Transmission Slip Question

[orcars6]

Ok. I have now moved on from leaks (so I thought) and other variables to this new issue...just this last weekend on two occasions: when putting into D from stationary position (on slight incline) tranny hesitated before engaging and locking into gear then all was normal; another occasion just yesterday... tried 'kick down' from 0 speed in D and it felt like a rev. up for a split second before anything happened and then lunged forward after what felt like a slip???

I know other posts are very similar but mine is only from stationary position thus far???

The vehicle is at 70,XXX miles last on VIN are 905258- I have owned for almost 2 yrs. and recently ( 2 weeks ago) repaired through dealer left front axle shaft leaking seal- any correlation as I never had any slip or similar experience with tranny in the past?

TC or tranny??? Help, Thx.

[Other_Erik]

Was the car cold when you experienced slip/lurch?
Stock TCU will try to help warm up the trans/fluid and TC by letting it slip momentarily when cold (fluid temp <150F or so). I thought I was having TC issues when 1-2 and 2-3 shifts were over-revving maybe 150RPM and then harder than normal shift with <50% throttle, turns out it's just the RS6 trying to protect itself and keep from grenading the trans pushing cold fluids around.

Axle shaft leak should have nothing to do with it unless the stealership pulled the axle and just let fluid drain without bothering to top up.

O_E

PS - you'll never move on from leaks, just keep plugging them, doing $X,000 gasket jobs, and other such fun. Don't forget to lube up the wallet-hole!

[lswing]

Tried kick down from 0 speed??? Personally I never go near the kick down, it's just too tough on the trans, and you can down shift with paddles in any setting.

The trans will go when it's time, not much you can do. For me it always slipped under normal driving before failure.

[orcars6]

Car was not cold on either occasion. Stealership had topped off fluids after repair.


Was the car cold when you experienced slip/lurch?
Stock TCU will try to help warm up the trans/fluid and TC by letting it slip momentarily when cold (fluid temp <150F or so). I thought I was having TC issues when 1-2 and 2-3 shifts were over-revving maybe 150RPM and then harder than normal shift with <50% throttle, turns out it's just the RS6 trying to protect itself and keep from grenading the trans pushing cold fluids around.

Axle shaft leak should have nothing to do with it unless the stealership pulled the axle and just let fluid drain without bothering to top up.

O_E

PS - you'll never move on from leaks, just keep plugging them, doing $X,000 gasket jobs, and other such fun. Don't forget to lube up the wallet-hole!

[EINHORN]

vag com look for dreaded TC code, other_Erik, thanks for the insight into the cold shifting.

[G2]

An old trans filter that's loaded up with debris can/will mimic those symptoms. Fluid restriction is a great way to (help) kill a trans. Steep driveways can also cause shifting/engagement delays. Leaks are bad too. At 2 qts low the trans will cavitate and will slip at part throttle, including becoming rather noisy in the sump area.

-- I'd triple check the fluid level. The Audi tuner specialist (well known, designs cool parts even) in LA who serviced my RS6 (prior owner) didn't know how to check the fluid level. I found out the hard way on a 1,000 mile drive home. The dealership may not have actually checked-- it's a bit of a process.

.....Dealership tech may have enjoyed a rather BRISK "test drive" after said services......some issues just need a shove into the limelight.

I only drive cars hard enough to verify my work will take abuse if needed, under the correct circumstances. A car like the RS6 needs to be understood....

[orcars6]

G2, thanks for insight; great points....I plan to return to have them verify and check fluid levels. The slip is sporadically noticeable on stationary launch when engaging into D position. What should I specifically suggest tech. do to verify trans. oil levels?

I had not had any slip for 2 yrs. prior to this front axle shaft leak fix...so I am not pleased at this point.

[orcars6]

Yes, for the other responses....I will have them look for any codes as well!

[DHall1]

second opinion is in order. I would not take it back to the same place. just have the transmission fluid properly checked from a cold start.

[lswing]

I had not had any slip for 2 yrs. prior to this front axle shaft leak fix...so I am not pleased at this point.

Wait, so why did they ever touch the trans? Does that front axle shaft repair concern the output from the trans? So assuming they had to drain all the fluid, and add new back in, something went wrong. As stated, very specific fill procedure, along with filter and trimming of pickup, and fluid type. Take it to a recommended independent Audi shop that can recite how to check/fill the fluid off the top of their head.

[hahnmgh63]

When changing the front axle shaft seal you DO NOT need to drain the transmission fluid. Just the front differential needs topping off.

[lswing]

Car was not cold on either occasion. Stealership had topped off fluids after repair.

So did they touch your trans fluid or not? Sounds they should not have, and a simple top off shouldn't cause this issue. I'd lean towards G2's idea of them taking it on a spirited test drive...

