Name That LEAK!

[Aronis]

Hello all,

I did a drive to Boston and Back, 5 hours each way, mild driving, and when I returned I noticed a puddle under my car. :o(

I finally took a few minutes to put it up on my ramps to take a look. I was hoping it was just the under pan seal on the transmission but this is what I found.

16848

Anyone have an idea where this could be coming from? TC?


Thank you,

Mike

[Aronis]

Input Shaft Seal?

[LaserSVT]

Rear main

[LaserSVT]

Input Shaft Seal?
Wrong color fluid.

[Aronis]

Looks like Transmission fluid, red.....I guess it could be oil...

[LaserSVT]

If thats red I need my eyes checked bad.

[Aronis]

I really wish the dam car had a dip stick in the transmission, it would make life a lot easier....just check and refill and let it leak. LOL.....

[Aronis]

Yes I know and agree, but on the garage floor and on my finger it looked red...maybe just dirt......Looks different in the picture on the transmission.....

[P1054]

The stock trans fluid isn't red, it's more amber. But that does look like oil in the pic.

[Aronis]

So, rear main, urgency to fix? Just watch oil level? Drive local only?

[Bigglezworth]

Taste it. Seriously. Differential fluid, transmission fluid, and engine oil all taste different and you can readily differentiate which is which when they get dirty and the color isn't so 'obvious'. It doesn't look like it's wet on either side of the transmission, so unless you can better confirm if the drivers side is 'wet' below the axle area, I'm ruling out either the differential seal or axle output shaft seals. It also doesn't look like engine oil to me since the engine oil is quick to be polluted with carbon as part of combustion blow-by so my money isn't on the RMS. The photo looks like tranny fluid to me and it's location suggests it possibly the front seal on your input shaft. Clearly you will want to watch the level of your engine oil, but since you can't do the same for the tranny, ensure you are also watching how much you are depositing on the floor over the next bit. If your engine oil doesn't go down while you're leaving behind, it's obviously not the RMS. You don't want to run the tranny low on fluid either, but unfortunately there is no dipstick to check quickly, so you would at a minimum need to remove filler plug and check at the documented temperature for filling. Either way, it's going to be some $$ to fix unfortunately. Boo.. :(

[bethridg]

I had an identical looking leak before I pulled my motor. Thought it was rear main as well. When I got it apart, it was completely dry behind the flex plate. Whichever it is you will have to separate motor and trans to fix anyway.

[ttboost]

Whichever it is you will have to separate motor and trans to fix anyway.

Yep, just repair whichever side is more wet....

[4everRS]

Like Tim said. Taste it. I was having lunch with a few buddies, one of them having a leak. I suggested to taste it and they looked at me like I just ate my pet cat. It works. Back in high school engine building class, this was one of the first this they taught us.

My vote on the leak is trans fluid

[Aronis]

Differential fluid has sulfur smell and is dark. I'm not tasting it...LOL.....

Just wrestling with selling it as is or dumping more money into it. Spent 900 on CV boot, 1600 on front bumper cover.....

[Bigglezworth]

Spent 900 on CV bootYikes! Did you get a complementary reach around at least?

[ttboost]

Yeah, I hope he forgot a decimal point...

[Aronis]

it was $900 ..but included..Oil Pan seal, oil change, repair a coolant leak (loose tubing) and fix the CV boot (both on same axel of course), also check the valve guides since he found a piece of plastic in the oil pan. (turns out they change the valve guides at an earlier service and did not charge me> LOL)

[Aronis]

I checked the oil level...LOL down to middle of range. So it is oil

:)

[Bigglezworth]

Are the sides of the bellhousing 'wet' or just the bottom? Wet sides would confirm oil leaking down from above from valve covers. Get out your flashlight and look down behind your heads. If you have the SAI still in place, it might be more difficult to see, but use one of those small mirrors on an extension arm if need be. I'd put money on it not being a RMS.

[ttboost]

I checked the oil level...LOL down to middle of range. So it is oil

:)
Appreciate the advanced troubleshooting method.:harass:

[Aronis]

Update.

I had the car up on my ramps and checked every spot I could see, the only place oil was found was on the bottom of the transmission bell housing. There is nothing leaking from the valve covers.

I had the car up on a lift yesterday. It's definitely the rear main seal.

My mechanic begins on Monday. Pull the engine!

We plan on repairing the obvious leak, then replacing input and output shaft seals on transmission, swapping plastic for the Bufkin pipe, new CV boot on passenger side (third one this year), checking turbos for oil leaks, checking plumbing etc, probably doing the timing belt (was done 12,000 miles ago, so probably not necessary), spark plugs/packs, no power upgrades keeping it stock since I don't want to kill the transmission LOL. Replace whatever looks worn.

Photos will follow. LOL.....

He expects to charge for about 25 hours as per Audi service book for engine/transmission pull, plus or minus. Hoping to keep the repair below $3500.00.


Mike

[Bigglezworth]

Fun fun fun. Keep us posted.

[wmgarton]

Any more info on where the leak originated?

[Aronis]

Mechanic was supposed to start today. LOL.....maybe in 2016.....still looks like rear main seal.

[Aronis]

16931

started today, mechanic sent me a picture.

[Hy Octane]

Cant tell you how many things I have been able to buy for fun since I stopped funding Audi thru my RS6. What a poorly designed auto we all bought into. For contrast, I moved into a 2013 S5 and now coming up on 3 years, I have not had one single problem with this superb machine.. We got so accustomed to taking the RS6 in for repairs every few months that having a car that works is something we had forgotten the feeling of.. Its nice to again have confidence in the reliability of your car so we can enjoy trips without the fear of breaking down and not being able to get parts/techs etc.. I strongly recommend this to all.. Happy Holidays!!

