Timing Belt DIY

[skyegtb]

Hello All - it's been a long time since I last posted on here so thought I would mark my return by sharing a large selection of photos from my recent DIY timing belt change to show people considering the job what is involved. I'm sure this has been covered on here before, but hopefully some of my pictures will help explain the job in more detail. The job itself was very straightforward and with the car in the service position there is plenty of room to do the work. I personally used the proper 'sliding bolts' to put the car in to the service position to begin with, but ended up removing these bolts afterwards to give some extra room for repairing water pump threads and removal / installation of crank and cam seals. For me the job went smoothly apart from the minor setback of 3 of the water pump bolts shearing upon removal which had to be drilled out and re-threaded.
I am not going to add a step by step guide to the job as I would expect you would have a copy of the workshop manual before carrying out this job, but a few tips would be as follows:
If you are struggling to disconnect the upper and lower radiator quick connect hose coupler (like I did) then simply ignore these and disconnect these hoses at the next joint inboard which has a hose clamp.
To get the crank locking tool in position you need to remove the left side steel boost hose. It's a bit fiddly getting this pipe removes, but you do not need to remove the anti-roll bar (the manual says you do) which will save some time.
If (like me) you get one or more water pump bolts shearing, the process I used to remove the remaining part of the bolts was to Dremel the protruding parts of the bolts flat to the block - being careful not to grind the block in any way, then I re-fitted the old water pump and used a sharp centre punch to mark the middle of the damaged bolt ends. I then drilled these out with a 3mm then 5mm cobalt tipped drill bit then re-tapped the holes with a M6X1 tap. For one of the holes I had to use a helicoil, but the basic principle was the same. To do this you need to move the front carrier much further away from the engine to give access for the drill, but it is very easy to do, just use some rope to secure it in place.
To remove the cam and crank seals (highly recommended as access is easy when doing the timing belt and most likely they will all be leaking to some degree) I simply drilled a 3mm hole in the front of each seal then used a self tapper / mole grip / pry-bar to remove the seals. To install the seals I simply used a large socket for the cam seals and tapped them in as far as they could go and for the crank seal I could not find a suitably large socket for the job so had to gently manually tap the seal in flush to the housing with a nylon hammer and screwdriver handle etc. I have removed and fitted dozens of seals over the years using similar techniques and never had a problem in case you think this sounds a little haphazard!
To gain access to the crank seal you need to remove the lower timing 'cog'. The bolt here is a single use stretch bolt and has to be replaced, it is also supertight - I used a 3/4" socket with a 4ft extension bar to remove and install the bolt and would recommend the same to you! The tightening torque for this bolt is 200Nm + 180°
The above points stand out as the things I had to do 'outside of the box' but probably there were others too. The actual setting up of the timing could not be simpler and the cam locking tools work very well. I had the full set of tools which allows the correct setting of tension on the belt, and would advise you to get all of these tools as well. I can add a list of the tools later if anyone is interested. You will also require a 'low torque' torque wrench that works anti-clockwise.
Anyway, here are the pics. I have not added descriptions or comments yet but may do so later. I added a few pics at the end of my cars new wheel and brake colour scheme - previously the wheels were silver and the calipers yellow, bit I decided for a change to black wheels and blue calipers. Any questions just ask!


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010428.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010430.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010431.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010445.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010446.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010455.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010459.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010463.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010464.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010465.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010475.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010476.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010478.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010481.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010482.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010486.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010487.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010491.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010498.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010499.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010507.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010510.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010511.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010513.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010515.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010518.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010520.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010521.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010522.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010523.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010524.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010525.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010527.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010528.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010530.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010531.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010535.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010536.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010538.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010540.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010541.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010543.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010544.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010545.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010546.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010575.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010581.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010589.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010594.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010595.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010597.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010611.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010612.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010643.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010644.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010645.jpg


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/P1010646.jpg

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/CIMG3375.jpg

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/CIMG3370.jpg

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k536/angusmsmith/2003%20Audi%20RS6%20MTM/CIMG3378.jpg

[MaxRS6]

This needs to be moved to the Sticky DIY section. Nice write up and thanks for sharing!

