Rear Main (Crankshaft) seal

[hahnmgh63]

Just FYI, I can confirm that the Timken 716102 is the replacement seal for the rear main seal. It is listed in their catalog as the main seal replacement for most Audi's. The seal is actually approx 2mm narrower so I just split the difference when pressing it in. I got mine from Amazon for about $20 delivered, much cheaper than the whole assembly from Audi for list of $350 and only discounted down to about $250. You will need the gasket for the flange when re-installing which is 077103181H for about $13.
http://www.timken.com/EN-US/products/Documents/1990_and_Newer_Bearing_and_Seal_Application_Catalo g.pdf

[Aronis]

thanks, now if that seal could be changed without pulling the transmission off LOL....

BlueDevil anyone?

[TozoM8]

I bought one of those seals in case I run into a leaky one and after 100+ trans removal I have yet to find one leaking. Leaks are coming from the valve cover and run down onto the bell housing behind the flex plate.

[hahnmgh63]

When I swapped out the trans years ago I felt guilty not swapping out the RMS. But since I was doing the conversion I thought I would do it this time but now Tozo just jinxed me, the new seal will probably leak :)

[ttboost]

I was gonna say, it will leak immediately...

[SteveKen]

Just FYI, I can confirm that the Timken 716102 is the replacement seal for the rear main seal. It is listed in their catalog as the main seal replacement for most Audi's. The seal is actually approx 2mm narrower so I just split the difference when pressing it in. I got mine from Amazon for about $20 delivered, much cheaper than the whole assembly from Audi for list of $350 and only discounted down to about $250. You will need the gasket for the flange when re-installing which is 077103181H for about $13.
http://www.timken.com/EN-US/products/Documents/1990_and_Newer_Bearing_and_Seal_Application_Catalo g.pdf

I sent you a PM on this but will throw it out to the others here, too.

How did this Timken P/N work out for you? I've seen that the reviews of similar seals (not the exact Timken one) have bad reviews and leak immediately.

The felt gasket piece seems to be specific to the OME one, no?

Also, did you have to remove the RMS housing to replace this or did you do it with it in place? Do you have any pictures of yours leaking? Did it look like this?

http://www.kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/Travis/2018_03_27/20180327_230207.jpg

http://www.kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/Travis/2018_03_27/20180327_230301.jpg

[Aronis]

Mine was leaking from the actual seam between the bottom of the flange and the upper housing of the oil pain. The seal itself was fine. I replaced the entire flange. It was $297 from ECS, I'll have to check the parts list. The $20 vs $300 debate on the part is just foolish as the labor involved in repairing this leak is thousands. I would not dare replace it with anything but OEM.

Mike

[Aronis]

18487

Flange was $297 from ECS tuning and the gasket for it was $14.

18488

18489

[DHall1]

Now we have a can of worms.

[Aronis]

Now we have a can of worms.

LOL, DHall1, you have "1,2,3,4,5,6, maybe 7 and 8", rear main seals to replace. LOL.

Mike

[DHall1]

Knocking on wood every day.

[SteveKen]

18487

Flange was $297 from ECS tuning and the gasket for it was $14.

18488

18489

Since Bentley Publishers is in the stone ages with their software, do you happen to have the torque specs for this?

I think it's 10 Nm for the ones attaching from the back side (between the gasket) but I'm not sure what they are on the underside (between RTV).

[Aronis]

Here you go


18492


18493


18491

[Aronis]

SteveKen, I have access to the online version of the bentley manual. If you need pages let me know and I'll email you the PDFS


Mike

[SteveKen]

Here you go


18492


18493


18491

SteveKen, I have access to the online version of the bentley manual. If you need pages let me know and I'll email you the PDFS


Mike

Thanks both of you. Mine only works with XP and I've not tried to run an XP terminal or contact Bentley for online access ...

[Aronis]

I spoke with the Bentley people. They are apparently stuck with XP. Windows just blows in their backward compatibility department. Even trying to run XP compatibility mode will not let the Bentley stuff run. You need to run an Emulator or a copy of XP.

They are going to release the full Web Version soon, it is in BETA and I was allowed access to it. It works GREAT! LOVE IT.

Mike

[SteveKen]

I spoke with the Bentley people. They are apparently stuck with XP. Windows just blows in their backward compatibility department. Even trying to run XP compatibility mode will not let the Bentley stuff run. You need to run an Emulator or a copy of XP.

They are going to release the full Web Version soon, it is in BETA and I was allowed access to it. It works GREAT! LOVE IT.

Mike

I've used the same online setup for the B6 platform.