[Bigglezworth]

Cant tell you how many things I have been able to buy for fun since I stopped funding Audi thru my RS6. What a poorly designed auto we all bought into. For contrast, I moved into a 2013 S5 and now coming up on 3 years, I have not had one single problem with this superb machine.. We got so accustomed to taking the RS6 in for repairs every few months that having a car that works is something we had forgotten the feeling of.. Its nice to again have confidence in the reliability of your car so we can enjoy trips without the fear of breaking down and not being able to get parts/techs etc.. I strongly recommend this to all.. Happy Holidays!!A decade in car design/engineering should make for a better. Just wait until you need to address your timing chains though. You might be singing a different song at that point... ;)

[LaserSVT]

Cant tell you how many things I have been able to buy for fun since I stopped funding Audi thru my RS6. What a poorly designed auto we all bought into. For contrast, I moved into a 2013 S5 and now coming up on 3 years, I have not had one single problem with this superb machine.. We got so accustomed to taking the RS6 in for repairs every few months that having a car that works is something we had forgotten the feeling of.. Its nice to again have confidence in the reliability of your car so we can enjoy trips without the fear of breaking down and not being able to get parts/techs etc.. I strongly recommend this to all.. Happy Holidays!!
That's cool. Wanna race? :p

[ttboost]

Cant tell you how many things I have been able to buy for fun since I stopped funding Audi thru my RS6. What a poorly designed auto we all bought into. For contrast, I moved into a 2013 S5 and now coming up on 3 years, I have not had one single problem with this superb machine.. We got so accustomed to taking the RS6 in for repairs every few months that having a car that works is something we had forgotten the feeling of.. Its nice to again have confidence in the reliability of your car so we can enjoy trips without the fear of breaking down and not being able to get parts/techs etc.. I strongly recommend this to all.. Happy Holidays!!


A decade in car design/engineering should make for a better. Just wait until you need to address your timing chains though. You might be singing a different song at that point... ;)


Agree with both of these:lovl:...and still love my mid 10sec V...and yes, I know it's only RWD...:hahahehe:

[Aronis]

I hear you! LOL

[Aronis]

Update.....there ARE two leaks.

Yes the rear main seal is leaking oil but not quite enough to puddle on the floor. The fluid on the floor I thought was coolant, but was not quite right, was indeed a leak from the oil coolant pipe, it was discolored by dirt on the floor I guess. LOL.

We found a good amount of oil in the lower intercooler pipe on the drivers side when he took that tube off, I was watching and it made a nice puddle on the floor, probably 1/2 cup or more. And a small amount of oil was in the intercooler pipe on the passenger side. I understand a small amount is not that unusual but the driver side turbo may be an issue.

The engine should be out tomorrow..

Mike

[fukinavit]

Cant tell you how many things I have been able to buy for fun since I stopped funding Audi thru my RS6. What a poorly designed auto we all bought into. For contrast, I moved into a 2013 S5 and now coming up on 3 years, I have not had one single problem with this superb machine.. We got so accustomed to taking the RS6 in for repairs every few months that having a car that works is something we had forgotten the feeling of.. Its nice to again have confidence in the reliability of your car so we can enjoy trips without the fear of breaking down and not being able to get parts/techs etc.. I strongly recommend this to all.. Happy Holidays!!

Its all a matter of perspective I suppose. what you fail to see it that just like so many others your are still funding the audi machine, but even more so now. im not sure of purchase price of a new S5 but around $60k I would guess?. Now 3 years old , so now worth 40ish, so that's 8-10k a year on depreciation. so in a couple more years worth around 25k. ouch, and you say the RS6 costs money!
No matter how much I made I still would never buy a new car, huge waste of money. piece of mind might be worth it to some and that I can understand, but what a cost. Ive heard all the horror stories, but my beast is 2 years old to me, ive driven near 20,000kms and ive put in $1800 ($1000 was new RNSE). Pretty good value for that amazing V8 music ( how's the V6? ) Times have changed and sure the RS6 has its faults, but the S5 is not even a similar machine, and like Bigglezworth says, better get rid before those timing chains need attention!, merry Christmas!!!

[lswing]

Cant tell you how many things I have been able to buy for fun since I stopped funding Audi thru my RS6. What a poorly designed auto we all bought into. For contrast, I moved into a 2013 S5 and now coming up on 3 years, I have not had one single problem with this superb machine.. We got so accustomed to taking the RS6 in for repairs every few months that having a car that works is something we had forgotten the feeling of.. Its nice to again have confidence in the reliability of your car so we can enjoy trips without the fear of breaking down and not being able to get parts/techs etc.. I strongly recommend this to all.. Happy Holidays!!

Unfortunately you never had a competent mechanic...give the S5 12 years and see what fails, old parts need to be replaced, but again who would want an S5 that long anyhow:)

[lswing]

Update.....there ARE two leaks.

Yes the rear main seal is leaking oil but not quite enough to puddle on the floor. The fluid on the floor I thought was coolant, but was not quite right, was indeed a leak from the oil coolant pipe, it was discolored by dirt on the floor I guess. LOL.

We found a good amount of oil in the lower intercooler pipe on the drivers side when he took that tube off, I was watching and it made a nice puddle on the floor, probably 1/2 cup or more. And a small amount of oil was in the intercooler pipe on the passenger side. I understand a small amount is not that unusual but the driver side turbo may be an issue.

The engine should be out tomorrow..

Mike

Good to finally replace that oil/coolant pipe with metal, it lasted a while actually. Your car should be ready by the time it snows at least!

[SteveKen]

That coolant pipe is tricky sometimes.

I always thought that mine leaked only when the car wasn't running. It turns out that it did leak when running but the fluid seemed to have been directed either by the fans or the air moving under the car when in motion. In my case, coolant was drawn towards the front of the engine and my initial thought was that that my FMS was leaking.

Tricky

[SteveKen]

BTW, with some searching, you can find the mfg P/N for the rear main seal itself, where you do not have to replace the whole cover. Should save you well over $100.

[Aronis]

Iswing, the S5 is a nice car. Should have a better exhaust note, and I cannot understand why for the base price as high as it is, the sports differential is an option, thus those who want an S5 as a sports car and not a commute car want the SPORT parts, all the ones I see out there do not have the sports diff, it's rare.

SteveKen, I knew that fluid on the floor was not oil, but when I looked and touched the transmission from bell housing there was certainly nice clean new oil present.

Any thoughts on how much oil in the intercooler tubing is acceptable? Should I replace the turbos? Or cut my losses, fix as is and drive it until it dies?

Mike

[lswing]

I was hoping to rile him up by poking fun at his cheap S5...just not into the coupe look. You can rebuild your turbos for $600-1,200, might just do that if you plan on keeping the beast. I think it depends on how long it's been since you cleared out those lower IC lines of oil, few years? Then maybe 1/2 cup is fine as it should build up over time.