[Turbowned]

Very well done!

Side note: are those Cayenne rear calipers?

[4everRS]

Very well done!

Side note: are those Cayenne rear calipers?
Well done indeed.

And the discs! Tell us about the discs! Different front than rear? Any issues with proportioning?

[skyegtb]

Very well done!

Side note: are those Cayenne rear calipers?

Nope, the front and rear calipers are from Mov'it - 6 piston in the front, 4 piston in the rear and with a separate handbrake caliper at the rear as well.

[skyegtb]

Well done indeed.

And the discs! Tell us about the discs! Different front than rear? Any issues with proportioning?

The discs are AUDI A8 4E 385x36mm solid at the front and Audi S4 4.2 V8 Quattro Front Drilled / grooved 345x32mm at the rear. To me it is a perfect set-up and no issues whatsoever with proportioning etc.
I originally fitted new Mov'it 380x32mm discs at the front but they were not adequate to stop a 2 ton car and warped very quickly - total waste of time and a lot of money (approx £1000)! The rears used to be the Movi't 343x32mm discs - these were great but the cost of replacement (£500 in the UK) made me opt for the cheaper alternative I fitted here. The Movi't discs had aluminium bells so were obviously much lighter than these solis steel discs but I feel very little difference, if any, when driving the car on the road.
For info these front discs cost me £170 for the set and the rears only £130 for the set!

[lswing]

Very nice! I saw this on rs246 and was impressed at the detail.

Erik, sticky this this...

I'm going to grab some of the info and archive it on my site http://www.audirssix.com/index.php

[Other_Erik]

Nominated for inclusion on the DIY/Maintenance sticky. Nice writeup on gotchas and mitigation. Thanks for cross-posting this!

O_E

[RSoverAll]

Awesome, very nice! good job and welcome back.

Quick question, did you use the crank locking pin to keep the engine from rotating while torquing down the lower timing cog?

[skyegtb]

Awesome, very nice! good job and welcome back.

Quick question, did you use the crank locking pin to keep the engine from rotating while torquing down the lower timing cog?

Thanks! Yes, I did with no issues at all.

[skyegtb]

Very nice! I saw this on rs246 and was impressed at the detail.

Erik, sticky this this...

I'm going to grab some of the info and archive it on my site http://www.audirssix.com/index.php


This needs to be moved to the Sticky DIY section. Nice write up and thanks for sharing!
Nominated for inclusion on the DIY/Maintenance sticky. Nice writeup on gotchas and mitigation. Thanks for cross-posting this!

O_E

Thanks Guys.

[Bigglezworth]

I would add a couple things to this thread for additional clarity on those tackling something like this for the first time, or even a second time. Reference to the type of puller used for both the crank sprocket and the cam sprockets would help many. There are some pullers that work better than others and for these two items I've found a two arm puller works the best. I would also suggest clarifying that when removing the cam sprockets for the first time to replace the seals, it's important to not torque them back up on to the ends of camshafts until you first mount the timing belt and release the belt tensioner. It is "easy" to get the sprocket rotated by a half tooth from optimal for each exhaust cam which can affect your timing. I always ensure full tension is provided between the crank sprocket and the drivers side sprocket, then torque down the drivers side first. Then ensure the passenger side sprocket is fully rotated to make the belt taught prior to torquing down the passeger side sprocket. Again, the cam locking bar will keep the cams at the correct position, but the sprockets have NO keyway to align to those cams. They are merely taper fit.

