This after-market intake makes no sense to me

[LaserSVT]

Sorry as I am still learning a whole lot about these cars, like dont use parts store parts and as to what can do what but as I was looking at motor mounts (dont need them, was just curious about the Sterns) I ran across this intake and it seems stupid to me. See I build lots of performance cars and know to avoid taking that blazing hot engine compartment air and ramming it into the engine. Colder air = more power. Many times I have removed metal intake tubes with an open element filter thats in the engine bay and replaced them with a composite tube and fender/front air intake and seen 5-15 rwhp on the chasis dyno.
So this filter setup just seems wrong. Also now the diverter valves are venting to the atmosphere and I am fairly sure our computers dont like that. So am I missing something? Are these intakes worth a damn? I havent seen any pictures of them on here so I assume I am right in my thinking. Please educate me if I am wrong.

http://www.apikol.com/index.php/products/audi/rs6/c5-rs6-intake-system.html


http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x135/orange92gt/rs6_intake_zoom_23_zpsslebnmux.jpg (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/orange92gt/media/rs6_intake_zoom_23_zpsslebnmux.jpg.html)

[Bigglezworth]

Entirely garbage - period.

[hahnmgh63]

Doesn't make a bit of sense to me either. And yes, the diverter valves venting back into the intake helps keep the Turbos spooled too (why waste that air?).

[fukinavit]

Entirely garbage - period.

100% agree, useless and ugly, people buy these just to say they have it, total waste of money

[ttboost]

I was working on a design very nearly identical to this, but my filters were enclosed. It would be all aluminum, so heat would dissipate, but still suck cooler air form the original air ducts. Definitely room for improvement.

[hahnmgh63]

Now if you could put a large round cylindrical piece of plexiglass around the filters and use the ducted air from the front to surround it you could get cool air and full Bling. I'm not a fan of any oiled filter with Mass Flow sensors though.

[RKturbo]

Yeah I am not sure this would be a good idea from a performance stand point. The turbo is going to pull in the air a plenty and I would think incoming air temp and not volume would be a better performer.

BTW, I know what some folks have had issues with oiled (K/N) type filters on cars with MAF sensors but have ran them on everything from C55, G35, my truck and lil beast and have never replaced a maf.

[LaserSVT]

Ive run oiled on a couple hundred cars without issue. Its the over-oiling of them during cleaning where you have an issue. Also when I open them up they spend a day with a shop towel wrapped around them before installation. K&N really packs it in there from the factory. Never had to replace a MAF. Well I take that back, I have had to but just because the Sniper MAF meter is garbage.

[Smiler]

:doh::brag:

16771

[makaveli42]

:doh::brag:

16771

i have one too buddy! I love it and don't care what anyone says. No has posted dyno numbers with and without to show anything even tho people say they did it and blah blah blah. It made the turbos so much louder it was worth it to me.

[LaserSVT]

I will admit, to hear the diverters and intake noises I do like that idea. As a mechanic I love hearing the various engine noises. Its just now you are sucking in hot air and thats not good.

I am curious about the diverters now. Does having them vent to the atmosphere (well through those filters) cause any idle issues? Or off throttle stumble or anything like that? Notice any turbo spool changes?

[lswing]

i have one too buddy! I love it and don't care what anyone says. No has posted dyno numbers with and without to show anything even tho people say they did it and blah blah blah. It made the turbos so much louder it was worth it to me.

ha, that's why your drag times are slow:)

[bethridg]

I am curious about the diverters now. Does having them vent to the atmosphere (well through those filters) cause any idle issues? Or off throttle stumble or anything like that? Notice any turbo spool changes?

What? There is no change in how the DVs work. Still dump back into the intake post MAF. They are just stating you can hear the recirculation whereas the stock airbox muffles it.

[LaserSVT]

I really need more time under my hood. For some reason I thought the.... nevermind, I was wrong at any point. LOL

[makaveli42]

ha, that's why your drag times are slow:)

lol. Nahh. Still can't figure out why I'm slower than most. 12.6 is the fastest I can get it with a 1.9 60'. I like to blame it on the 2200 DA. Give me a -1700 like the track in Jersey where RS6s run 11s and I'll be low 12s where I belong

[fukinavit]

puke:cant believe you would ruin that beautiful underhood appearance with that rice mod. regardless of power gains/turbo noise etc it just looks like a 16 year old made it for his civic! I love the carbon airbox, I mean we all paid a price for that.

[Bigglezworth]

I was working on a design very nearly identical to this, but my filters were enclosed. It would be all aluminum, so heat would dissipate, but still suck cooler air form the original air ducts. Definitely room for improvement.That is what is entirely missing from the Apikol unit. The open air filters are the problem. There is a host of heat contained in the engine compartment which contributes to heat soak. IF the filters were inside canisters that were ducted from a cold air source, then there is no problem with the design. Another member talked a while back about trying to pull in cold air through the cowling behind the firewall where the coolant tank and brake booster are located in. Not sure where that approach ended up as you would need to still account for the air filters prior to the MAF's if you still keep the MAF's in the same location. With there being no documented tests for any of these types of mods, I would look to stick to the laws of physics for compressing air. These laws being known, ensuring a cooler charge always leads to improved power output. The use of a water/meth injection system addresses that well and has been proven.