How old are those pads on your cam adjusters? The passenger side it a complete pain when the engine is in. Maybe replace just the pads as they might be well worn...remove valve cover to take a look.

[Aronis]

Iswing,

The cam adjusters were replaced at 127,000 miles in June 2012. There is no record of the part on the parts list but at the time the dealer was giving the mechanic a hard time about getting three jobs done at once when he wanted to work on my car only. So he suspects he 'misplaced some of the parts charges' as I was never charged for cam adjusters. (He is same great mechanic taking care of my cars now - now independent). So when I had him do a few items at 137,000 miles this past April (CV boot, oil pan seal) I happened to be there the day he pulled the oil pan off. We were both shocked to see the pieces of plastic, so he pulled the valve covers off and inspected, the cam adjuster units were brand new.

The intercooler on the drivers side was replaced June 2012 also and I have put about 12000 miles on it since. So the 1/2 cup does concern me as the passenger side just had a small amount and that intercooler is stock. So if it were 'normal' oil accumulation then I would have expected a similar amount on each side. I suspect that if I have him rebuild the Turbochargers it's going to run a lot more than above. LOL. I am hoping to keep the job below $4000.00 and get 12 months out of the car before giving up on it all together.

Mike

[bethridg]

I suspect that if I have him rebuild the Turbochargers it's going to run a lot more than above. LOL.

Ship the entire turbo and have them rebuild for $375/ea
http://www.midwestturboconnection.com/product-p/20022.htm

New CHRAs ~$370/ea
http://www.midwestturboconnection.com/product-p/3505.htm

Or rebuild kits can be found for ~$75/ea
http://www.midwestturboconnection.com/product-p/3008-3011.htm

Other companies (Scroll) can rebuild/upgrade too.

Labor cost and trust in your mechanic is the real question mark.

[Aronis]

thank you bethridg!

[lswing]

I was gonna say, extra few hours labor to pull/replace turbos since engine is out. Ship to scroll in NJ, $1k, come back like new. Other good options as stated...

[Aronis]

I spoke with my mechanic and he can rebuild them, no problem. LOL...he rebuilds 911 turbo engines for fun....:)

[Aronis]

Update...

16936

almost ready to drop the pair.

[fukinavit]

Update.....

The engine should be out tomorrow..

Mike





Never quite goes as planned huh.

[ttboost]

That's why when it comes to the RS6, take whatever money you were planning to save for maintenance, and double it, that way you'll only be a little short...

[lswing]

Wager the over under is point is about $5k. I got to the point where I would drop the car off, go get a rental, and not expect a call back for 3-5 weeks, took the worry out. I also had an awesome honest mechanic. I would drop by on occasion with beers and pizza to help with the misery...

[Aronis]

LOL. I figure it's a 12 month extension of use of the car for about $500 per month. :)

[Aronis]

Update....about ready to drop, drive shafts off, transmission disconnected, all wires, etc....

[Aronis]

It's out......;)

[Bigglezworth]

It's out......;)In record time.... :) Keep us posted on what the offending leak ends up being.

[Aronis]

on one side the turbo nuts were not fully tighten, probably after my Torque converter was changed at 102,000 miles.

[Bigglezworth]

on one side the turbo nuts were not fully tighten, probably after my Torque converter was changed at 102,000 miles.What's that oil leak on the tranny bell housing from?

[Aronis]

it's the rear main seal, that is why we pulled the engine.

[Aronis]

one other interesting tidbit, my indy is getting a J-box and signing up with APR to sell APR tunes, it be a shame if the RS6 APR tune ended up for some reason in my car...have to test the software and J-box somewhere I guess. LOL...

[lswing]

You should be ready by Spring at this rate, ha!

Have them repair EVERY fluid line possible; coolant, steering, oil, vacuum...I've got two little nagging leaks down from this stupid NE cold, and bad roads. Loosing a bit of coolant and PS fluid, joy!!!

[Aronis]

yes, we are changing the oil cooling lines, they are pretty frozen and he had trouble disconnecting them, some corrosion on the fittings. The engine coolant pipe that runs along the passenger side looks questionable. My concern is getting a New Part that is bad.

[lswing]

You are changing the prone to fail plastic coolant pipe on the oil/coolant exchange right? Bufkin pipe...$25, maybe an hour with engine out.

Here are your discharge instructions, call me if you run into any complications:) (don't really call, I don't know a thing)

http://audirssix.com/index.php/overview/maintenance

[Bigglezworth]

You are changing the prone to fail plastic coolant pipe on the oil/coolant exchange right? Bufkin pipe...$25, maybe an hour with engine out.YES! 30 minutes total R&R with engine out. You MUST do this if you haven't already. Senseless to leave OEM in place at this point in time.

[Aronis]

Biggles, the Bufkin pipe is on the list.

Iswing, your list is great but all those 'new' parts are cool if Audi is putting them in since they tend to give you 12 month/12 k mile warrantee on parts AND Labor if they fail. So you run a risk of a new part being a bad part. Can happen! Who knows? I'll leave a lot up that up to the experience of my mechanic. I run the list with him on Monday. Thanks for the input.

[lswing]

Sounds about right. I did get Audi to cover a failed steering rack that my Indy put in; it was obvious to all parties it was defective from Audi. As long as you get all the old hoses and connections you'll be way ahead!

[Aronis]

Ok, here we go....I spend a few hours going over info on the net as well as on Iswing's link Audirssix.com and am trying to come up with a game plan.

Obviously replacing every part is not sane.

Here is the list:

Planned:

Engine Rear Main Seal - the reason why the engine is out. The part I found with the flange at ECS is $279. The seal without the flange is probably $14 LOL. It appears to be a better idea to change the flange with the seal. Any input?

Bufkin Pipe. I bought this 6 months ago and it's going in.

Passenger side outbound CV boot cover. This was done at 83000 miles and it's torn again. We are changing both the inward and outbound covers. The drivers side was done a few months ago....lead to a small disaster due to a bolt being left out....ended up with new bumper cover....D'ooh. )(&*%#*)(&()*#& bolt.....