[skyegtb]

Just a little update that to meant to add to this thread previously. The full parts listing for all items I replaced - full timing belt kit, all tensioners, pulleys, bolts, seals etc:

077903137Q Accessory drive belt Qty. 1

077109479D Tensioner dampener Qty. 1

077109485F Tensioner pulley Qty. 1

078109119J Timing belt Qty. 1

077109244E Timing belt roller Qty. 1

077109244C Timing belt roller Qty. 2

077121113D Thermostat Qty. 1

077121004P Water pump Qty. 1

078105229D Crankshaft / vibration damper bolt (big bolt!) Qty. 1

N 10135503 Socket head bolt; M8X52 for small relay rollers Qty. 2

N 10194702 Socket head bolt with; hexagon socket head; M10X58 for big relay roller Qty. 1

N 10205604 Hexagon head bolt (combi); M6X32 for tensioner Qty. 3

N 90637102 Hexagon bolt; M10X1X145X45 for camshaft pulleys Qty. 2

026103085D Shaft oil seal for camshafts Qty. 2

077115147A Shaft oil seal for crankshaft (front) Qty. 1

N 90827702 Oval hexagon socket head bolt; M6X25 for water pump and t-stat housing Qty. 11

078109149 Washer for thrust bearing - cam pulley timing washers Qty. 2

G013A8JM1 G13 coolant 1.5ltrs 50/50 mix with distilled water Qty. 2

[lswing]

I added the parts list to my Maintenance for future reference. Thanks for the detailed info!

http://audirssix.com/index.php/overview/maintenance

[fukinavit]

Thanks! Yes, I did with no issues at all.

im glad this worked for you and im sure I read somewhere to do it that way. However I did not trust that little pin holding the crank while you torque turn the crank bolt. I made a bar to bolt to the end of the crank where the pulley bolts, I think this is a much safer option.

[G2]

Nice write up. Interesting color stain from the coolant. Haven't see that before, unless it was the camera.

It's a bugger when the water pump bolts seize and fail. It's no fun drilling bolts out of your engine block. Not for the feignt of heart or with cheap drill bits. Soaking and hitting the bolts can sometimes help.

From the many Audi's I have done it seems to be directly related to coolant getting into the threads. The bolts then rust. If a gasket is used, getting an aftermarket Victor or Goetze (instead of what's included with most pumps) and using extra sealant does help. I have considered just sealing the pump w/o a gasket to avoid the water logged and stuck material that results. Might do my car and see how it holds up. But need to check a couple things first. A dab of sealant on the threads I think makes for good process to aid in future service w/o calamity. Would not use loc-tite, however.

[G2]

I would add a couple things to this thread for additional clarity on those tackling something like this for the first time, or even a second time. Reference to the type of puller used for both the crank sprocket and the cam sprockets would help many. There are some pullers that work better than others and for these two items I've found a two arm puller works the best. I would also suggest clarifying that when removing the cam sprockets for the first time to replace the seals, it's important to not torque them back up on to the ends of camshafts until you first mount the timing belt and release the belt tensioner. It is "easy" to get the sprocket rotated by a half tooth from optimal for each exhaust cam which can affect your timing. I always ensure full tension is provided between the crank sprocket and the drivers side sprocket, then torque down the drivers side first. Then ensure the passenger side sprocket is fully rotated to make the belt taught prior to torquing down the passeger side sprocket. Again, the cam locking bar will keep the cams at the correct position, but the sprockets have NO keyway to align to those cams. They are merely taper fit.

Well put. And to tack on a little more of the process. There is a required pretensioning of the belt prior to tightening down the cam sprockets. Requires a torque wrench. Want to say it's in the 25-40NM range. And must be done the right number of times. ( Bolts need to be replaced and lubed per spec. Ensure the taper interface is bone dry. I use brake clean to remove all residue, especially important after install new cam seals. )

Otherwise that exact timing we all strive for will be off the mark from the beginning.... My personal thought is this engine is one of the few that could benefit from running slightly retarded cam timing. Which the cam tensioner does transitioning from what I think they refer to as Advanced and Power mode. Or that's what Porsche says. Same net effect; Retarded is Power mode. Of course too far off and cam/crank sync codes will get flagged. Or if it's too drastic then piston and valves....