[G2]

I have owned for almost 2 yrs. and recently ( 2 weeks ago) repaired through dealer left front axle shaft leaking seal-
.

Was it the left or ride side seal? Usually the right side leaks...I always change the oil

Either way, the trans needs to be regularly serviced. If not, I could see how a hard test drive could push it over the proverbial edge.

Plug in, read any codes and data. The trans temp sensor will cause shifting issues. 1/2 the RS6's I see have the code and related sporadic shifting quirks.

-- how many miles did the dealer drive it?..

[orcars6]

It was the left side interestingly...I will learn more today when fluids are checked. It could very well be that the tranny slip has nothing to do with the leak fix but in the last 3 or so repairs more issues and repairs were necessary after the initial repair was performed. Previously, I have not had any tranny issues whatsoever!!! Is there a code for the tranny slip/ not necessarily I understand...what's the correction/ partial re-build / parts replacement/ complete re-build...what's the criteria?

Also, can I live with this problem...and will it eventually become more noticeable in shifting and at other speeds...again currently it is only evident from 0 speed launch and only once or so per. day on a busy daily routine. Not bad but I worry!

[lswing]

It was the left side interestingly...I will learn more today when fluids are checked. It could very well be that the tranny slip has nothing to do with the leak fix but in the last 3 or so repairs more issues and repairs were necessary after the initial repair was performed. Previously, I have not had any tranny issues whatsoever!!! Is there a code for the tranny slip/ not necessarily I understand...what's the correction/ partial re-build / parts replacement/ complete re-build...what's the criteria?

Also, can I live with this problem...and will it eventually become more noticeable in shifting and at other speeds...again currently it is only evident from 0 speed launch and only once or so per. day on a busy daily routine. Not bad but I worry!

Sometimes things just keep coming up with these cars. I would find a new shop. But also, you should have known exactly what was done fluid wise. I track this stuff carefully to make sure we're on the same page with all work done.

Trans usually does not throw a code, even when slipping horribly. My first one slipped in 3rd one day...then a little a month later....then one day leaving a light it basically detonated, revs spiking and gears clunking, at 92k miles. I paid $3500 for an upgraded rebuild, and was around $3500 labor and misc parts. Costs seem to be anywhere from $5-10k total depending on rebuild, shop, and other costs.

If you're giving it hard gas, I.E. launch or kick down, then it's a torque heavy point, which is when it will slip.

[orcars6]

Ok, differential oil full and seal in tact. Transmission oil contains metal particles thus we have reached the point of a complete rebuild??? $$$

[hahnmgh63]

It's been said over and over on here that the ZF5HP24 is junk. And not just here, some different versions of the 5HP24/5HP24A on the BMW, Jaguar forums too. Audi A8 guys hate them, VW Phaeton owners hate them. I upgraded to a better rebuilt 517 transmission but it is still really junk. If I had a 6HP26/28 I would probably be happy, less weight, one more gear, better shifts, etc... but that is a route that really only a large effort could overcome due to the electronics involved so I'm going the manual 6 speed route.

[s8prtotype]

It's been said over and over on here that the ZF5HP24 is junk. And not just here, some different versions of the 5HP24/5HP24A on the BMW, Jaguar forums too. Audi A8 guys hate them, VW Phaeton owners hate them. I upgraded to a better rebuilt 517 transmission but it is still really junk. If I had a 6HP26/28 I would probably be happy, less weight, one more gear, better shifts, etc... but that is a route that really only a large effort could overcome due to the electronics involved so I'm going the manual 6 speed route.

They come blank too it seems, if only someone could flash a C5 file into one... :(


http://www.furitech.com.au/index.php/mechatronics-unit-change-over-in-zf-6hp26-transmission/

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/5Speed1.jpghttp://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/5Speed2.jpghttp://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/5Speed3.jpg

[s8prtotype]

ohhh the cheap replacement potential...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-2009-AUDI-A8-QUATTRO-AWD-4-2L-AUTOMATIC-TRANSMISSION-6HP26A-61-WARRANTY-77K-/301371944439?hash=item462b2aedf7&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-2006-AUDI-A8-L-QUATTRO-D3-OEM-AUTO-TRANSMISSION-TIPTRONIC-ZF-6HP26-120K-MI-/321401282313?hash=item4ad5025f09&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Audi-A8L-D3-4-2L-Transmission-6HP26A-122K-HHV-code-/311210939145?hash=item48759e1309&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-AUDI-A8-AWD-4-2-SEDAN-AUTOMATIC-TRANSMISSION-TRANNY-OEM-/121554132957?hash=item1c4d30dfdd&vxp=mtr

[EINHORN]

ohhh the cheap replacement potential...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-2009-AUDI-A8-QUATTRO-AWD-4-2L-AUTOMATIC-TRANSMISSION-6HP26A-61-WARRANTY-77K-/301371944439?hash=item462b2aedf7&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-2006-AUDI-A8-L-QUATTRO-D3-OEM-AUTO-TRANSMISSION-TIPTRONIC-ZF-6HP26-120K-MI-/321401282313?hash=item4ad5025f09&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Audi-A8L-D3-4-2L-Transmission-6HP26A-122K-HHV-code-/311210939145?hash=item48759e1309&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-AUDI-A8-AWD-4-2-SEDAN-AUTOMATIC-TRANSMISSION-TRANNY-OEM-/121554132957?hash=item1c4d30dfdd&vxp=mtr

Most say not compatible

[s8prtotype]

Because they aren't, it's all just a dream all this point.