Transmission Service. Yes we are doing this and the rear seal on the transmission. I had already bought the service kit from ECS and we skipped it on the last service, but now he is doing this. The seal is $45. Not a EPJ but certainly reasonable to do that replacement.

Turbo service. Yes, doing a rebuild on the turbos as they are both leaking some oil. How extensive should this be? Just the internal seals or more of the outer mechanicals?


Not Needed but often recommended.

Timing Belt and related goodies. This was done at 127,000 miles including the water pump and this is not an "engine pull job" so no point in doing it again so soon.

Valve Cover Gaskets. This was also done at 127,000 miles but for some reason the passenger side is seeping, so it's being done again.

Cam Chain Tensioners. This was done at 127,000 miles but I was never charged for the parts. My Indy was working for Audi at the time and is certain they were replaced. We found broken bits of the old ones in the oil pan when he did a new seal on the oil pan a few months ago.

Oxygen Sensors: This is the big question for the group. I know there are four and the front two are "pull the engine" parts! The rear two I understand can be replaced without an engine pull. I found (non OEM) Bosch parts for $130 each vs the $199 for the Audi OEM so it's not a huge expense. But here is where my paranoia comes in. You see, I was the proud owner of a 1984 BMW 325is with Mtech suspension and all the goodies which DIED on the highway with about 50 miles on the odometer due to a BAD Oxygen sensor. So you can see where I am going. How does one assure that the new O2 sensor which requires an engine pull to replace is not a bad egg? Should I run them in my A4 for a few hours and then transplant to the RS6? What say the group?

EGT sensor: $700 for a pair? WTF....is this an Engine Pull Job (EPJ)? I don't know. Again, bad egg problem as above?

Coolant sensor: Was replaced at 86,000 miles and was not an EPJ.

N75 Diverter Valve. $115, but again is this an EPJ? if not then why bother.

Suction Pump: 058133753D $47. Now I have not actually identified the location of this part, apparently it can get plugged with oil and a problem hard to detect. So I am inclined to have that replaced. I have heard it sits under the intake manifold so its not a EPJ but would be easier. Anyone confirm if this sits in a hard to reach spot?

Alternator: New at 101,000 miles and not EPJ. LOL

G40 Camshaft position sensor. $60 each, requires two, but again is this EPJ?

Motor Mounts. $200 to $300 each x 4, not a EPJ, so I'll chance that. Input?

Starter Assembly. Sounds perhaps wise if this is an EPJ. Again bad egg theory comes into play.

We are going to replace any random parts/connectors which he has trouble with as well. I am trying to keep the price below $4,000 and hope to get another FULL year of driving this as my daily drive.

Thank you for the input.

Mike

[Bigglezworth]

I would do:
- Upper O2 sensors
- passenger valve cover
- RMS
- remove SAI if your state doesn't require
- buffkin
- overhaul the seals in the turbo's (cheap at $50 ea in parts).
- front drive shafts (or just the boots at minimum)
- motor mounts (only if you have codes, leakage, or want to swap to performance units)
- timing belt, water pump, t-stat, tensioners, idler, etc (if it is at the recommended time)

everything else is either not necessary due to previous repair at relatively recent mileage, or can be repaired relatively easily with engine in place.

[Aronis]

Thank you for the input!

Why change the drive shafts? They appear to be in good condition.

What is RMS?

Mike

[Bigglezworth]

Thank you for the input!

Why change the drive shafts? They appear to be in good condition.

What is RMS?

MikeFront drive shafts are bolt in and unless you are performing the labour to tear a shaft apart, clean, replace boots, it might be more cost effective to swap the entire shaft. RMS = Rear Main Seal.

[Aronis]

I see.

I did see complete drive shaft assemblies for $700 for a refurbished Audi part or $86 for an aftermarket product. I am sure the $86 product is not quite as good as the EOM which is discounted at $700 as a rebuilt unit. LOL....I'll just do the rehab on mine :).

RMS, I see, why didn't I figure that one out! LOL.

Mike

[Other_Erik]

On the "other" - EGT Sensors are not necessarily an EPJ. It takes finagling, finesse, small hands, and the right tools (I heard some mention of an open-ended box wrench with a 45 degree bend one direction then 90 degrees the opposite direction, but don't quote me on that). If you've already got the engine pulled, I'd say replace them and I'll buy your "suspect" units since mine are throwing codes as of 18 months after doing the solder quickfix.

O_E

[Aronis]

Met with the mechanic today. He scanned the car before breaking it down and found that one of the engine mounts was throwing a code so that is being replaced.

He said he can reach all the other items accept for the Oxygen sensors and does not believe they need to be replaced despite the mileage on the car.

He is going begin breaking down the engine and transmission today to get at the RMS and the oil coolant pipe.

Mike

[Bigglezworth]

I see.

I did see complete drive shaft assemblies for $700 for a refurbished Audi part or $86 for an aftermarket product. I am sure the $86 product is not quite as good as the EOM which is discounted at $700 as a rebuilt unit. LOL....I'll just do the rehab on mine :).

RMS, I see, why didn't I figure that one out! LOL.

MikeRaxles are significantly less expensive and as good or better than OEM. My observation was provided in consideration of the fact that a seasoned mechanic will require a nominal 1-1.5hrs to disassemble, clean, reassemble each axle assembly which depending on your mechanicals shop rate can start to take a good chunk out of the cost to purchase a new unit. The axles come out as part of the powerplant R&R, so whether you're putting in a new one, a used one, or a rebuilt one, the cost to install is already included.

[Aronis]

I agree! :)

[Aronis]

The turbo's are a lot smaller than I imagined. LOL.

[DHall1]

I 2nd this list.

Buy RA axles and the hell with just boots. You need new CVs at this point.

I would ship the turbos to scroll

Dont pay more than 500 for the APR tune. Its average at best.



I would do:
- Upper O2 sensors
- passenger valve cover
- RMS
- remove SAI if your state doesn't require
- buffkin
- overhaul the seals in the turbo's (cheap at $50 ea in parts).
- front drive shafts (or just the boots at minimum)
- motor mounts (only if you have codes, leakage, or want to swap to performance units)
- timing belt, water pump, t-stat, tensioners, idler, etc (if it is at the recommended time)

everything else is either not necessary due to previous repair at relatively recent mileage, or can be repaired relatively easily with engine in place.