[LaserSVT]

That is what is entirely missing from the Apikol unit. The open air filters are the problem. There is a host of heat contained in the engine compartment which contributes to heat soak. IF the filters were inside canisters that were ducted from a cold air source, then there is no problem with the design. Another member talked a while back about trying to pull in cold air through the cowling behind the firewall where the coolant tank and brake booster are located in. Not sure where that approach ended up as you would need to still account for the air filters prior to the MAF's if you still keep the MAF's in the same location. With there being no documented tests for any of these types of mods, I would look to stick to the laws of physics for compressing air. These laws being known, ensuring a cooler charge always leads to improved power output. The use of a water/meth injection system addresses that well and has been proven.
I wish there were some data as to even if our OEM intakes are restrictive.

I found a few year old thread here with another company making a similar intake but with enclosed filters. It looked promising but then just fizzled out and no numbers were ever stated as to what to expect. At $1200 each it seemed a bit much if there was no power gain. Or even worse if there was a power loss. You cant have a collection chamber like that before a MAF meter. Too much turbulence. That chamber would need to be after the MAFs to get a proper reading.

[Smiler]

puke:cant believe you would ruin that beautiful underhood appearance with that rice mod. regardless of power gains/turbo noise etc it just looks like a 16 year old made it for his civic! I love the carbon airbox, I mean we all paid a price for that.


Mine is done by previous owner...
The sound is amazing and i think looks ok.
Need to mount the the front carbonplate though.

Would be better if i made a "half cylinder" under each filter?

And the temperature is not that high here in Sweden... maby a smaller "problem" here.

[Turbowned]

There are a couple intakes on the market that "look" decent; Dahlback Racing, Fluid Motor Union come to mind. None of them have dyno charts to back them up. Hard to justify spending $700-1000 (or $5,000 in the case of the Gruppe M intake) for questionable power gains at best.

You could mimic the Champion Racing intake setup; I bet it works well (note the vented hood):

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/1073ChampionRS6_07-med.jpg

[hahnmgh63]

16773
Another pic of the Champion RS6 engine.

[lswing]

16773
Another pic of the Champion RS6 engine.

Fresh air in, box seals up against hood to prevent warm air, perfect.

Good to see they kept the high speed aero wiper...

[CBeau]

There are a couple intakes on the market that "look" decent; Dahlback Racing, Fluid Motor Union come to mind. None of them have dyno charts to back them up. Hard to justify spending $700-1000 (or $5,000 in the case of the Gruppe M intake) for questionable power gains at best.

You could mimic the Champion Racing intake setup; I bet it works well (note the vented hood):



I used to work in professional motorsports and had several friends who worked on those Dave Maraj / Champion / Speed World Challenge RS6s. I can see the car in picture was a Michael Galati car.... what a cool ass bad ass dude!!! You want to drive / race with him you better bring your A game ++++ and a spare set of balls. And If it rains.... just stay in the pits. I think other driver was Randy Pobst, much more clinical but came up grass roots SCCA amateur to Pro racing. Randy went on to do more pro level than Michael did, not sure why. Maybe family or just par for course motorsports $$ BS??

But intake / design wise, I can assure you those Speed World Challenge Cars were homologated down to the square cm. of airbox / intake space. In other words, don't look at that as best / most efficient design, surely it was rules / homologation restricted. That said, whatever they had for what they were allowed to do.... bet your ass it worked.

[LaserSVT]

Very much enjoyed this video of the two RS6s kicking everyones butt.

https://vimeo.com/93262303

[marklar182]

Only issue I ever saw with the stock intake box is the intake duct inlets are a little small (engineers worked with the lack of space they had), and the top cover is not rigid enough. When you go WOT the cover sucks down as the motor pulls in all that air. This limits the volume a bit.

I believe there is a Dyno vid somewhere on here that you can see this clearly.

[Bigglezworth]

Only issue I ever saw with the stock intake box is the intake duct inlets are a little small (engineers worked with the lack of space they had), and the top cover is not rigid enough. When you go WOT the cover sucks down as the motor pulls in all that air. This limits the volume a bit.

I believe there is a Dyno vid somewhere on here that you can see this clearly.Another situation whereupon there is unfortunately no hard data/tests to support one way or the other. Don't know anyone that has the $ or set-up to support all these different types of comparisons which is why we continue to be theorizing. In consideration of a number of owners that have extracted and additional 100-150hp out of the base engine set-up with an aftermarket tune using OEM air cleaner assembly, OEM filters, OEM turbos, OEM injectors, etc., would IMO suggest that there is still more than adequate air supply.

[LaserSVT]

Those ducts do seem pretty firm. AEM was making these plastic CAI tubes for a bit that the 03/04 Cobra guys were using but when pushing past 12 psi (which is a simple $50 pulley change on that car) they would completely collapse on themselves. LOL They did not stay on the market long. I forget if its Subaru or the EVO that has that problem too.

[LaserSVT]

Did find a video of an S3 doing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8cIkkKr7J4