[orcars6]

Metal particles found in tranny oil. Audi 'stealer'- dealership has given option of complete tranny swap w/ re-built unit from Audi- Germany at considerable cost w/ only 12,000 mile 1 yr. warranty / are these re-built units up-graded/ does anyone have any previous experience w/ a re-built tranny unit direct from Audi???

[lswing]

Warranty is standard. Rebuilt units seem fine. You have a few private companies also. Would be great if you could find a shop you trust, could save thousands.

[Other_Erik]

Metal particles found in tranny oil. Audi 'stealer'- dealership has given option of complete tranny swap w/ re-built unit from Audi- Germany at considerable cost w/ only 12,000 mile 1 yr. warranty / are these re-built units up-graded/ does anyone have any previous experience w/ a re-built tranny unit direct from Audi???

http://www.517trans.com/catalog/11b.php
Call them about upgrades, have an indy shop swap in. Think about changing your Torque converter at the same time.

I can't find contact info for Tozo, but have heard that you get a tip-top unit at a good price.

O_E

[orcars6]

I will check on both- thanks for the info. Erick. Dealer price and scope included TC.

[Other_Erik]

I will check on both- thanks for the info. Erick. Dealer price and scope included TC.

NP. I saw in your other thread what they're quoting you - that's a pretty damn good deal coming from AoA, less than they'd charge here to change EGT sensors. You're probably looking at the same cost give or take going with 517 to do both Trans and TC, and you'd have to find an indy shop who would cut you a pretty good price on labor. Not sure about Tozo - whether they even do the TC. Add on top of that that you'd have to freight back the old trans and TC, and you may be looking at better pricing from the dealer (amazing!).

My biggest question for AoA regarding rebuilt trans/TC - "Are you adding any hardened parts / better seals / etc to make sure this doesn't happen again?" - the answer is likely a resounding "No." The good news is that you would definitely have the better seal in the Torque Converter.

Personally, if it came down to my choice, I'd go with what AoA is offering - not knocking Tozo or 517, but it sounds like you've made inroads at your local dealer, and they're cutting you quite the break on labor and parts to get the price down to what they're saying. Plus the warranty they offer (yeah, only a year and 12k miles), will be good at any Audi dealer nationwide. That's the part that'd tip me over the edge. Your mileage may vary (pardon the pun). See if you can work them just a bit to cover part (say, 10% of a 4yr/48k miles) of an aftermarket warranty with Fidelity Platinum, and you've got a winner on your hands.

O_E

[lswing]

NP. I saw in your other thread what they're quoting you - that's a pretty damn good deal coming from AoA, less than they'd charge here to change EGT sensors. You're probably looking at the same cost give or take going with 517 to do both Trans and TC, and you'd have to find an indy shop who would cut you a pretty good price on labor. Not sure about Tozo - whether they even do the TC. Add on top of that that you'd have to freight back the old trans and TC, and you may be looking at better pricing from the dealer (amazing!).

My biggest question for AoA regarding rebuilt trans/TC - "Are you adding any hardened parts / better seals / etc to make sure this doesn't happen again?" - the answer is likely a resounding "No." The good news is that you would definitely have the better seal in the Torque Converter.

Personally, if it came down to my choice, I'd go with what AoA is offering - not knocking Tozo or 517, but it sounds like you've made inroads at your local dealer, and they're cutting you quite the break on labor and parts to get the price down to what they're saying. Plus the warranty they offer (yeah, only a year and 12k miles), will be good at any Audi dealer nationwide. That's the part that'd tip me over the edge. Your mileage may vary (pardon the pun). See if you can work them just a bit to cover part (say, 10% of a 4yr/48k miles) of an aftermarket warranty with Fidelity Platinum, and you've got a winner on your hands.

O_E

This seems good to me too. If they can give you a solid price like that, and a good warranty, just go for it. I don't think you're tuned or need to focus on a higher strength trans; and our trans can only get so strong.

My impression is about half of the original RS6 trans have lasted around 100k, not bad at all really. The main reason for early and common failures was the TC having a bad seal, and then destroying the trans. A new trans and TC from Audi should get you another 100k as long as you are not hammering on it with a high tuned engine.