[Aronis]

Dhall1, thanks for the input.

I do have a CV joint question though! I am a bit skeptical of certain aftermarket parts but agree that new axles would be cheaper than rehabbing what I have.

The question is that I have a chatter in the rear of the car on hard acceleration which I first noted after I lowered the car. The mechanic and I discussed it several years ago and after looking at the diff etc, came to the conclusion that the CV joints had warn and when I lowered the car a new angle on the CV joint put the non-warn surfaces to work and the chatter is the contact of the warn and non warn areas. Does this sound possible? There is no similar chatter from the front with equally old CV joints. So if this is true then four new axles would make sense. The cost is pretty low compared to stock so that is why I was skeptical. No question that the labor of rehabbing the boot is great than the cost for the aftermarket item.

I will look into the RA axles. Thank you.

Mike

[Bigglezworth]

Dhall1, thanks for the input.

I do have a CV joint question though! I am a bit skeptical of certain aftermarket parts but agree that new axles would be cheaper than rehabbing what I have.

The question is that I have a chatter in the rear of the car on hard acceleration which I first noted after I lowered the car. The mechanic and I discussed it several years ago and after looking at the diff etc, came to the conclusion that the CV joints had warn and when I lowered the car a new angle on the CV joint put the non-warn surfaces to work and the chatter is the contact of the warn and non warn areas. Does this sound possible? There is no similar chatter from the front with equally old CV joints. So if this is true then four new axles would make sense. The cost is pretty low compared to stock so that is why I was skeptical. No question that the labor of rehabbing the boot is great than the cost for the aftermarket item.

I will look into the RA axles. Thank you.

MikeI had chatter upon acceleration when I undertook a suspension swap and attributed it to exactly what you've outlined above. I changed out the rear axles and no more chatter. I also had chatter/vibration on the center drive shaft which was a direct result of alignment after a center support bearing swap. I realigned the center support using a jig to ensure the shaft was straight and vibration gone also.

[DHall1]

RA axles are core OE shafts with all new OEM CVs. Best axles out there

[Aronis]

please point me to a supplier for RA

[Bigglezworth]

please point me to a supplier for RAhttp://www.raxles.com/

[Aronis]

Up Date: LOL There is no way that the dealer replaced the torque converter without pulling the engine. So if they claim they did without pulling the engine then did they actually replace the torque converter! Who knows!

[4everRS]

On my previous car, past and I replaced the torque converter without pulling the engine.

If I'd do it over, I'd pull the engine...


Up Date: LOL There is no way that the dealer replaced the torque converter without pulling the engine. So if they claim they did without pulling the engine then did they actually replace the torque converter! Who knows!

[Aronis]

How did you get at the upper bolts? How about the wiring? All my wires are in place along the top of the transmission in a way only possible from above.

[Aronis]

wires on transmission

[Aronis]

more wires here.

[lswing]

Up Date: LOL There is no way that the dealer replaced the torque converter without pulling the engine. So if they claim they did without pulling the engine then did they actually replace the torque converter! Who knows!

My mechanic also replaced the TC without pulling the engine, was a mess he said. Loosened sub-frame and everything else possible I'm sure, cursed at me. Well, he cursed at me anytime I brought the car in...and he pulled the engine and all for the next few major repairs.

[ttboost]

I don't think you can separate the engine and transmission with the passenger turbo in place. Even if you could get to the bolts (which I don't think you can), the turbo hangs in the way. The turbo can be unbolted in the car, but once it's unbolted. it's very hard to undo the oil and coolant lines with the turbo loose...WAY easier and faster to drop engine

[lswing]

I don't think you can separate the engine and transmission with the passenger turbo in place. Even if you could get to the bolts (which I don't think you can), the turbo hangs in the way. The turbo can be unbolted in the car, but once it's unbolted. it's very hard to undo the oil and coolant lines with the turbo loose...WAY easier and faster to drop engine

Yep, he said some miserable things about that turbo I believe...

[Aronis]

that explains why my passenger site turbo bolts were not tight! One of them was only on a few turns. no leak apparently.

[Aronis]

More Progress, exhaust and turbos off.

[Aronis]

other side and rear.

[Aronis]

Engine and Transmission are separated. Time to rebuild.

[Bigglezworth]

Good. How wet was that rear seal which spurred all this effort.

[Aronis]

Dripping. LOL

[Aronis]

Tried to take off the fly wheel today, and broke two bits. LOL....waiting on the Snap On Guy to come by for new tools.

The rear main seal is not fully exposed but may not be the source. There appears to be oil coming from higher up.

Wire Harness has a major issue with a segment of missing insulation over the main power wire about 1 inch long with exposed copper, amazing there has not been a fire.

Mike

This is getting expensive.

[DHall1]

The A4 lease for 399/mo is looking better and better.

Good luck with it....you will get it there.

[lswing]

This is getting expensive.

Keep in mind you're doing some repairs that have been 12 years in the making. Get these items fixed up and you'll be good for another 12 years! It becomes a restoration project at this point with all the aging/worn parts...

[Aronis]

LOL.....just orded parts.....so far $1600......he wanted new studs and nuts....$9.20 and $7.40 EACH, and 14 of them....prior mechanic striped several on the passenger side turbo...nice.....ordered 4 new ox sensors $199 each, engine mount $280, rear seal flange $280.....DAM! and the friggen wire harness needs a repair or replace and that thing is $1900.....so repair it dam it! LOL.....we may need to replace the head gaskets as well, waiting on next parts list. I may have to sell the car to pay for the repair. D'ooh!

[Aronis]

The A4 lease for 399/mo is looking better and better.

Good luck with it....you will get it there.


LOL, not until my current A4 is paid for, thank you, LOL.....08 convertible with 52,000 miles.

[ben916]

The A4 lease for 399/mo is looking better and better.


Blasphemy!!!!!

[SteveKen]

LOL.....just orded parts.....so far $1600......he wanted new studs and nuts....$9.20 and $7.40 EACH, and 14 of them....prior mechanic striped several on the passenger side turbo...nice.....ordered 4 new ox sensors $199 each, engine mount $280, rear seal flange $280.....DAM! and the friggen wire harness needs a repair or replace and that thing is $1900.....so repair it dam it! LOL.....we may need to replace the head gaskets as well, waiting on next parts list. I may have to sell the car to pay for the repair. D'ooh!

