasted out WAY more power than we are in these power plants using the TH350 & TH400 bell housings that only have 6 bolts holding it to the block.....
16917

[ttboost]

?? Please clarify. Only 3 of the holes line up though. There remain 2 that mate with undrilled parts of the block and 1 that doesn't line up at all. I would agree that a tranny doesn't need to be bolted all the way around and will suffice with 6 of the 10 holes being bolted up. Hell, GM has done that for decades and hot rodder's have blasted out WAY more power than we are in these power plants using the TH350 & TH400 bell housings that only have 6 bolts holding it to the block.....
16917

It's been awhile and I don't have any pics that clearly show, but I seem to recall using 5 or 6 bolts...