[Wide-66]

Timken installed with new gasket for reused flange. No leaks 16k miles knock on wood. :)


18494

[Aronis]

Timken installed with new gasket for reused flange. No leaks 16k miles knock on wood. :)


18494

That would make sense since reinstalling the flange involves new gasket and new sealant for lower edge. The metal is not the problem, the liquid sealant between its bottom edge and the upper oil pain is the issue. That is where mine leaked.

Mike

[hahnmgh63]

When I did mine (with the Timken seal), as Aronis said, the lower sealant wasn't very pliable anymore but pretty hard, that would also be my first thought as to where it would leak. Hopefully the Timken seal will be fine, a big company with a good reputation. Of course I used a new gasket on the back of the flange but for the bottom I think I used Permatex Ultra Black, the oil resistant one.

[Wide-66]

Ya i agree the bottom is where mine leaked...just saying I have had no issue with the timken as that was something of question in this thread. I used ultra grey i think for the flange to upper oil pan. :)

[SFJ_RS6]

A question for hahnmgh63, Wide-66, and anybody else who has used the Timken 716102 rear main seal replacement. Now that time as passed, are you having issues with it leaking? I know you really can't determine whether a subsequent leak in that area is caused by the rear main seal, or the flange gasket, or the flange-to-oil sump seam. But if you're not having oil leaks, it would give reassurance about the Timken seal.

In tracing my oil leak, when I got the drive/flex plate off, it looks like I have leakage around the paper flange gasket and the flange-to-oil sump seam. The RMS seal itself was not leaking, but was collateral damage from heating the triple-square bolts that hold the drive plate to the end of the crankshaft.

The Audi flange and gasket are currently ~$350 from ESC; I got a Timken 716102 on Amazon for $21. If the Timken is performing well, I'd go that route.

Related question - has anybody used Loctite 515 or 518 anaerobic gasket maker (instead of Permatex RTV) to seal the bottom seam where the RMS flange meets the oil sump? An indy tech recommended the Loctite, but I'm wondering about how difficult it would be to remove the residue if the RMS flange needed to be taken off again in the future.

Thanks for your feedback.
Steve

[hahnmgh63]

Haven't noticed any leak. I've been away from home for over a month and won't be home until the middle of May, really haven't been driving the car much in the last 6 months. I'll probably put it on the lift when I get home and I'll take a look. One of my Oil Cooler pipes that threads onto the oil filter housing is seeping a little, might be just a little loose. Transmission/bellhousing was dry last time I looked. As I mentioned above I think I used the Black Ultra oil resistant RTV when I did mine with the new gasked for the back of the flange. I did used some break cleaner to clean the bottom surface where it attaches to the pan really well before I put the sealant on.

[RS8]

You don't have to buy the whole flange as mentioned, you can buy only the OEM sealing,
here it is with part number:

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19182&stc=1

[RS8]

And you can buy "copy" of it from different manufactures here you got some part numbers:

Reinz = 81-35916-00
elring = 728.880
Ajusa = 15083100
Corteco = 20033872B
Goetze = 50-319551-00

[hahnmgh63]

For a piece of mind, and for basically the same price I'd be tempted to go with the OEM part for a piece of mind although Timken is definitely a reputable seal and bearing manufacturer. I would say the most important item is the proper seal installation. Just tapping it in a little at a time here and there is not the proper method and can induce small warpage of the seal. May not leak right away but it probably won't last 100k.

[SFJ_RS6]

Thanks for your responses hahnmgh63 and RS8, very helpful info.

hahnmgh63 - I'm glad to hear you're staying leak free to this point with the Timken. Your point about proper install is good. I'm planning to use my shop press.
RS8 - thanks for the availability clarification and the part number cross-references.

The manufacturer's mark on my original seal is C.F.W., which I investigated and found is Corteco (size is 85x105x12mm). Using the cross-number from RS8 I found the OEM Corteco 20033872B at AutoHausAZ for about $12.

Interesting difference in the construction of the seals. The original Audi/Corteco has a single, inner rubber sealing edge and an outer edge made of a material that looks somewhat like felt. The Timken has a more common construction with double rubber sealing edges with a stainless steel spring around the inner edge.

I haven't decided yet whether to use anaerobic Loctite gasket maker or Permatex Black Ultra for the flange. I may experiment with each of them before I choose and reassemble.

Thanks again,
Steve

[Wide-66]

I just saw this now. I made it about 25k miles in the RS6 then pulled the motor for a swap into an avant. I have no plans to do the RMS again as its leak free. I have since done 1 S8 and 2 S6 using the same Timken seal. As stated its all about proper install to the flange and prep to the surfaces.