Don't forget 10 new bolts to mount the flex plate back onto the crank. They might be torque to yield and not reusable.

I'm a little uneasy when you first say the RMS is dripping and then state it's leaking up higher. Since you are ordering the parts, I'm assuming that you're doing all the work?

[DHall1]

Well the car is worth less than repairs so that will be enough of that talk.

I just bought #4 and i need the Bufkin. I will be ready to join the fun next week.


LOL.....just orded parts.....so far $1600......he wanted new studs and nuts....$9.20 and $7.40 EACH, and 14 of them....prior mechanic striped several on the passenger side turbo...nice.....ordered 4 new ox sensors $199 each, engine mount $280, rear seal flange $280.....DAM! and the friggen wire harness needs a repair or replace and that thing is $1900.....so repair it dam it! LOL.....we may need to replace the head gaskets as well, waiting on next parts list. I may have to sell the car to pay for the repair. D'ooh!

[DHall1]

Haha

I just added #4 RS6. Pretty sure i will never drive a A4.


Blasphemy!!!!!

[Aronis]

Blasphemy!!!!!

That made my day, Thanks Ben!

[Aronis]

Dhall1,

I beg to differ. The car is worth more than the repairs, I am looking at close to $5000 for the repair. Otherwise it is in excellent shape. What did you pay for #4??? and now you're going to do the Bufkin pipe? That's a good amount of work. My old pipe is out and is intact and we are putting in the aluminum Bufkin pipe.

I did new brakes last summer, repaired some other things, did the timing belt 10,000 miles ago, etc. If I get a year out of it then it will be well worth the repair cost. And if it gets past the first few weeks post repair without dying from some other issue, it should go for more than another year.

And what is wrong with an A4? That's my daily drive...I am almost insulted....almost but not quite.....keep going....LOL......just because it can't get out of its own way like a Legacy Wagon and the engine sounds like a John Deere tractor, it's still Quattro DAM IT! :)

Stevenken,

thanks for the heads up on the bolts. My mechanic is pretty particular so I am sure he will have me buying new ones. :)

Ben916,

Thank you, that quote made my day......

All,

There are a few RS7 lingering on the lot in Cicero, NY.....with a few more drops in the market....they may have to have a good sale.....:)

Mike

[Aronis]

I just looked at the 2017 A4 on Audiusa.com....very nice......LOL....loaded at $55,575.....and you can get the ventilated front seats! LOL....:)

[G2]

Due to the color would point the finger at trans fluid....input seal. OE fluid is usually greenish or amber. Looks greenish to me. Or get some Crackers and go taste testing...

The two "holes" that allow access to the rear pan bolts are good view points for checking the RMS. Oil will normally drizzle down from the inside.
If on the rack would use my nifty boroscope to look around.

The trans will tolerate about 1.5 qt fluid loss (from full) before starting to cavitate or slip. At 2 qts low the trans won't hold full engine torque will become rather noisy. Damage will result, but isn't always terminal.

If/when it comes apart replace both seals. Always. On any car.

Could always do a dye test.

[EINHORN]

Up Date: LOL There is no way that the dealer replaced the torque converter without pulling the engine. So if they claim they did without pulling the engine then did they actually replace the torque converter! Who knows!

Mine was replaced without pull.

[Bigglezworth]

Up Date: LOL There is no way that the dealer replaced the torque converter without pulling the engine. So if they claim they did without pulling the engine then did they actually replace the torque converter! Who knows!Tranny CAN be removed without removing the entire powerplant - this is a fact. All owners who have undertaken extreme mechanics like this though will ALL tell you that even though it is feasible - and has been done by a few - it's senseless do undertake such. It is significantly more sensible and likely even more time beneficial to remove the entire powerplant and separate once everything is out. The access woes and time constraints encountered dropping subframe, bracing, hanging, etc., to keep the engine still "somewhat inside" the engine compartment so that you can gain access to the fasteners to remove passenger turbo that in turn gains access to the last two bolts holding the tranny bellhousing to the engine can be a killer. Further, more simple maintenance repairs to basic things like valve cover gaskets and overall cleaning as an example can be undertaken much easier.

[Aronis]

I have had a chance to see what has to be accessed, so they did more than just drop the engine a few inches. lots has to be removed to get the transmission off, including passenger side Turbo....etc.....

[Aronis]

Intake is off...

[ttboost]

You paying by the hour? They are are slow? Taking 1 part a day off?

[Aronis]

Main Seal is not leaking but the flange around it is the source. :)

Yes, by the hour..going to cost $500,000 to fix the dam thing. LOL.....

:)

[hahnmgh63]

Gasket around the flange should never leak unless the bolts come loose? They don't have too much Torque on them. Makes me wonder if I should put a dab of Blue Locktite on mine since I just put a preventative new rear main seal on it before I bolt the flywheel on this weekend.

[lswing]

Main Seal is not leaking but the flange around it is the source. :)

Yes, by the hour..going to cost $500,000 to fix the dam thing. LOL.....

:)

Still less than a new RS7...and better looking!

[Aronis]

Still less than a new RS7...and better looking!

What, the new RS7 is only $120,000 or so, far less than $500,000.

LOL

Just ordered the next parts list, a more modest $397.

:)

[ttboost]

Yes, by the hour..going to cost $500,000 to fix the dam thing. LOL.....

:)

That was almost my estimate too....You'll have to hand that car down 3 generations to make it worth it...:lovl:

[Aronis]

I got an update from Doctor Evil....it will be One Million Dollars!

[Aronis]

The transmission does not appear to be leaking at all. We are changing the front and rear seals on that too.

[lswing]

I got an update from Doctor Evil....it will be One Million Dollars!

That's not a nice name for your mechanic...sounds like it's moving along well at least! Better to have the job done right and take some time.

[Aronis]

Actually, he is not Doctor Evil. I am.....

Parts is parts....first box of parts $1600.....

[Aronis]

I think the last few things will be the seals for the front and rear of the transmission.


I am on the fence about having all four drive axels changed, be another millions dollars but I'll be rid of the chatter on hard acceloration.


I had purchased all new flex brake lines from ECS about 6 months ago so I am going to have he swap those too.

Mike

[Aronis]

The leak is coming from the corner of the flange gasket where the gasket ends and the upper half of the oil pain meets with the engine block.

I assume there is another gasket that will be needed but my mechanic did not mention ordering one yet. We forgot to order the flange gasket, not sure why id was not packaged with the flange and seal. Doo'h.

Mike

17055 Passenger side (next to cut out for starter)

17056 Driver's side is leaking more I think

17054 The flange gasket, U shaped

17051 Timing is dead on, checked that since it's apart

17057 Jet Sump will be swapped since it's a Pain in the ass to get to and I guess these can get fouled up with time.

[Aronis]

The upper oil pain assembly uses a tube of sealant and not a gasket.....:)

[Aronis]

Turbos look good, just waiting on rebuild kit.

17059

[Aronis]

I spoke (typed) too soon as both turbines are trash. Part of the housing is cracked.

I ordered two new CHRA (Central Housing Rotating Assemblies).

So I'll end up with new turbos too. Mine were fairly degraded so there may actually be some more punch in the car once is all back together.

17060 See crack here.

17061 Deformed blades.

Mike

[Aronis]

New CHRA

17072

17073

[ddillenger]

Would you be interested in parting with the beat CHRA's? I don't want to pay much, but I like spare parts, and my buddy does great work building these things.

[SteveKen]

I spoke (typed) too soon as both turbines are trash. Part of the housing is cracked.

I ordered two new CHRA (Central Housing Rotating Assemblies).

So I'll end up with new turbos too. Mine were fairly degraded so there may actually be some more punch in the car once is all back together.

17060 See crack here.

17061 Deformed blades.

Mike

Was there any way you could tell that these were in bad shape during normal or hard driving?

Just wondering????

[Aronis]

Would you be interested in parting with the beat CHRA's? I don't want to pay much, but I like spare parts, and my buddy does great work building these things.

No problem, I'll box them up, PM your address, you just have to pay for shipping. :)

Mike

[Aronis]

Turbo Rebuilding underway. He is maticulous with the cleaning of every part before reassembly.

17079

17080

17081

[Aronis]

Upper half of oil pain is off, flange is off, ready for valve cover gasket replacement and then begin rebuilding the whole thing.



17086

17087

17088

[Aronis]

17089

on stand.....nice to have the right equipment :)

[Aronis]

Hopefully it's now time to put stuff back together.....last item opened, replace valve cover gaskets AGAIN! Was done not too long ago but one is leaking.

17104

17105

17106 No OF COURSE I am paranoid about the electric secondary coolant pump. LOL....

[Aronis]

update. Rear seal and flange are on.

Today he was working on the oil pan upper and lower and oil cooler.

We got a great look at the cylinders and the surfaces look new. No groves or evidence of wear. Timing change looks fine as does the tensioner. He was cleaning every speck of the old sealant from the surfaces of the oil pain parts, etc, before reassembly.

17114

17115

17116

17117

17118

[Aronis]

Update:

The engine is off the engine stand and back on the assembly table. intake and exhaust are back on and the flywheel is back on. The wire harness has been rebuilt.

[Aronis]

17135


Inside of oil cooler....Bufkin pipe fit perfectly.

[lswing]

Glad to see it coming together! You did cam tensioner pads a while back right? Cheap and easy to do since it's open, just wanted to double check.

[Aronis]

Yes, they were done when I had the new intercooler and valve cover gaskets done. LOL.. I was not charged for the parts....love that!

Wire harness was fixed also.

FYI, Iswing, the tuner in Syracuse (Cantech) is now an APR dealer (new since last June).

Mike

[Gentleman]

Just read the entire thread while panicking since I have a mystery leak.

Different location, drips just inside and in front of drivers front tire.

after looking under the car tonight I can see the drivers side cv is leaking (inner side)

and I have two lights on the dash- traction control and ABS.

Need to to do more research.


But- your thread is awesome to read. Time for more Bourbon.

[Aronis]

Gentleman,

Those darn CV boots are a mess!

You have to figure out what fluid it is. Color, odor, taste,etc.

Rotten Egg smell us usually the differential fluid which can leak out at the output seal of the transmission on the side where the front shaft comes out. I had a leak just like you are describing on the passenger side. The drive axel on the passenger side is a little easier to remove. The sell all sizes of replacement seals to accommodate for wear in that part. It's a dark fowl smelling thick fluid.

Oil from that side can be as simple as the valve cover gasket and the drivers side is the easy side to replace, but after seeing the engine out I can see that the insert for the dipstick can also leak as that seal is only an o-ring.

Power steering pump and reservoir are on that side too as well as the master brake cylinder.

Mike

[Aronis]

Cleaning up parts....

17143

17144

17145

One Fuel Injector is broken (little nylon ring above the O-ring) snapped....replacement $147.....sweet.....

[Aronis]

Engine and Transmission back together....waiting on one Fuel injector.....apparently not easy to obtain....

17152

[Aronis]

Got one.....LOL....17160

[Aronis]

Progress...step by step....

17173

[ttboost]

Got one.....LOL....17160

I think I have a whole set sitting on my tool box...

[Aronis]

I think I have a whole set sitting on my tool box...


LOL, they are pricy LOL...

Mike

[Aronis]

Turbo's back on both sides......

17202

17203

[lswing]

Good to see your mechanic is back from vacation! Just kidding, glad it's going well.

Might be at C&C at Saratoga Auto Museum April 16th...get that thing together!

[Aronis]

He was in Mexico! Needed R&R. He is getting ready for Porsche Race Season and all the work that brings him, so he wants my car out of his shop! LOL..

Mike

April 16 is a possible. not on call that weekend.....can I come with my 08 A4 2.0 Turbo...>:).....that RS6 is not going to be finished until 2017 model year.

[Aronis]

Getting closer, next is wire harness and under frame......

17205

[Aronis]

Going back in on Monday.....

17206

[Aronis]

Getting closer....


17221

[ttboost]

Closer...to....bankruptcy?

[Aronis]

Closer...to....bankruptcy?
quite possibly...:)

[Aronis]

Back where it belongs.....now all those hoses and fluids.....and then the tranny service....then brake lines....

17223

[Aronis]

new serpentine belt going on, I guess thats progress...LOL....

[Aronis]

17346

closer....

[ttboost]

...it's obvious now that you are paying by the part....

[lswing]

Can I have that radiator since you're not using it....need one. Dang, you're almost there! Just two more months....ouch....

[Aronis]

it took less time to design, develop and test the original engine...LOL....

but I have great faith in the mechanic....

Mike

[Aronis]

17357

Getting FLUIDS today!

LOL

[Aronis]

Iswing, my radiator is back on my car, you can't have it!

Mike

[Aronis]

Update; plan for today was to plug in the battery and turn the car on to do a scan to look for errors.....I did not hear back from my tech....perhaps it will be running on Monday.

Mike

[Aronis]

Update; Pressure tested the coolant system, found a leak at the driver's side turbo, tighten, and now coolant system holds pressure. Coolant going in now.

:)

Mike

[Aronis]

1739217393173941739517396

small stack of parts left to go....LOL...

[s8prtotype]

Don't know how you guys put these things back together dirty, i seriously waited even longer just to get all my stuff powdercoated. I DONT LIKE UGLY

[DHall1]

I would have towels in those rabbit holes

[Aronis]

LOL, I don't have unlimited funds......I keep it clean enough.



Don't know how you guys put these things back together dirty, i seriously waited even longer just to get all my stuff powdercoated. I DONT LIKE UGLY

[Aronis]

17397

It's Alive!

[DHall1]

But the transmission is now broke.

Lol

sorry I couldn't resist.

That is great news

[Aronis]

LOL. Thank you.

[Aronis]

Engine ran for 30 minutes, no oil leaks, just one small coolant leak at the drivers side turbo, was a bitch to get at but Jeff did it. So no oil leak, no water leak. Runs great.

Now onto the transmission service.


174031740417405

[bethridg]

Engine ran for 30 minutes, no oil leaks, just one small coolant leak at the drivers side turbo, was a bitch to get at but Jeff did it. So no oil leak, no water leak. Runs great.

Now onto the transmission service.


174031740417405

That sure is a funny looking 01E:incar:

Seriously though, you have the patience of a saint.

[Aronis]

That sure is a funny looking 01E:incar:

Seriously though, you have the patience of a saint.

LOL....

A manual swap would be nice....my mechanic's are both up for it! Jeff brought on another mechanic to work for him. He has a 1999 A6 4.2 and want's to put a six speed in his! LOL.

If I do anything else it will be a paint job.

Mike

[Aronis]

Test drive done. All is well accept for implausible signal from temp sensor. EGT.

Picking it up Monday. Getting it detailed before I pick it up. 6 months of shop grime and dust. LOL.

Mike

[Aronis]

:w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w::w :


LJKFP*O&O&*()D&F*&)(*&*DF


FUEL PUMP JUST FAILED


>>>>>>asP()*&P()*&@(*HFP(*&@)HPJH(D*Y&F(P*H#@FP(*Y&D)F&^(*Y

Mike........

[lswing]

Really, what the F, bummer. I don't understand how the EGT wasn't fixed also, did he not scan the car? And how rare is it that a fuel pump fails, hmmmm, hardly ever hear of that on here. I'm going to hope for your sake it's the external one, although it's a $800 part. Look at my threads on the Bosch 044, total package and parts for around $300, still not installed.

[Aronis]

He ordered one from Pelican parts, $311......has the access all exposed and the old one out already. He did that Recall service a few years ago.

I think because the pump was sitting unused for 6 months....perhaps..

I did not replace the EGT because it was $500 for a set. I know they can be replaced without pulling the probe from the exhaust, just replace the circuit board at the connector. I did not find any reports of the probe end going bad. So I did not change that part. It did not throw any more codes after driving another 20 miles or so and leaving it running for a while. Just the dead fuel pump.

Getting the car detailed no Monday and hopefully the pump will arrive early next week.

Mike

[bethridg]

Which fuel pump? In-tank or external inline pump?

External inline pump has a very flimsy connector. Slightest pressure when reconnecting could break it. I broke mine while replacing the fuel filter. Could see it arc when I pushed the connector down then finally broke it in two. Symptoms were miss/backfire/hesitation under load and fuel pressure codes in vagcom; car idled just fine though.

Bosch 044 swap has been documented and revisited in other threads recently.

[Aronis]

thanks for that information. I don't know which pump failed. I am not sure if Jeff knows that there are two pumps. Is this a comment setup for an audi?

Mike

[Aronis]

Jeff said the in tank pump is the "Pump" and the other part is an inline filter.....

I am trying to find more information on this configuration. I searched and found in tank pump and a line pump. I will need more data to show him. Need to test both pumps I guess.

Mike

[lswing]

Jeff said the in tank pump is the "Pump" and the other part is an inline filter.....

I am trying to find more information on this configuration. I searched and found in tank pump and a line pump. I will need more data to show him. Need to test both pumps I guess.

Mike

Dang, how does he not know these details...I can understand, but damn. Anyhow, have him look at some of these manuals, shows pump configuration.

http://audirssix.com/index.php/extras

We shall now name you Saint Aronis for your blessed dealing with this Mike!!!:)

[Bigglezworth]

In tank pump is the transfer pump. External pump is the high pressure pump. A car can idle fine without the external pump from just the intank pressure, but as soon as you push the pedal down and incease the demand for more fuel, the car will start to sputter out.

[Aronis]

Thank you for the information. I will forward it to Jeff. We will have to figure out which pump is dead or both..LOL.

[Aronis]

It's an electronic gremlin.

[Aronis]

Ok, here we go.....picking up car today....it's being detailed as I type. ECM all fixed (very fast turn around on that)......total......too much......more to follow....

Mike

(PS. the M2 if FRIGGEN AMAZING...just saying.....365 hp my A$$...LOL)

[lswing]

Hope so Mike!!! Yes, that M2 should have some kick being about 1,000 pounds lighter? Fun...

[Aronis]

She is home.....running great! Sounds and feels perfect.




17501

[Aronis]

Went out to gas it up for the first time in 6 months...(great gas mileage the last 6 months).

Still makes me smile....:)

Mike

[Aronis]

Day, three, running great, appears to be at full power!

Mike